From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Mon Dec 9 00:34:19 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:25 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction Message-ID: Greetings, >From: TaintedTattoo@aol.com > >loki_lamesang@hotmail.com wrote: > > > Your vision is biased, because you know the consequences of the attac= k. > > Satsu didn't read the end of the fiction. ^_^ > > He couldn't know that Kobai and the others tattooed men were going to= =20 >win > > the fight and capture them anyway. He did what he thought was the bes= t=20 >to > > do. I would have make the same choice, if I had been in the same=20 >situation. > >What has our clan become? We kill, because we can? We kill, because we=20 >don=B4t >have to be diplomatic? We kill, because we perhaps can win a battle? >They went to the shadowlands. They exspected violence from those evil >creatures. What they get was an invitation. The reacted with violence. N= ow >tell me who the evil one is. How can you seriously ask this Hakene? You want *EVIL*?!?! Go check the end of Part II where Kokujin offers Akuai his life, then=20 snatches the offer away as he sacrifices him to a selfish instrument of=20 power. Kokujin is not sacrificing anyone for a greater good here. He is= =20 taking what he wants for his purposes. You show me anywhere in the ficti= on=20 Kokujin has ever acted for good. Ever ;)? Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.=20 http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail From kitsuki.mitsu at wanadoo.fr Mon Dec 9 01:52:17 2002 From: kitsuki.mitsu at wanadoo.fr (Kitsuki Mitsu) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:25 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction References: <10d.1c2af533.2b24f3c2@aol.com> Message-ID: <005601c29f1d$3912b330$532b0b50@OrdiOlivier> I really don?t think it is insane to build an great artifact. Killing without need is insane for me. To attack people that invite you is insane for me. You are arguing like a courtier. But ur purpose frightened me. According the situation, the death of Akuai, to build such an artifact in that way is really insane. But maybe for u higher purpose justified even the worse. I must confess that i don't subscribe to this point of view. I'm quite sure that it's ur case too, but your words frightened me. >Yes, it?s seems he cares only about himself. Because of this he wants to >share his wisdom with his so called cousin. >The four winds, for example. They sacrife people to gain an advantage in >fighting the other winds. At least Kaneka and Naseru do this. For the moment Tsudao and Sezaru are not following the same path. >Why not Hitomi? Kokujin perhaps tries to save the empire, perhaps to save the >entire world and universe in becoming or allready being a god. Who can judge >right now whether he would be better or worse than those we allready have? Kokujin tries to save the empire. Yeah sure! All Rokugan people must accept his taint to be saved. If they don't accept the taint then they are a threat so they must be sentenced to death. I have some difficulties to understand your reasoning. May be u can explain to me the enlightened madness. Kitsuki Mitsu >Hitomi Hakene >Dragon Clan Tattooed Shadowlands Madmen >"Sometimes you must embrace the darkness to ascend in light." >Visit Shrine of the new Moon From appie666 at hotmail.com Mon Dec 9 06:20:15 2002 From: appie666 at hotmail.com (Togashi Masurao) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:26 2003 Subject: [dragon] [Fiction: 1kyod] Embracing the Darkness Message-ID: You honor me with your praising words. Domo arigoto gozaimasu! > > > > > > Nice story. Fairly well written. Keep up the good work :) > > > > Kitsuki Kyn > > Dragon Clan Ghola > > > >I Thought it was one from alderac or something. Great story! > >Mirumoto Jon Togashi Masurao Dragon Clan Prodigy * Crab Clan Honorary Hida Family Member * Scorpion Clan Court Attendant * Crane Clan Comedian * Rice Paper Bushi * Liason to the Clans * Massage Monk * Erudite Educator * Tattooed Samurai * Raving-Lunatic-Madman-Horror of the 'L5R-STORY'-list "The kami are elsewhere Phoenix, deal with me by yourself." "The Phoenix use dangerous magics we cannot match, so we'll have to beat them with weapons they don't have. Common sense for instance." "If I could I would massage Hoshi-sama's feet, but he's got claws. Now, if I were a nail polisher..." "Why didn't the evil Shadowlands skeleton cross the street?" _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From dhanauer at vt.edu Mon Dec 9 00:58:16 2002 From: dhanauer at vt.edu (Donald Hanauer, II) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:27 2003 Subject: [dragon] Ultimate Switch deck? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021209005816.0079eb20@mail.vt.edu> Well, I started revamping my Shiro Mirumoto Enlightenment deck from way back in Dark Allies with the advent of Togashi's Shrine and Shiro Tamori and started to realize as I worked on it that this deck has potential of becoming the switch deck of all time - being able to peform honor, military, or enlightenment. There are some natural weaknesses in all three due to the initial nature of the deck, but let me know what you guys think: USD(A) Dynasty : 41 cards Fate : 46 cards 3 * Gold Mine 3 * Jade Works 3 * Hiruma Dojo 2 * Mystic Dojo 2 * Sanctified Temple 3 * Devout Acolyte Deep Earth Sanctum -Sanctifieds for that honor switch ability. Devout Acolytes to pay for them and their action. Imperial Gift Welcome Home Chrysanthemum Festival -CF is in there to offset Togashi's Shrine's drawback and to hopefully speed the deck up a bit in productivity on the Dynasty deck. Ruins of Otosan-Uchi Togashi's Shrine -Ruins to blow Togashi's Shrine or an annoying region controlled by my opponent should I switch. Doji Reju Exp 2 Hoshi Eisai Exp Togashi Hoshi Exp 2 3 * Tamori Chieko 3 * Tamori Chosai 3 * Hoshi Takeji 3 * Togashi Kansuke 2 * Togashi Nyima 2 * Hitomi Vedau -Vedau for Void (not that this deck has a problem w/ Void), Takeji for Iaijutsu Art and Aid of the Grand Master. Chieko + Dragon Tattoo = Fire. Enough beef for defensive earth and offensive-minded Water All 5 Rings Celestial Sword of the Dragon 2 * Drum of Water (Water) 2 * Armor of Osano-Wo (Earth) 2 * Armor of Sun Tao (Water/Earth) Tsutomu no Shiryo -to avoid Revering and helps with fire by changing duels to honor from chi. 3 * Walking the Way 2 * Torrential Rain (Earth/Air) 3 * Aid of the Grand Master 2 * Double Chi (Fire/Air) 3 * Palm Strike (Earth/Water/Air) -Once I play a ring, I have 8 personalities that can cast PS or Aid and 14 that can cast DC. 2 * Ambush (Water) 2 * Dragon Tattoo (Air/Earth/Water) 2 * Encircled Terrain (Earth/Water) 3 * Enlightenment (so I can pitch Rings for Focus Value if needed) 2 * Flattery (Earth/Void) 2 * Iaijutsu Art (Fire) 2 * Salt the Earth (get rid of Togashi's Shrine or an annoying region) 3 * Take the Initiative (why not, plus it's a force/chi/honor bonus later) 2 * Tsudao's Challenge (Water, but would prefer a better terrain) Honor weaknesses: May not have enough cards to hit honor without buying everyone for full simply because most everyone is 1PH. Will not beat a dedicated honor runner from what I can tell. Vs a Military deck, lack of followers despite possibility of outforcing opponents or stalling the game can result to death by Stand. Military weaknesses: Not as fast as a dedicated military deck. Lots of cards based on getting rings out - good thing for Water and Void, bad for the rest. Chrysanthemum Festival helps honor runners. Lack of followers may hurt against both honor and military decks. Enlightenment weaknesses don't need to be pointed out simply because we already know what they are : it takes to long and it requires your Dynasty and Fate decks to cooperate almost 100 percent of the time. Mirumoto Taikishi Dragon Clan Duelist * Toturi's Army Samurai * Wolf Legion Bounty Hunter #486 From TaintedTattoo at aol.com Mon Dec 9 01:24:35 2002 From: TaintedTattoo at aol.com (TaintedTattoo@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:27 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction Message-ID: <1be.16f7a0c2.2b259123@aol.com> Please don?t understand me wrong. I don?t say that Kokujin isn?t mad. I?m sure he is. But what I say is that Satsu is mad, too. What if he becomes our new leader? Kitsuki Magistrate: "Lord Satsu, you are invited to the imperial Winter Court" Satsu:"They dare to invite me? They will ountnumber me! Attack them, slaughter them all!" It?s not so that I can?t live with a mad leader, but then I would prefer Kokujin. He?s more trained in such things than Satsu :-) Hitomi Hakene Dragon Clan Tattooed Shadowlands Madmen "Sometimes you must embrace the darkness to ascend in light." Visit Shrine of the new Moon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021209/86b46dfe/attachment.html From TaintedTattoo at aol.com Mon Dec 9 01:28:38 2002 From: TaintedTattoo at aol.com (TaintedTattoo@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:27 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction Message-ID: <190.11eda9a3.2b259216@aol.com> bowman_rob@hotmail.com wrote: > Go check the end of Part II where Kokujin offers Akuai his life, then > snatches the offer away as he sacrifices him to a selfish instrument of > power. Kokujin is not sacrificing anyone for a greater good here. He is > taking what he wants for his purposes. You show me anywhere in the fiction > > Kokujin has ever acted for good. Ever ;)? Power isn?t selfish if you are a good leader. It should be allowed for a daimyo to search for personal power. Sacrificing others is the job of a daimyo. He is the one that has to life, that?s all. Take Yokuni for example, how many samurai has he used for his struggle against destiny? Kokujin does the same, just in a more personal way. Hitomi Hakene Dragon Clan Tattooed Shadowlands Madmen "Sometimes you must embrace the darkness to ascend in light." Visit Shrine of the new Moon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021209/cb2633cd/attachment.html From Vortex35 at aol.com Mon Dec 9 01:39:30 2002 From: Vortex35 at aol.com (Vortex35@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:27 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction Message-ID: <126.1c56d34f.2b2594a2@aol.com> In a message dated 12/9/02 1:25:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, TaintedTattoo@aol.com writes: > Kitsuki Magistrate: "Lord Satsu, you are invited to the imperial Winter > Court" > Satsu:"They dare to invite me? They will ountnumber me! Attack them, > slaughter them all!" > > It?s not so that I can?t live with a mad leader, but then I would prefer > Kokujin. He?s more trained in such things than Satsu :-) > You're wrong on this one... Satsu is not mad. He is surrounded by enemies that stand between him and his enemy. It's war, and Satsu is doing what he must to stop us from being destroyed. Satsu good, Kokujin bad. If you see Satsu as mad, then you're on the side of Kokujin, corrupted in your thoughts. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021209/eed516aa/attachment.html From TattooedSamurai at cs.com Mon Dec 9 03:20:44 2002 From: TattooedSamurai at cs.com (TattooedSamurai@cs.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:27 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction Message-ID: <157.18984386.2b25ac5c@cs.com> In a message dated 12/8/2002 11:25:54 PM Mountain Standard Time, TaintedTattoo@aol.com writes: << Please don?t understand me wrong. I don?t say that Kokujin isn?t mad. I?m sure he is. But what I say is that Satsu is mad, too. What if he becomes our new leader? >> *******ummmmm?!?!?! Do you think before you write? I am not Trying to flame you but i mean really, think about what your saying. I understand what your attempting to do/say but i think this time your really cant play the "devils advocate". he is the worst thing to ever happen inside the dragon clan twice. the dragons (all of them) know who he is, what he has done, and what they can expect from him. And truthfully if i was satsu and i walked into the shadow lands and one of hitmoi's pride comes out and annouces that he now follows kokujin, and then i see all these little beasties in our stance..... lets put it this way. lets say that daigotsu comes to hoshi and says hey let me help you kill shadowlands pepople, then he walks down to the shadowlands and says to shahai hey surrender and we wont kill you.....[LOL] you think shahai would? lets be realistic there was no truce. read between the lines. what kokujin offered was die quite or die fighting. satsu does have i bit of divinity and can not act out of the best for his clan. Hitomi Kenryoku Dragon Clan Hitoden * Samurai * Tattooed * Double Chi * Tactician DR++++ S++ G++ Y+ M+ H+ E(3) O+ EJ+ SJ+ I+ C+++ E+ U- - T- D+ K - H++ TK- !IC U+++ From SLcpUnK420002 at aol.com Mon Dec 9 03:23:32 2002 From: SLcpUnK420002 at aol.com (SLcpUnK420002@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:27 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction Message-ID: In a message dated 12/9/2002 12:29:46 AM Central America Standard Ti, TaintedTattoo@aol.com writes: > Power isn?t selfish if you are a good leader. It should be allowed for a > daimyo to search for personal power. Sacrificing others is the job of a > daimyo. He is the one that has to life, that?s all. Take Yokuni for > example, how many samurai has he used for his struggle against destiny? > Kokujin does the same, just in a more personal way. > > Hitomi Hakene > Dragon Clan Tattooed Shadowlands Madmen > "Sometimes you must embrace the darkness to ascend in light." > but yokuni did good in his stuggle for destiny. what did kokujin do that saved the world? Mirumoto Jon Dragon Clan Samurai*Tattooed Madman*Crab Clan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021209/e7410bbe/attachment.html From TattooedSamurai at cs.com Mon Dec 9 03:27:25 2002 From: TattooedSamurai at cs.com (TattooedSamurai@cs.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:27 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction Message-ID: <24.31470480.2b25aded@cs.com> In a message dated 12/9/2002 1:24:41 AM Mountain Standard Time, SLcpUnK420002@aol.com writes: << > Hitomi Hakene > Dragon Clan Tattooed Shadowlands Madmen >> *******To the rest of the Dragon Clan. it is all in his title, he needs to perform three cuts. I believe that his taint has taken over. I would be honnored to be his second! >:) Hitomi Kenryoku Dragon Clan Hitoden * Samurai * Tattooed * Double Chi * Tactician DR++++ S++ G++ Y+ M+ H+ E(3) O+ EJ+ SJ+ I+ C+++ E+ U- - T- D+ K - H++ TK- !IC U+++ From qamar53 at hotmail.com Mon Dec 9 09:08:58 2002 From: qamar53 at hotmail.com (Scott Thomas) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:27 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction Message-ID: Corrupted in your thoughts? LOL. More deck discussion. Less story. The story is what it is, because peop= le=20 are beating you. TSH >From: Vortex35@aol.com >Reply-To: dragon@michonline.com >To: dragon@michonline.com >Subject: Re: [dragon] New Fiction >Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 01:39:30 EST > >In a message dated 12/9/02 1:25:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, >TaintedTattoo@aol.com writes: > > > Kitsuki Magistrate: "Lord Satsu, you are invited to the imperial Wint= er > > Court" > > Satsu:"They dare to invite me? They will ountnumber me! Attack them, > > slaughter them all!" > > > > It=B4s not so that I can=B4t live with a mad leader, but then I would= prefer > > Kokujin. He=B4s more trained in such things than Satsu :-) > > > >You're wrong on this one... Satsu is not mad. He is surrounded by enemi= es >that stand between him and his enemy. It's war, and Satsu is doing what= he >must to stop us from being destroyed. Satsu good, Kokujin bad. If you = see >Satsu as mad, then you're on the side of Kokujin, corrupted in your=20 >thoughts. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.=20 http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail From box at metrocast.net Mon Dec 9 04:36:36 2002 From: box at metrocast.net (Mister Stuff) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:27 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Monday, December 9, 2002, at 01:08 AM, Scott Thomas wrote: > More deck discussion. Less story. The story is what it is, because > people are beating you. Tachiyama is a coaster. Discuss. > TSH -T Togashi Ashido Dragon Clan Monk * Tattooed * Experienced The Wandering Monk * Unique From puck at holycow.com Mon Dec 9 08:30:59 2002 From: puck at holycow.com (Joe Fulgham) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:27 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000f01c29fa0$5d1c8890$6401a8c0@puck> > Corrupted in your thoughts? > > LOL. > > More deck discussion. Less story. The story is what it is, > because people are beating you. Except that in this case you're wrong. Dragon beat Shadowlands. Shadowlands just happened to pull off some wacky stuff (story stuff, btw) before losing. In other words, the loser of the match is getting to influence what happens more than the winner (so far). Even if that weren't true, different people play L5R for different reasons. Some of us play because we love the storyline rather than simply playing for the win. I realize you disagree with that concept, but please at least respect other peoples' opinions, especially when *nobody* in this discussion is complaining that they can't win -- it's "storyline argument" vs. "storyline argument" and you're trying to turn it into "who cares, just win" which not even the corrupted people here are saying. Joe Fulgham | Hitomi Pukku | puck@holycow.com Dragon Clan Shugenja * Master of the Web * Dragon in Black * Secret Master of L5R | http://www.holycow.com/l5r/ L5R Code (2.2): DR++ S++ G++ Y+ P:M-H+D-E(5) O- EJ- SJ+ SG+ I++ Sc(86) C++++ E++ M- T-- Sd- D+ K H++ Tk IC++ U++ From TalanosVyr at aol.com Mon Dec 9 13:03:58 2002 From: TalanosVyr at aol.com (TalanosVyr@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:27 2003 Subject: [dragon] Togashi's Shrine and Hiroko Message-ID: <4F599DE9.5B9AFC1F.0CA7FFEB@aol.com> Just a timing question really. When I pitch a card to Togashi's Shrine to get a ring then bow Hiroko to draw a card, when do I draw the card from her ability? Is it before I fetch the ring or after? Thanks, Kitsuki Gonzaga From cachocapu at hotmail.com Mon Dec 9 18:14:22 2002 From: cachocapu at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?B?RGFuaWVsIEzzcGV6IFNlYmFzdGnhbg==?=) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:27 2003 Subject: [dragon] Togashi's Shrine and Hiroko Message-ID: Hello everyone, I think Hiroko draws the card just before catching the Shrine's card because you discard the card and that triggers Hiroko's ability, then you finish the Togashi's Shrine action. I did not search in the rules or something, just said what I think. Mirumoto Ryudo Dragon Clan Madrid-Shiro Samurai PS: I am another DIFFERENT Mirumoto Ryudo. Sorry Ryudo, I didn't see your nick before! It's not a copy. _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en l?nea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.microsoft.com/es From owl_clan_mystic at hotmail.com Mon Dec 9 13:47:16 2002 From: owl_clan_mystic at hotmail.com (Shimaya Naito) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:27 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction Message-ID: A bit of faulty reasoning there, Mr. Hadsall. The Dragon player WON= =20 the challenge match, remember? The fact that he did it with a tainted de= ck=20 may well have helped to give this story such a dark turn, but that just=20 helps prove my point: Just because some people don't care about the story, doesn't make th= e=20 concerns of those who do groundless. The story is a HUGE part of the game's appeal for many=20 players (though not as many as in the past, IMO). You have every right to enjoy the game more for the pure competitiv= e=20 challenge, and be mostly unmoved by the characters and story. Others hav= e=20 just as much right to care very deeply about the character, storyline, an= d=20 the 'in character' discussions regarding such issues as the nature of=20 corruption vs. loyalty to one's clan. - Togashi Gao Shan, Kaze-Do Adept >From: "Scott Thomas" >Reply-To: dragon@michonline.com >To: dragon@michonline.com >Subject: Re: [dragon] New Fiction >Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 09:08:58 +0000 > > >Corrupted in your thoughts? > >LOL. > >More deck discussion. Less story. The story is what it is, because peo= ple=20 >are beating you. > >TSH > > >>From: Vortex35@aol.com >>Reply-To: dragon@michonline.com >>To: dragon@michonline.com >>Subject: Re: [dragon] New Fiction >>Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 01:39:30 EST >> >>In a message dated 12/9/02 1:25:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, >>TaintedTattoo@aol.com writes: >> >> > Kitsuki Magistrate: "Lord Satsu, you are invited to the imperial Win= ter >> > Court" >> > Satsu:"They dare to invite me? They will ountnumber me! Attack them, >> > slaughter them all!" >> > >> > It=B4s not so that I can=B4t live with a mad leader, but then I woul= d=20 >>prefer >> > Kokujin. He=B4s more trained in such things than Satsu :-) >> > >> >>You're wrong on this one... Satsu is not mad. He is surrounded by enem= ies >>that stand between him and his enemy. It's war, and Satsu is doing wha= t=20 >>he >>must to stop us from being destroyed. Satsu good, Kokujin bad. If you= =20 >>see >>Satsu as mad, then you're on the side of Kokujin, corrupted in your=20 >>thoughts. > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.=20 >http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail > > >_______________________________________________ >Dragon mailing list >Dragon@michonline.com >http://michonline.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dragon _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online=20 http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3D3963 From TaintedTattoo at aol.com Mon Dec 9 13:56:47 2002 From: TaintedTattoo at aol.com (TaintedTattoo@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:28 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction Message-ID: <176.12ab1c94.2b26416f@aol.com> Of course both of you are right. It is allowed to discuss whatever is wanted to be discussed. I think we all agree in this. But on the other hand a little more strategy discussion wouldn?t hurt. Today I got my FoOU cards. I build to decks, but they are still untested. Will do this during this week and post my experience. What I can say right now is that I dislike to have so many non unique rares. While it?s not so hard for our clan to get the needed cards, it sucks to get an allmost complete set .-( owl_clan_mystic@hotmail.com wrote: > A bit of faulty reasoning there, Mr. Hadsall. The Dragon player WON > the challenge match, remember? The fact that he did it with a tainted deck > > may well have helped to give this story such a dark turn, but that just > helps prove my point: > > Just because some people don't care about the story, doesn't make the > concerns of those who > do groundless. The story is a HUGE part of the game's appeal for many > players (though not as many > as in the past, IMO). > > You have every right to enjoy the game more for the pure competitive > challenge, and be mostly unmoved by the characters and story. Others have > just as much right to care very deeply about the character, storyline, and > the 'in character' discussions regarding such issues as the nature of > corruption vs. loyalty > to one's clan. > > - Togashi Gao Shan, Kaze-Do Adept > > >From: "Scott Thomas" > >Reply-To: dragon@michonline.com > >To: dragon@michonline.com > >Subject: Re: [dragon] New Fiction > >Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 09:08:58 +0000 > > > > > >Corrupted in your thoughts? > > > >LOL. > > > >More deck discussion. Less story. The story is what it is, because > people > >are beating you. > > > >TSH > Hitomi Hakene Dragon Clan Tattooed Shadowlands Madmen "Sometimes you must embrace the darkness to ascend in light." Visit Shrine of the new Moon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021209/ca9c1cea/attachment.html From Vortex35 at aol.com Mon Dec 9 14:01:36 2002 From: Vortex35 at aol.com (Vortex35@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:28 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction Message-ID: <47.273421be.2b264290@aol.com> In a message dated 12/9/02 1:58:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, TaintedTattoo@aol.com writes: > Of course both of you are right. It is allowed to discuss whatever is wanted > to be discussed. I think we all agree in this. > But on the other hand a little more strategy discussion wouldn?t hurt. > Today I got my FoOU cards. I build to decks, but they are still untested. > Will do this during this week and post my experience. > > What I can say right now is that I dislike to have so many non unique > rares. While it?s not so hard for our clan to get the needed cards, it > sucks to get an allmost complete set .-( I'll get into strategy discussion in the new year, I'm hoping to get 1kyod for christmas, along with at least SOME packs of L5R in general, if not I'll be buying a box of FoOU and work from there. I have 6 months to prepare myself for this year's NJ Kotei, and maybe Gencon if I can swing it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021209/001a8aee/attachment.html From mkd8 at cornell.edu Mon Dec 9 14:09:35 2002 From: mkd8 at cornell.edu (Matt Dalen) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:28 2003 Subject: [dragon] Honorable tattooed attack deck Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021209140620.0778ce48@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> In response to the call for more strategy and less story, I'm posting my latest deck. So far it's been doing very well (although I have yet to match it vs. and major tournament decks). Basically, there's a lot of deck search, a lot of force-from-hand things, and a bunch of followers for stand/yogo protection. It may not attack second turn, and sometimes it loses a province or two before it revs up, but since most of the force comes from your hand, all you need is the drawing engine to start and it kicks into high gear. I find that most of the time I'm relying on movement tricks early game (naga tattoo and suptacs, snake tat if they try for sendhome), with the big force coming in mid-late game. Snake tattoo is fantastic in this deck... I love it when most of my opponent's sendhome is useless. Shiro Tamori Toturi Tsudao Dynasty: 40 cards Doji Reju exp2 Hitomi Kagetora exp Hoshi Eisai exp Hoshi Wayan exp2 Kaelung Togashi Satsu Hitomi Hogai x3 Tamori Chieko x3 Tamori Hiroko x3 Togashi Iroshi x2 (don't knock it... he's a monk, and in this deck, I've actually used his ability. Scan the next five cards in your deck, if none of them are useful, grab the tattoo, use hiroko off the card ditch.) Togashi Kansuke x3 Carpenter Wall Falls Welcome Home Imperial Gift Ki-Rin's Shrine exp Temple of the Dragon Gold Mine x3 Jade Works x3 Mystic Dojo x2 Sanctified Temple x1 (just in case I have to honor run) The Hiruma Dojo x3 Trading Grounds x3 Fate: 45 cards (because of the added deck search, I haven't really had a problem with this.... I've actually reached the bottom of the deck in a few games) Aid of the Grand Master x3 Dragon Tattoo x2 Flee the Darkness x3 Hummingbird Tattoo x2 (I find Wave Tattoo is more useful, because I can use it on people who are bowing for other reasons than attacking... favor, attaching Gaijutsu, casting Kihos, etc) Hurricane Tattoo x2 Mountain Tattoo x3 Naga Tattoo x2 Palm Strike x3 Rallying Cry x3 Snake Tattoo x3 Superior Tactics x3 Wave Tattoo x3 Celestial Sword Gaijutsu no Shiryo Monkey Magistrates x3 Omoidasu x3 Warriors of the Great Climb x1 Basic strategy is get a holding first turn, a guy second turn, attack third turn (hopefully with movement tricks) and get gold, hopefully you'll have the deck search engine going by turn 4 or 5. I absolutely love drawing 6-7 cards per turn. ^_^ Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) Dragon Clan Alchemist ? Shugenja ? Jade Hand Webmaster ? Self-appointed Yu Master "Death! Destruction! KITTENS!!!" - allegedly Mirumoto Junnosuke, right before executing his famed "kitten maneuver" at the massacre of Happy Children Village. http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 From dburke at primogen.com Mon Dec 9 14:43:59 2002 From: dburke at primogen.com (Dan Burke) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:28 2003 Subject: [dragon] Card Question References: <47.273421be.2b264290@aol.com> Message-ID: <002501c29fbb$52649760$1401a8c0@DOMINATRIX> From dburke at primogen.com Mon Dec 9 15:08:08 2002 From: dburke at primogen.com (Dan Burke) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:28 2003 Subject: [dragon] Honorable tattooed attack deck References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021209140620.0778ce48@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <002e01c29fbe$b1bd21c0$1401a8c0@DOMINATRIX> Fascinating! I also play a tatooed military deck but we seem to have gone in completely opposite directions. Let me post my deck up for comparison as I cannot say anything about yours is necessarily wrong, just not how I would go about it :) The way my deck worked before this version also focussed on a lot of movement tricks, but I was finding myself very reliant on Mushin's or other "extra actions" to pump up or move before someone dropped a deadly ground on me. The armor of sun tao (popular around me) more or less made me adopt the 'Tao of Headpunching' after a fashion. I don't rely as heavily on the manipulation but its is VERY nice to have some I'm finding. Iron Mountain Tsudao Dynasty: 41 Cards Kjgkt Togashi Shunsen x3 Mirumoto Rosanjin x3 Tamori Chieko x3 Hitomi Vedau x3 Tamori Shaitung x3 Tohashi Nyima x3 A New Legacy The Price of War Carpenter Wall Falls In Time of War Farmlands x2 Ki-Rin's Shrine xp Sanc Temple x2 Gold Mine x3 Iron Mine x3 Temple of the Dragon Gifts and Favors Jadeworks x3 Master Sculptor x2 Fate: 43 Cards Ring of the Void Celestial Sword of the Dragon Warriors of the Great Climb Heavy Infantry x3 Light Infantry x3 Spearmen x3 Cascading Fire x2 Walking the Way x2 Mountain Tatoo x3 Hummingbird Tatoo x3 Wave Tatoo x3 Stand as Stone x3 A Test of Courage x3 Rallying Cry x3 Refugee's x3 Fist of Earth x3 Superior Tactics x3 I seem to have a much more "Force on the table" approach to it, and use the obnoxious events to screw up peoples gold schemes and honor runs. It really is suprising how well messing with the gold scheme and can completely change the pace of the game in your favor, has me looking into more denial cards, as with our ability to manipulate the fate deck I think a Military/Denial deck could very well be in our future. I also have almost no honor requirements with those personalities though. Depending on how KYoD personalities are treated I may replace Shunsen with Hogai for story tournements. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Dalen" To: Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 2:09 PM Subject: [dragon] Honorable tattooed attack deck > In response to the call for more strategy and less story, I'm posting my > latest deck. So far it's been doing very well (although I have yet to > match it vs. and major tournament decks). Basically, there's a lot of deck > search, a lot of force-from-hand things, and a bunch of followers for > stand/yogo protection. It may not attack second turn, and sometimes it > loses a province or two before it revs up, but since most of the force > comes from your hand, all you need is the drawing engine to start and it > kicks into high gear. I find that most of the time I'm relying on movement > tricks early game (naga tattoo and suptacs, snake tat if they try for > sendhome), with the big force coming in mid-late game. Snake tattoo is > fantastic in this deck... I love it when most of my opponent's sendhome is > useless. > > Shiro Tamori > Toturi Tsudao > > Dynasty: 40 cards > > Doji Reju exp2 > Hitomi Kagetora exp > Hoshi Eisai exp > Hoshi Wayan exp2 > Kaelung > Togashi Satsu > Hitomi Hogai x3 > Tamori Chieko x3 > Tamori Hiroko x3 > Togashi Iroshi x2 (don't knock it... he's a monk, and in this deck, I've > actually used his ability. Scan the next five cards in your deck, if none > of them are useful, grab the tattoo, use hiroko off the card ditch.) > Togashi Kansuke x3 > > Carpenter Wall Falls > Welcome Home > Imperial Gift > > Ki-Rin's Shrine exp > Temple of the Dragon > Gold Mine x3 > Jade Works x3 > Mystic Dojo x2 > Sanctified Temple x1 (just in case I have to honor run) > The Hiruma Dojo x3 > Trading Grounds x3 > > Fate: 45 cards (because of the added deck search, I haven't really had a > problem with this.... I've actually reached the bottom of the deck in a few > games) > > Aid of the Grand Master x3 > Dragon Tattoo x2 > Flee the Darkness x3 > Hummingbird Tattoo x2 (I find Wave Tattoo is more useful, because I can use > it on people who are bowing for other reasons than attacking... favor, > attaching Gaijutsu, casting Kihos, etc) > Hurricane Tattoo x2 > Mountain Tattoo x3 > Naga Tattoo x2 > Palm Strike x3 > Rallying Cry x3 > Snake Tattoo x3 > Superior Tactics x3 > Wave Tattoo x3 > > Celestial Sword > Gaijutsu no Shiryo > > Monkey Magistrates x3 > Omoidasu x3 > Warriors of the Great Climb x1 > > Basic strategy is get a holding first turn, a guy second turn, attack third > turn (hopefully with movement tricks) and get gold, hopefully you'll have > the deck search engine going by turn 4 or 5. I absolutely love drawing 6-7 > cards per turn. ^_^ > > > Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) > Dragon Clan Alchemist . Shugenja . Jade Hand Webmaster . Self-appointed Yu > Master > "Death! Destruction! KITTENS!!!" - allegedly Mirumoto Junnosuke, right > before executing his famed "kitten maneuver" at the massacre of Happy > Children Village. > http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 > > > _______________________________________________ > Dragon mailing list > Dragon@michonline.com > http://michonline.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dragon > From jake2002 at sio.midco.net Mon Dec 9 18:02:21 2002 From: jake2002 at sio.midco.net (Eric Jacobson) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:28 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction References: <1be.16f7a0c2.2b259123@aol.com> Message-ID: <00ed01c29fdf$69c5f6a0$ae92dc18@midco.net> This may be a bit late, but with the stomach flu going around, I hope you'll forgive me... Please don?t understand me wrong. I don?t say that Kokujin isn?t mad. I?m sure he is. But what I say is that Satsu is mad, too. What if he becomes our new leader? Kitsuki Magistrate: "Lord Satsu, you are invited to the imperial Winter Court" Satsu:"They dare to invite me? They will ountnumber me! Attack them, slaughter them all!" There is a difference when dealing with regular Rokugani and known tainted killers. You don't negotiate with terrorists and mass murderers for a reason. Hitomi Jaek Dragon Clan Laughseeker * Shugenja * Monk * Tattooed "You know you're overly analytical when someone says, 'You think too much!' and you ask, 'What does that mean?'" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021209/cedd5562/attachment.html From qamar53 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 10 02:02:21 2002 From: qamar53 at hotmail.com (Scott Thomas) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:28 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction Message-ID: I'm talking about the line "corrupted in your thoughts" - that's ridiculo= us. Look, I really like the story. I think there's some misconception that=20 people who play to win don't like it. I follow the story, read the ficti= on,=20 get into arguments about characters with my friends, talk story over with= =20 Seth Mason who writes for the RPG and lives about 2 minutes from my house= . =20 It's really exciting. However, it's fiction, and I'm not about to come=20 online and tell someone they're corrupted in their thoughts. I could care less who won what and got what out of it, storywise. What w= ill=20 be will be. Props to the guys in the finals though. TSH >From: "Shimaya Naito" >Reply-To: dragon@michonline.com >To: dragon@michonline.com >Subject: Re: [dragon] New Fiction >Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 13:47:16 -0500 > > A bit of faulty reasoning there, Mr. Hadsall. The Dragon player WO= N=20 >the challenge match, remember? The fact that he did it with a tainted d= eck=20 >may well have helped to give this story such a dark turn, but that just=20 >helps prove my point: > > Just because some people don't care about the story, doesn't make t= he=20 >concerns of those who >do groundless. The story is a HUGE part of the game's appeal for many=20 >players (though not as many >as in the past, IMO). > > You have every right to enjoy the game more for the pure competiti= ve=20 >challenge, and be mostly unmoved by the characters and story. Others ha= ve=20 >just as much right to care very deeply about the character, storyline, a= nd=20 >the 'in character' discussions regarding such issues as the nature of=20 >corruption vs. loyalty >to one's clan. > > - Togashi Gao Shan, Kaze-Do Adept > >>From: "Scott Thomas" >>Reply-To: dragon@michonline.com >>To: dragon@michonline.com >>Subject: Re: [dragon] New Fiction >>Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 09:08:58 +0000 >> >> >>Corrupted in your thoughts? >> >>LOL. >> >>More deck discussion. Less story. The story is what it is, because=20 >>people are beating you. >> >>TSH >> >> >>>From: Vortex35@aol.com >>>Reply-To: dragon@michonline.com >>>To: dragon@michonline.com >>>Subject: Re: [dragon] New Fiction >>>Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 01:39:30 EST >>> >>>In a message dated 12/9/02 1:25:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, >>>TaintedTattoo@aol.com writes: >>> >>> > Kitsuki Magistrate: "Lord Satsu, you are invited to the imperial=20 >>>Winter >>> > Court" >>> > Satsu:"They dare to invite me? They will ountnumber me! Attack them= , >>> > slaughter them all!" >>> > >>> > It=B4s not so that I can=B4t live with a mad leader, but then I wou= ld=20 >>>prefer >>> > Kokujin. He=B4s more trained in such things than Satsu :-) >>> > >>> >>>You're wrong on this one... Satsu is not mad. He is surrounded by=20 >>>enemies >>>that stand between him and his enemy. It's war, and Satsu is doing wh= at=20 >>>he >>>must to stop us from being destroyed. Satsu good, Kokujin bad. If yo= u=20 >>>see >>>Satsu as mad, then you're on the side of Kokujin, corrupted in your=20 >>>thoughts. >> >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.=20 >>http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Dragon mailing list >>Dragon@michonline.com >>http://michonline.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dragon > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online=20 >http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3D3963 > > >_______________________________________________ >Dragon mailing list >Dragon@michonline.com >http://michonline.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dragon _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* =20 http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail From colm_mcfadden at yahoo.com Tue Dec 10 08:33:51 2002 From: colm_mcfadden at yahoo.com (Colm McFadden) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:28 2003 Subject: [dragon] Honorable tattooed attack deck References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021209140620.0778ce48@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <002301c2a026$de8fc280$a2c69ed9@colmiuhgfsewon> Matt, It looks like you've missed something out; there are only 41 cards in the fate deck. Also I find it very hard to believe you're drawing 6-7 cards a turn with this deck, seeing as most likely one of the missing cards is probably the RoV. And then you'e missing 3 other cards. Regards, Colm McFadden Mirumoto Taneka - Dragon Clan Samurai - Tattooed Taneka may not refuse a duel. Taneka receives +1F/+1C verses Shadowlands personalities in battles or duels. Open: Bow Taneka to destroy a Dragon Clan personality with the Shadowlands trait. "If embracing the taint is what you call righteous and enlightened, I guess we'll have just have to disagree on that point..." - Mirumoto Taneka ====================================================== Fate: 45 cards (because of the added deck search, I haven't really had a problem with this.... I've actually reached the bottom of the deck in a few games) Aid of the Grand Master x3 Dragon Tattoo x2 Flee the Darkness x3 Hummingbird Tattoo x2 (I find Wave Tattoo is more useful, because I can use it on people who are bowing for other reasons than attacking... favor, attaching Gaijutsu, casting Kihos, etc) Hurricane Tattoo x2 Mountain Tattoo x3 Naga Tattoo x2 Palm Strike x3 Rallying Cry x3 Snake Tattoo x3 Superior Tactics x3 Wave Tattoo x3 Celestial Sword Gaijutsu no Shiryo Monkey Magistrates x3 Omoidasu x3 Warriors of the Great Climb x1 Basic strategy is get a holding first turn, a guy second turn, attack third turn (hopefully with movement tricks) and get gold, hopefully you'll have the deck search engine going by turn 4 or 5. I absolutely love drawing 6-7 cards per turn. ^_^ Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) Dragon Clan Alchemist . Shugenja . Jade Hand Webmaster . Self-appointed Yu Master "Death! Destruction! KITTENS!!!" - allegedly Mirumoto Junnosuke, right before executing his famed "kitten maneuver" at the massacre of Happy Children Village. http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 _______________________________________________ Dragon mailing list Dragon@michonline.com http://michonline.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dragon From ramela at cs.helsinki.fi Tue Dec 10 10:45:25 2002 From: ramela at cs.helsinki.fi (Anssi Ramela) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:28 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction References: <000f01c29fa0$5d1c8890$6401a8c0@puck> Message-ID: <007901c2a028$7c5e8360$6a0da6c1@helia.amk> From: "Joe Fulgham" > > More deck discussion. Less story. The story is what it is, > > because people are beating you. > > Except that in this case you're wrong. Dragon beat Shadowlands. > Shadowlands just happened to pull off some wacky stuff (story stuff, btw) > before losing. I can't speak for Scott, but I never felt that he mean to say that we lost, just that if we would have wanted to get a clean victory our "champion" in the booth should have prevented those wacky story stuff from happening. > In other words, the loser of the match is getting to influence what > happens more than the winner (so far). The loser corrupted our Celestial Sword by feeding Chieko to the Anvil of Despair _before_ he lost, so I'm not suprised that Koujin is running the show at the moment. I'm confident that Satsu gets his time in the spotlight in the third part. (Though I'm sceptical on whether he will sit down on the Steel Throne. Anssi Ramela From SLcpUnK420002 at aol.com Tue Dec 10 04:24:54 2002 From: SLcpUnK420002 at aol.com (SLcpUnK420002@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:28 2003 Subject: [dragon] Need serious Help with deck please respond Message-ID: <122.1ba925a0.2b270ce6@aol.com> This is my deck that i have just built and i think it really sucks so any help would be greatly appreciated.I need to have a dragon deck built(Been playing Crab). Shiro Tamori Toturi Sezaru Dynasty 41 3xGold mine 3xJade works 3xSmall farm 3xHiruma dojo 3xLarge farm Shrine of the sun Temple of the Dragon Kirins shrine Exp Hitomi Kagetora Exp 3xMirumoto Rosanjin 3xMirumoto Zenko 3xTogashi Kansuke 3xTogashi Nyima 3xHitomi Hogai 2xHitomi Vedau 2xFarmlands 1xBlood money (dishonor is strong down here) 1xImperial Gift 1xTime of loyalty Fate 44 3xCharge 3xCrane tattoo 3xDragon tattoo 3xSnake tattoo 3xMountain tattoo 2xEncircled terrain 3xStrength in unity 3xSuperior tactics 3xFrenzy 3xRallying Cry Celestial sword of the dragon 3xHeavy Infantry 3xAshigaru Spearmen 3xSpearmen 3xLight Infantry Ring of void Ring of water Isnt it a trainwreck? Mirumoto Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021210/3638b204/attachment.html From kitsuki_jitsuma at yahoo.fr Tue Dec 10 12:05:43 2002 From: kitsuki_jitsuma at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?q?Bruno=20BALBASTRE?=) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:29 2003 Subject: [dragon] Need serious Help with deck please respond In-Reply-To: <122.1ba925a0.2b270ce6@aol.com> Message-ID: <20021210110543.54077.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com> > This is my deck that i have just built and i think > it really sucks so any > help would be greatly appreciated.I need to have a > dragon deck built(Been > playing Crab). Ok. Let's try... About general strategy, Shiro Tamori is strong to Empty The Hand, so you need to get the ring of void fastly... The best way is shuggie+walking the way. > Shiro Tamori > Toturi Sezaru > Dynasty 41 > 3xGold mine > 3xJade works > 3xSmall farm > 3xHiruma dojo > 3xLarge farm Mysitc dojo is a interesting option if you choose some shuggies... > Shrine of the sun > Temple of the Dragon > Kirins shrine Exp > Hitomi Kagetora Exp For a full military option, his honnor requierment is too hight. > 3xMirumoto Zenko I would place there 3 Shaitung > 3xTogashi Kansuke > 3xTogashi Nyima > 3xMirumoto Rosanjin > 3xHitomi Hogai Ok he's strong, but he is not samoura? so his price may be a little too hight, you could have another shugenja there, you have the choise Cheiko (low cost and tattooed) or Tsukiro (strenght and potions)... > 2xHitomi Vedau Some of our monks are very strong. May be you could think about them... Hoshi Eisai, Hosahi Chuichi, Hoshi Wayan, Kaelung... I do not see Doji Reju xp2 ? > 2xFarmlands > 1xBlood money (dishonor is strong down here) > 1xImperial Gift > 1xTime of loyalty Shogun fealty, Time of war are good events against honnor decks... > Fate 44 Too much cards. You needs to get the ring of void as soon as possible. Your deck seems more designed for Kyuden Hitomi than Shiro Tamori... > 3xCharge I would change this for strenght of purity... With this strong it is an easier cards... > 3xCrane tattoo Forget it you could not use the strong ability on a personnality with this tattoo... > 3xDragon tattoo A dangerous tattoo if you do not have rallying cry in hand... > 3xSnake tattoo > 3xMountain tattoo > 2xEncircled terrain Are you sure ? it is more useful to the defending than the attacking player... > 3xStrength in unity What for ? > 3xSuperior tactics > 3xFrenzy Will not works with strenght of purity and followers... > 3xRallying Cry > Celestial sword of the dragon > 3xHeavy Infantry The cost is too hight... You need to empty the hand so either your cards have a low cost either you will discard it with the stronghold... > 3xAshigaru Spearmen > 3xSpearmen > 3xLight Infantry > Ring of void > Ring of water Do you really believe that you will put it in play ? Whitout Tadao ? You do not fear PK ? Monkey magistrate is interesting against it... and combo with strenght of purity... Some kiho boost could be interesting... Chaising of osano-wo, aid of the fortune, flee the darkness, gift of the water dragon and use them with spider tattoo... > Isnt it a trainwreck? My english is reaching limit on this word... I hope I help a little. > Mirumoto Jon Kitsuki Jitsuma > ___________________________________________________________ Soyez solidaire soutenez l?action du T?l?thon avec Yahoo! France. http://www1.telethon.fr/030-Espace-Relais-Dons/webtirelire1.asp?hebergeur_id=1309 From togashilove at hotmail.com Tue Dec 10 14:30:12 2002 From: togashilove at hotmail.com (John Panagiotakis) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:29 2003 Subject: [dragon] Honorable tattooed attack deck Message-ID: Greetings, Matt Dalen wrote: > >Shiro Tamori >Toturi Tsudao > >Dynasty: 40 cards > >Doji Reju exp2 >Hitomi Kagetora exp >Hoshi Eisai exp >Hoshi Wayan exp2 >Kaelung >Togashi Satsu >Hitomi Hogai x3 >Tamori Chieko x3 >Tamori Hiroko x3 >Togashi Iroshi x2 Togashi Kansuke x3 Hmmm, after checking the whole decklist, I've noticed that you play 7 followers and no Farmlands. Don't people in your area play Stand? Mine is infested with that pesky card. Also, Satsu? What is he doing here? 8\ >Carpenter Wall Falls >Welcome Home >Imperial Gift > >Ki-Rin's Shrine exp Do you find it usefull? Why not a 2nd Sanctified? >Temple of the Dragon >Gold Mine x3 >Jade Works x3 >Mystic Dojo x2 >Sanctified Temple x1 (just in case I have to honor run) >The Hiruma Dojo x3 >Trading Grounds x3 Have you tried 3xMD and 2xJW?? (instead of 2xMD and 3xJW) Hiroko will be able to come out more easily. >Fate: 45 cards Missing 4 cards!! 8p!! My choice would be: RoV and 3xPurity of Spirit (or Strengh of Purity, Gift of the Water Dragon) >Aid of the Grand Master x3 >Dragon Tattoo x2 >Flee the Darkness x3 8> Nice! >Hummingbird Tattoo x2 Hurricane Tattoo x2 >Mountain Tattoo x3 >Naga Tattoo x2 >Palm Strike x3 >Rallying Cry x3 >Snake Tattoo x3 >Superior Tactics x3 >Wave Tattoo x3 > >Celestial Sword >Gaijutsu no Shiryo > >Monkey Magistrates x3 >Omoidasu x3 >Warriors of the Great Climb x1 > >Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) Nice deck and ideas overall (about Iroshi & lots of tattoos). I'll try it, though I'll pitch the Hummingbirds for more followers and Satsu & 1 Hogie for 2 Farmlands. Stand is still a trend in my area...8( ___Togashi Agozatsu___ *Dragon Clan Samurai*Monk*Tattooed* Acolyte_of_Maths*Storyteller*exp* *Will only join the Dragon or Scorpion clan* "Each path that is true is dangerous. If there is no one to bar your way, no challenge to overcome, then you know that the choice is honorless." -Hitomi ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From togashilove at hotmail.com Tue Dec 10 14:36:23 2002 From: togashilove at hotmail.com (John Panagiotakis) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:29 2003 Subject: [Dragon] Odd Deck Message-ID: Greetings, Togashi Naruta wrote: > >Here's an odd deck that breaks some of the rules of deck size. And yes, >this deck does win games. [snip] Gosh! Naruta-san, this is indeed a huge deck! Could you provide us with it's oveall strategy? >Togashi Shunsen was very useful in the deck. He let me burn out the >useless defensive actions when facing no-attack decks. Hmmm, I still wouldn't use him because of his black pyjama trait. But that is just me! 8p >More comments later........If people want to know. > >Togashi Naruta We will be waiting for them. Thanks for the deck. ___Togashi Agozatsu___ *Dragon Clan Samurai*Monk*Tattooed* Acolyte_of_Maths*Storyteller*exp* *Will only join the Dragon or Scorpion clan* "Each path that is true is dangerous. If there is no one to bar your way, no challenge to overcome, then you know that the choice is honorless." -Hitomi ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From mkd8 at cornell.edu Tue Dec 10 09:19:48 2002 From: mkd8 at cornell.edu (Matt Dalen) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:29 2003 Subject: [dragon] Honorable tattooed attack deck In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021210091333.00ca54a0@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> >Hmmm, after checking the whole decklist, I've noticed that you play 7 >followers and no Farmlands. Don't people in your area play Stand? Mine is >infested with that pesky card. Also, Satsu? What is he doing here? 8\ This deck is only on gempukku for the moment, because there are only two other players in my area, and the other two don't play much. As for stand, I find I'm not usually attacking with my entire army, I'm attacking with 1, maybe 2 really pumped up personalities. 7 followers is more than enough to handle that. As for Satsu, he's there to cast kihos, and that's it. I may end up replacing him with Chuichi, now that I think about it... >>Carpenter Wall Falls >>Welcome Home >>Imperial Gift >> >>Ki-Rin's Shrine exp > >Do you find it usefull? Why not a 2nd Sanctified? I've actually found it very useful. I don't really want to run honor unless I have to, and Sancts have a horrible cost to gold ratio. Plus, I like force. I've had KRS be the difference between taking a province and not, so it has come in handy. >>Temple of the Dragon >>Gold Mine x3 >>Jade Works x3 >>Mystic Dojo x2 >>Sanctified Temple x1 (just in case I have to honor run) >>The Hiruma Dojo x3 >>Trading Grounds x3 > >Have you tried 3xMD and 2xJW?? (instead of 2xMD and 3xJW) Hiroko will be >able to come out more easily. The only person that MD helps with is Hiroko, and she'll come off of 2 Jade Works just as easily as 2 Mystic Dojos. Plus, the Jade Works can pay for all of the other 8 gold people in the deck. >>Fate: 45 cards > >Missing 4 cards!! 8p!! > >My choice would be: RoV and 3xPurity of Spirit (or Strengh of Purity, Gift >of the Water Dragon) That was actually supposed to be RoV and 3x Walking the Way, by my count. Sorry about that ^_^. >___Togashi Agozatsu___ Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) Dragon Clan Alchemist ? Shugenja ? Jade Hand Webmaster ? Self-appointed Yu Master "Fear the jade flames of my potions, Dark Oracle. You will die for your betrayal!" http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 From mkd8 at cornell.edu Tue Dec 10 09:29:28 2002 From: mkd8 at cornell.edu (Matt Dalen) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:29 2003 Subject: [dragon] Honorable tattooed attack deck In-Reply-To: <002301c2a026$de8fc280$a2c69ed9@colmiuhgfsewon> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021209140620.0778ce48@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021210092000.00cadb08@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> At 08:33 AM 12/10/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Matt, > >It looks like you've missed something out; there are only 41 cards in the >fate deck. as I said, the missing cards are Ring of the Void and 3x Walking the Way. >Also I find it very hard to believe you're drawing 6-7 cards a turn with >this deck, seeing as most likely one of the missing cards is probably the >RoV. And then you'e missing 3 other cards. Once I get the card draw engine going (read: get the ring of the void): If you have Togashi Iroshi out, use him -> 1 draw Respond to this with however many Hirokos you have out -> 1-3 draws If you have Walking the Way, use it -> 1 draw Play a tattoo; if you have Temple of the Dragon, use it -> 1 draw Play or discard all of the rest of the cards in your hand -> 5 draws during your end phase. Respond with Hiroko to the discards for pumping, if you didn't use her on Iroshi There are at least 6 dynasty cards and 3 fate cards that result in additional card draws. The odds are, I'm going to have at least one of the dynasty-side drawing cards by the time I get out the ring of the void. That makes 6+ cards per turn. (Ignoring one-time-use stuff, it's 5 for the ring of the void, 3 for the hirokos, 2 for the iroshis, and 1 for the temple of the dragon, making a maximum 11 cards per turn. This will never actually happen, of course, but you can get to 6-7 cards per turn.) >Regards, >Colm McFadden >Mirumoto Taneka - Dragon Clan Samurai - Tattooed Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) Dragon Clan Alchemist ? Shugenja ? Jade Hand Webmaster ? Self-appointed Yu Master "Death! Destruction! KITTENS!!!" - allegedly Mirumoto Junnosuke, right before executing his famed "kitten maneuver" at the massacre of Happy Children Village. http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 From ilan.muskat at mail.mcgill.ca Tue Dec 10 10:37:27 2002 From: ilan.muskat at mail.mcgill.ca (Ilan Muskat) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:29 2003 Subject: [dragon] Story Effect: Why Satsu got captured Message-ID: <001101c2a062$0d7b0380$6401a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Hey guys, remember how Matsu Domotai got captured by the Tsuno 'cause he can't defend? I'm betting Satsu got captured by Kokujin 'cause he can't attack. :) .... [I'm kidding. But I think Kagetora (in-game) is a cooler personality by a long shot. Satsu can guide the Togashi order all he wants, but Kagetora is actually a mortal, and I really think that the balance between Togashi and Hitomi is what this cool, cool clan should be about. Maybe the Mirumoto should lead the clan but no *way* Uso is cooler than Kag or Satsu... sorry, here's my two cents. *plink, plink*] Matsu Kinra (Ilan Muskat) Lion Clan Niten Samurai * Negotiator * Dragon Clan Student "There is always another way." From SLcpUnK420002 at aol.com Tue Dec 10 12:02:33 2002 From: SLcpUnK420002 at aol.com (SLcpUnK420002@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:29 2003 Subject: [dragon] Need serious Help with deck please respond Message-ID: <161.1849dac4.2b277829@aol.com> Thanks for the help it was needed. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021210/acb798c6/attachment.html From dburke at primogen.com Tue Dec 10 12:34:39 2002 From: dburke at primogen.com (Dan Burke) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:29 2003 Subject: [dragon] Kjggt is my new favorite personality References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021209140620.0778ce48@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> <002e01c29fbe$b1bd21c0$1401a8c0@DOMINATRIX> Message-ID: <003b01c2a072$6b4587f0$1401a8c0@DOMINATRIX> if only because he is so silly. Kjggt "hmmm, fate is strong with me as there are many mines! Ah-Ha! I sense a tatoo, Shunsen, fetch!" (begins digging a ditch for the heavy infantry that just went to the bottom of the deck) Shunsen "RAR! Looks GOOD on you!" Temple of the Dragon "Om mane padme hum...here is your lagniappe" Mysterious are the ways of the dragon. Tamori Rokoma From cdredman2 at comcast.net Tue Dec 10 12:32:26 2002 From: cdredman2 at comcast.net (Almont) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:29 2003 Subject: [dragon] Denial Strategy (re:Dan Burke) Message-ID: After 1KYoD I put together a denial deck and have been tweaking it since. The only downside is that it needs the fate deck to be your friend early on in the game, but I have had relatively good success with it. I would actually add a few more cards to it, but alas I do not have full playsets of certain Gold rares yet. Dragon Denial Kyuden Hitomi (OoF, 2xWtW, CSotD, WoTGC)(I'm still trying to find the optimal cards) Toturi Sezaru Dynasty : 45 3x Gold Mine 3x Jade Works 3x Jade Vein 3x Mystic Dojo 3x Hiruma Dojo 3x Kabuki Theater T. (must-have honor holding) 1x Gold Smith (1x is the only economical way to run these) 1x Gifts & Favors 1x Shrine of Stone (peeps bow alot in this deck) 1x Ki Rin's Shrine Exp 3x Crossroads (free up gold for Fate) 1x In Time of War 1x Alliance (ninja) 1x Hurricane (holding denial) 3x Ninja Spy (combo with AP, WoC) 3x Shosuro Yudoka 3x Togashi Shunsen 3x Tamori Shaitung 3x Hitomi Hogai 1x Kaelung (flavor and force) 1x Tamori Shaitung Exp (she combos great w/ ToD) Fate : 40 1x Oath of Fealty (mid-late game for Sword and force) 2x Superior Tactics 3x Rallying Cry 3x Dragon Tattoo 3x Aramoro's Promise 2x Ninja Thief (opponent's Sword or other annoying item) 2x Kolat Master 3x Kolat Assassin 3x Geisha Assassin 1x Touch of Death 3x Walking the Way 3x Fist of Osano-Wo 3x Winds of Change 3x Energy Transference (cheap PK for annoying 0F Peeps, or military support if none show up) 1x Celestial Sword of the Dragon 3x Hoshi's Claw 1x Warriors of the Great Climb (with just D.Tats this one could be removed for a tourney-worthy rare) OK, so the Dynasty is a little heavy, but it needs the gold to pay for all the fate deck. Eventually this deck has to go military to finish off the opponent, so there are a few support cards for that. Kyuden Hitomi leaves only 29 cards left in your fate deck after the 1st turn, so there are great chances of pulling what you need from it. I built this Deck before FoOU so I haven't thought about ST strategy for this yet. Keep in mind that this is not a tourney worthy deck. To make it so would require 2x more ToD, 1x KM, and probably 3x Fall on Your Knees to stop the reactions that have become prevalent in BB and FoOU against what this deck is designed to do. The Dynasty deck would also need to be trimmed down by roughly 3 cards. Togashi Hirocho Tattooed Inkyo From colm_mcfadden at yahoo.com Tue Dec 10 19:48:38 2002 From: colm_mcfadden at yahoo.com (Colm McFadden) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:29 2003 Subject: [dragon] Denial Strategy (re:Dan Burke) References: Message-ID: <002401c2a085$221dfb80$a2c69ed9@colmiuhgfsewon> > OK, so the Dynasty is a little heavy, but it needs the gold to pay for all > the fate deck. > Eventually this deck has to go military to finish off the > opponent, so there are a few support cards for that. Kyuden Hitomi leaves > only 29 cards left in your fate deck after the 1st turn, so there are great > chances of pulling what you need from it. I built this Deck before FoOU so > I haven't thought about ST strategy for this yet. > Keep in mind that this is not a tourney worthy deck. To make it so would > require 2x more ToD, 1x KM, and probably 3x Fall on Your Knees to stop the > reactions that have become prevalent in BB and FoOU against what this deck > is designed to do. The Dynasty deck would also need to be trimmed down by > roughly 3 cards. There's a new holding in FOU called Kaeru Contractors that you might want to consider. It's a bog standard 2 for 2, but to provides 3 for an action card. Kind of a mini House of Contracts... Just my 2 pence. Regards, Colm McFadden Mirumoto Taneka - Dragon Clan Samurai - Tattooed Taneka may not refuse a duel. Taneka receives +1F/+1C versus Shadowlands personalities in battles or duels. Open: Bow Taneka to destroy a Dragon Clan personality with the Shadowlands trait. "If embracing the taint is what you call righteous and enlightened, I guess we'll have just have to disagree on that point..." - Mirumoto Taneka From SLcpUnK420002 at aol.com Tue Dec 10 15:20:59 2002 From: SLcpUnK420002 at aol.com (SLcpUnK420002@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:29 2003 Subject: [dragon] Need serious Help with deck please respond Message-ID: <186.12859481.2b27a6ab@aol.com> In a message dated 12/10/2002 5:07:20 AM Central America Standard Ti, kitsuki_jitsuma@yahoo.fr writes: > > > > > This is my deck that i have just built and i think > > it really sucks so any > > help would be greatly appreciated.I need to have a > > dragon deck built(Been > > playing Crab). > > Ok. Let's try... > About general strategy, Shiro Tamori is strong to > Empty The Hand, so you need to get the ring of void > fastly... The best way is shuggie+walking the way. > > > Shiro Tamori > > Toturi Sezaru > > Dynasty 41 > > 3xGold mine > > 3xJade works > > 3xSmall farm > > 3xHiruma dojo > > 3xKaeru contractor > > > > Shrine of the sun > > Temple of the Dragon > > Kirins shrine Exp > > Kaelung > > *snip* > > > 3xTamori shaitung > > > > 3xTogashi Kansuke > > 3xTogashi Nyima > > 3xMirumoto Rosanjin > > > 3xTamori Tsukiro *snip* > > 2xHitomi Vedau > *Snip* > I do not see Doji Reju xp2 ? > (dont have him) > > 2xFarmlands > > 1xBlood money (dishonor is strong down here) > > 1xImperial Gift > > 1xThe shoguns Fealty > > Shogun fealty, Time of war are good events against > honnor decks... > > > Too much cards. You needs to get the ring of void as > soon as possible. Your deck seems more designed for > Kyuden Hitomi than Shiro Tamori... > > Fate 40 > > > 2xHurricane Tattoo > > > 3xDragon tattoo > A dangerous tattoo if you do not have rallying cry in > hand... > > > 3xSnake tattoo > > 3xMountain tattoo > > > 2xStrength of my ancestors > > > > > > 3xSuperior tactics > > 3xStrength of purity > > > 3xRallying Cry > > Celestial sword of the dragon > > 3xMonkey Magistrates > > 3xAshigaru Spearmen > > 3xSpearmen > > 3xLight Infantry > > Ring of void > 3xwalking the way > > You do not fear PK ? Monkey magistrate is interesting > against it... and combo with strenght of purity... > > Some kiho boost could be interesting... > Chaising of osano-wo, aid of the fortune, flee the > darkness, gift of the water dragon and use them with > spider tattoo... > > > Isnt it a trainwreck? > My english is reaching limit on this word... > I hope I help a little. > > > Mirumoto Jon > Kitsuki Jitsuma > > Mirumoto Jon I changed it on the original post since i did not want to type it up again. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021210/62bbeff3/attachment.html From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Tue Dec 10 23:37:03 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:29 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction Message-ID: Greetings, >From: TaintedTattoo@aol.com > >bowman_rob@hotmail.com wrote: > > > > Go check the end of Part II where Kokujin offers Akuai his life, then > > snatches the offer away as he sacrifices him to a selfish instrument = of > > power. Kokujin is not sacrificing anyone for a greater good here. H= e=20 >is > > taking what he wants for his purposes. You show me anywhere in the=20 >fiction > > > > Kokujin has ever acted for good. Ever ;)? > >Power isn=B4t selfish if you are a good leader. It should be allowed for= a >daimyo to search for personal power. Sacrificing others is the job of a >daimyo. He is the one that has to life, that=B4s all. Take Yokuni for=20 >example, >how many samurai has he used for his struggle against destiny? >Kokujin does the same, just in a more personal way. Excuse me. You started this thread correct? You wanted to point out how= =20 "Evil" Satsu was for attacking Kobai. Now let's skip the whole point abo= ut=20 how warped your perspective is that you see a problem with anyone attacki= ng=20 known sworn enemies of Rokugan at any time under any circumstances and ju= st=20 get to the point of this email, okay ;)? Please do not try and change the subject. I am not asking to debate the=20 morals of leaders here okay. And for the record, the simple fact you coul= d=20 even make the suggestion that the "sacrifices" of Kokujin vs the Sacrific= es=20 of Yokuni are anything similar tells me a lot about your perspective. Ye= ah=20 let's see Kokujin scarifices a POW to further increase the power of his=20 little personal tool. Wow, what a big sacrifice on his part ;). Yokuni *asks* his loyal follers to lay down their life for the good of th= e=20 Empire, as in Mirumoto Satsu. Note he *asked*, and if you think that is=20 horrible, understand a good leader never asks his men/women to do anythin= g=20 he would not do. Which is exactly what he did come DoT, He sacrificed hi= s=20 life to give all of us a chance to continue little debates like this, and= =20 allow you the freedom to choose :). I am curious, what would Kokujin sacrifice his life for.... ??????? No, sorry to get sidetracked, the original point was how I am pointing ou= t=20 how evil Kokujin is with a specific example (and please refer to some of = the=20 other great posts listing many more of Kokujin evil acts). I am also ask= ing=20 when Kokujin has ever acted "good"? Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*=20 http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail From gaidin71 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 10 23:49:25 2002 From: gaidin71 at hotmail.com (Michael Iakovides) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:30 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: I have kept silent so far in this arguement, due to a distinctive lack of= =20 time to respond. Now however, I have found sometime to write so here goes= : The main arguement of the tainted players in this list, is that they use = the=20 taint to help their Clan, and make a hard choice in doing so. First of al= l=20 let us be done with this fallacy once and for all: Rokugan D20 RPG p.137: The Shadowlands Taint: The mystical condition known to the Empire as the Shadowlands Taint is on= e=20 of the deadliest threats Rokugan has ever faced. It is a physical and=20 spiritual affliction that slowly and inexorably corrupts every aspect of = the=20 victim's life. The Taint is nothing less than the influence of the dar= k=20 lord Fu Leng. Just as his power has turned a once verdant land into th= e=20 foul and twisted Shadowlands, so too can his will subvert and destroy eve= n=20 the most powerful samurai if they do not take the necessary precautions. ... Acquiring the taint(same page): ... Fu Leng's power and influence extend to all things inside those dark=20 lands, warping them to suit his foul purposes. Human beings are not=20 different, and quickly succumb to his power without protection. Fortunes and Winds D20 RPG supplement,p.33(after explaining that Taint is= =20 the Control mechanics for Jigoku-for more details read the supplement): GMs should keep in mind that Jigoku is an intelligent cunning source for=20 evil. Though many of its servants are mindless and stupid, the Taint itse= lf=20 is not. A Tainted character who loses control will not necessarily kill=20 everything in sight if such an act would deprive Jigoku of a useful pawn.= The=20 Taint is more likely to cause the character to perform acts that would=20 alienate him from friends,family and clan. Ring a bell? There. It is written in black and white plain as day. You want to debate = it,=20 take it up with the storytelling team. The mechanics are quite clear. You= do=20 not control the manifestation of taint in you. It is intelligent, and ser= ves=20 the Dark Lord. Therefore, when a Dragon, one of the Clan that is most hat= ed=20 by Fu Leng due to our obedience of Togashi, the kami that thwarted his=20 domination of Rokugan and the Celestial Heavens, succumbs to the Taint, h= e=20 does not get to pick cute and cuddly powers that help his Clan. He gets=20 powers that help the Dark Lord's cause. The second part of the ridiculous storyline arguements that are used by t= he=20 Shadowlands followers of Kokujin (who after their recent positions after = the=20 fiction, can no longer be called Dragon players, since they have definite= ly=20 lost the benefit of the doubt) is that there have been cases that people=20 control the spread of the taint. Oni no Okura, Akodo Godaigo and other su= ch=20 notables being examples. What these gentlemen forget to state, is that in= an=20 Empire of millions of people (when the samurai armies of the Lion are=20 500.000, without the ashigaru, the math dictates that we are talking abou= t=20 tens of millions of people inhabiting the Empire), the cases that this ha= s=20 happened can be counted with one hand. Therefore, it is not a logical=20 arguement that people can control the taint, because these were=20 extraordinary individuals, and for every one of them, there are tens of=20 thousands of historical cases in Rokugan, that foolishly tried to control= =20 the taint, and succumbed to Fu Leng. The third part of the amusing inconsistency that is the tao of the 'Taint= ed=20 Dragon player'(who from now on shall be refered to in my dictionary as=20 Shadowland Follower of Kokujin, or Tainted follower of Taki in my case) i= s=20 their support of the tattoed madman. The last few comments in the list ha= ve=20 been quite , for lack of better word, ludicrous. First of all people shou= ld=20 decide whether they consider Kokujin an outside agent serving himself, a=20 Tainted Dragon that wishes to help the Clan or something else. Pick one a= nd=20 stick to it. The assertion that Kokujin is a Tainted Dragon that wishes t= o=20 help the Dragon means de facto that the person that is talking on the oth= er=20 end is not taking the storyline arguement seriously, and merely wants to=20 persuade others that he actually has a stroryline reason for playing Tain= ted=20 Dragon other than the Beavis and Butthead type of arguement that Kokujin = is=20 cool. People that want to serve their Clan: a) Obey their superiors b) Do not attack their Clanmates c) Do not sacrifice their Clanmates d) Do not advise Daigotsu e) Are not deranged As to the assumption that Kokujin is in control of his taint, this is als= o=20 ridiculous, as can be seen from the RPG supplements quoted above. True, h= e=20 has been able to control its spread due to the possesion of Togashi's=20 Daisho, but the explanation is a very simple one on his 'control' of his=20 existing taint: WHEN SOMEONE IS A WILLING SERVANT OF EVIL BY HIS OWN HAND= ,=20 ONE DOES NOT NEED HIS HAND TWISTED. The Taint merely helps Kokujin carry = out=20 his evil plots, since they fall in nicely with the plans of Fu Leng for t= he=20 Empire. Now let us see some of the hilarious/ridiculous comments, that have surfa= ced=20 on the list: >Please don=B4t understand me wrong. I don=B4t say that Kokujin isn=B4t m= ad. I=B4m >sure he is. >But what I say is that Satsu is mad, too. What if he becomes our new=20 >leader? Satsu is mad. Why is that exactly? >Kitsuki Magistrate: "Lord Satsu, you are invited to the imperial Winter >Court" >Satsu:"They dare to invite me? They will ountnumber me! Attack them, >slaughter them all!" Tell you what. Kokujin is invited by the Jade Magistrate to a tea party.=20 When you tell me that Kokujin attends since it is an invitation, we will=20 discuss this most logical of arguements you have. >It=B4s not so that I can=B4t live with a mad leader, but then I would pr= efer >Kokujin. He=B4s more trained in such things than Satsu :-) >Power isn=B4t selfish if you are a good leader. It should be allowed for= >a=20 >daimyo to search for personal power. Sacrificing others is the job >of a= =20 >daimyo. He is the one that has to life, that=B4s all. Take Yokuni >for=20 >example, how many samurai has he used for his struggle against >destiny? >Kokujin does the same, just in a more personal way. In a more personal way.hm. so let me get this straight. The sacrifice of=20 Togashi, who spent his whole life not in the glory of the Heavens but in=20 unending toil against Fu Leng, is the equivalent of a mad powerhungry=20 traitor who is looking for personal power.I see your point. And last time= I=20 checked, Kokujin was not a Daimyo, but a Shadowlands advisor of Daigotsu.= =20 Therefore, you are right, the heavy burden of a Daimyo is to sacrifice th= e=20 lives of his samurai, in order to benefit his Clan. What has that got to = do=20 with Kokujin?NOTHING. >They first wanted to meet Kokujin where he had asked them, and fight=20 > >him.Kokujin sent Kobai and the bakemonos instead of coming personally.= =20 > >They now had to find him. But there's a big difference between finding= =20 > >Kokujin in his realm by themselves, or with the help of "companions" >= who=20 >can backstab them at any time. >No, they were just camping somewhere. A)you forget that Satsu bursts in full of wounds telling the rest he know= s=20 where Kokujin is. I suppose these were given to him by ferocious rabbits = or=20 something. B)I know there is an obscure ise zumi punchline in your joke, but I fail = to=20 see it. Let me guess: they were roastin marshmallows and singing boyscout= =20 songs in the wildrness... >Chained? From where do you get this? >I believe that Kobai wouldn't have hold his promise and attacked the=20 > >party,just like you believe he would. >Is there any reason why Kokujin, who seems right now to be absolut=20 > >superior , should chain them? Jee I don't know. Maybe so he could put them on the Anvil of Despair and=20 forge them into weapons maybe? OR maybe because it is hard to trust someo= ne=20 who left the Dragon swearing he would bring Togashi's Daisho back, or die= =20 trying, and tehn turns up as a follower of Kokujin? >What has our clan become? We kill, because we can? We kill, because we=20 > >don=B4t have to be diplomatic? We kill, because we perhaps can win a=20 >?>battle?They went to the shadowlands. They exspected violence from >tho= se=20 >evil creatures. What they get was an invitation. The reacted >with=20 >violence. Now tell me who the evil one is The evil one is the guy with the Shadowlands taint, the forcefully conver= ted=20 Kobai, the guy that sacrifices one of his oldest acquaintances on the Anv= il=20 of Despair, who is an advisor to Daigotsu. By your reasoning, Tsudao is e= vil=20 because she hacked of poor Daigotsu's hand when he had stated he would no= t=20 interfere against her from then on. And btw, we kill because taint serves= Fu=20 Leng, and our Clan has always been the first line of defence against Tain= t,=20 just as the Crab have been the first line of defence against the Shadowla= nds=20 on the wall. >Surrender? Is it called surrender if you follow a greeting comitee and >= you=20 >don=B4t slaugther them? They wanted to go to Kokujin. Kokujin called >th= em.=20 >What a suprise that he was prepared. Like I said. The Jade Champion wants to invite Kokujin to a tea party. Wi= th=20 a welcoming comitee and everything.He too will be prepared... >I really don=B4t think it is insane to build an great artifact. Killing=20 > >without need is insane for me. To attack people that invite you is=20 > >insane for me. So you see nothing wrong with killing your brother or your sister, so you= =20 can build a weapon for your personal use. I see. And you are of course us= ing=20 the taint here to help your Clan. How obvious. I am surprised all these=20 people cannot see it. I will tell you what. If all the Dragon players in=20 this list invite Kokujin to the Shrine of the Moon, on a pilgrimage(or th= e=20 Shrine of the Sun, if you prefer the Dragon Lands), you will obviously=20 come.And you will obviously not attack the Mirumoto warriors that surroun= d=20 you and him, or the Tamori shugenja, or the Kitsuki magistrates, or the=20 kikage and ise zumi... The lines have been drawn clear as day: you play tainted you ally with th= e=20 Shadowlands. You no longer serve your Clan. And guess what Tainted Dragon= =20 players?you serve Kokujin or Taki, you serve the Shadowlands. You are in=20 effect Shadowlands players, playing off the Dragon box. You butcher your=20 former Clan mates, and do what is necessary for the glory of the Dark Kam= i. If people want to play tainted Dragon fine.It is their choice. But if the= y=20 want to argue about the storyline validity of their choices, pleaz try an= d=20 come up with something that remotely makes sense.The Kokujin tea party=20 invaded by yobs scenario is just too ludicrous for contemplation.... As for me, I have been tainted, and serve the Dark Kami now, just Kokujin= =20 does, just like Taki, and just like everyone else with Taint. And though = I=20 may glory in killing the Phoenix scum, I cannot say I do it for my Clan... Mirumoto Izo Tainted Tattoed Samurai _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.=20 http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/virus From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Wed Dec 11 00:21:05 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:30 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: Greetings, wow. Uhm, I am stunned at the depth you went to, domo arigato... . A few quick commets- 1) This is what I always ask for. Solid evidence from canon material backing claims. For the general rules of how the Taint works, any arguements? 2) Actually on Kokujin, some of the older d10 stuff does portray him more as a Free Agent than pawn. Still the overall rules for Taint still apply, and in all the thousands years with all the tens/hundreds of thousand/millions of other people, that still leaves us with less than 10 peeps who have not sucumbed to the Taint. That also leaves all those claiming to be Dark Dragon on something other than a life time subsciption to "The Dragon Daily" ;p!! 3) Lastly I forgot to mention it, but I too agree that the lines have been draw as I continue to see every tainted peep on Kokujin's side. I would bet, *and it is just my opinion, nothing official here*, Kobai is the storyline team's acknowledgement of Hakene's desires and victory. Notice he is not on our side :(. >From: "Michael Iakovides" Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From owl_clan_mystic at hotmail.com Wed Dec 11 12:30:09 2002 From: owl_clan_mystic at hotmail.com (Shimaya Naito) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:30 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: (IC, obviously): Thank you, Izo-san! May you find a way to die honora= bly=20 before the taint tampers with your mind to the extent that you come to believe the lies of= =20 those 'Dragon' who follow Kokujin, Taki, Tamori, or any other agent of the one true enemy. *Bows* - Togashi Gao Shan, Kaze-Do Adept >From: "Michael Iakovides" >Reply-To: dragon@michonline.com >To: dragon@michonline.com >Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin >Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 23:49:25 +0000 > >I have kept silent so far in this arguement, due to a distinctive lack o= f=20 >time to respond. Now however, I have found sometime to write so here goe= s: > >The main arguement of the tainted players in this list, is that they use= =20 >the taint to help their Clan, and make a hard choice in doing so. First = of=20 >all let us be done with this fallacy once and for all: >Rokugan D20 RPG p.137: >The Shadowlands Taint: >The mystical condition known to the Empire as the Shadowlands Taint is o= ne=20 >of the deadliest threats Rokugan has ever faced. It is a physical and=20 >spiritual affliction that slowly and inexorably corrupts every aspect of= =20 >the victim's life. The Taint is nothing less than the influence of th= e=20 >dark lord Fu Leng. Just as his power has turned a once verdant land i= nto=20 >the foul and twisted Shadowlands, so too can his will subvert and destro= y=20 >even the most powerful samurai if they do not take the necessary=20 >precautions. > >... >Acquiring the taint(same page): >... Fu Leng's power and influence extend to all things inside those dark= =20 >lands, warping them to suit his foul purposes. Human beings are not=20 >different, and quickly succumb to his power without protection. > >Fortunes and Winds D20 RPG supplement,p.33(after explaining that Taint i= s=20 >the Control mechanics for Jigoku-for more details read the supplement): >GMs should keep in mind that Jigoku is an intelligent cunning source for= =20 >evil. Though many of its servants are mindless and stupid, the Taint its= elf=20 >is not. A Tainted character who loses control will not necessarily kill=20 >everything in sight if such an act would deprive Jigoku of a useful=20 >pawn.The Taint is more likely to cause the character to perform acts tha= t=20 >would alienate him from friends,family and clan. > >Ring a bell? >There. It is written in black and white plain as day. You want to debate= =20 >it, take it up with the storytelling team. The mechanics are quite clear= .=20 >You do not control the manifestation of taint in you. It is intelligent,= =20 >and serves the Dark Lord. Therefore, when a Dragon, one of the Clan that= is=20 >most hated by Fu Leng due to our obedience of Togashi, the kami that=20 >thwarted his domination of Rokugan and the Celestial Heavens, succumbs t= o=20 >the Taint, he does not get to pick cute and cuddly powers that help his=20 >Clan. He gets powers that help the Dark Lord's cause. > >The second part of the ridiculous storyline arguements that are used by = the=20 >Shadowlands followers of Kokujin (who after their recent positions after= =20 >the fiction, can no longer be called Dragon players, since they have=20 >definitely lost the benefit of the doubt) is that there have been cases=20 >that people control the spread of the taint. Oni no Okura, Akodo Godaigo= =20 >and other such notables being examples. What these gentlemen forget to=20 >state, is that in an Empire of millions of people (when the samurai armi= es=20 >of the Lion are 500.000, without the ashigaru, the math dictates that we= =20 >are talking about tens of millions of people inhabiting the Empire), the= =20 >cases that this has happened can be counted with one hand. Therefore, it= is=20 >not a logical arguement that people can control the taint, because these= =20 >were extraordinary individuals, and for every one of them, there are ten= s=20 >of thousands of historical cases in Rokugan, that foolishly tried to=20 >control the taint, and succumbed to Fu Leng. > >The third part of the amusing inconsistency that is the tao of the 'Tain= ted=20 >Dragon player'(who from now on shall be refered to in my dictionary as=20 >Shadowland Follower of Kokujin, or Tainted follower of Taki in my case) = is=20 >their support of the tattoed madman. The last few comments in the list h= ave=20 >been quite , for lack of better word, ludicrous. First of all people sho= uld=20 >decide whether they consider Kokujin an outside agent serving himself, a= =20 >Tainted Dragon that wishes to help the Clan or something else. Pick one = and=20 >stick to it. The assertion that Kokujin is a Tainted Dragon that wishes = to=20 >help the Dragon means de facto that the person that is talking on the ot= her=20 >end is not taking the storyline arguement seriously, and merely wants to= =20 >persuade others that he actually has a stroryline reason for playing=20 >Tainted Dragon other than the Beavis and Butthead type of arguement that= =20 >Kokujin is cool. People that want to serve their Clan: >a) Obey their superiors >b) Do not attack their Clanmates >c) Do not sacrifice their Clanmates >d) Do not advise Daigotsu >e) Are not deranged >As to the assumption that Kokujin is in control of his taint, this is al= so=20 >ridiculous, as can be seen from the RPG supplements quoted above. True, = he=20 >has been able to control its spread due to the possesion of Togashi's=20 >Daisho, but the explanation is a very simple one on his 'control' of his= =20 >existing taint: WHEN SOMEONE IS A WILLING SERVANT OF EVIL BY HIS OWN HAN= D,=20 >ONE DOES NOT NEED HIS HAND TWISTED. The Taint merely helps Kokujin carry= =20 >out his evil plots, since they fall in nicely with the plans of Fu Leng = for=20 >the Empire. > >Now let us see some of the hilarious/ridiculous comments, that have=20 >surfaced on the list: > > >>Please don=B4t understand me wrong. I don=B4t say that Kokujin isn=B4t = mad. I=B4m >>sure he is. >>But what I say is that Satsu is mad, too. What if he becomes our new=20 >>leader? >Satsu is mad. Why is that exactly? > >>Kitsuki Magistrate: "Lord Satsu, you are invited to the imperial Winter >>Court" >>Satsu:"They dare to invite me? They will ountnumber me! Attack them, >>slaughter them all!" >Tell you what. Kokujin is invited by the Jade Magistrate to a tea party.= =20 >When you tell me that Kokujin attends since it is an invitation, we will= =20 >discuss this most logical of arguements you have. > >>It=B4s not so that I can=B4t live with a mad leader, but then I would p= refer >>Kokujin. He=B4s more trained in such things than Satsu :-) >>Power isn=B4t selfish if you are a good leader. It should be allowed fo= r >a=20 >>daimyo to search for personal power. Sacrificing others is the job >of = a=20 >>daimyo. He is the one that has to life, that=B4s all. Take Yokuni >for=20 >>example, how many samurai has he used for his struggle against >destiny= ? >>Kokujin does the same, just in a more personal way. >In a more personal way.hm. so let me get this straight. The sacrifice of= =20 >Togashi, who spent his whole life not in the glory of the Heavens but in= =20 >unending toil against Fu Leng, is the equivalent of a mad powerhungry=20 >traitor who is looking for personal power.I see your point. And last tim= e I=20 >checked, Kokujin was not a Daimyo, but a Shadowlands advisor of Daigotsu= .=20 >Therefore, you are right, the heavy burden of a Daimyo is to sacrifice t= he=20 >lives of his samurai, in order to benefit his Clan. What has that got to= do=20 >with Kokujin?NOTHING. > >>They first wanted to meet Kokujin where he had asked them, and fight=20 >> >him.Kokujin sent Kobai and the bakemonos instead of coming personally= .=20 >> >They now had to find him. But there's a big difference between findin= g=20 >> >Kokujin in his realm by themselves, or with the help of "companions"=20 >> >who can backstab them at any time. >>No, they were just camping somewhere. >A)you forget that Satsu bursts in full of wounds telling the rest he kno= ws=20 >where Kokujin is. I suppose these were given to him by ferocious rabbits= or=20 >something. >B)I know there is an obscure ise zumi punchline in your joke, but I fail= to=20 >see it. Let me guess: they were roastin marshmallows and singing boyscou= t=20 >songs in the wildrness... > >>Chained? From where do you get this? >>I believe that Kobai wouldn't have hold his promise and attacked the=20 >> >party,just like you believe he would. >>Is there any reason why Kokujin, who seems right now to be absolut=20 >> >superior , should chain them? >Jee I don't know. Maybe so he could put them on the Anvil of Despair and= =20 >forge them into weapons maybe? OR maybe because it is hard to trust some= one=20 >who left the Dragon swearing he would bring Togashi's Daisho back, or di= e=20 >trying, and tehn turns up as a follower of Kokujin? > > >>What has our clan become? We kill, because we can? We kill, because we=20 >> >don=B4t have to be diplomatic? We kill, because we perhaps can win a=20 >>?>battle?They went to the shadowlands. They exspected violence from >th= ose=20 >>evil creatures. What they get was an invitation. The reacted >with=20 >>violence. Now tell me who the evil one is >The evil one is the guy with the Shadowlands taint, the forcefully=20 >converted Kobai, the guy that sacrifices one of his oldest acquaintances= on=20 >the Anvil of Despair, who is an advisor to Daigotsu. By your reasoning,=20 >Tsudao is evil because she hacked of poor Daigotsu's hand when he had=20 >stated he would not interfere against her from then on. And btw, we kill= =20 >because taint serves Fu Leng, and our Clan has always been the first lin= e=20 >of defence against Taint, just as the Crab have been the first line of=20 >defence against the Shadowlands on the wall. > >>Surrender? Is it called surrender if you follow a greeting comitee and=20 >> >you don=B4t slaugther them? They wanted to go to Kokujin. Kokujin cal= led=20 >> >them. What a suprise that he was prepared. >Like I said. The Jade Champion wants to invite Kokujin to a tea party. W= ith=20 >a welcoming comitee and everything.He too will be prepared... > >>I really don=B4t think it is insane to build an great artifact. Killing= =20 >> >without need is insane for me. To attack people that invite you is=20 >> >insane for me. >So you see nothing wrong with killing your brother or your sister, so yo= u=20 >can build a weapon for your personal use. I see. And you are of course=20 >using the taint here to help your Clan. How obvious. I am surprised all=20 >these people cannot see it. I will tell you what. If all the Dragon play= ers=20 >in this list invite Kokujin to the Shrine of the Moon, on a pilgrimage(o= r=20 >the Shrine of the Sun, if you prefer the Dragon Lands), you will obvious= ly=20 >come.And you will obviously not attack the Mirumoto warriors that surrou= nd=20 >you and him, or the Tamori shugenja, or the Kitsuki magistrates, or the=20 >kikage and ise zumi... > >The lines have been drawn clear as day: you play tainted you ally with t= he=20 >Shadowlands. You no longer serve your Clan. And guess what Tainted Drago= n=20 >players?you serve Kokujin or Taki, you serve the Shadowlands. You are in= =20 >effect Shadowlands players, playing off the Dragon box. You butcher your= =20 >former Clan mates, and do what is necessary for the glory of the Dark Ka= mi. > >If people want to play tainted Dragon fine.It is their choice. But if th= ey=20 >want to argue about the storyline validity of their choices, pleaz try a= nd=20 >come up with something that remotely makes sense.The Kokujin tea party=20 >invaded by yobs scenario is just too ludicrous for contemplation.... > >As for me, I have been tainted, and serve the Dark Kami now, just Kokuji= n=20 >does, just like Taki, and just like everyone else with Taint. And though= I=20 >may glory in killing the Phoenix scum, I cannot say I do it for my Clan.= .. > >Mirumoto Izo >Tainted Tattoed Samurai > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.=20 >http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/virus > > >_______________________________________________ >Dragon mailing list >Dragon@michonline.com >http://michonline.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dragon _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*=20 http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail From amburke6 at eircom.net Wed Dec 11 17:54:40 2002 From: amburke6 at eircom.net (Ann Burke) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:30 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin References: Message-ID: <00a301c2a13e$61abd290$1c00000a@parents> > 1) This is what I always ask for. Solid evidence from canon material > backing claims. For the general rules of how the Taint works, any > arguements? > Couple of minor points, one can be "tainted" with some points of the Shadowlands taint through no fault of ones own and can take steps to minimise its effects (see tea of jade petals) A person with this level of taint will have to battle the taint but are by no means Jigoku's servant. When you start using your powers activly even with the noblest intentions you start a downward spiral for yourself. When you lose the battle to the taint you become Lost, and a willing pawn of Jigoku. > 2) Actually on Kokujin, some of the older d10 stuff does portray him more as > a Free Agent than pawn. Still the overall rules for Taint still apply, and > in all the thousands years with all the tens/hundreds of thousand/millions > of other people, that still leaves us with less than 10 peeps who have not > sucumbed to the Taint. That also leaves all those claiming to be Dark > Dragon on something other than a life time subsciption to "The Dragon Daily" > ;p!! > Kokujin has acess to a Monk kiho that allows him to cleanse himself to avoid becoming Lost, he's not a direct minion of Jigoku, that however doesnt mean he's not a deragned mad killer with an insaitable curiosity and a lust for power. He's not a nice guy, but you dont need to be tainted for that to happen, look at Doji Satsume. Kokujin aint evil becuase he's shadowlands he's evil becuase he's Kokujin. Also ultimately you do not need to succumb to the taint, there are ways to stave it off and/or cleanse yourself they just require lots of work and NOT embracing your SL powers. just some flavour from a Crab. Hida Eoin Crab Clan Koshi From togashi_akagi at hotmail.com Wed Dec 11 19:39:11 2002 From: togashi_akagi at hotmail.com (akagi togashi) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:30 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: I haven't posted much on this, in part because I'm such awe of the fiction I'm still near speachless :) Rich you THE man. You have a sick and twisted witt to your writing that I love beyond words. (Not just this piece but in your others as well) I love the portrayl of the dragon on boths sides, corrupt and not. I cannot express in words how cool the fight scene between Kaleung and Mitsu is. It's right from all the kung fu movies I watched growing up, almost brought a tear to my eye. My only hope is that mitsu will somehow make it to diamond so we can see more of this stuff, and fics with Matsuo. Several points in the fics that I wanted to address. First in regards to the invitation. There was no expectation on either side that this would be upheld on behalf of kokujin. The words might be seen as an honorable invitation to a peaceful tea party, but it's clear to everyone that only violence will occur. This "invitation" occurs in nearly every piece of fiction and repeatedly in real world history. It is a move simply to fulfill the ego, by issuing a demand of surrender and peace one attempts to show their "benevolance", ultimately knowing that such an offer will be refused and only violence will will occur. You could call it "ettiquette", but both parties know it's true message. This is much in the manner that Vader offers for Luke to join the darkside, he knows full well he will never comply and that they will fight before he even issues the offer. It is a way of insuring the ego's superiority complex, if they accept then you were in the right all along, if they refuse and are defeated they deserve the death that "they" chose to bring upon themself, thus transferring the blame to the opponent. On the topic of taint and clan allegiances, I don't think it'll ever be settled, since ultimately it's a matter of personal opinion. But here is my view on how it's portrayed in the fiction. Kokunin and Kobai refers to the other dragons as their brothers, the dragon while they loathe the dark ise zumi cannot deny their clans ties to them. They would not call them brothers had they the choice. The dragon are quick to condemn the methods adopted by the dark ise zumi, meaning murder and cruelty. However they also reconize that they are in a very loose sense a part of the dragon, despite their hatred towards them. The Tattoos are only that of the dragon, making all ise zumi bound by blood. Despite his "madness" kokujin ultimately seeks enlightenment, which is the true calling of the dragon clan. So while his actions may bring harm to the clan, in a twisted sense he still still seeks to embrace the essence of which the clan was founded on, finding enlightenment. This is reflected by Mitsu, the other ise zumi are quick to find and destroy Kokujin, yet Mitsu refuses. His question "Is there truly any truth?" should have a profound impact on how we read this story, yet so far it's being completely overlooked by everyone here on the list. As togashi sat under the tree wasting away he nearly died trying to see the world *exactly* as Shinsei saw it. Had Shinsei not arrived he would have perished seeking to find the understanding that Shisei held. Shinsei's words were the greatest lesson to Togashi and became the spirit of the clan, you can only forge and understand your own path by considering the world from all points of view, not just one, because no one view in itself is truly correct. Mitsu sees great tragedy in much of the clan's recent history, but it was as Togashi guided it to be, including Kokujin. Mitsu is a kind soul and values life, but in knowing the deepest wisdom of the clan he knows he cannot judge or condem the path of others, because it is not his place. He wishes to kill Kokujin so that others need not suffer at his hand, yet for kokujin perhaps it is truly the path he need walk to reach enlightenment. He is discouraged by his conflict of spirit, but it shows the immense wisdom he has attained, and that he truly understands Shinsei's lesson that only the individual can understand their path. If Kokujin truly follows a path of enlightenment how can someone that also seeks the enlightend path deny them? If they have the same dragon heart (but drastically differant methods) how can he presume to challenge his peer and condemn an ise zumi brother for not following any path other than his own? Every bit the ideal dragon, Hitomi forged her own path to enlightement, and much blood was spilled on the way. It caused much pain to Mitsu's heart, since his personal path is much peaceful. He questions if there is any truth at all, because he feels that the fate and the path is cruel, he wishes that others could find enlightenment through peace. He is greatly burdened by his inner thoughts, and incredibly remorseful. But understanding what it means to be a dragon, he cannot seek change what fate others walk. This is why I was so impressed by the fiction. Mitsu was *the* personality that brought me into the game, and seeing the complexity behind his thoughts was astounding. As a true dragon he has much conflict over the event, rather than being the chest beating purity wagon that the other dragons convey. He struggles internally with great burden to allow everyone to contiune their own unique path, even if it means watching horrible acts occur against his personal wishes. all in all, I can only say *wow* about the fiction. As much as I'm dying to see the next part, I don't want to see this piece end since it's so sweet. Akagi - bearer of the gaki tattoo _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From ben at strangecompany.org Wed Dec 11 01:10:33 2002 From: ben at strangecompany.org (Ben Moss) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:30 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin References: Message-ID: <008c01c2a0b2$47bd8220$f839fea9@spaniel> From: "Rob Bowman" > 1) This is what I always ask for. Solid evidence from canon material > backing claims. For the general rules of how the Taint works, any > arguements? As I don't have the books to hand I'll just go with the quotes given: "Rokugan D20 RPG p.137: The Shadowlands Taint: The Taint is nothing less than the influence of the dark lord Fu Leng. Just as his power has turned a once verdant land into the foul and twisted Shadowlands, so too can his will subvert and destroy even the most powerful samurai if they do not take the necessary precautions." The last line of that is very important. "Acquiring the taint(same page): ... Fu Leng's power and influence extend to all things inside those dark lands, warping them to suit his foul purposes. Human beings are not different, and quickly succumb to his power without protection." Once again we return to the without protection theme. It is not clear cut. If the samurai in question is properly prepared then they may be able to control it. Please notice I say may rather than that they can as I agree that many have tried and failed. > 2) Actually on Kokujin, some of the older d10 stuff does portray him more as > a Free Agent than pawn. Still the overall rules for Taint still apply, and > in all the thousands years with all the tens/hundreds of thousand/millions > of other people, that still leaves us with less than 10 peeps who have not > sucumbed to the Taint. That also leaves all those claiming to be Dark > Dragon on something other than a life time subsciption to "The Dragon Daily" > ;p!! Now if we go on the premise that Kokujin was prepared (see rules and old d10 stuff) and has retained control then we should be considering whether or not our brethren that tread Kokujin's path are infected with the Taint (aka Fu Leng/Jigoku) or with.....errr... Kokujin (In the way that Hitomi's power was passed on to those she tattooed, etc). At this point the question of whether or not any of his followers are strong enough to resist the Taint becomes irrelevant as they do not have it. So all it took was Kokujin himself to be strong enough. Personally I think Kokujin is very much out for himself (though I'm still worried by Togashi laughing at the end of his meeting with Kokujin, the only other reference to him laughing being a conversation with Shoju over what secrets he was letting the scorpion know). There is very much more to Kokujin than a simple pawn to the Taint, all be it a very powerful one. Doesn't mean that I'm going to follow him though. Final point (from Michael's post) on what good servants of a clan do: a) Obey their superiors - We don't know what else Togashi told him. b) Do not attack their Clanmates - See our allies the Scorpion (who is to say which faction is right?) c) Do not sacrifice their Clanmates - See above d) Do not advise Daigotsu - Depends what advice he gave him :) e) Are not deranged - Vedau :) Hitomi Touken From SLcpUnK420002 at aol.com Tue Dec 10 22:01:13 2002 From: SLcpUnK420002 at aol.com (SLcpUnK420002@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:30 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: <16c.1855062b.2b280479@aol.com> In a message dated 12/10/2002 5:51:31 PM Central America Standard Ti, gaidin71@hotmail.com writes: > Tainted follower of Taki Who is taki? is it Mirumoto taki fallen to the taint?Damn that makes me wonder. Mirumoto jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021210/a96d8ece/attachment.html From TattooedSamurai at cs.com Wed Dec 11 02:17:58 2002 From: TattooedSamurai at cs.com (TattooedSamurai@cs.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:30 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: <17c.13487541.2b2840a6@cs.com> In a message dated 12/10/2002 5:23:01 PM Mountain Standard Time, bowman_rob@hotmail.com writes: << 3) Lastly I forgot to mention it, but I too agree that the lines have been draw as I continue to see every tainted peep on Kokujin's side. I would bet, *and it is just my opinion, nothing official here*, Kobai is the storyline team's acknowledgement of Hakene's desires and victory. Notice he is not on our side :(. >> ******Who is hakene ? From box at metrocast.net Wed Dec 11 03:49:30 2002 From: box at metrocast.net (Mister Stuff) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:30 2003 Subject: [dragon] Dragon desktop Message-ID: <9BDEE458-0CFE-11D7-B3F7-003065E72BF2@metrocast.net> Greetings. DISCLAIMER: I didn't do the art for Chuichi. I intend no insult whatsoever to the artist for my comments upon the Tachiyama part of the art. I'm not selling this; IT IS NOT MINE. That aside, point your browser to http://www.thekeeponline.com/tb/Chuichi1600x1200.jpg to check out MY version of the new L5R desktop (as seen in its original format at http://l5r.alderac.com/resources/). Because, well, Tachiyama looks bad. Sorry. :( My version is only in 1600x1200 (although I'm sure you're smart enough to make it smaller if you want). It's about a 700K download, and won't be online forever. So, check it out. I hope you like it. If you remember, I took parts of the SotD flyer and made a rather nice Dragon mon desktop (currently available ONLY via private email request to me). I like them both! :) -T Togashi Ashido Dragon Clan Monk * Tattooed * Experienced The Wandering Monk * Unique From togashi_akagi at hotmail.com Wed Dec 11 09:10:29 2002 From: togashi_akagi at hotmail.com (akagi togashi) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:30 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: I haven't posted much on this, in part because I'm such awe of the fiction I'm still near speachless :) Rich you THE man. You have a sick and twisted witt to your writing that I love beyond words. (Not just this piece but in your others as well) I love the portrayl of the dragon on boths sides, corrupt and not. I cannot express in words how cool the fight scene between Kaleung and Mitsu is. It's right from all the kung fu movies I watched growing up, almost brought a tear to my eye. My only hope is that mitsu will somehow make it to diamond so we can see more of this stuff, and fics with Matsuo. Several points in the fics that I wanted to address. First in regards to the invitation. There was no expectation on either side that this would be upheld on behalf of kokujin. The words might be seen as an honorable invitation to a peaceful tea party, but it's clear to everyone that only violence will occur. This "invitation" occurs in nearly every piece of fiction and repeatedly in real world history. It is a move simply to fulfill the ego, by issuing a demand of surrender and peace one attempts to show their "benevolance", ultimately knowing that such an offer will be refused and only violence will will occur. You could call it "ettiquette", but both parties know it's true message. This is much in the manner that Vader offers for Luke to join the darkside, he knows full well he will never comply and that they will fight before he even issues the offer. It is a way of insuring the ego's superiority complex, if they accept then you were in the right all along, if they refuse and are defeated they deserve the death that "they" chose to bring upon themself, thus transferring the blame to the opponent. On the topic of taint and clan allegiances, I don't think it'll ever be settled, since ultimately it's a matter of personal opinion. But here is my view on how it's portrayed in the fiction. Kokunin and Kobai refers to the other dragons as their brothers, the dragon while they loathe the dark ise zumi cannot deny their clans ties to them. They would not call them brothers had they the choice. The dragon are quick to condemn the methods adopted by the dark ise zumi, meaning murder and cruelty. However they also reconize that they are in a very loose sense a part of the dragon, despite their hatred towards them. The Tattoos are only that of the dragon, making all ise zumi bound by blood. Despite his "madness" kokujin ultimately seeks enlightenment, which is the true calling of the dragon clan. So while his actions may bring harm to the clan, in a twisted sense he still still seeks to embrace the essence of which the clan was founded on, finding enlightenment. This is reflected by Mitsu, the other ise zumi are quick to find and destroy Kokujin, yet Mitsu refuses. His question "Is there truly any truth?" should have a profound impact on how we read this story, yet so far it's being completely overlooked by everyone here on the list. As togashi sat under the tree wasting away he nearly died trying to see the world *exactly* as Shinsei saw it. Had Shinsei not arrived he would have perished seeking to find the understanding that Shisei held. Shinsei's words were the greatest lesson to Togashi and became the spirit of the clan, you can only forge and understand your own path by considering the world from all points of view, not just one, because no one view in itself is truly correct. Mitsu sees great tragedy in much of the clan's recent history, but it was as Togashi guided it to be, including Kokujin. Mitsu is a kind soul and values life, but in knowing the deepest wisdom of the clan he knows he cannot judge or condem the path of others, because it is not his place. He wishes to kill Kokujin so that others need not suffer at his hand, yet for kokujin perhaps it is truly the path he need walk to reach enlightenment. He is discouraged by his conflict of spirit, but it shows the immense wisdom he has attained, and that he truly understands Shinsei's lesson that only the individual can understand their path. If Kokujin truly follows a path of enlightenment how can someone that also seeks the enlightend path deny them? If they have the same dragon heart (but drastically differant methods) how can he presume to challenge his peer and condemn an ise zumi brother for not following any path other than his own? Every bit the ideal dragon, Hitomi forged her own path to enlightement, and much blood was spilled on the way. It caused much pain to Mitsu's heart, since his personal path is much peaceful. He questions if there is any truth at all, because he feels that the fate and the path is cruel, he wishes that others could find enlightenment through peace. He is greatly burdened by his inner thoughts, and incredibly remorseful. But understanding what it means to be a dragon, he cannot seek change what fate others walk. This is why I was so impressed by the fiction. Mitsu was *the* personality that brought me into the game, and seeing the complexity behind his thoughts was astounding. As a true dragon he has much conflict over the event, rather than being the chest beating purity wagon that the other dragons convey. He struggles internally with great burden to allow everyone to contiune their own unique path, even if it means watching horrible acts occur against his personal wishes. all in all, I can only say *wow* about the fiction. As much as I'm dying to see the next part, I don't want to see this piece end since it's so sweet. Akagi - bearer of the gaki tattoo _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From togashilove at hotmail.com Wed Dec 11 13:07:57 2002 From: togashilove at hotmail.com (John Panagiotakis) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:30 2003 Subject: [dragon] Story Effect: Why Satsu got captured Message-ID: Greetings, "Ilan Muskat" wrote: > >[I'm kidding. But I think Kagetora (in-game) is a cooler personality >by a >long shot. Satsu can guide the Togashi order all he wants, but >Kagetora >is actually a mortal, and I really think that the balance >between Togashi >and Hitomi is what this cool, cool clan should be >about. Maybe the >Mirumoto should lead the clan but no *way* Uso is >cooler than Kag or >Satsu... sorry, here's my two cents. *plink, >plink*] > >Matsu Kinra (Ilan Muskat) Well, coming from the mouth of one who is used to be guided by mortal leaders it's no suprise!! 8p!! Just teasing. ___Togashi Agozatsu___ *Dragon Clan Samurai*Monk*Tattooed* Acolyte_of_Maths*Storyteller*exp* *Will only join the Dragon or Scorpion clan* "Each path that is true is dangerous. If there is no one to bar your way, no challenge to overcome, then you know that the choice is honorless." -Hitomi ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From TaintedTattoo at aol.com Wed Dec 11 08:31:01 2002 From: TaintedTattoo at aol.com (TaintedTattoo@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:31 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: <174.134c8018.2b289815@aol.com> 1. Thanks that you spare so much time for me 2. From a modern point of view you right I guess, but wat I say is what Hakene would say. And until now he never had an L5R Rulebook in his hand. But he knows that with taint comes power. For what you use it is up to you. 3. Yes, there are only a hand full of people that were tainted and were free again. But there are many who try to use the taint against the shadowlands. I don?t know how many Damned there are, but they exist. DO NOT IGNORE THAT! What Hakene says is that some of the dragon clan should use the taint to fight for the goals of our clan. Even if they can?t fight the shadowlands we have enough enemys to fight against. If you ask him we should ally with the shadowlands. When did they attacked US the last time? Yes, the dark Oracle b urns our lands, but it was invited by some of our true enemys. We are used to fight the shadowlands, that?s it. There is no other reason. 4. I don?t know whether Hakene joins the shadowlands. When I look at the card Hitaka got for what he has done at GenCon UK, then I see a dark future. Hakene started as a Mirumoto Bushi. After reaching School Rank 5 Hakene was a Duelling Killing Machine. And he enjoyed it. Then he retired because there was no one to fight him. Dark Times came and he joined Hitomi in her fight against the shadow. And at this time he was tainted. First I thought my gamemaster was mad, but later I found out that it was never before such interesting. Hakene allways has to keep balance. He is the one with the calm mind in our group. While others don?t care about a Heimin life, he does. Not that he doesn?t kill if it seems necessary, but allways with a reason and never only because he was used to fight against this kind of enemy. After the fiction I will know what my fate is, what side I should choose. At least I hope so. 5. Please think about this: Why do we fight against the shadowlands? Is there really a need to? Can?t we coexist? Hitomi Hakene Dragon Clan Tattooed Shadowlands Madman "Sometimes you must embrace the darkness to ascend in light" Visit Shrine of the new Moon gaidin71@hotmail.com wrote: > I have kept silent so far in this arguement, due to a distinctive lack of > time to respond. Now however, I have found sometime to write so here goes: > > The main arguement of the tainted players in this list, is that they use > the > taint to help their Clan, and make a hard choice in doing so. First of all > let us be done with this fallacy once and for all: > Rokugan D20 RPG p.137: > The Shadowlands Taint: > The mystical condition known to the Empire as the Shadowlands Taint is one > of the deadliest threats Rokugan has ever faced. It is a physical and > spiritual affliction that slowly and inexorably corrupts every aspect of > the > victim's life. The Taint is nothing less than the influence of the dark > lord Fu Leng. Just as his power has turned a once verdant land into the > foul and twisted Shadowlands, so too can his will subvert and destroy even > the most powerful samurai if they do not take the necessary precautions. > > ... > Acquiring the taint(same page): > ... Fu Leng's power and influence extend to all things inside those dark > lands, warping them to suit his foul purposes. Human beings are not > different, and quickly succumb to his power without protection. > > Fortunes and Winds D20 RPG supplement,p.33(after explaining that Taint is > the Control mechanics for Jigoku-for more details read the supplement): > GMs should keep in mind that Jigoku is an intelligent cunning source for > evil. Though many of its servants are mindless and stupid, the Taint itself > is not. A Tainted character who loses control will not necessarily kill > everything in sight if such an act would deprive Jigoku of a useful > pawn.The > Taint is more likely to cause the character to perform acts that would > alienate him from friends,family and clan. > > Ring a bell? > There. It is written in black and white plain as day. You want to debate > it, > take it up with the storytelling team. The mechanics are quite clear. You > do > not control the manifestation of taint in you. It is intelligent, and > serves > the Dark Lord. Therefore, when a Dragon, one of the Clan that is most hated > by Fu Leng due to our obedience of Togashi, the kami that thwarted his > domination of Rokugan and the Celestial Heavens, succumbs to the Taint, he > does not get to pick cute and cuddly powers that help his Clan. He gets > powers that help the Dark Lord's cause. > > The second part of the ridiculous storyline arguements that are used by the > Shadowlands followers of Kokujin (who after their recent positions after > the > fiction, can no longer be called Dragon players, since they have definitely > lost the benefit of the doubt) is that there have been cases that people > control the spread of the taint. Oni no Okura, Akodo Godaigo and other such > notables being examples. What these gentlemen forget to state, is that in > an > Empire of millions of people (when the samurai armies of the Lion are > 500.000, without the ashigaru, the math dictates that we are talking about > tens of millions of people inhabiting the Empire), the cases that this has > happened can be counted with one hand. Therefore, it is not a logical > arguement that people can control the taint, because these were > extraordinary individuals, and for every one of them, there are tens of > thousands of historical cases in Rokugan, that foolishly tried to control > the taint, and succumbed to Fu Leng. > > The third part of the amusing inconsistency that is the tao of the 'Tainted > Dragon player'(who from now on shall be refered to in my dictionary as > Shadowland Follower of Kokujin, or Tainted follower of Taki in my case) is > their support of the tattoed madman. The last few comments in the list have > been quite , for lack of better word, ludicrous. First of all people should > decide whether they consider Kokujin an outside agent serving himself, a > Tainted Dragon that wishes to help the Clan or something else. Pick one and > stick to it. The assertion that Kokujin is a Tainted Dragon that wishes to > help the Dragon means de facto that the person that is talking on the other > end is not taking the storyline arguement seriously, and merely wants to > persuade others that he actually has a stroryline reason for playing > Tainted > Dragon other than the Beavis and Butthead type of arguement that Kokujin is > cool. People that want to serve their Clan: > a) Obey their superiors > b) Do not attack their Clanmates > c) Do not sacrifice their Clanmates > d) Do not advise Daigotsu > e) Are not deranged > As to the assumption that Kokujin is in control of his taint, this is also > ridiculous, as can be seen from the RPG supplements quoted above. True, he > has been able to control its spread due to the possesion of Togashi's > Daisho, but the explanation is a very simple one on his 'control' of his > existing taint: WHEN SOMEONE IS A WILLING SERVANT OF EVIL BY HIS OWN HAND, > ONE DOES NOT NEED HIS HAND TWISTED. The Taint merely helps Kokujin carry > out > his evil plots, since they fall in nicely with the plans of Fu Leng for the > Empire. > > Now let us see some of the hilarious/ridiculous comments, that have > surfaced > on the list: > > > >Please don?t understand me wrong. I don?t say that Kokujin isn?t mad. I?m > >sure he is. > >But what I say is that Satsu is mad, too. What if he becomes our new > >leader? > Satsu is mad. Why is that exactly? > > >Kitsuki Magistrate: "Lord Satsu, you are invited to the imperial Winter > >Court" > >Satsu:"They dare to invite me? They will ountnumber me! Attack them, > >slaughter them all!" > Tell you what. Kokujin is invited by the Jade Magistrate to a tea party. > When you tell me that Kokujin attends since it is an invitation, we will > discuss this most logical of arguements you have. > > >It?s not so that I can?t live with a mad leader, but then I would prefer > >Kokujin. He?s more trained in such things than Satsu :-) > >Power isn?t selfish if you are a good leader. It should be allowed for >a > >daimyo to search for personal power. Sacrificing others is the job >of a > >daimyo. He is the one that has to life, that?s all. Take Yokuni >for > >example, how many samurai has he used for his struggle against >destiny? > >Kokujin does the same, just in a more personal way. > In a more personal way.hm. so let me get this straight. The sacrifice of > Togashi, who spent his whole life not in the glory of the Heavens but in > unending toil against Fu Leng, is the equivalent of a mad powerhungry > traitor who is looking for personal power.I see your point. And last time I > checked, Kokujin was not a Daimyo, but a Shadowlands advisor of Daigotsu. > Therefore, you are right, the heavy burden of a Daimyo is to sacrifice the > lives of his samurai, in order to benefit his Clan. What has that got to do > with Kokujin?NOTHING. > > >They first wanted to meet Kokujin where he had asked them, and fight > > >him.Kokujin sent Kobai and the bakemonos instead of coming personally. > > >They now had to find him. But there's a big difference between finding > > >Kokujin in his realm by themselves, or with the help of "companions" > > who > >can backstab them at any time. > >No, they were just camping somewhere. > A)you forget that Satsu bursts in full of wounds telling the rest he knows > where Kokujin is. I suppose these were given to him by ferocious rabbits or > something. > B)I know there is an obscure ise zumi punchline in your joke, but I fail to > see it. Let me guess: they were roastin marshmallows and singing boyscout > songs in the wildrness... > > >Chained? From where do you get this? > >I believe that Kobai wouldn't have hold his promise and attacked the > > >party,just like you believe he would. > >Is there any reason why Kokujin, who seems right now to be absolut > > >superior , should chain them? > Jee I don't know. Maybe so he could put them on the Anvil of Despair and > forge them into weapons maybe? OR maybe because it is hard to trust someone > who left the Dragon swearing he would bring Togashi's Daisho back, or die > trying, and tehn turns up as a follower of Kokujin? > > > >What has our clan become? We kill, because we can? We kill, because we > > >don?t have to be diplomatic? We kill, because we perhaps can win a > >?>battle?They went to the shadowlands. They exspected violence from >those > >evil creatures. What they get was an invitation. The reacted >with > >violence. Now tell me who the evil one is > The evil one is the guy with the Shadowlands taint, the forcefully > converted > Kobai, the guy that sacrifices one of his oldest acquaintances on the Anvil > of Despair, who is an advisor to Daigotsu. By your reasoning, Tsudao is > evil > because she hacked of poor Daigotsu's hand when he had stated he would not > interfere against her from then on. And btw, we kill because taint serves > Fu > Leng, and our Clan has always been the first line of defence against Taint, > just as the Crab have been the first line of defence against the > Shadowlands > on the wall. > > >Surrender? Is it called surrender if you follow a greeting comitee and > > you > >don?t slaugther them? They wanted to go to Kokujin. Kokujin called >them. > >What a suprise that he was prepared. > Like I said. The Jade Champion wants to invite Kokujin to a tea party. With > a welcoming comitee and everything.He too will be prepared... > > >I really don?t think it is insane to build an great artifact. Killing > > >without need is insane for me. To attack people that invite you is > > >insane for me. > So you see nothing wrong with killing your brother or your sister, so you > can build a weapon for your personal use. I see. And you are of course > using > the taint here to help your Clan. How obvious. I am surprised all these > people cannot see it. I will tell you what. If all the Dragon players in > this list invite Kokujin to the Shrine of the Moon, on a pilgrimage(or the > Shrine of the Sun, if you prefer the Dragon Lands), you will obviously > come.And you will obviously not attack the Mirumoto warriors that surround > you and him, or the Tamori shugenja, or the Kitsuki magistrates, or the > kikage and ise zumi... > > The lines have been drawn clear as day: you play tainted you ally with the > Shadowlands. You no longer serve your Clan. And guess what Tainted Dragon > players?you serve Kokujin or Taki, you serve the Shadowlands. You are in > effect Shadowlands players, playing off the Dragon box. You butcher your > former Clan mates, and do what is necessary for the glory of the Dark Kami. > > If people want to play tainted Dragon fine.It is their choice. But if they > want to argue about the storyline validity of their choices, pleaz try and > come up with something that remotely makes sense.The Kokujin tea party > invaded by yobs scenario is just too ludicrous for contemplation.... > > As for me, I have been tainted, and serve the Dark Kami now, just Kokujin > does, just like Taki, and just like everyone else with Taint. And though I > may glory in killing the Phoenix scum, I cannot say I do it for my Clan... > > Mirumoto Izo > Tainted Tattoed Samurai > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021211/73e4ec24/attachment.html From TaintedTattoo at aol.com Wed Dec 11 08:08:55 2002 From: TaintedTattoo at aol.com (TaintedTattoo@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:31 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction Message-ID: <19a.d15e87d.2b2892e7@aol.com> bowman_rob@hotmail.com wrote: > I am also asking > when Kokujin has ever acted "good"? > > Take care, > Rob- Mirumoto Shokan The problem is that there is no good or bad. Whatever I say that Kokujin did for good would be bad in your eyes. But on the other hand what has he done that was so bad? 1.He is Shadowlands. While this is a crime in Rokugan, some people are allowed to be it. Akodo Godaigo and the dark Daughter of Storms are some of them. 2. He has stolen the Daisho Yes, he did. But it was for "good" because it helped him to keep his taint under control. 3. He influenced Hitomi Hell, this was his job. She wanted to learn and he teached her. 4. He killed Dragon Yes, he did. And how many tried to kill him? Selfdefence should be allowed. 5. He invited Satsu to teach him enlightment and to give him the daisho back. Okay, now you got me. Kokujin is evil. Hitomi Hakene Dragon Clan Tattooed Shadowlands Madmen "Sometimes you must embrace the darkness to ascend in light" Visit Shrine of the new Moon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021211/40d8fd24/attachment.html From TaintedTattoo at aol.com Wed Dec 11 08:36:30 2002 From: TaintedTattoo at aol.com (TaintedTattoo@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:31 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: <167.183e56a0.2b28995e@aol.com> bowman_rob@hotmail.com wrote: > 3) Lastly I forgot to mention it, but I too agree that the lines have been > draw as I continue to see every tainted peep on Kokujin's side. I would > bet, *and it is just my opinion, nothing official here*, Kobai is the > storyline team's acknowledgement of Hakene's desires and victory. Notice > he > is not on our side :(. > > Take care, > If that is so, then I am dissapointed, because it seems that Kobai is allready dead. Perhaps it is time for the pure dragon to cheer at this point :-( You never know what you get with a storyline victory and while dragon won, perhaps I have lost :-( But until now nothing is sure :-) Hitomi Hakene Dragon Clan Tattooed Shadowlands Madman "Sometimes you must embrace the darkness to ascend in light" Visit Shrine of the new Moon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021211/f189492d/attachment.html From appie666 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 11 12:13:54 2002 From: appie666 at hotmail.com (Togashi Masurao) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:31 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: I applaud your piece and I wholly agree! Perhaps you should write a manifest to guide the Tainted mind? >As for me, I have been tainted, and serve the Dark Kami now, just Kokujin >does, just like Taki, and just like everyone else with Taint. And though I >may glory in killing the Phoenix scum, I cannot say I do it for my Clan... > >Mirumoto Izo >Tainted Tattoed Samurai Domo arigoto, though if I find you... ;0) Togashi Masurao Dragon Clan Prodigy * Crab Clan Honorary Hida Family Member * Scorpion Clan Court Attendant * Crane Clan Comedian * Phoenix Clan Ishiken (D'oh) * Rice Paper Bushi * Liason to the Clans * Massage Monk * Erudite Educator * Tattooed Samurai * Shugenja "I am no colaborator! I am just a man with many interests!" "When the Many are reduced to One, to what is the One reduced?" the old monk asked Okugi. "Easy," the young prodigy said, "the One would be reduced to Many. There is balance in all things and it must be reserved. Isn't that so, dono?" The old monk simply smiled. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From togashilove at hotmail.com Wed Dec 11 13:03:39 2002 From: togashilove at hotmail.com (John Panagiotakis) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:31 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: Greetings, "Michael Iakovides" wrote: [snip great post] >The lines have been drawn clear as day: you play tainted you ally with the >Shadowlands. You no longer serve your Clan. And guess what Tainted Dragon >players?you serve Kokujin or Taki, you serve the Shadowlands. You are in >effect Shadowlands players, playing off the Dragon box. You butcher your >former Clan mates, and do what is necessary for the glory of the Dark Kami. > >Mirumoto Izo >Tainted Tattoed Samurai Well said Izo-san. That should cram some big mouths...8> ___Togashi Agozatsu___ *Dragon Clan Samurai*Monk*Tattooed* Acolyte_of_Maths*Storyteller*exp* *Will only join the Dragon or Scorpion clan* "Each path that is true is dangerous. If there is no one to bar your way, no challenge to overcome, then you know that the choice is honorless." -Hitomi ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From togashi_akagi at hotmail.com Wed Dec 11 09:48:38 2002 From: togashi_akagi at hotmail.com (akagi togashi) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:31 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: >2) Actually on Kokujin, some of the older d10 stuff does portray him more >as a Free Agent than pawn. Darn straight :) Still the overall rules for Taint >still apply, and in all the thousands years with all the tens/hundreds of >thousand/millions of other people, that still leaves us with less than 10 >peeps who have not sucumbed to the Taint. That also leaves all those >claiming to be Dark Dragon on something other than a life time subsciption >to "The Dragon Daily" ;p!! Yeah, it's a rough road but it's got far better odds than becoming the new moon which has been done what? once? ;P The largest appeal for me to play and use tainted IC is it's at least attempting to be that one in a billion rather than a cookie cutter purity driven hero. It's rough odds but sometimes they play out. >3) Lastly I forgot to mention it, but I too agree that the lines have been >draw as I continue to see every tainted peep on Kokujin's side. I would >bet, *and it is just my opinion, nothing official here*, Kobai is the >storyline team's acknowledgement of Hakene's desires and victory. Notice >he is not on our side :(. Kobai and the others certainly are an expression of the tainted/corrupt players in support of kokujin. I'd been saying Kobai was fallen for a very long time, yet whenever I try and provide any info about kokujin, tainted dragons, or dark enlightenment I get completely ignored or flamed for some odd reason. Sometimes there's truth in madness ;) Oh well, glad to see kobai picked up the kokujin name like I said he would :) If kokujin using the anvil is a reflection on the in game steps, I'm wondering how nasty the steel throne aspect is going to be, and what it'll show up as. I doubt it'll be the actual steel throne, but likely it will invovle Satsu or another one of the survivors geting some sort of taint. The thought of kokujin's daisho being completed with the blood of dragon champions is fearsome, I can't wait. Akagi - bearer of teh gaki tattoo _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From TattooedSamurai at cs.com Wed Dec 11 03:19:01 2002 From: TattooedSamurai at cs.com (TattooedSamurai@cs.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:31 2003 Subject: [dragon] online play? Message-ID: <180.129d2597.2b284ef5@cs.com> i have heard that there is a place or site where one can play l5r online is this true? ...if so can someone give me the coneecting information? Hitomi Kenryoku Dragon Clan Hitoden * Samurai * Tattooed * Double Chi * Tactician DR++++ S++ G++ Y+ M+ H+ E(3) O+ EJ+ SJ+ I+ C+++ E+ U- - T- D+ K - H++ TK- !IC U+++ From box at metrocast.net Wed Dec 11 02:43:00 2002 From: box at metrocast.net (Mister Stuff) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:31 2003 Subject: [dragon] Water Military revelation Message-ID: <5145C4CE-0CF5-11D7-B3F7-003065E72BF2@metrocast.net> Greetings. You may recall that I profess a large amount of experience with a Dragon archetype which I refer to as Tattooed Water Military. This archetype is, in essense, avoidance speed military. It relies upon movement (Naga Tattoo, Sup Tacts, Gift o/t Water Dragon, etc) and an uber-unit to take undefended Provinces. Ideally, the deck takes a Province on turn 3, and sometimes on turn 2. The archetype utilizes monks and Tattooed Personalities, along with Followers, to move, gain enough Force to take Provinces, and to generally be very slippery. The two biggest weaknesses of this deck (and one exacerbates the other) are the inherent weakness in any uber-unit (so much resource, if destroyed, is a huge loss), and the fact that the deck falls apart when it has to face defenders in mid-game. Late-game, it tends to be huge and sick enough (provided a healthy development) to be able to pull out a big final battle. But during the middle game, when the opponent has plenty of defenders such that you won't be able to find an undefended, or weakly-defended, Province to move into. This right here is the most pronounced downfall of the archetype. I think that I've discovered a way to counteract this. It involves one Personality, a couple copies of a particular Tattoo or two, a couple copies of an Item, and a couple of Kiho. I will simply list them below, because I'm sure that you will draw the connections on your own. Togashi Chuichi Spider Tattoo x2 or x3 Wave Tattoo Footman's Yari x2 or x3 Purity of Shinsei x2 or x3 Palm Strike x2 or x3 Fist of Osano-Wo x2 or x3 Add in RoV, Kansuke, Shiro Tamori, plus the standard Tattooed Water Military stuff (Nyima, Vedau, Kagetora, Eisai, Wayan, Mountain/Hummingbird/Naga Tattoos, etc.), and you have a very revised and hopefully stronger deck. You will have to play this a few times to decide upon exactly how many copies of which types of bowing/anti-bowing battle cards to put in (from the list above), without watering down the main engine (the standard stuff for this archetype). This can be very strong. I am interested in your thoughts! *bow* -T Togashi Ashido Dragon Clan Monk * Tattooed * Experienced The Wandering Monk * Unique From mkd8 at cornell.edu Thu Dec 12 02:49:29 2002 From: mkd8 at cornell.edu (Matt Dalen) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:31 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin In-Reply-To: <008c01c2a0b2$47bd8220$f839fea9@spaniel> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021212024740.06d32cb0@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> >b) Do not attack their Clanmates - See our allies the Scorpion (who is to >say which faction is right?) Um, the clan champion? In a feudal system, especially one based on service as Rokugan is, and without an Emperor on the throne, the Clan Champion is the ultimate guide as to right and wrong for a clan. Opposing him is wrong. If you disagree with him, sepukku is an acceptable alternative. >Hitomi Touken Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) Dragon Clan Alchemist ? Shugenja ? Jade Hand Scribe ? Self-appointed Yu Master "Death! Destruction! KITTENS!!!" - allegedly Mirumoto Junnosuke, right before executing his famed "kitten maneuver" at the massacre of Happy Children Village. http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 From TattooedSamurai at cs.com Wed Dec 11 02:16:07 2002 From: TattooedSamurai at cs.com (TattooedSamurai@cs.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:31 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: In a message dated 12/10/2002 4:51:31 PM Mountain Standard Time, gaidin71@hotmail.com writes: << As for me, I have been tainted, and serve the Dark Kami now, just Kokujin does, just like Taki, and just like everyone else with Taint. And though I may glory in killing the Phoenix scum, I cannot say I do it for my Clan... Mirumoto Izo Tainted Tattoed Samurai >> ******* I like your Honesty Izo, And yours is the most Valid Argument heard thus far ...and your tainted. }bows{ but make sure you can "end" it before it begins to hurt us. From gaidin71 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 11 00:52:41 2002 From: gaidin71 at hotmail.com (Michael Iakovides) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:31 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: well to be honest I kinda snapped:). I had all these emails cluttering my box, and then I saw the wrapper wallpaper for the Fall that shows what my idea of everything the Dragon are(I love the Mirumoto above all) Mirumoto Hyosuke on the wall facing down the Shadowlands Horde, and I kinda figured that: a) if the Tainted Dragon players have serious arguements they wish to put forth, they should do so, and not use sophistry(a skill that is quite natural to me, since it was invented in the city I live in:) b)wrap this up and get the list to have a healthy balance of card and strategy related posts and story related posts. Btw, I know the D10 material you are refering to about Kokujin, but my point is this: Iuchiban too seemed to operate for his own goals,as a free agent. And the Taint helped, and not hindered him. We cannot know if Kokujin is in control of his Taint, since he has never done anything that was not in Jigoku's benefit. Therefore, it is quite debatable if he is a free agent or not. He is not resisting the Taint, as is Okura, or Godaigo... Lastly, I wanted to commend Rich on the passage that made me laugh my ass off, even as I was reading this grim story: the parody of the Lord of the Rings part with the Anvil of Despair and destroying it in the Shadowlands. Brilliant:))))))))))))))) Regards, Michael Iakovides Mirumoto Izo Tainted Tattoed Samurai >Greetings, > >wow. > >Uhm, I am stunned at the depth you went to, domo arigato... . _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From mkd8 at cornell.edu Thu Dec 12 03:01:14 2002 From: mkd8 at cornell.edu (Matt Dalen) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:31 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin In-Reply-To: <174.134c8018.2b289815@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021212025159.06d18008@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> At 08:31 AM 12/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: >1. Thanks that you spare so much time for me >2. From a modern point of view you right I guess, but wat I say is what >Hakene would say. And until now he never had an L5R Rulebook in his hand. >But he knows that with taint comes power. For what you use it is up to you. But the problem is, the more you use the taint, the more Jigoku gets its hold on you. It's possible to live with the taint, yes - Kumiko has managed. But it's only possible if you *don't use it*. (or, in the case of Kokujin, you draw on a powerful source to fight it - in his case, the daisho). >3. Yes, there are only a hand full of people that were tainted and were >free again. But there are many who try to use the taint against the >shadowlands. I don?t know how many Damned there are, but they exist. DO >NOT IGNORE THAT! The damned were all tainted accidentally, and only fight for as long as they can before they succumb to the effects of the taint. They don't go out of their way to get tainted. >What Hakene says is that some of the dragon clan should use the taint to >fight for the goals of our clan. Even if they can?t fight the shadowlands >we have enough enemys to fight against. If you ask him we should ally with >the shadowlands. When did they attacked US the last time? Um... a few months ago, when Daigotsu attacked Otosan Uchi? We *are* part of the Empire. There's also the fact that Fu Leng is attacking the home of the kami. The only reason they haven't attacked our lands directly, other than the Dark Oracle, is because we're at the exact opposite end of the Empire. We're a very long way away from them. >Yes, the dark Oracle b urns our lands, but it was invited by some of our >true enemys. We have no idea who invited the Oracle to burn our lands. For all we know, it was Hitaka himself, or Daigotsu. >We are used to fight the shadowlands, that?s it. There is no other reason. Well, we're fighting the shadowlands because we want to keep our humanity. Jigoku is actively trying to take over Ningen-do, as well as the rest of the spirit realms. And Jigoku is a very jealous realm - anything it takes over, it controls. Most people don't want to become pawns of an evil realm, so they fight. >5. Please think about this: >Why do we fight against the shadowlands? Is there really a need to? Can?t >we coexist? No, because Jigoku is constantly trying to take over. If it weren't, I'm sure we could coexist. But the Shadowlands is an incursion from another spirit realm into Ningen-do. We're fighting off invaders. >Hitomi Hakene Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) Dragon Clan Alchemist ? Shugenja ? Jade Hand Scribe ? Self-appointed Yu Master "Fear the jade flames of my potions, Dark Oracle. You will die for your betrayal!" http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 From mkd8 at cornell.edu Thu Dec 12 03:03:04 2002 From: mkd8 at cornell.edu (Matt Dalen) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:31 2003 Subject: [dragon] online play? In-Reply-To: <180.129d2597.2b284ef5@cs.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021212030202.06d5ad58@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> At 03:19 AM 12/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: >i have heard that there is a place or site where one can play l5r online is >this true? ...if so can someone give me the coneecting information? Join the yahoo group l5r-gempukku. Gempukku is a game that allows you to play online, although you have to organize matches yourself. These are usually done through IRC, IM, or the ladder at www.l5ronline.com (don't use the database there... it's out of date.) >Hitomi Kenryoku Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) Dragon Clan Alchemist ? Shugenja ? Jade Hand Scribe ? Self-appointed Yu Master "Death! Destruction! KITTENS!!!" - allegedly Mirumoto Junnosuke, right before executing his famed "kitten maneuver" at the massacre of Happy Children Village. http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 From SLcpUnK420002 at aol.com Tue Dec 10 22:10:36 2002 From: SLcpUnK420002 at aol.com (SLcpUnK420002@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:32 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) Message-ID: <18d.12a0f5d6.2b2806ac@aol.com> In a message dated 12/10/2002 5:38:30 PM Central America Standard Ti, bowman_rob@hotmail.com writes: > Excuse me. You started this thread correct? You wanted to point out how > "Evil" Satsu was for attacking Kobai. Now let's skip the whole point about > > how warped your perspective is that you see a problem with anyone attacking > > known sworn enemies of Rokugan at any time under any circumstances and just > > get to the point of this email, okay ;)? > Kobai Is an evil twisted traitor who should be hung at tratiors grove or on the front of kyuden hitomi for betrayl.Of course that does not sound too civilized either but i still hate the taint. Lady Hitomi whould strike him down herself for such a traitorus act! > Please do not try and change the subject. I am not asking to debate the > morals of leaders here okay. And for the record, the simple fact you could > even make the suggestion that the "sacrifices" of Kokujin vs the Sacrifices > > of Yokuni are anything similar tells me a lot about your perspective. Yeah > > let's see Kokujin scarifices a POW to further increase the power of his > little personal tool. Wow, what a big sacrifice on his part ;). > > Yokuni *asks* his loyal follers to lay down their life for the good of the > Empire, as in Mirumoto Satsu. Note he *asked*, and if you think that is > horrible, understand a good leader never asks his men/women to do anything > he would not do. Which is exactly what he did come DoT, He sacrificed his > life to give all of us a chance to continue little debates like this, and > allow you the freedom to choose :). > > I am curious, what would Kokujin sacrifice his life for.... ??????? > > No, sorry to get sidetracked, the original point was how I am pointing out > how evil Kokujin is with a specific example (and please refer to some of > the > other great posts listing many more of Kokujin evil acts). I am also > asking > when Kokujin has ever acted "good"? > > Mirumoto Jon Dragon Clan Tattooed Samurai*Berserker*Crab Clan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021210/3d96382f/attachment.html From SLcpUnK420002 at aol.com Tue Dec 10 22:03:28 2002 From: SLcpUnK420002 at aol.com (SLcpUnK420002@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:32 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: <1ad.d6c051f.2b280500@aol.com> That was a bad ass! Thanks for posting so much detail! Domo, Miurmoto Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021210/db54e28b/attachment.html From jake2002 at sio.midco.net Wed Dec 11 13:07:54 2002 From: jake2002 at sio.midco.net (Eric Jacobson) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:32 2003 Subject: [dragon] Rules Question Message-ID: <004601c2a148$9c3dac80$ae92dc18@midco.net> Okay, I'm a little confused on this one now. I think I know how it works, but if I do I'm the only one around here and that doesn't seem to happen too often anymore. ; ) Snake Tattoo - effectively stops (for example): Iaijutsu Duel Test of Might Block Supply Lines To Do What We Must Stand Against the Waves (with the Flee ruling? iffy) But not: Refugees (could target even if not presence) Tsudao favor ability Flattery Am I right? And the second part: Will Gift of the Water Dragon even stop Flattery and Torrential Rain from affecting your personality? Hitomi Jaek Dragon Clan Laughseeker * Shugenja * Monk * Tattooed "You know you're overly analytical when someone says, 'You think too much!' and you ask, 'What does that mean?'" From jake2002 at sio.midco.net Wed Dec 11 13:14:58 2002 From: jake2002 at sio.midco.net (Eric Jacobson) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:32 2003 Subject: [dragon] Togashi's Shrine and Hiroko References: <4F599DE9.5B9AFC1F.0CA7FFEB@aol.com> Message-ID: <005001c2a149$98d0cae0$ae92dc18@midco.net> > Just a timing question really. When I pitch a card to Togashi's Shrine to get a ring then >bow Hiroko to draw a card, when do I draw the card from her ability? Is it before I >fetch the ring or after? Never saw anyone really look this one up, so here goes: Limited: Bow Togashi's Shrine and discard a card to get an Elemental Ring from your deck or discard pile, show it to everyone, and put it in your hand. The discarding is a cost. You pay the cost and then get the benefit. So, you could bow Hiroko in response and draw a card before you go get the Ring. Hitomi Jaek Dragon Clan Laughseeker * Shugenja * Monk * Tattooed "You know you're overly analytical when someone says, 'You think too much!' and you ask, 'What does that mean?'" From chron_d at hotmail.com Thu Dec 12 08:32:10 2002 From: chron_d at hotmail.com (Chrondeath Dracion) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:32 2003 Subject: [dragon] A funny thought Message-ID: This doesn't have much to do with anything, but it's been rattling around in my head since he called her a harlot, and there's at least a chance they'll be duking it out sometime in the future... Did it occur to anybody else that Hitomi could now say "Who's your daddy?" to Fu Leng...and, given the whole "being assimilated with Onnotangu's hand" thing, actually make a reasonable argument that it's her? :) +--+ |\/| -Mirumoto Kharon |/\| chron_d@hotmail.com +--+ Telekinesis: It's the thought that counts. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From mkd8 at cornell.edu Thu Dec 12 03:41:25 2002 From: mkd8 at cornell.edu (Matt Dalen) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:32 2003 Subject: [dragon] Rules Question In-Reply-To: <004601c2a148$9c3dac80$ae92dc18@midco.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021212033835.06d52ea8@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> At 01:07 PM 12/11/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Okay, I'm a little confused on this one now. I think I know how it works, >but if I do I'm the only one around here and that doesn't seem to happen too >often anymore. ; ) > >Snake Tattoo - effectively stops (for example): >Iaijutsu Duel >Test of Might >Block Supply Lines >To Do What We Must >Stand Against the Waves (with the Flee ruling? iffy) Doesn't stop Stand. You're doing the targetting, not your opponent, even if it is your opponent's card. >But not: >Refugees (could target even if not presence) >Tsudao favor ability I believe that it does indeed stop those, since they say "a personality at this battle", and the personality is no longer at this battle. I could be wrong, though. >Flattery Correct - Flattery doesn't target. >Am I right? > >And the second part: >Will Gift of the Water Dragon even stop Flattery and Torrential Rain from >affecting your personality? No - Their primary effect is ending the battle... the text about sending home is just to say what happens to everyone. >Hitomi Jaek >Dragon Clan Laughseeker * Shugenja * Monk * Tattooed Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) Dragon Clan Alchemist ? Shugenja ? Jade Hand Scribe ? Self-appointed Yu Master "Fear the jade flames of my potions, Dark Oracle. You will die for your betrayal!" http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 From TaintedTattoo at aol.com Wed Dec 11 14:00:26 2002 From: TaintedTattoo at aol.com (TaintedTattoo@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:32 2003 Subject: [dragon] Tainted Combo? Message-ID: <105.21dc46fd.2b28e54a@aol.com> Glory to the taint! Could it be that we have a new combo? After hours of meditation within my maho chamber I found enlightment. What do you think about Dragon Tattoo+Hungry Ghost+Wave Tattoo? Hitomi Hakene Dragon Clan Tattooed Shadowlands Madman "Sometimes you must embrace the darkness to ascend in light." Visit Shrine of the new Moon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021211/b39e7edf/attachment.html From togashilove at hotmail.com Thu Dec 12 12:11:59 2002 From: togashilove at hotmail.com (John Panagiotakis) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:32 2003 Subject: [dragon] Tainted Combo? Message-ID: TaintedTattoo@aol.com wrote: > >Glory to the taint! >Could it be that we have a new combo? >After hours of meditation within my maho chamber I found enlightment. >What do you think about Dragon Tattoo+Hungry Ghost+Wave Tattoo? > >Hakene Where does "Wave Tattoo" fit in all this combo? Moreover, what do you hope to accomplish with it since it doesn't work with "Dragon Tattoo"?? 8\ ___Togashi Agozatsu___ *Dragon Clan Samurai*Monk*Tattooed* Acolyte_of_Maths*Storyteller*exp* *Will only join the Dragon or Scorpion clan* "Each path that is true is dangerous. If there is no one to bar your way, no challenge to overcome, then you know that the choice is honorless." -Hitomi ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From RatEmperor at aol.com Thu Dec 12 05:36:12 2002 From: RatEmperor at aol.com (RatEmperor@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:32 2003 Subject: [dragon] A Question Message-ID: <4D3F9DA4.04AEE0BE.0C6F337D@aol.com> I have a question...where does it say that Kokujin is using the daisho to help him stave off the taint? I have yet to see any stories or official story team posts that would implicate this. As far as i can tell, this idea sprouted up with the Omen story, and has quickly been adopted as canon by the fans... I am quite willing to believe that I am wrong on this one, I would just like to know where and/or when this concept became official... Kchat'Arak Ise Nezumi From ramela at cs.helsinki.fi Thu Dec 12 15:08:29 2002 From: ramela at cs.helsinki.fi (Anssi Ramela) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:32 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin References: Message-ID: <015701c2a1e2$3b9ab270$b75a030a@helia.amk> From: "Rob Bowman" > 2) Actually on Kokujin, some of the older d10 stuff does portray him more as > a Free Agent than pawn. Still the overall rules for Taint still apply, and > in all the thousands years with all the tens/hundreds of thousand/millions > of other people, that still leaves us with less than 10 peeps who have not > sucumbed to the Taint. How do you know that Kokujin is not one of them? IMO we won't know until the storyteam outright tell us whether he is or not. >That also leaves all those claiming to be Dark > Dragon on something other than a life time subsciption to "The Dragon Daily" > ;p!! I hope you are talking about people with the taint _in_the_fiction_ and not people in real life. From: "Michael Iakovides" > The lines have been drawn clear as day: you play tainted you ally with the > Shadowlands. You no longer serve your Clan. And guess what Tainted Dragon > players?you serve Kokujin or Taki, you serve the Shadowlands. You are in > effect Shadowlands players, playing off the Dragon box. You butcher your > former Clan mates, and do what is necessary for the glory of the Dark Kami. Bull Shit. For someone who writes this clear and well argumented text, you have really selfrighteous attitudes. You have no right to tell anyone what clan they belong to. No one is a Shadowlands player just because they put cards with the Shadowlands trait in their decks. Every player has his own ideal about whether they belong in a clan or not, and why their "alignement" is whatever it is. Don't impose your ideals on others. BTW, are you a member of the Imperial Assembly? If so, have you changed your membership to a Shadowlands membership? Anssi Ramela From ramela at cs.helsinki.fi Thu Dec 12 14:16:53 2002 From: ramela at cs.helsinki.fi (Anssi Ramela) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:32 2003 Subject: [dragon] Honorable tattooed attack deck References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021209140620.0778ce48@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20021210092000.00cadb08@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <015601c2a1e2$3b8862f0$b75a030a@helia.amk> The problem with all these "drawing a card during the action phase" tricks is the fact that you _have_ to use those cards immideately or during the upcoming attack phase. If you use all of those cards for pumps, you have no options left in your hand to guard against your opponents actions. OtOH, if you don't use them, your opponent might end the battle action action phase before you can unload all those cards, thus denying you the RoV draw. The funny thing is that Tattoos are the perfect counter to this, giving a host of actions you can take after emptying your hand, it's just that Tattoos are not powerful enough for this to be worthwhile. (At the moment, though I don't think that will ever change for the better.) From: "Matt Dalen" > Once I get the card draw engine going (read: get the ring of the void): > If you have Togashi Iroshi out, use him -> 1 draw > Respond to this with however many Hirokos you have out -> 1-3 draws > If you have Walking the Way, use it -> 1 draw > Play a tattoo; if you have Temple of the Dragon, use it -> 1 draw > Play or discard all of the rest of the cards in your hand -> 5 draws during > your end phase. > Respond with Hiroko to the discards for pumping, if you didn't use > her on Iroshi > > There are at least 6 dynasty cards and 3 fate cards that result in > additional card draws. The odds are, I'm going to have at least one of the > dynasty-side drawing cards by the time I get out the ring of the > void. That makes 6+ cards per turn. (Ignoring one-time-use stuff, it's 5 > for the ring of the void, 3 for the hirokos, 2 for the iroshis, and 1 for > the temple of the dragon, making a maximum 11 cards per turn. This will > never actually happen, of course, but you can get to 6-7 cards per turn.) > > From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Thu Dec 12 14:15:35 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:32 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: Greetings, Since we are now using canon materials to back up our arguements thanks t= o=20 Izo-san, I thought I might continue the trend... >From: TaintedTattoo@aol.com >5. Please think about this: >Why do we fight against the shadowlands? Is there really a need to? Can=B4= t=20 >we >coexist? Are you serious Hakene? This would be hilarious, if you were not serious. Here are the points... 1) The are not freindly or nice in the Shadowlands. Proof- Pg 233 Orient= al=20 Adventures "And with the exception of the Nezumi, no creature dwells in t= he=20 Shadowlands that is not utterly, irredeemably evil." 2) They want to take over our Empire. Proof- Pg 234 Oriental Adventures "= If=20 the hordes of the Shadowlands have their way, no Emporer will ever again = sit=20 on the throne of rokugan.". Now when you put the part of them not being nice, with the mad power hung= ry=20 part, it is just my opinion, but trouble is the only possible result. Ym= mv. Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.=20 http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/featuredemail From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Thu Dec 12 14:22:26 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:32 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: Greetings, >From: "Anssi Ramela" > >From: "Rob Bowman" > > > 2) Actually on Kokujin, some of the older d10 stuff does portray him >more >as > > a Free Agent than pawn. Still the overall rules for Taint still apply, >and > > in all the thousands years with all the tens/hundreds of >thousand/millions > > of other people, that still leaves us with less than 10 peeps who have >not > > sucumbed to the Taint. > >How do you know that Kokujin is not one of them? IMO we won't know until >the storyteam outright tell us whether he is or not. Uhm, Pg 82 of "The Way of the Shadowlands"- "Now he possessed Fu Leng's Secrets as well, and two gods were his dupes. Kokujin served no master but himself." Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Thu Dec 12 14:28:03 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:32 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: Greetings, Akagi, this is why I have always repected you amoung the Dark Dragon (Well except for that blow up with Paul, and you should feel especially bad the way Rich is taking care of everything ;p!!). You are honest about your role, honest about where you fit into the grand scheme, and honest about your desires. In short you accept the guidelines, and still play out the character. Instead of playing devil's advocate, or worse, playing fast and loose with the "storyline rules", as many of your Drak Brethern do. Again I respect your path more than you know... . Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan >From: "akagi togashi" >Reply-To: dragon@michonline.com >To: dragon@michonline.com >Subject: Re: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin >Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:48:38 +0000 > >>2) Actually on Kokujin, some of the older d10 stuff does portray him more >>as a Free Agent than pawn. > >Darn straight :) > >Still the overall rules for Taint >>still apply, and in all the thousands years with all the tens/hundreds of >>thousand/millions of other people, that still leaves us with less than 10 >>peeps who have not sucumbed to the Taint. That also leaves all those >>claiming to be Dark Dragon on something other than a life time subsciption >>to "The Dragon Daily" ;p!! > >Yeah, it's a rough road but it's got far better odds than becoming the new >moon which has been done what? once? ;P > >The largest appeal for me to play and use tainted IC is it's at least >attempting to be that one in a billion rather than a cookie cutter purity >driven hero. It's rough odds but sometimes they play out. > >>3) Lastly I forgot to mention it, but I too agree that the lines have been >>draw as I continue to see every tainted peep on Kokujin's side. I would >>bet, *and it is just my opinion, nothing official here*, Kobai is the >>storyline team's acknowledgement of Hakene's desires and victory. Notice >>he is not on our side :(. > >Kobai and the others certainly are an expression of the tainted/corrupt >players in support of kokujin. I'd been saying Kobai was fallen for a very >long time, yet whenever I try and provide any info about kokujin, tainted >dragons, or dark enlightenment I get completely ignored or flamed for some >odd reason. Sometimes there's truth in madness ;) Oh well, glad to see >kobai picked up the kokujin name like I said he would :) > >If kokujin using the anvil is a reflection on the in game steps, I'm >wondering how nasty the steel throne aspect is going to be, and what it'll >show up as. I doubt it'll be the actual steel throne, but likely it will >invovle Satsu or another one of the survivors geting some sort of taint. > >The thought of kokujin's daisho being completed with the blood of dragon >champions is fearsome, I can't wait. > >Akagi - bearer of teh gaki tattoo > >_________________________________________________________________ >Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > >_______________________________________________ >Dragon mailing list >Dragon@michonline.com >http://michonline.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dragon _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Thu Dec 12 14:37:04 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:32 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: Greetings, >From: "Ann Burke" >Kokujin has acess to a Monk kiho that allows him to cleanse himself to >avoid >becoming Lost, he's not a direct minion of Jigoku, that however doesnt mean >he's not a deragned mad killer with an insaitable curiosity and a lust for >power. He's not a nice guy, So you are saying random acts of murder, torture, and other mayhem are not good things ;)? Yeah, I should have reemphasized this in my post showing he is not a pawn. just because he is a free agant does not mean I am inviting him to my Christmas dinner ;)!! Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Thu Dec 12 15:49:00 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:32 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: Greetings, >From: "Ben Moss" >Now if we go on the premise that Kokujin was prepared (see rules and old >d10 >stuff) and has retained control then we should be considering whether or >not >our brethren that tread Kokujin's path are infected with the Taint (aka Fu >Leng/Jigoku) or with.....errr... Kokujin (In the way that Hitomi's power >was >passed on to those she tattooed, etc). At this point the question of >whether or not any of his followers are strong enough to resist the Taint >becomes irrelevant as they do not have it. So all it took was Kokujin >himself to be strong enough. Neat theory. Based on nothing more then conjecture I would guess (I don't see any quotes anywhere), right? I could argue that since Oriental Adeventures states that everything in the Shadowlands is evil, and that the Shadowlands in an outer plane (Pg 234 Oriental Adventures) then Kokujins Gang has a better chance of being disguised Xill (Evil outsider pg 187 MM). At least I support my hypothesis with some compelling supporting documentation ;P!! The point here Ben is one of the Cradinal rules of L5R is that exceptions exist and these exceptions take priority over the general rules. Izo laid out the general rules, and even went to the extent of noting exceptions existed and listed a few of them. But unless you have clear documetation clarifying the exception (as per Kokujin which i just recently posted), the general rule applies. As for the difference between "quickly succumbing" and "controlling" the Taint. Well that is a huge jump my friend. Had you researched it (or asked) you might have learned "tea of jade petals" can *surpress* the taint. Hope that helps, and sorry I am so grumpy :(. It really bothers me when someone goes to all the trouble Izo did to educate us all and then for someone to argue exceptions all while offering nothing new. Again I apologize if I sound grumpy, I just wanted to make a point. Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From TattooedSamurai at cs.com Thu Dec 12 12:44:25 2002 From: TattooedSamurai at cs.com (TattooedSamurai@cs.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:32 2003 Subject: [dragon] A Question Message-ID: <197.121c77cd.2b2a24f9@cs.com> In a message dated 12/12/2002 3:38:19 AM Mountain Standard Time, RatEmperor@aol.com writes: << I have a question...where does it say that Kokujin is using the daisho to help him stave off the taint? I have yet to see any stories or official story team posts that would implicate this. As far as i can tell, this idea sprouted up with the Omen story, and has quickly been adopted as canon by the fans... I am quite willing to believe that I am wrong on this one, I would just like to know where and/or when this concept became official.. >> ******* yes this is a very good question for all we know Togashi new the path of Kokujin already and gave him a tattoo that would help him stave off the taint. From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Thu Dec 12 18:20:47 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:33 2003 Subject: [dragon] A Question Message-ID: Greetings, >From: TattooedSamurai@cs.com > >In a message dated 12/12/2002 3:38:19 AM Mountain Standard Time, >RatEmperor@aol.com writes: > ><< > I have a question...where does it say that Kokujin is using the daisho to >help him stave off the taint? I have yet to see any stories or official >story team posts that would implicate this. As far as i can tell, this >idea >sprouted up with the Omen story, and has quickly been adopted as canon by >the >fans... > > I am quite willing to believe that I am wrong on this one, I would just >like >to know where and/or when this concept became official.. >> >******* yes this is a very good question for all we know Togashi new the >path >of Kokujin already and gave him a tattoo that would help him stave off the >taint. Uhmmm, I do not have the answer to the first question (although I would love to know also), but your second statement is wrong. Way of Shadowlands, Pg 82- "Kokujin took the Dark Lord's power. The blood-red tattoos of Togashi took a smoky hue. The dark ise-zumi laughed again, for the cleansing kiho the Dragon had taught him protected him from the price of Fu Leng's power." Also who knows what Togashi knew about Kokujin, besides Togashi himself? Way of Shadowlands gives little info and Enlightened Madness part I gives only hints. I agree I would like to think Yokuni knew Kokujin path, and that he had to help Hitomi. But that is just idle speculation and nothing more, I can't find a single canon source to shed more light on the matter. Can anyone else offer solid evidence :)? Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From TaintedTattoo at aol.com Thu Dec 12 13:21:49 2002 From: TaintedTattoo at aol.com (TaintedTattoo@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:33 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: <90.3086a415.2b2a2dbd@aol.com> bowman_rob@hotmail.com wrote: > Yeah, I should have reemphasized this in my post showing he is not a pawn. > just because he is a free agant does not mean I am inviting him to my > Christmas dinner ;)!! > > Take care, > Rob- Mirumoto Shokan Guess what. I would be happy to have him present at mine ;-) This would be fun. Hitomi Hakene Dragon Clan Tattooed Shadowlands Madman "Sometimes you must embrace the darkness to ascend in light." Visit Shrine of the new Moon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021212/0318d75a/attachment.html From TaintedTattoo at aol.com Thu Dec 12 13:23:18 2002 From: TaintedTattoo at aol.com (TaintedTattoo@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:33 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: <1c0.2efa003.2b2a2e16@aol.com> bowman_rob@hotmail.com wrote: > Again I respect your path more than you know... . > > Take care, > Rob- Mirumoto Shokan > Could it be that Shokan-sama... No that can?t be. Hitomi Hakene Dragon Clan Tattooed Shadowlands Madman "Sometimes you must embrace the darkness to ascend in light." Visit Shrine of the new Moon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021212/fba7b835/attachment.html From TaintedTattoo at aol.com Thu Dec 12 13:29:34 2002 From: TaintedTattoo at aol.com (TaintedTattoo@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:33 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: <12e.1d698725.2b2a2f8e@aol.com> bowman_rob@hotmail.com wrote: > Are you serious Hakene? This would be hilarious, if you were not serious. > > Here are the points... > > 1) The are not freindly or nice in the Shadowlands. Proof- Pg 233 Oriental > > Adventures "And with the exception of the Nezumi, no creature dwells in the > > Shadowlands that is not utterly, irredeemably evil." > > 2) They want to take over our Empire. Proof- Pg 234 Oriental Adventures "If > > the hordes of the Shadowlands have their way, no Emporer will ever again > sit > on the throne of rokugan.". > > Now when you put the part of them not being nice, with the mad power hungry > > part, it is just my opinion, but trouble is the only possible result. > Ymmv. > > Take care, > Rob- Mirumoto Shokan > I don?t know if I am serious, but perhaps we should waste some time for this to think about. What will change for our clan if the shadowlands rule? Would it be better or worse. I am scared that I really don?t know. Right now the shadowlands are united and don?t fight against each other. And what does the empire? We fight each other to the last man, no one wants to see that something good happens to another one. I don?t see much difference between the shadowlands and us. They are killing there enemys, we do the same. It?s war, but I can?t tell any longer who is the aggressor. Yes, they have invaded our lands, but didn?t we do the same? Could it be that peace is worth surrender to the shadowlands? Hitomi Hakene Dragon Clan Tattooed Shadowlands Madman "Sometimes you must embrace the darkness to ascend in light." Visit Shrine of the new Moon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021212/4a3dbb41/attachment.html From TaintedTattoo at aol.com Thu Dec 12 13:31:58 2002 From: TaintedTattoo at aol.com (TaintedTattoo@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:33 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: <7f.30b128a1.2b2a301e@aol.com> mkd8@cornell.edu wrote: > No, because Jigoku is constantly trying to take over. If it weren't, I'm > sure we could coexist. But the Shadowlands is an incursion from another > spirit realm into Ningen-do. We're fighting off invaders. > > Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) > Dragon Clan Alchemist ? Shugenja ? Jade Hand Scribe ? Self-appointed Yu > Master > "Fear the jade flames of my potions, Dark Oracle. You will die for your > betrayal!" > http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 They try to take over and what do we? What bad will happen to us if the take over? Isn?t there any chance that we would have a better live? Hitomi Hakene Dragon Clan Tattooed Shadowlands Madman "Sometimes you must embrace the darkness to ascend in light." Visit Shrine of the new Moon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021212/a9ba2f20/attachment.html From mkd8 at cornell.edu Thu Dec 12 13:37:06 2002 From: mkd8 at cornell.edu (Matt Dalen) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:33 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin In-Reply-To: <12e.1d698725.2b2a2f8e@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021212133410.06d50880@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> >I don?t know if I am serious, but perhaps we should waste some time for >this to think about. What will change for our clan if the shadowlands rule? >Would it be better or worse. >I am scared that I really don?t know. Right now the shadowlands are united >and don?t fight against each other. And what does the empire? We fight >each other to the last man, no one wants to see that something good >happens to another one. >I don?t see much difference between the shadowlands and us. They are >killing there enemys, we do the same. It?s war, but I can?t tell any >longer who is the aggressor. Yes, they have invaded our lands, but didn?t >we do the same? Um, we never tried to invade Jigoku, which is the origin of the shadowlands. We tried to repel them from expanding, but it wasn't really successful until the Wall was built. (note that the modern-day shadowlands covers most of the area that used to be the Ratling Empire.) When we invade the shadowlands, we're merely trying to take back land that was stolen from us thousands of years ago. >Could it be that peace is worth surrender to the shadowlands? Peace is never worth enslavement. I'd much rather have a free mind and have to fight occasionally than be enslaved and at peace. >Hitomi Hakene Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) Dragon Clan Alchemist ? Shugenja ? Jade Hand Scribe ? Self-appointed Yu Master "Fear the jade flames of my potions, Dark Oracle. You will die for your betrayal!" http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 From TaintedTattoo at aol.com Thu Dec 12 13:38:47 2002 From: TaintedTattoo at aol.com (TaintedTattoo@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:33 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: In einer eMail vom 12.12.02 08:55:14 (MEZ) Mitteleurop?ische Zeit schreibt gaidin71@hotmail.com: > a) if the Tainted Dragon players have serious arguements they wish to put > forth, they should do so, and not use sophistry(a skill that is quite > natural to me, since it was invented in the city I live in:) > b)wrap this up and get the list to have a healthy balance of card and > strategy related posts and story related posts. > > Regards, > Michael Iakovides > Mirumoto Izo > Tainted Tattoed Samurai > Perhaps you are right. Perhaps not. I will use the taint to fight for my clan. The Damned do it and I am sure I can do the same, because I am a Dragon. And I hope that if I loose my fight against the taint there will be some of my brothers or sisters to take my head. I only borrowed my live and if my clan wants it back, so it be. But until then I will try. Because if you don?t try to succeed you even don?t have the chance to succeed. Hitomi Hakene Dragon Clan Tattooed Shadowlands Madman "Sometimes you must embrace the darkness to ascend in light." Visit Shrine of the new Moon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021212/a936ceb2/attachment.html From mkd8 at cornell.edu Thu Dec 12 13:41:51 2002 From: mkd8 at cornell.edu (Matt Dalen) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:33 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin In-Reply-To: <7f.30b128a1.2b2a301e@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021212133740.06d41b28@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> At 01:31 PM 12/12/2002 -0500, you wrote: >mkd8@cornell.edu wrote: > > >>No, because Jigoku is constantly trying to take over. If it weren't, I'm >>sure we could coexist. But the Shadowlands is an incursion from another >>spirit realm into Ningen-do. We're fighting off invaders. > >They try to take over and what do we? >What bad will happen to us if the take over? Isn??t there any chance that >we would have a better live? Off the top of my head, problems with the SLH taking over: Oni, Bakemono, and other denizens of Jigoku aren't exactly what you would call civilized. The odds of them killing random people for fun are high. The taint is *very* controlling, and since there's *maybe* a one in a million chance that you can resist it, which means that the majority of Rokugan will become slavering beasts. Personally, I kind of like my humanity. Removing the Celestial Order - falling under Jigoku's sway would remove any connection we have to our ancestors or to Tengoku. This would be a bad thing, since the primary facet of the Rokugani religion is devotion to the kami and to ancestors. >Hitomi Hakene Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) Dragon Clan Alchemist ? Shugenja ? Jade Hand Scribe ? Self-appointed Yu Master "Death! Destruction! KITTENS!!!" - allegedly Mirumoto Junnosuke, right before executing his famed "kitten maneuver" at the massacre of Happy Children Village. http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 From TaintedTattoo at aol.com Thu Dec 12 13:42:49 2002 From: TaintedTattoo at aol.com (TaintedTattoo@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:33 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: <51.28910046.2b2a32a9@aol.com> mkd8@cornell.edu wrote: > Um, the clan champion? In a feudal system, especially one based on service > as Rokugan is, and without an Emperor on the throne, the Clan Champion is > the ultimate guide as to right and wrong for a clan. Opposing him is > wrong. If you disagree with him, sepukku is an acceptable alternative. > > Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) > Dragon Clan Alchemist ? Shugenja ? Jade Hand Scribe ? Self-appointed Yu > Master > "Death! Destruction! KITTENS!!!" - allegedly Mirumoto Junnosuke, right > before executing his famed "kitten maneuver" at the massacre of Happy > Children Village. > http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 What about the Agasha? What about Mitsu? Seppuku for him? What about Hoshi? Seppuku for him? What about Daini? Kaelung? Hitomi Hakene Dragon Clan Tattooed Shadowlands Madman "Sometimes you must embrace the darkness to ascend in light." Visit Shrine of the new Moon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021212/358ed05d/attachment.html From mkd8 at cornell.edu Thu Dec 12 13:54:01 2002 From: mkd8 at cornell.edu (Matt Dalen) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:33 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin In-Reply-To: <51.28910046.2b2a32a9@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021212135103.06d4c040@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> At 01:42 PM 12/12/2002 -0500, you wrote: >mkd8@cornell.edu wrote: > > >>Um, the clan champion? In a feudal system, especially one based on service >>as Rokugan is, and without an Emperor on the throne, the Clan Champion is >>the ultimate guide as to right and wrong for a clan. Opposing him is >>wrong. If you disagree with him, sepukku is an acceptable alternative. > > >What about the Agasha? There are many who feel that the original Agasha *should* have committed seppuku for their betrayal. >What about Mitsu? Mitsu never defied the Clan Champion. >What about Hoshi? Hoshi was explicitly granted leniency by Hitomi. >What about Daini? Daini's a little punk. He deserves an @$$-kicking. >Kaelung? Kaelung merely left the clan to become a monk in solitude. This is not explicitly disobeying his clan champion. >Hitomi Hakene Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) Dragon Clan Alchemist ? Shugenja ? Jade Hand Scribe ? Self-appointed Yu Master "Fear the jade flames of my potions, Dark Oracle. You will die for your betrayal!" http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 From mkd8 at cornell.edu Thu Dec 12 14:11:19 2002 From: mkd8 at cornell.edu (Matt Dalen) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:34 2003 Subject: [dragon] Honorable tattooed attack deck In-Reply-To: <015601c2a1e2$3b8862f0$b75a030a@helia.amk> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021209140620.0778ce48@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20021210092000.00cadb08@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021212140056.06d6ee88@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> At 02:16 PM 12/12/2002 +0200, you wrote: >The problem with all these "drawing a card during the action phase" tricks >is the >fact that you _have_ to use those cards immideately or during the upcoming >attack phase. > >If you use all of those cards for pumps, you have no options left in your >hand >to guard against your opponents actions. This is why a water deck is the best way to go for this - you don't have to deal with your opponent's actions. You assume that the tattoos and the followers you're attaching are going to be enough, and you try and be where they aren't. >OtOH, if you don't use them, your >opponent might end the battle action action phase before you can unload all >those cards, thus denying you the RoV draw. Sometimes that does happen, but not as often as all that. The only real ways to end a battle action phase are Deadly Ground, Torrential Rain, and Flattery. All of those can be circumvented by movement tricks. If you're really worried about torrential rain, use unraveling. Sup Tactics is there for Deadly, and Flattery is *very* card intensive. >The funny thing is that Tattoos are the perfect counter to this, giving a >host of >actions you can take after emptying your hand, it's just that Tattoos are >not >powerful enough for this to be worthwhile. (At the moment, though I don't >think that will ever change for the better.) I'd disagree... Mountain Tattoo is like a reusable charge. Hummingbird is a mini-rally for the personality (I usually put it on the guy with the clan sword). Wave is a mini-rally, which has the added advantage of negating the effects of bowing during the limited phase. Naga is great for movement. The loss of force has, so far, been relatively insignificant for me. Snake is useful as a method of movement. You've got to think: when are you going to want to move out of a battle? a) when they have larger force than you, or b) when they're using tricks to lower your force and PK you. If they have larger force than you, then snake tattoo doesn't help. But if they're going to try to use tricks on you, Snake will cancel the trick, make it impossible for them to do again, and you can now move the rest of your army in to assist the Snake guy. Hurricane is only useful against military decks, but it can be devastating to a follower deck, especially if the two of you are spending all of your time building up. Dragon isn't as useful early game, but when you're doing one final, cataclysmic battle, the extra 3 force can be highly useful. All of these combined can give a very helpful toolset. It's not top-tier yet, but with only a little help, I think it could be. Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) Dragon Clan Alchemist ? Shugenja ? Jade Hand Scribe ? Self-appointed Yu Master "Death! Destruction! KITTENS!!!" - allegedly Mirumoto Junnosuke, right before executing his famed "kitten maneuver" at the massacre of Happy Children Village. http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 From TaintedTattoo at aol.com Thu Dec 12 17:01:13 2002 From: TaintedTattoo at aol.com (TaintedTattoo@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:34 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: <152.18c8a510.2b2a6129@aol.com> mkd8@cornell.edu wrote: > Peace is never worth enslavement. I'd much rather have a free mind and > have to fight occasionally than be enslaved and at peace. > > Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) > Dragon Clan Alchemist ? Shugenja ? Jade Hand Scribe ? Self-appointed Yu > Master > "Fear the jade flames of my potions, Dark Oracle. You will die for your > betrayal!" > http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 But what is your freedom in the empire worth? "Um, the clan champion? In a feudal system, especially one based on service as Rokugan is, and without an Emperor on the throne, the Clan Champion is the ultimate guide as to right and wrong for a clan. Opposing him is wrong. If you disagree with him, sepukku is an acceptable alternative." According to your words I have my free will but I have to obey to my daimyo. But where is the difference to the shadowlands. And please remember that the slavemind times in the shadowlands are allmost over. Most of the lost have a free will. Hitomi Hakene Dragon Clan Tattooed Shadowlands Madman "Sometimes you must embrace the darkness to ascend in light." Visit Shrine of the new Moon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021212/35660808/attachment.html From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Thu Dec 12 22:12:44 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:34 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: Greetings, >From: TaintedTattoo@aol.com > >I don=B4t know if I am serious, but perhaps we should waste some time fo= r=20 >this >to think about. What will change for our clan if the shadowlands rule? >Would it be better or worse. >I am scared that I really don=B4t know. Then be scared, be very scared ;). Things like free will and not being a slave are kinda important to me. >Right now the shadowlands are united >and don=B4t fight against each other. And what does the empire? We figh= t=20 >each >other to the last man, no one wants to see that something good happens t= o >another one. And in the past we have been united and the Shadowlands have been at war.= =20 You are judging groups based upon one criteria and at one singular moment= =20 here. >I don=B4t see much difference between the shadowlands and us. And maybe that is why you should read the RPG books so you can see a=20 difference, neh? I mean seriously Hakene, this is just what I was so tes= ty=20 about with Ben. You are clogging up the list with *your* hypotheseis and= =20 you are leaving out any supporting canon material. A perfect example is = the=20 disobedience to your Clan Champion thread where Matt (I believe it was Ma= tt)=20 took each of your examples and gave you the correct canon response. You are welcome to your opinions, but expect to get drilled when you star= t=20 floating them publically and have nothing to support them but your desire= s=20 :(. >They are killing >there enemys, we do the same. It=B4s war, but I can=B4t tell any longer = who is >the aggressor. Yes, they have invaded our lands, but didn=B4t we do the = same? >Could it be that peace is worth surrender to the shadowlands? Two words, Neville Chamberlin. Your even German, so you should get this = one=20 easy. Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.=20 http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/featuredemail From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Thu Dec 12 22:49:57 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:34 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: Greetings, >From: TaintedTattoo@aol.com >And please remember that the >slavemind times in the shadowlands are allmost over. Most of the lost have >a >free will. REALLY? First off if things here were as rigid as you claim they are, then why haven't you commited seppuku alreay for having and embracing the Taint against Hoshi's orders ;)? Seriously though, if you are going to voice such claims you are going to have to get used to imitating a pinyata, or back it up with some canon evidence. I certainly do not agree with what you say, although maybe something has been posted to support your claim. I will warn you it better be some pretty current concrete stuff cause here is some dated concrete evidence I found to answer this question... Pg 23 Way of the Shadowlands; most of the second paragraph to the chapter entitled the Lost: "Those who are infected with the Taint are transformed body and soul by the power of corruption. The Tainted are often ostricized, as their hideous appearance and unseemly behavior cause other Rokugani to keep their distance. Fu Leng knows his enemy well and this ostracism is indeed the purpose of the Taint. Once a victim has no one else to turn to, Fu Leng begins to seem a welcome alternative. those who succumb to the temptation become Lost, damned souls seething with corruption. The Lost no longer control their own destiny, but serve Fu Leng as willing minions." So please, pretty please, no more hypothesis or wild conjecture. Post some supporting documentation or stop. Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From barryakunz at hotmail.com Thu Dec 12 18:09:35 2002 From: barryakunz at hotmail.com (Barry Kunz) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:34 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: >From: "Rob Bowman" > >Greetings, > >>From: TaintedTattoo@aol.com > > >So please, pretty please, no more hypothesis or wild conjecture. Post some >supporting documentation or stop. Wild conjecture will continue without supporting documentation because this is what happens when someone doesn't have a leg to stand on. I'm convinced of this which is why I no longer care about Hakene's story posts. If he doesn't care enough to put time into them to be convincing or at least offer up somewhat valid points as Ben did at one time, then I no longer care to pay them much attention. To me, everything that's been posted recently by him is merely done so to get ANY response. It is not done to engage in a meaningfull discussion. He claims to ask 'serious' questions about why we fight the shadowlands when he doesn't even take the time to ponder them himself. Point being that he will never go toe to toe with you(or anyone else) in a real argument concerning Dragon and the taint because he can't. His defense will always be "This is how I feel" or "This is what the dragon is for my IC personality." or "This is my opinion" stated like cannon fact. Bless you Rob for still bothering because goodness knows I no longer care where Hakene is concerned.:( >Take care, >Rob- Mirumoto Shokan Barry Kunz Togashi Zembu Herald of the New Dawn _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From chron_d at hotmail.com Thu Dec 12 23:16:25 2002 From: chron_d at hotmail.com (Chrondeath Dracion) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:34 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: "Rob Bowman" wrote: > >2) They want to take over our Empire. Proof- Pg 234 Oriental >Adventures "If the hordes of the Shadowlands have their way, no >Emporer will ever again sit on the throne of rokugan.". Maybe they're going to do away with hereditary leaders (which can cause succession problems like those we are having now, or difficulties when emperors come to power too young and are controlled by other influential forces like...hmm...Fu Leng?) and install a new political system in which all Rokugani are equal and no one emperor rules the land? Just kidding! +--+ |\/| -Mirumoto Kharon |/\| chron_d@hotmail.com +--+ Telekinesis: It's the thought that counts. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Thu Dec 12 23:30:12 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:34 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: Greetings, >From: "Barry Kunz" >Bless you Rob for still bothering because goodness knows I no longer care >where Hakene is concerned.:( Thank you for the kind words Zembu-san. I couldn't agree with you more about Hakene, and in all truth I had to retype that last sentence three times to even get close to a polite tone. The truth of why I bother is simple. I do it for every new guy/gal here on the list. I do not want any of them taking any nonsense as canon. I may be a senseii or I may be an ass in their eyes, but making sure that everyone gets the "facts" concering Rokugan is important imho. Choose whatever you want and be happy with that choice, just do it with some knowledge and dignity like Akagi for Kami's sake. As always, ymmv. Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From andrew at dragonstone.com Thu Dec 12 15:29:37 2002 From: andrew at dragonstone.com (Andrew Garrett) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:34 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin References: Message-ID: <017101c2a236$55f5eff0$6801a8c0@andrew> > Seriously though, if you are going to voice such claims you are going to > have to get used to imitating a pinyata, or back it up with some canon > evidence. I certainly do not agree with what you say, although maybe > something has been posted to support your claim. I will warn you it better > be some pretty current concrete stuff cause here is some dated concrete > evidence I found to answer this question... > > Pg 23 Way of the Shadowlands; most of the second paragraph to the chapter > entitled the Lost: > > "Those who are infected with the Taint are transformed body and soul by the > power of corruption. The Tainted are often ostricized, as their hideous > appearance and unseemly behavior cause other Rokugani to keep their > distance. Fu Leng knows his enemy well and this ostracism is indeed the > purpose of the Taint. Once a victim has no one else to turn to, Fu Leng > begins to seem a welcome alternative. those who succumb to the temptation > become Lost, damned souls seething with corruption. The Lost no longer > control their own destiny, but serve Fu Leng as willing minions." I hate to be the one to back up Hakane, but his conjecture is backed up by some source material. Specifically, BloodTies, from the Imperial Herald. When Shahai found Daigotsu in the Shadowlands, she found the Lost acting distinctly un-Lost-like... While the entire story backs up Hakane, this particular quote crystalizes the difference: "Shahai's eyes narrowed. "You wear no jade,'?~she observed. "Are you a fool? This deep in the ~ Shadowlands, with no jade, your soul may already be Lost." "Much as these men and women are Lost, I imagine," Daigotsu said. "These are not the Shadowlands madmen of old. They are samurai. The Shadowlands have changed, adapted. Hellish Jigoku has recognized the ways of its enemy. Only through organization can we truly destroy the Empire. Only by becoming a reflection of Rokugan may we tear the clans apart. What you see here is the beginning of the new way. Twenty miles from here, the Lost have built a city, a palace to rival Otosan Uchi's. Miles from here, our Kaiu engineers have begun construction on a wall to defend us from the incursions of the meddlesome Hiruma. Soon we will be a dark reflection of Rokugan, but stronger. I shall lead the Shadowlands to a new era of greatness."" Note - this source is more recent than Way of the Shadowlands, and reflects its new lord. It may reasonably be held to supercede the older source. It hardly spells out the details in near as much detail as your own source, I grant. But it does seem to indicate a large shift in the way the Lost are treated. It is worth considering. Kitsuki Hayato Dragon Clan Seeker of Enlightnment From mkd8 at cornell.edu Thu Dec 12 18:44:11 2002 From: mkd8 at cornell.edu (Matt Dalen) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:34 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin In-Reply-To: <017101c2a236$55f5eff0$6801a8c0@andrew> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021212184030.06d8a4d0@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> >"Much as these men and women are Lost, I imagine," Daigotsu said. "These are >not the Shadowlands madmen of old. They are samurai. The Shadowlands have >changed, adapted. Hellish Jigoku has recognized the ways of its enemy. Only >through organization can we truly destroy the Empire. Only by becoming a >reflection of Rokugan may we tear the clans apart. What you see here is the >beginning of the new way. Twenty miles from here, the Lost have built a >city, a palace to rival Otosan Uchi's. Miles from here, our Kaiu engineers >have begun construction on a wall to defend us from the incursions of the >meddlesome Hiruma. Soon we will be a dark reflection of Rokugan, but >stronger. I shall lead the Shadowlands to a new era of greatness."" Note that he says that "Hellish Jigoku has recognized the ways of its enemy." Jigoku hasn't given up on enslaving everyone, it's just accepted that organization is a good thing, so it's giving the Lost some leeway. This doesn't mean that Jigoku no longer controls them - I'm sure that it controls them enough to make sure its interests are kept. Yes, they are no longer puppets, they are more like favored slaves - given some freedom to do what they want, but still ultimately slaves to Jigoku. > Kitsuki Hayato > Dragon Clan Seeker of Enlightnment Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) Dragon Clan Alchemist ? Shugenja ? Jade Hand Scribe ? Self-appointed Yu Master "Fear the jade flames of my potions, Dark Oracle. You will die for your betrayal!" http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Thu Dec 12 23:53:26 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:34 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: Greetings, Hayato-san, domo for the elightenment... . I still fail to quite make the leap though. In your passgae Diagotsu acknowledges the differences in organization, and comments on mirroring Rokugan. Still I see nothing indicating free will. Am I missing something because I do not see a new organization and free will as quite the same? And as for Diagotsu not wearing jade, well according to the Rokugan book he is an "outsider", not a human. So I don't think the standard rules apply to him. The Rokugan book pretty much confirms this on Pg 166 when it says "Not much is know about the new Lord of the Shadowlands." The book also mentions on Pg 167 that "Those who defy him are destroyed. No exceptions." So I guess I am still skeptical of the free will thing. Anything else I am missing? Domo again. Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From mkd8 at cornell.edu Thu Dec 12 19:07:55 2002 From: mkd8 at cornell.edu (Matt Dalen) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:34 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021212190012.06d59d70@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> At 11:53 PM 12/12/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Greetings, > >Hayato-san, domo for the elightenment... . > >I still fail to quite make the leap though. In your passgae Diagotsu >acknowledges the differences in organization, and comments on mirroring >Rokugan. Still I see nothing indicating free will. Am I missing >something because I do not see a new organization and free will as quite >the same? They're organized and have *very limited* free will. This makes them much more dangerous. >And as for Diagotsu not wearing jade, well according to the Rokugan book >he is an "outsider", not a human. So I don't think the standard rules >apply to him. The Rokugan book pretty much confirms this on Pg 166 when >it says "Not much is know about the new Lord of the Shadowlands." The >book also mentions on Pg 167 that "Those who defy him are destroyed. No >exceptions." In the Fall of Otosan Uchi story, it tells Daigostu's Origins: S P O I L E R S P A C E Daigotsu was the child of the kidnapped Empress, unborn when she was kidnapped. When he was born, the bloodspeakers used a unique ritual to bind him body and soul to an unnamed oni. This had only been attempted twice before - once with an abducted child named Omoni, where they failed and accidentally bound him to the spirit of a bakemono, and once with the child of Yotsu, who had replaced his brother in the abduction, who eventually grew up to become Goju Kyoden. After the summoning, the three of them travelled to Jigoku, where they spent most of the Clan War and Hidden Emperor story arcs. Thus, Daigotsu is only half human, and is very powerful, but since part of him is oni, he doesn't wear jade. He can stand touching it for at least short periods of time because of his human side, however, as is shown when he crushes Kuon's hammer (shown, I believe, on the spell Inspiration). Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) Dragon Clan Alchemist ? Shugenja ? Jade Hand Scribe ? Self-appointed Yu Master "Fear the jade flames of my potions, Dark Oracle. You will die for your betrayal!" http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 From togashi_akagi at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 02:49:50 2002 From: togashi_akagi at hotmail.com (akagi togashi) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:34 2003 Subject: [dragon] A Question Message-ID: >I have a question...where does it say that Kokujin is using the daisho to >help him stave off the taint? I have yet to see any stories or official >story team posts that would implicate this. As far as i can tell, this >idea sprouted up with the Omen story, and has quickly been adopted as canon >by the fans... > >I am quite willing to believe that I am wrong on this one, I would just >like to know where and/or when this concept became official... Kokujin uses the souls that he steals to power his kiho rather than expend his own inner energy in the process. Togashi's daisho doesn't specifically fight taint, but drawing on it's power makes it easier for kokujin to use his own kiho to do so. I haven't yet seen this appear in print yet, however this was stright from Rich when I spoke with him via email. This exsisted well before the omen story, though i can see parrellels. The differance is that omen's weapon actually absorbs the taint, togashi's daisho doesn't directly do anything, but rather works as a superbattery. (which causes me to wonder if kokujin hasn't drained them completely, hence his motive to give them back) Besides what else is he going to do with hundereds of extra stolen souls? ;) It is offical, and I'd expect that we'll see it explained more as teh fic unfolds further. Akagi _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From jake2002 at sio.midco.net Thu Dec 12 21:46:55 2002 From: jake2002 at sio.midco.net (Eric Jacobson) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:34 2003 Subject: [dragon] Water Military revelation References: <5145C4CE-0CF5-11D7-B3F7-003065E72BF2@metrocast.net> Message-ID: <000b01c2a25a$484c1fe0$ae92dc18@midco.net> > You may recall that I profess a large amount of experience with a > Dragon archetype which I refer to as Tattooed Water Military. This > archetype is, in essense, avoidance speed military. It relies upon > movement (Naga Tattoo, Sup Tacts, Gift o/t Water Dragon, etc) and an > uber-unit to take undefended Provinces. Ideally, the deck takes a > Province on turn 3, and sometimes on turn 2. The archetype utilizes > monks and Tattooed Personalities, along with Followers, to move, gain > enough Force to take Provinces, and to generally be very slippery. > Yes, and tasty too! > The two biggest weaknesses of this deck (and one exacerbates the > other) are the inherent weakness in any uber-unit (so much resource, if > destroyed, is a huge loss), and the fact that the deck falls apart when > it has to face defenders in mid-game. Late-game, it tends to be huge > and sick enough (provided a healthy development) to be able to pull out > a big final battle. But during the middle game, when the opponent has > plenty of defenders such that you won't be able to find an undefended, > or weakly-defended, Province to move into. This right here is the most > pronounced downfall of the archetype. > Exactly what I have found. I love this deck style, but find that Lion, Crab, and Crane can all do exactly that to our decks on a decent to good start. > I think that I've discovered a way to counteract this. It involves > one Personality, a couple copies of a particular Tattoo or two, a > couple copies of an Item, and a couple of Kiho. I will simply list them > below, because I'm sure that you will draw the connections on your own. > > Togashi Chuichi > Spider Tattoo x2 or x3 > Wave Tattoo > Footman's Yari x2 or x3 > Purity of Shinsei x2 or x3 > Palm Strike x2 or x3 > Fist of Osano-Wo x2 or x3 > Of course, these are great, but we already have so much put in to develop the speed power and movement that we don't want to water it down any. I think we've been handed our best tool for this type of deck in FoU: Hurricane Tattoo. Of course, Palm Strike is awesome and should be in there. I plan to use a simple 6 cards to make it to a final battle as quickly as possible. Aid of the Grand Master x3 (useful on their own), Ring of Water, and Finding the Harmony x2. If we can't get Void back into play the turn we slap down Ring of Water with Finding, we don't deserve it. Enlightenment is really cool. Sometimes, I just like to rip off people's heads and shove them down their throat. Metaphorically speaking. Hitomi Jaek Dragon Clan Laughseeker * Shugenja * Monk * Tattooed "You know you're overly analytical when someone says, 'You think too much!' and you ask, 'What does that mean?'" From box at metrocast.net Fri Dec 13 00:53:51 2002 From: box at metrocast.net (Mister Stuff) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:34 2003 Subject: [dragon] Water Military revelation In-Reply-To: <000b01c2a25a$484c1fe0$ae92dc18@midco.net> Message-ID: <66F17E9A-0E78-11D7-9BE6-003065E72BF2@metrocast.net> On Thursday, December 12, 2002, at 07:46 PM, Eric Jacobson wrote: > Ring of Water, and Finding the > Harmony x2. If we can't get Void back into play the turn we slap down > Ring > of Water with Finding, we don't deserve it. He's not really suited for this type of deck, but Hoshi Tadao has a very interesting ability, too ... -T Togashi Ashido Dragon Clan Monk * Tattooed * Experienced The Wandering Monk * Unique From RatEmperor at aol.com Fri Dec 13 03:08:15 2002 From: RatEmperor at aol.com (RatEmperor@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:34 2003 Subject: [dragon] A Question Message-ID: <67CADE8F.00671A04.0C6F337D@aol.com> In a message dated 12/12/2002 9:49:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, togashi_akagi@hotmail.com writes: > >I have a question...where does it say that Kokujin is using the daisho to > >help him stave off the taint? I have yet to see any stories or official > >story team posts that would implicate this. As far as i can tell, this > >idea sprouted up with the Omen story, and has quickly been adopted as canon > >by the fans... > > > >I am quite willing to believe that I am wrong on this one, I would just > >like to know where and/or when this concept became official... > > Kokujin uses the souls that he steals to power his kiho rather than expend > his own inner energy in the process. Togashi's daisho doesn't specifically > fight taint, but drawing on it's power makes it easier for kokujin to use > his own kiho to do so. I haven't yet seen this appear in print yet, however > this was stright from Rich when I spoke with him via email. This exsisted > well before the omen story, though i can see parrellels. The differance is > that omen's weapon actually absorbs the taint, togashi's daisho doesn't > directly do anything, but rather works as a superbattery. (which causes me > to wonder if kokujin hasn't drained them completely, hence his motive to > give them back) > > Besides what else is he going to do with hundereds of extra stolen souls? ;) > > It is offical, and I'd expect that we'll see it explained > more as teh fic > unfolds further. > > Akagi Fair enough...just wanted some certainty on the subject As for a use for stolen souls, maybe he wants to make shoes? Kchat'Arak Ise Nezumi From gaidin71 at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 10:13:58 2002 From: gaidin71 at hotmail.com (Michael Iakovides) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:34 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: Hm. You should have taken a clue from the fact that Hakene is still discussing with me, and not flaming or swearing yet. In real life I am very passionate about this subject, and if you think I am self righteous, that is your right. This whole discussion is about storyline reasons behind playing the game and whether the concept of playing Tainted Dragon is viable under the following circumstances: a)Declaring that you are actually serving the Clan that you originate from, and not the taint, and in effect Jigoku and Fu Leng. b)Whether Kokujin and Taki can be classified as Dragon personalities, and any other such personalities c)Whether these concepts can be substantiated with storyline material or not(otherwise I could say my character is actually the Fifth Wind or some other such statement). Btw, let me state that I dislike people who argue like you, with a veneer of liberalism, and do not allow people to express themselves. Hakene does have the courage of his convicion, and even more so akagi togashi. Hakene has the right to believe that Tainted Dragon are Dragon players. My point of view that this is not the case, and that Tainted players are in effect Shadowlands players off the Dragon boxes. Why should I not have the right to express my point of view? I am not pointing a gun to anyone's head, and anyone who does not like my point of view, can gues what?DISAGREE.It is that simple.You impose your ideals upon others when you forcibly change them, or refuse to allow them to express themselves. Kinda like what you are trying to do right now.But since I disagree with you, I will not:). And btw,like I said this discussion is not based on card game mechanics, but on storyline.The Imperial Assembly is an organization of players, not of characters. As Michael I consider myself 150% Dragon, and I merely intend to play out Mirumoto Izo as I have agreed. It is very hard to do anything from Greece about Imperial Assembly, and by the time I got it sorted out, I would have to change back again. A fitting statement would be to dedicate my wins to Shadowlands, but I cannot change my points to Shadowlands, since I am playing with Dragon and including Tainted cards.Otherwise, I would play Kosaten Shiro, and declare that I am a Dragon player. Organized Play and AEG are kinda pesky that way. Regards, Michael Iakovides Mirumoto Izo Tainted Tattoed Samurai >Bull Shit. > >For someone who writes this clear and well argumented text, you have really >selfrighteous attitudes. > >You have no right to tell anyone what clan they belong to. No one is a >Shadowlands player just because they put cards with the Shadowlands >trait in their decks. Every player has his own ideal about whether they >belong in a clan or not, and why their "alignement" is whatever it is. >Don't impose your ideals on others. > >BTW, are you a member of the Imperial Assembly? If so, have you >changed your membership to a Shadowlands membership? > _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From gaidin71 at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 10:16:05 2002 From: gaidin71 at hotmail.com (Michael Iakovides) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:35 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) Message-ID: That is the whole point guys.Kobai is not an evil traitor. He is a tragic figure, worthy of pity. He went to try and retrieve our Kami's daisho from Kokujin. He failed, and became tainted, and under Kokujin's control. The entity we knew as Kobai died then. Now he is simply a pawn of Jigoku, or Kokujin(open to debate)... >Kobai Is an evil twisted traitor who should be hung at tratiors grove or on >the front of kyuden hitomi for betrayl.Of course that does not sound too >civilized either but i still hate the taint. Lady Hitomi whould strike him >down herself for such a traitorus act! > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From gaidin71 at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 10:44:04 2002 From: gaidin71 at hotmail.com (Michael Iakovides) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:35 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: There is a grave misconception here. Like I stated from the cannon material, Taint is an INTELLIGENT force. That is the main difference between the Gold storyline arc, and why Rich has taken the storyline to a higher plane of existence, and made the Shadowlands a force to be reckoned with, rather than an assortment of monsters and freaks that they used to be. All of the Lost get the benefits of the taint (more strength, maho spells,etc etc.).However, Fu Leng and Jigoku are NOT stupid. They know a good thing when they see it. And Daigotsu is a good thing for the Shadowlands. He is intelligent, and dangerous as a shark, and he offers sound strategies where the old Oni smash kill ones failed. Human innovation and guiding will to the Evil that is the Taint is the new model. Think of going from Texas Chainsaw massacre to Hannibal Lektor. That does not mean that the control of the taint is any less on the Lost. It merely means that it gives them a firm set of parameters(serve Jigoku and Fu Leng), and leaves them to accomplish their goals with the most dangerous weapons in their repertoire: cunning and innovation. Regards, Michael Iakovides Mirumoto Izo Tainted Tattoed Samurai > > "Those who are infected with the Taint are transformed body and soul by >the > > power of corruption. The Tainted are often ostricized, as their hideous > > appearance and unseemly behavior cause other Rokugani to keep their > > distance. Fu Leng knows his enemy well and this ostracism is indeed the > > purpose of the Taint. Once a victim has no one else to turn to, Fu Leng > > begins to seem a welcome alternative. those who succumb to the >temptation > > become Lost, damned souls seething with corruption. The Lost no longer > > control their own destiny, but serve Fu Leng as willing minions." > > I hate to be the one to back up Hakane, but his conjecture is backed up >by >some source material. Specifically, BloodTies, from the Imperial Herald. >When Shahai found Daigotsu in the Shadowlands, she found the Lost acting >distinctly un-Lost-like... While the entire story backs up Hakane, this >particular quote crystalizes the difference: > > "Shahai's eyes narrowed. "You wear no jade,'§~she observed. "Are you a >fool? This deep in the ~ Shadowlands, with no jade, your soul may already >be >Lost." > >"Much as these men and women are Lost, I imagine," Daigotsu said. "These >are >not the Shadowlands madmen of old. They are samurai. The Shadowlands have >changed, adapted. Hellish Jigoku has recognized the ways of its enemy. Only >through organization can we truly destroy the Empire. Only by becoming a >reflection of Rokugan may we tear the clans apart. What you see here is the >beginning of the new way. Twenty miles from here, the Lost have built a >city, a palace to rival Otosan Uchi's. Miles from here, our Kaiu engineers >have begun construction on a wall to defend us from the incursions of the >meddlesome Hiruma. Soon we will be a dark reflection of Rokugan, but >stronger. I shall lead the Shadowlands to a new era of greatness."" > > Note - this source is more recent than Way of the Shadowlands, and >reflects its new lord. It may reasonably be held to supercede the older >source. It hardly spells out the details in near as much detail as your own >source, I grant. But it does seem to indicate a large shift in the way the >Lost are treated. It is worth considering. > > Kitsuki Hayato > Dragon Clan Seeker of Enlightnment > > >_______________________________________________ >Dragon mailing list >Dragon@michonline.com >http://michonline.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dragon _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From togashilove at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 14:06:41 2002 From: togashilove at hotmail.com (John Panagiotakis) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:35 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: Greetings, >From: "Anssi Ramela" > >Bull Shit. Since when did this list sank down to that level? 8= Ha??? What next? Are we going to draw our swords...? >For someone who writes this clear and well argumented text, you have > >really selfrighteous attitudes. I know Michael personally so allow me to have my own opinion on that. 8) >You have no right to tell anyone what clan they belong to. No one is a >Shadowlands player just because they put cards with the Shadowlands >trait in their decks. Every player has his own ideal about whether they >belong in a clan or not, and why their "alignement" is whatever it is. >Don't impose your ideals on others. Michael is one of the few (at least where we live) with liberal ideas about dragons chosing the dark path. He *never* imposes them on others and in this case he merely stated his opinion in great length. I, for one, am not so democratic about such matters...8) >Anssi Ramela ___Togashi Agozatsu___ *Dragon Clan Samurai*Monk*Tattooed* Acolyte_of_Maths*Storyteller*exp* *Will only join the Dragon or Scorpion clan* "Each path that is true is dangerous. If there is no one to bar your way, no challenge to overcome, then you know that the choice is honorless." -Hitomi ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From togashi_akagi at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 13:27:40 2002 From: togashi_akagi at hotmail.com (akagi togashi) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:35 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) Message-ID: < Both your posts have been excellent Akagi-san, and I must admit have made me see Kokujin's character in a new light(I still a fanatic supporter of pure Dragons, but I agree to your perspective of him- an interesting one in the way he seeks a perverse enlightenment).You truly make a case for a fraction that mirrors the Dragon, but is anathema to all that the Dragon hold dear. It is the antithesis of all that is the Dragon,with similar techniques and make wonderful and believable opponents (along with the Phoenix, Shadowlands, Dark Oracle of Fire- we are definitely overworked:))). There is however one catch, to applying the arguement for Kokujin to others. Kokujin's path and powers, are an abberation, the exception that proves the rule, a statistical inevitability(taking a large enough sample, even the most improbable things will probably happen once:). a)he was tattoed, and then fell to the tattoed madness. b)he contacted the Shadow, as shown in the last letter from the Race to Volturnum, a connection which was left unclarified. c) He gained Taint, and he used kihos and other tricks to keep himself in control. d)He employed Togashi's daisho to the same effect. Now Kokujin is interested in his personal path to enlightenment(or de-illumination as some might see it:). All that serve him, are slaves. This is debatable, but I think there is proof of this: Kobai. Now Kobai wanted to kill Kokujin with all his heart, as shown in the Dragon letter for Race to Volturnuum. He would have chosen death over any other choice(that is my own take on Kobai's character). Therefore, one can only assume that he has been forcefully converted, and even if Kokujin did reveal his secrets, and the way he keeps the taint at bay(in my personal view, the conditions cannot be duplicated for others, due to the uniqueness of Kokujin, but this is subject to debate), he would still not be free of will, but Kokujin's pawn. Eitherway, I would have to say, that for all intended purposes, those who serve Kokujin, are Dragons no more, but followers of Kokujin (sort of like a cult).Therefore, I must still say that in my personal view, one cannot play Tainted Dragon, and say he serves the Clan in any effective way, unless the goals of our Clan, match those of Kokujin in some way. And maybe sunconsciously, Kokujin craves the understanding of his former brothers and sisters of the Dragon I must admit that your insights on Kokujin make him a much more interesting dramatis persona and villain, rather than the carricature he seems to be at first sight. Regards, Michael Iakovides Mirumoto Izo Tainted Tattoed Samurai ><morals of leaders here okay. And for the record, the simple fact you could >even make the suggestion that the "sacrifices" of Kokujin vs the Sacrifices >of Yokuni are anything similar tells me a lot about your perspective. > ><his little personal tool. Wow, what a big sacrifice on his part ;). > ><<< Yokuni *asks* his loyal follers to lay down their life for the good of >the Empire, as in Mirumoto Satsu. Note he *asked*, and if you think that is >horrible, understand a good leader never asks his men/women to do anything >he would not do. Which is exactly what he did come DoT, He sacrificed his >life to give all of us a chance to continue little debates like this, and >allow you the freedom to choose :). > >~Actually they are a bit more alike then you'd suggest, while Yokuni asks >his followers to make sacrifices he does so in a manner that leaves little >outside choice, other than to comply with the "request". Case being the >process of becoming ise zumi, which is what caused kokujin to walk the road >he does. When a person is subjected to becoming an ise zumi they lose part >of their mortality and exhange it with part of the dragon and celestrial >heaven. > >No matter how much a person believes themself to be prepared for it, there >is nothing they can compare it to, and there is no way they can understand >the gravity of the choice before it's made. In essence it's being asked if >you are willing to take a step while you are blind folded standing on the >edge of a great cliff (without knowing). The ise zumi complies because >they'v taken steps before, but the the depth that this final step entails >is far beyond mortal comprehension. Only once the step is made plunging the >ise zumi into a new world can they even begin to understand what they've >just done. > >Now in most cases the ise zumi are bound to Yokuni/hitomi/hoshi during this >process, and follow their will loyally. However in kokujin's case he saw >this as the ultimate deceptive ruse and refused to be apart of Togashi's >wishes. Humanity, and human destiny is precious beyond measure, a gift that >no creature of the heavens can share for it belongs to men alone in >exchange for the weight/price of being mortal. He saw Togashi as a theif >stealing the destiny of those "willing" to take his blood in ignorance of >what it actually condemned them to. > >It takes a lot of guts (even if deranged) to stand against the wishes of a >god/kami. (especially when their blood flows in your veins) > > ><< > >~Without fail, enlightenment. He is not moral in the least but he is driven >by what all true dragons are, the path of enlightenment. His is not a happy >sun filled path, rather a dark one that's blood soaked. However as shinsei >himself said, there is no set path to fiding enlightenment, if you follow >only the footsteps of others you cannot find your own way. As brutal and >evil as he is, kokujin walks his own way. (which is why I consider him a >dragon, even though he doesn't benefit the clan in the least) > > ><<out how evil Kokujin is with a specific example (and please refer to some >of the other great posts listing many more of Kokujin evil acts). I am >also asking when Kokujin has ever acted "good"? > >~Good and evil are very subjective in the rokugan, one can be "evil" to the >core yet hold great honor. (Doji Satsume, Seppun Toshiken) Being without >honor is considered to be the greatest evil, by default shadowlands are >considered to be without honor hence evil within the rokugan's view. >However even that is not set in stone, some that fall to the shadowlands >still hold great honor, Isawa Tadaka, Akodo Godaigo. They are very few >indeed but I bring them into this simply to illustrate that not everything >is as black and white as we'd like. > >As far as "good" actions, kokujin *did* teach Hitomi what she needed. It >may have caused great problems within the clan but he was the only one that >could grant her that knowledge. (even if some would consider it flawed) >Without that knowledge she could not have taken the steps to fight the >moon, and perhaps that was togashi's role for kokujin sicne the beginning. >In many ways the end justifies the means when dealing with togashi (on a >fate level) > >I hold a great amount of fascination with Togashi's character, yet I also >question the "free will" his ise zumi supposedly actually have. > >Akagi - beaer of the gaki tattoo > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > >_______________________________________________ >Dragon mailing list >Dragon@michonline.com >http://michonline.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dragon _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From gaidin71 at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 14:10:01 2002 From: gaidin71 at hotmail.com (Michael Iakovides) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:35 2003 Subject: [dragon] A Question Message-ID: In a discussion me and Hakene had with Rich Wulf in Metz, he confirmed that one of the factors that help Kokujin stave off the Taint is the daisho. That I would reckon is one of the reasons he does not use the anvil of despair on it:). Regards, Michael Iakovides Mirumoto Izo Tainted Tattoed Samurai >I have a question...where does it say that Kokujin is using the daisho to >help him stave off the taint? I have yet to see any stories or official >story team posts that would implicate this. As far as i can tell, this >idea sprouted up with the Omen story, and has quickly been adopted as canon >by the fans... > >I am quite willing to believe that I am wrong on this one, I would just >like to know where and/or when this concept became official... _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From ramela at cs.helsinki.fi Fri Dec 13 18:04:03 2002 From: ramela at cs.helsinki.fi (Anssi Ramela) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:35 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin References: Message-ID: <3DFA04F3.7080706@cs.helsinki.fi> Rob Bowman wrote: >> >> How do you know that Kokujin is not one of them? IMO we won't know until >> the storyteam outright tell us whether he is or not. > > > Uhm, Pg 82 of "The Way of the Shadowlands"- "Now he possessed Fu Leng's > Secrets as well, and two gods were his dupes. Kokujin served no master > but himself." So, If I'm not mistaken, canon says that Kokujin is independent? Well, either way, I hope he bites it this tme, regardless of his Diamond Bug. I just hate the thought of the Daisho being corrupted. :( I'd even rather have the Celestial Sword be corrupted than Togashi's Daisho. -- Anssi Ramela I punch like a girl? So what? I only fight against little girls anyway. Choose yellow. Choose green. Choose two swords. Choose bare shoulders. Choose Dragon. (Choose the Dark Side, [if it's fun]) From ramela at cs.helsinki.fi Fri Dec 13 19:33:22 2002 From: ramela at cs.helsinki.fi (Anssi Ramela) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:35 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin References: Message-ID: <3DFA19E2.2010409@cs.helsinki.fi> Michael Iakovides wrote: > > Hm. You should have taken a clue from the fact that Hakene is still > discussing with me, and not flaming or swearing yet. In real life I am > very passionate about this subject, and if you think I am self > righteous, that is your right. This whole discussion is about storyline > reasons behind playing the game and whether the concept of playing > Tainted Dragon is viable under the following circumstances: > > a)Declaring that you are actually serving the Clan that you originate > from, and not the taint, and in effect Jigoku and Fu Leng. > b)Whether Kokujin and Taki can be classified as Dragon personalities, > and any other such personalities > c)Whether these concepts can be substantiated with storyline material or > not(otherwise I could say my character is actually the Fifth Wind or > some other such statement). Who gave you the right to decide how it is viable to be a Tainted Dragon? We all choose our alignments ourselves. I don't presume to be able to decide what anyone else's clan is, and I don't think Hakene or Akagi do either. You on the other hand apparently do. > Btw, let me state that I dislike people who argue like you, with a > veneer of liberalism, and do not allow people to express themselves. > Hakene does have the courage of his convicion, and even more so akagi > togashi. Hakene has the right to believe that Tainted Dragon are Dragon > players. My point of view that this is not the case, and that Tainted > players are in effect Shadowlands players off the Dragon boxes. Why > should I not have the right to express my point of view? I am not > pointing a gun to anyone's head, and anyone who does not like my point > of view, can gues what?DISAGREE.It is that simple.You impose your ideals > upon others when you forcibly change them, or refuse to allow them to > express themselves. Kinda like what you are trying to do right now.But > since I disagree with you, I will not:). You could have put IMO in there if you wanted to express an opinion. You have to realise that telling someone that they are not Dragon (or anything else, for that matter) because they put some amount of Shadowlands cards in their deck (or any other reason) is VERY offensive because people take their alignement very seriously. There is nothing wrong about having opinions about such things, but IMO such opinions are offensive and as such should be kept to oneself. Just as I should have kept that BS remark in the beginning to myself. I am sorry about that. From Vortex35 at aol.com Fri Dec 13 12:35:28 2002 From: Vortex35 at aol.com (Vortex35@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:35 2003 Subject: [dragon] A Question Message-ID: <1a7.d9ad8cc.2b2b7460@aol.com> In a message dated 12/13/02 3:09:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, RatEmperor@aol.com writes: > Fair enough...just wanted some certainty on the subject > As for a use for stolen souls, maybe he wants to make shoes? > > Kchat'Arak > Ise Nezumi > Perhaps wooden ones called sabo to offer Daigotsu for fighting the Empire.... hence the term... sabotage... ~This Star Trek VI moment was brought to you by~ ~Mirumoto Tasuki~ Dragon Clan Falconer - Samurai - Double Chi - Tactitian - Toturi's Army Will Join a Toturi's Army or Wolf Legion player for 2 less gold You may play Hawks and Falcons for Free "I may be a Dragon... but I know when to run with the Pack" (Formerly Mirumoto Ryu) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021213/d282671f/attachment.html From Vortex35 at aol.com Fri Dec 13 12:39:26 2002 From: Vortex35 at aol.com (Vortex35@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:35 2003 Subject: [dragon] Seppun Toshiken Evil?? Message-ID: In a message dated 12/13/02 8:36:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, togashi_akagi@hotmail.com writes: > ~Good and evil are very subjective in the rokugan, one can be "evil" to the > core yet hold great honor. (Doji Satsume, Seppun Toshiken) Can you do me a favor and explain this bit of information to me, speficically about Seppun Toshiken. I encountered him near the end of the Jade Arc and was one of my favorite personalities, but know little of his past. ~Mirumoto Tasuki~ Dragon Clan Falconer - Samurai - Double Chi - Tactitian - Toturi's Army Will Join a Toturi's Army or Wolf Legion player for 2 less gold You may play Hawks and Falcons for Free "I may be a Dragon... but I know when to run with the Pack" (Formerly Mirumoto Ryu) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021213/ec227f7b/attachment.html From Vortex35 at aol.com Fri Dec 13 12:50:36 2002 From: Vortex35 at aol.com (Vortex35@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:35 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: <17e.1376f7bc.2b2b77ec@aol.com> In a message dated 12/13/02 5:45:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, gaidin71@hotmail.com writes: > Think of going from Texas Chainsaw massacre to > Hannibal Lektor. That does not mean that the control of the taint is any > less on the Lost. It merely means that it gives them a firm set of > parameters(serve Jigoku and Fu Leng), and leaves them to accomplish their > goals with the most dangerous weapons in their repertoire: cunning and > innovation. A fair comparison of the Taint's intelligence, but it's still going from one form of evil to another. While evil can occasionally be used to cause great acts of good (I go back to my Star Wars analogies when the Emperor was killed by Vader) for the most part, they are still for all intents and purposes evil. This new evil that faces us isn't just a series of creatures in a shadow. They share our face, they share our minds, and most of all, they share our ability to adapt in a way the old demons couldn't. Adaptability inserted into the Shadowlands was for them the best thing they could have ever acheived. Look at what Daigotsu is doing with the Onisu. Originally just creatures of evil and villany, he's now making them stronger by merging an equally evil human spirit with the shells and strengths of the Onisu. (Also does anyone wonder if Kokujin would make a good host for our Onisu?) Take the brute force of their villany (texas chainsaw) and add to it the mind and adaptability of a human (Hannibal) and you get something that could destroy us, because it knows not just how to kill, but how NOT to BE killed. But even with all this, it's STILL our enemy, and we must fight it. I'll continue to play pure in my decks to help bring this scourge of Rokugan to it's knees. ~Mirumoto Tasuki~ Dragon Clan Falconer - Samurai - Double Chi - Tactitian - Toturi's Army Will Join a Toturi's Army or Wolf Legion player for 2 less gold You may play Hawks and Falcons for Free "I may be a Dragon... but I know when to run with the Pack" (Formerly Mirumoto Ryu) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021213/dc1da259/attachment.html From Vortex35 at aol.com Fri Dec 13 12:51:49 2002 From: Vortex35 at aol.com (Vortex35@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:35 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: <1a8.d9ab9d8.2b2b7835@aol.com> In a message dated 12/13/02 10:57:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, ramela@cs.helsinki.fi writes: > So, If I'm not mistaken, canon says that Kokujin is independent? > Well, either way, I hope he bites it this tme, regardless of his Diamond > Bug. I just hate the thought of the Daisho being corrupted. :( I'd even > rather have the Celestial Sword be corrupted than Togashi's Daisho. Under a suggestion from my previous email, perhaps his diamond bug COULD lead to him being overlayed with the Dragon Onisu that he could be merged with. ~Mirumoto Tasuki~ Dragon Clan Falconer - Samurai - Double Chi - Tactitian - Toturi's Army Will Join a Toturi's Army or Wolf Legion player for 2 less gold You may play Hawks and Falcons for Free "I may be a Dragon... but I know when to run with the Pack" (Formerly Mirumoto Ryu) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021213/f1ff1370/attachment.html From smuray at nac.net Fri Dec 13 13:00:55 2002 From: smuray at nac.net (Stephen Muray) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:35 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin References: <3DFA04F3.7080706@cs.helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <001a01c2a2d1$95658c40$c0ac11d0@tharizdun> Tell me, friends, when did the wise Dragon Clan abandon reason for madness? Bayushi Murai Scorpion Clan Poet From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 18:02:41 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:35 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) Message-ID: Greetings, >From: "akagi togashi" > >I hold a great amount of fascination with Togashi's character, yet I also >question the "free will" his ise zumi supposedly actually have. I understand your perspective but completely disagree with you. Simply put, how do you get tattooed? You have to walk into Dragon Lands, climb the Mt that has no path (and only a few of those who attempt this succeed), and then show you are worthy (no I am not looking this process up, I am going off memory so I hope I have made any horrible mistakes flame away if I had ;)). The point is the whole process of becoming an Ise-Zumi *screams* free will to me. You may not have understood all the ramifications of you action, but you definitely *wanted* to make this happen. Ymmv of course. Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From Vortex35 at aol.com Fri Dec 13 13:03:45 2002 From: Vortex35 at aol.com (Vortex35@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:36 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: <15b.18e5e6a7.2b2b7b01@aol.com> In a message dated 12/13/02 1:01:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, smuray@nac.net writes: > Tell me, friends, when did the wise Dragon Clan abandon reason for madness? > > Bayushi Murai > Scorpion Clan Poet When tainted members follow a mad ize zumi like Kokujin... but that's just my opinion. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021213/48d6639d/attachment.html From amburke6 at eircom.net Fri Dec 13 17:59:09 2002 From: amburke6 at eircom.net (Ann Burke) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:36 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin References: Message-ID: <008301c2a2d2$6c58b560$1c00000a@parents> > And Daigotsu is a good thing for the Shadowlands. He is intelligent, and > dangerous as a shark, and he offers sound strategies where the old Oni smash > kill ones failed. Human innovation and guiding will to the Evil that is the > Taint is the new model. thing is although modeling the Shadowlands Forces on the Empires has given Daigotsu some early sucess's and bound the Horde together into a far more dangerous force, he has opened them up to forms of atttack that up to know were not avalible to us. As much as Daigotsu has gained for the shadowlands he has lost them much aswell. Hida Eoin Crab Clan Koshi From Rick.Beidleman at cs.oag.state.tx.us Fri Dec 13 12:19:18 2002 From: Rick.Beidleman at cs.oag.state.tx.us (Rick Beidleman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:36 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) Message-ID: >>> bowman_rob@hotmail.com 12/13/02 12:02PM >>> Greetings, >From: "akagi togashi" > >I hold a great amount of fascination with Togashi's character, yet I also >question the "free will" his ise zumi supposedly actually have. I understand your perspective but completely disagree with you. Simply put, how do you get tattooed? You have to walk into Dragon Lands, climb the Mt that has no path (and only a few of those who attempt this succeed), and then show you are worthy (no I am not looking this process up, I am going off memory so I hope I have made any horrible mistakes flame away if I had ;)). [KK] That about covers it. The only other thing you could say is that no two prospects find the same path to Kyuden Togashi. You also left out that not every one who proves their worth and is chosen, actually gets their tattoos. If you'll remember Togashi Yoshi and Togashi Yama never accepted their tattoos. The point is the whole process of becoming an Ise-Zumi *screams* free will to me. You may not have understood all the ramifications of you action, but you definitely *wanted* to make this happen. Ymmv of course. [KK] It's all about the free will. We choose to accept the tattoos. No one forces them on us. Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan Kitsuki Kyomitsu Dragon Clan Magistrate * Samurai * Soul of Mirumoto Issai _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ Dragon mailing list Dragon@michonline.com http://michonline.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dragon From SLcpUnK420002 at aol.com Fri Dec 13 14:08:19 2002 From: SLcpUnK420002 at aol.com (SLcpUnK420002@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:36 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: In a message dated 12/13/2002 12:01:28 PM Central America Standard T, smuray@nac.net writes: > > Tell me, friends, when did the wise Dragon Clan abandon reason for madness? > > Bayushi Murai > Scorpion Clan Poet > Bad its a lord of the rings quote! I am the only one thats mad and im not tainted. Mirumoto Jon Dragon Clan Tattooed Samurai*Berserker*Crab Clan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021213/62932504/attachment.html From rcephi at jps.net Fri Dec 13 11:27:24 2002 From: rcephi at jps.net (Brad Greenberg) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:36 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) References: Message-ID: <3DFA349D.828F6134@jps.net> Michael Iakovides wrote: My brethren. . . > That is the whole point guys.Kobai is not an evil traitor. He is a tragic > figure, worthy of pity. He went to try and retrieve our Kami's daisho from > Kokujin. He failed, And the fact that he failed to return should have served as an example to the rest of us. > and became tainted, and under Kokujin's control. The > entity we knew as Kobai died then. I fear not. The Taint is, as has been said, intelligent. It has most likely left enough of the true Kobai to recognize (and hate) what he has become. > Now he is simply a pawn of Jigoku, or > Kokujin(open to debate)... > >Kobai Is an evil twisted traitor who should be hung at tratiors grove or on > >the front of kyuden hitomi for betrayl.Of course that does not sound too > >civilized either but i still hate the taint. Lady Hitomi whould strike him > >down herself for such a traitorus act! > > > I suspect that Our Lady has more pressing matters on Her hands right now than one fallen Dragon. And in any case, there can be no worse punishment for Kobai's failure than what he is suffering now. Clear skies, Hitomi Caeldiin--Dragon Clan poet, seer, and zealot, Mantis Clan advocate Brad Greenberg From togashi_akagi at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 19:30:22 2002 From: togashi_akagi at hotmail.com (akagi togashi) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:36 2003 Subject: [dragon] Seppun Toshiken Evil?? Message-ID: >~Good and evil are very subjective in the rokugan, one can be "evil" to the > > core yet hold great honor. (Doji Satsume, Seppun Toshiken) > >Can you do me a favor and explain this bit of information to me, >speficically >about Seppun Toshiken. I encountered him near the end of the Jade Arc and >was one of my favorite personalities, but know little of his past. Both Satsume and Toshiken were completely absorbed in maintaining their honor, however both were extremely hard hearted and used their posistion as emerald champion to further their own agendas. WIth Satsume it was keeping a strong crane clan, with toshiken it was his love for swordsmanship and particuarly killing. He even put his children to his own blade at the command of the shadow mad Toturi, and later is tormented with visions of the children, at toturi's whim. Also he took great please in distributing the "justice" of the emperor when the imperial armies were sent to get the rice Hitomi had offered the empire. He took great joy in killing naga and dragon alike during the battles, his orders were to "fight his way to the castle", which he followed to the letter cutting his way through dragons that otherwise would not have been enemies. Hence the bonus that the sword of the emerald champion gives against tattooed men. Later in the story arc his attitude changes, and he becomes the hero in the image of his father. Most of this is due to him letting go of the internal hatred towards his father and witnessing Toturi return to his true self, providing further motivatin to change his path. Early on he was not in the "nice" category and despite having a tremendous amount of honor was evil hearted. Akagi _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From rcephi at jps.net Fri Dec 13 11:37:46 2002 From: rcephi at jps.net (Brad Greenberg) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:36 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) References: Message-ID: <3DFA370B.E1C86F08@jps.net> Rob Bowman wrote: > Greetings, My brother. . . > > > >From: "akagi togashi" > > > >I hold a great amount of fascination with Togashi's character, yet I also > >question the "free will" his ise zumi supposedly actually have. > > I understand your perspective but completely disagree with you. Simply put, > how do you get tattooed? You have to walk into Dragon Lands, climb the Mt > that has no path (and only a few of those who attempt this succeed), and > then show you are worthy (no I am not looking this process up, I am going > off memory so I hope I have made any horrible mistakes flame away if I had > ;)). > > The point is the whole process of becoming an Ise-Zumi *screams* free will > to me. You may not have understood all the ramifications of you action, but > you definitely *wanted* to make this happen. Ymmv of course. I think that Akagi-san may have been referring to the amount of free-will the ise-zumi have *after* they receive their tattooes. The answer is, of course, the same. There's a difference between the absolute servitude and *demanded* by Jigoku, and perfect obedience freely given to a lord or Lady who deserves it. If Togashi's ise zumi were fanatical in their loyalty, that was because they knew who and what he was, and that what he commanded was both right and necessary. I would add that the single greatest blow our Clan has suffered was the loss of that clarity of vision and purpose when Hitomi ascended. We are not what we were, my brethren. Clear skies, Hitomi Caeldiin--Dragon Clan poet, seer, and zealot, Mantis Clan advocate Brad Greenberg From andrew at dragonstone.com Fri Dec 13 11:44:21 2002 From: andrew at dragonstone.com (Andrew Garrett) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:36 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) References: <3DFA370B.E1C86F08@jps.net> Message-ID: <00e401c2a2e0$08700bd0$6801a8c0@andrew> > I would add that the single greatest blow our Clan has suffered was the > loss of that clarity of vision and purpose when Hitomi ascended. We are not > what we were, my brethren. We never were what we were. Kitsuki Hayato Dragon Clan Seeker From mcwhirtersp at mail.utexas.edu Fri Dec 13 13:49:57 2002 From: mcwhirtersp at mail.utexas.edu (Shaun McWhirter) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:36 2003 Subject: [dragon] Monkeying Around With Enlightenment Message-ID: <1039808997.3dfa39e5babc1@webmailapp2.cc.utexas.edu> Here's something I put together..my first attempt at an enlightment deck. As almost all "Big E" decks are, this one is fragile in the opening turns, but midgame, it rocks the socks. Anyway, have at it. Comments to follow. Shiro Tamori Wind: Toturi Sezaru Personalities(17) 3x Mirumoto Tsuge 3x Tamori Chieko 3x Tamori Hiroko 3x Tamori Shaitung 3x Togashi Kansuke 1x Hoshi Wayan xp2 1x Kaelung Holdings(19) 3x Gold Mine 3x Jade Works 3x Mystic Dojo 3x Hiruma Dojo 3x Shrine of the Sun 2x Gifts and Favors 1x Oracle of Earth 1x Deep Earth Sanctum Regions(1) 1x Togashi's Shrine Events(4) Imperial Gift In Time of War Chryanthemum Festival Regions of Rokugan -=-=-=-=-=- Actions(21) 3x Ambush 3x Block Supply ines 3x Deadly Ground 3x Dragon Tattoo 3x Draw From Within 3x Iaijutsu Art 3x Night Battle Spells(6) 3x Look Into the Void 3x Walking the Way Kihos(3) 3x Aid of the Grandmaster Items(5) Celestial Sword of the Dragon 2x Armor of Osano-Wo 2x The Armor of Sun-Tao Rings(5) Can anyone venture a guess here? :-) OK, here's some of the tricks of the deck. Well, actually, most people know most of the enlightenment tricks so I won't get into that, but the one I like the most is putting a Dragon Tattoo on Chieko. Since the Tattoo gives her the action "Open: Place 1 to 3 tokens .. blah blah", it's considered an innate ability and you can put one token on at a time, and voila, Ring of Air! The hardest Ring for me, it's seemed, is Ring of Earth. If I get lucky and get an early Tsuge, I can Dragon Tattoo + Armor of Osano-Wo + Stronghold, and then drop RoE instead of taking the prov. Midgame, it seems, I just can't get Earth into play because their defenses are too well setup, and when they attack, I don't have enough stuff to stop them. I might switch to Tsudao, since I can get the Rings when I need them with the Shrine, and I have plenty of card draw in the deck (Hiroko, Chieko, WtW, AotGM, LitV, RotV). Anyway, comments and criticisms welcome. Mirumoto Seijitsu Dragon Clan Shugenja * Mantis Clan * Experienced 2F 4C 2HR 7G 3PH Will only join a Dragon or Mantis player. If joining a Dragon player, he gains the Tattooed trait. If joining a Mantis player, he gains the Naval trait. If you are either player and have resolved the event Alliance and named the other clan, Seijitsu has both traits. "I seek refuge in the Mantis Isles while my brothers purge the Phoenix from Rokugan." PS: Yes, I have won a game or two with this deck. From SLcpUnK420002 at aol.com Fri Dec 13 15:41:17 2002 From: SLcpUnK420002 at aol.com (SLcpUnK420002@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:36 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) Message-ID: In a message dated 12/13/2002 1:25:15 PM Central America Standard Ti, rcephi@jps.net writes: > Kobai Is an evil twisted traitor who should be hung at tratiors grove or on > > >the front of kyuden hitomi for betrayl.Of course that does not sound too > > >civilized either but i still hate the taint. Lady Hitomi whould strike > him > > >down herself for such a traitorus act! > > > > I am not a very good speaker when i am drunk am i? Mirumoto Jon Dragon Clan Tattooed Samurai*Berserker*Crab Clan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021213/b9c969d2/attachment.html From ben at strangecompany.org Fri Dec 13 20:50:06 2002 From: ben at strangecompany.org (Ben Moss) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:36 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin References: Message-ID: <04de01c2a2e9$4a298570$f839fea9@spaniel> From: "Rob Bowman" > Greetings, > > >From: "Ben Moss" > > >Now if we go on the premise that Kokujin was prepared (see rules and old > >d10 > >stuff) and has retained control then we should be considering whether or > >not > >our brethren that tread Kokujin's path are infected with the Taint (aka Fu > >Leng/Jigoku) or with.....errr... Kokujin (In the way that Hitomi's power > >was > >passed on to those she tattooed, etc). At this point the question of > >whether or not any of his followers are strong enough to resist the Taint > >becomes irrelevant as they do not have it. So all it took was Kokujin > >himself to be strong enough. > > Neat theory. Based on nothing more then conjecture I would guess (I don't > see any quotes anywhere), right? Yes, totally conjecture. We don't know what is and isn't the case with Kokujin's followers we've only got the original material to base our ideas on. With that in mind I tried considering some of the other options for what may be the case in the hope of furthering our understanding of this situation. > I could argue that since Oriental Adeventures states that everything in the > Shadowlands is evil, and that the Shadowlands in an outer plane (Pg 234 > Oriental Adventures) then Kokujins Gang has a better chance of being > disguised Xill (Evil outsider pg 187 MM). At least I support my hypothesis > with some compelling supporting documentation ;P!! You could argue that but I prefer my hypothesis ;P > The point here Ben is one of the Cradinal rules of L5R is that exceptions > exist and these exceptions take priority over the general rules. Izo laid > out the general rules, and even went to the extent of noting exceptions > existed and listed a few of them. But unless you have clear documetation > clarifying the exception (as per Kokujin which i just recently posted), the > general rule applies. It depends on which general rule you are applying though. The hypothesis above was based on the fact that we know that Kokujin's followers were tattooed by him, we do not have any evidence that they have the taint. I'm in no way disagreeing with the fact that the taint is an evil force or anything like that. If we are talking about every dark ise zumi trying to walk the path as Kokujin walked it then there will be a very large number of failures, I totally agree, what I am talking about is a situation where that step is bypassed as Kokujin passes on his power, not the shadow's, not that of the taint and not that of Togashi's blood, just Kokujin's (using the general rule of "the means of imparting power through tattooes"). > As for the difference between "quickly succumbing" and "controlling" the > Taint. Well that is a huge jump my friend. Had you researched it (or > asked) you might have learned "tea of jade petals" can *surpress* the taint. I am aware of the use of the tea of jade petals but that is not the only form of protection. There's the crow tattoo as the most obvious (and dragon related) example and Kokujin's use of Togashi's daisho to power a kiho he knew to name just two more. Just as you are frustrated by people not supplying supporting documentation I get very frustrated with people taking a piece of documentation and drawing invalid conclusions from it. The reason I used the quotes given by Michael, whose efforts at explaining his viewpoint should be commended, was that I believe his conclusions from that evidence were flawed. My point was that both quotes said that without precautions you would fall to the taint (some paraphrasing due to trying to combine two sentences into one). The converse of that being if you were prepared (in whatever form that takes) then it might be possible to control it. It's by no means certain as I said before, merely possible. "Controlling" was perhaps the wrong word to have used previously would "not succumb to the mentally and spiritually corrupting influence of [Jigoku]" suffice better? Can I be certain that my hypothesis is correct while Michael's is wrong? Of course not, as the answer has not yet been written, but both are valid conclusions from the evidence we have IMO. > Hope that helps, and sorry I am so grumpy :(. It really bothers me when > someone goes to all the trouble Izo did to educate us all and then for > someone to argue exceptions all while offering nothing new. Again I > apologize if I sound grumpy, I just wanted to make a point I understand, from previous comments you've made, your feelings on supporting evidence. My explanation was based on the belief that the conclusions drawn from the previously supplied evidence were erroneous and could just as easilly be interpretted to a different end result, as such the evidence was already supplied. You seem to have a bias against conjecture when all any of us are doing is trying to ascertain the truth ("Is there truly any truth?"). That's not an accusation in any way but an observation based on your desire for empirical evidence. We simply have different ways of interpretting that evidence. There's no need for an apology for anything you wrote there, we simply have a different way of looking at things and a different way of developing conclusions. To each their own. Hitomi Touken From togashi_akagi at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 21:14:11 2002 From: togashi_akagi at hotmail.com (akagi togashi) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:36 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) Message-ID: >>I hold a great amount of fascination with Togashi's character, yet I also >>question the "free will" his ise zumi supposedly actually have. > >I understand your perspective but completely disagree with you. Simply >put, how do you get tattooed? You have to walk into Dragon Lands, climb >the Mt that has no path (and only a few of those who attempt this succeed), >and then show you are worthy (no I am not looking this process up, I am >going off memory so I hope I have made any horrible mistakes flame away if >I had ;)). No horrible mistakes, but for the sake of argument some ise zumi are born tattooed, and some simply have their tattoos appear. (like hogai) Very few that start the climb to teh dragon mountains understanding what is about to happen, rather they feel a overwhelming need to do so. Rarely does a person start singing I'm off to see Togashi and go skipping up the yellow brick road to get tattooed in the enlghtened city. ;) In the dragon book there is a qoute whichs sums up a huge aspect of the togashi, and their ise zumi. Roughly: I did not chose to be dragon, before my grandfather's gradfather's time, before the beginning of time itself my soul was born to be. Hence a true togashi/ise zumi does not chose it's path, it is fated to be, there is no other outcome. All of the soul's previous lives were simply steps towards finding it's true place within the togashi order. Also keeping in mind that before the clan war Togashi does not reveal his true nature until they already have his blood in them, which is what allows them to see him in his true form. For a thousand years the ise zumi protected this secret "togashi's riddle" even the threat of death would not force them to divuldge this information, so there is absolutely no chance that one would understand the truth of the process prior to the tattooing. (out of character we all know because we read the books) Even then the process is not complete, the majority of those unworthy are turned away by the path of the mountain, but even still there are those who cannot bear the weight of cosmic truth. The "madmen" are put to death rather than allowed to live and expose Togashi's secret, or defy his command. Leaving little choice to say no once the tattooing is actually complete. (Also if togashi knows the entre future why would he tattoo those who would break? Since he is a dragon is he bound to allow the destiny of those fated to be dragon and get the tattoos, but unwilling to allow them to make choices contrary to his command?) Think of tattooing as the ultimately fine print contract, you have to sign it without being able to read the fine print because it's written in a language you can't even begin to comprehend until after the deal is closed. At which point you either agree and follow it's terms or you're put to death. Is that really a "choice"? It's also incredibly hard to stand against the will of a true kami, they say you will do this, and all except the most depraved of rokuganni will follow that command without fault because it's litterally coming from a god. The *entire* society of the rokugan revolves around serving one of higher station would fault, and the divine kami are hard to beat in ranking on the totem pole. In end ther result may be a very good thing, since togashi's interest are for the better of the rokugan, even though his methods are confusing as hell. >The point is the whole process of becoming an Ise-Zumi *screams* free will >to me. You may not have understood all the ramifications of you action, >but you definitely *wanted* to make this happen. Ymmv of course. Secondary only to the pursuit of enlightenment the true dragon is a creature of fate. The greater one's destiny the less choice they have in the role. Hitomi's early struggle was to prove that she was in control and that none governed her, even as she stood over Togashi's dying body her entire being protested that she need to be a servant of fate. Yet she could not fight against it otherwise because to deny that very fate would destroy not only herself but the entire world. Only by understanding and accepting the ultimate role destiny plays in all things was she able to become the dragon champion, and later fight lord moon. Free will and destiny are contrary in nearly every aspect. Free will is assumed to be in full effect so long as it runs in line with the path of destiny. Much the same arguement was made on this list about taint, it allows you to do what you want until you seek to defy it, and that's when it twists your arm until you comply. Fate and destiny is incredibly powerful within the dragon, it's what drives men up the mountain to recieve tattoos and become ise zumi, it can't be explained or changed it can only be lived. I won't even go into the whole shackling and forced tattooing during the HE arc. Akagi _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From togashi_akagi at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 21:24:51 2002 From: togashi_akagi at hotmail.com (akagi togashi) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:36 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: >Hope that helps, and sorry I am so grumpy :(. It really bothers me when >someone goes to all the trouble Izo did to educate us all and then for >someone to argue exceptions all while offering nothing new. Again I >apologize if I sound grumpy, I just wanted to make a point I understand, >from previous comments you've made, your feelings on supporting evidence. My explanation was based on the belief that the conclusions drawn from the previously supplied evidence were erroneous and could just as easilly be interpretted to a different end result, as such the evidence was already supplied. You seem to have a bias against conjecture when all any of us are doing is trying to ascertain the truth ("Is there truly any truth?"). That's not an accusation in any way but an observation based on your desire for empirical evidence. We simply have different ways of interpretting that evidence. There's no need for an apology for anything you wrote there, we simply have a different way of looking at things and a different way of developing conclusions. To each their own. Hitomi Touken Wow, you are my new personal hero :) I couldn't have said that better. The one thing everyone should keep in mind about l5r canon is that it has repeatedly be shown that it is entirely subjectional to who and what clan is telling the tale. Any kitsuki or monk should be able to tell you there are countless ways of looking at any given topic, not just one. So that which is quoted as truth cannot always be assumed to be rock solid. In the rokugan the truths and past change constantly to embrace the moment. Is there truly any truth? Akagi :) btw the best part about the dragon is that they have always defied, rules, truth, and definition. That's what being a mystic clan is all about :) _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From togashi_akagi at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 21:43:20 2002 From: togashi_akagi at hotmail.com (akagi togashi) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:36 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) Message-ID: Both your posts have been excellent Akagi-san, and I must admit have made me see Kokujin's character in a new light(I still a fanatic supporter of pure Dragons, but I agree to your perspective of him- an interesting one in the way he seeks a perverse enlightenment).You truly make a case for a fraction that mirrors the Dragon, but is anathema to all that the Dragon hold dear. It is the antithesis of all that is the Dragon,with similar techniques and make wonderful and believable opponents (along with the Phoenix, Shadowlands, Dark Oracle of Fire- we are definitely overworked:))). Now Kokujin is interested in his personal path to enlightenment(or de-illumination as some might see it:). All that serve him, are slaves. This is debatable, but I think there is proof of this: Kobai. Now Kobai wanted to kill Kokujin with all his heart, as shown in the Dragon letter for Race to Volturnuum. He would have chosen death over any other choice(that is my own take on Kobai's character). Therefore, one can only assume that he has been forcefully converted, and even if Kokujin did reveal his secrets, and the way he keeps the taint at bay(in my personal view, the conditions cannot be duplicated for others, due to the uniqueness of Kokujin, but this is subject to debate), he would still not be free of will, but Kokujin's pawn. Eitherway, I would have to say, that for all intended purposes, those who serve Kokujin, are Dragons no more, but followers of Kokujin (sort of like a cult).Therefore, I must still say that in my personal view, one cannot play Tainted Dragon, and say he serves the Clan in any effective way, unless the goals of our Clan, match those of Kokujin in some way. And maybe sunconsciously, Kokujin craves the understanding of his former brothers and sisters of the Dragon I must admit that your insights on Kokujin make him a much more interesting dramatis persona and villain, rather than the carricature he seems to be at first sight. Regards, Michael Iakovides Mirumoto Izo Tainted Tattoed Samurai My thanks :) As one of his biggest fans I put a lot of effort into unraveling his character, and trying to make sense of him for other to see. It'd be so much easier if he wasn't such a twisted bastard, but then I doubt I'd love the character so much either. I have no doubt that those under kokujin's command are fully enslaved to his will. They share in his enlightened madness in the same way that normal ise zumi share in Togashi's/Hoshi/hitomi's enlightenment. Because they are loyal to this vision of enlightenment to the core they are fully enslaved to the will of their enlightened guidance. If they are willing or not depends entirely on perspective. I think that the reason kokujin keeps returning to trouble the dragon is because as he seeks enlightenment he is still "dragon" at heart, even though his actions place him in great opposistion with teh clan as a whole. There is ground to say that he serves the clan in any other measure than sharing in the quest for enlightenment. True shadowlands follow the commands of jigoku, even the most powerful shadowlands shugenja quests solely for personal power they do not seek enlightenment, which is why I do not placed him in the standard shadowlands category, regardless of his cgg alignemnt he is (and always will be to me ) a seriously depraved dragon. Each dragon no matter light or dark must forge their own path. Simply following another's path will bear no fruit be it Hoshi's, Mitsu's or even Kokujin's. The true dragon can only find their own way not follow in the path of others. As a dark dragon I aspire to walk my own path not to follow kokujin, though I may learn by his example. Akagi BTW did anyone else notice that kokujin haad a hand in constructing the temple of the lost? There may well be a brotherhood of kokujin, comprised of lost dragon seeking dark enlightenment... which would be scary :) _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 21:56:06 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:36 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: Greetings, Good post Ben... . >From: "Ben Moss" >It depends on which general rule you are applying though. The hypothesis >above was based on the fact that we know that Kokujin's followers were >tattooed by him, we do not have any evidence that they have the taint. Uhm, even Kokujin has the Taint. He is just an exception who is not a slave to it. The general rule for the Shadowlands is on Pg 234 Oriental Adventures- "The substance of evil pervades the Shadowlands, poisoning the area with its contaminating presence. This corruption, commonly known as the Shadowland's Taint, affects everything that walks and breathes amoung it- with the notable exception of the nezumi. All who tread in this dark realm are bathed in it's evil, and most suffer horribly from the exposure." So how is it possible to hypothesis that the followers do not have then Taint based on the general rule and even Kokujin's special circumstances? So I think what you mean is are Kokujins followers slaves to the taint or immune to the Taint isn't it? >I understand, from previous comments you've made, your feelings on >supporting evidence. My explanation was based on the belief that the >conclusions drawn from the previously supplied evidence were erroneous and >could just as easilly be interpretted to a different end result, as such >the >evidence was already supplied. You seem to have a bias against conjecture >when all any of us are doing is trying to ascertain the truth ("Is there >truly any truth?"). That's not an accusation in any way but an observation >based on your desire for empirical evidence. We simply have different ways >of interpretting that evidence. There's no need for an apology for >anything >you wrote there, we simply have a different way of looking at things and a >different way of developing conclusions. To each their own. This is a good explanation. I do not conjecture or question much, but stick to the "general rules" barring the specific exception. You on the other hand immediately seem to question, and look for where the exceptions could occur. Fair enough. Of course us understanding this about each other might have helped a few months ago ;). Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From togashi_akagi at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 22:00:57 2002 From: togashi_akagi at hotmail.com (akagi togashi) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:36 2003 Subject: [dragon] A Question Message-ID: >Also who knows what Togashi knew about Kokujin, besides Togashi himself? >Way of Shadowlands gives little info and Enlightened Madness part I gives >only hints. I agree I would like to think Yokuni knew Kokujin path, and >that he had to help Hitomi. But that is just idle speculation and nothing >more, I can't find a single canon source to shed more light on the matter. >Can anyone else offer solid evidence :)? > >Take care, >Rob- Mirumoto Shokan How about the repeated passages in WOD that Togashi knows everything that was and will ever be? I'm certain that he knew Kokujin's role with Hitomi and he knew what would become of him that we are yet to see. There's always that unending scroll mention in WOD that holds togashi's recordings of everything in rokuganni history and holds information on all that will be. (and not just human history either) But as a whole, there is no solid evidence in most aspects of the dragon, being the most mystic/enigmatic clan in the rokugan tends not to favor generating solid evidence, otherwise we might actually be understood ;) Akagi - bearer of the gaki tattoo _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 22:08:00 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:37 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) Message-ID: Greetings, >From: "akagi togashi" Come on you was begging for it ;)!! >I won't even go into the whole shackling and forced tattooing during the HE >arc. Liar ;p!! Actually in all seriousness, we who were around at the time knew what was going on, but with the retcon/rewritings/do over, what is the official version of how so many out of Clan peeps got their Tats now *officially*? Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From puck at holycow.com Fri Dec 13 14:13:54 2002 From: puck at holycow.com (Joe Fulgham) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:37 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin In-Reply-To: <001a01c2a2d1$95658c40$c0ac11d0@tharizdun> Message-ID: <005401c2a2f4$edd822c0$6401a8c0@puck> > Tell me, friends, when did the wise Dragon Clan abandon > reason for madness? We didn't. The mad puppets of Kokujin (or Fu Leng -- it doesn't really matter) all claim to be Dragon Clan, but don't follow the rightful leader of the Dragon. To step out of character, it's like following Osam Bin Laden but saying you're a loyal American. And then back up your reasoning with "But Osama isn't evil, see!" and think that it makes a difference even if you were right. Joe Fulgham | Hitomi Pukku | puck@holycow.com Dragon Clan Shugenja * Master of the Web * Dragon in Black * Secret Master of L5R | http://www.holycow.com/l5r/ L5R Code (2.2): DR++ S++ G++ Y+ P:M-H+D-E(5) O- EJ- SJ+ SG+ I++ Sc(86) C++++ E++ M- T-- Sd- D+ K H++ Tk IC++ U++ From togashi_akagi at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 22:27:01 2002 From: togashi_akagi at hotmail.com (akagi togashi) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:37 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: Tell me, friends, when did the wise Dragon Clan abandon reason for madness? We didn't. The mad puppets of Kokujin (or Fu Leng -- it doesn't really matter) all claim to be Dragon Clan, but don't follow the rightful leader of the Dragon. To step out of character, it's like following Osam Bin Laden but saying you're a loyal American. And then back up your reasoning with "But Osama isn't evil, see!" and think that it makes a difference even if you were right. I think Osama's actions were beyond evil, and I want to see him suffer eternally in hell. However the US/CIA *did* support him in the afgan war against USSR, we trained him, gave him money and weapons, and he served our cause until he decided to attack us, which is when he suddenly became evil to the US. I think he was evil the entire time though the US was dealing with him under the enemy of an enemy is a friend clause. They should have let the russians shoot him to begin with. Jon _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From togashi_akagi at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 22:16:57 2002 From: togashi_akagi at hotmail.com (akagi togashi) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:37 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: This of course is all wild speculation :) The process of tattooing involves, injecting part of the soul into the tattoo reciever. This is what allows the ise zumi to see togashi in his true form, to undertsand things from the view of celestrial balance, and able to draw upon the power of togashi/heaven in the form of their tattoos. The process changes little be it Hoshi, Hitomi or Kokujin that is doing the tattooing. However as far as kokujin's tattooing there are two possibilities. A- being that he passes on the taint freely in his tattooing. Which is the most probable outcome, he could even go so far as to pass on great amounts of taint into teh subject thus removing it's greater effects from his own body. Given that he holds knowledge of kiho that lets him fight taint it may only be a simple trick to transfer it into another. (which is already possible with canon spell effects) B- that the tattoing process doesn't inherantly pass on the taint. At first I was pretty certain that his tattoos would automatically pass on the taint, however I've been reading winds and fortunes over the last few days and taint is a certainly a complex topic. Taint appears be a seperate alien entity and not actually part of ones inner soul, though it fights to overcome and replace the soul. If this holds true than it would be *possible* to pass on only the untainted soul during tattooing, provide one understood the proper course. Given kokujin's intesive knowledge about manners of the soul it would not be out of reach for him to be able to perfom option b, however being the sick bastard that he is, and his own struggle with taint I'd rest assured that even if he could opt not to pass taint, he still pass taint willingly allowing him to stave off it's effects easier. It's already well established that he has no concern for the plight others, save what they can do to further his aims. Being that he and his followers reside in tainted lands, or were tainted well before the tattooing (goblins)I'd expect that everyone of his followers carries taint, form him or otherwise. Akagi _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From amburke6 at eircom.net Fri Dec 13 22:26:50 2002 From: amburke6 at eircom.net (Ann Burke) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:37 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) References: Message-ID: <00d801c2a2f7$0746fdb0$1c00000a@parents> >> Come on you was begging for it ;)!! > > >I won't even go into the whole shackling and forced tattooing during the HE > >arc. > > Liar ;p!! > > Actually in all seriousness, we who were around at the time knew what was > going on, but with the retcon/rewritings/do over, what is the official > version of how so many out of Clan peeps got their Tats now *officially*? > Jeez Rob be reasonable, you cant expect Rich Wulf to explain that without 10 different factions getting offended by whatever explanation he comes up with. Might as well ask him to explain why Greedo shoots first.... However I believe the offical line is the great stocks of handwavium nitrate (required by each clan to fight the Shadow and power their OmniMechs) were in the Dragon mountains, guarded by the Seven Indestructiable Togashi. The only way to get past was to have a tattoo, so each of the Clans...er Factions sent forth their most angst ridden warrior to get tattooed by Chibi Hitomi so they could get the nitrate for their clans then in gratitude serve Hitomi by merging into Hyper-Mega-Otaku Togashi X20 and killing Fu-Lengs brother..... . . . . . . . . . . alternatively as Wick said "Hitomi Bad" > Take care, > Rob- Mirumoto Shokan Hida Eoin Crab Clan Koshi From smuray at nac.net Fri Dec 13 17:36:00 2002 From: smuray at nac.net (Stephen Muray) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:37 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin References: <005401c2a2f4$edd822c0$6401a8c0@puck> Message-ID: <003701c2a2f8$03592c40$c0ac11d0@tharizdun> From: "Joe Fulgham" > > Tell me, friends, when did the wise Dragon Clan abandon > > reason for madness? > > We didn't. The mad puppets of Kokujin (or Fu Leng -- it doesn't really > matter) all claim to be Dragon Clan, but don't follow the rightful leader of > the Dragon. I understand your pain. The Scorpion have gone through a similar tragedy recently with traitors following Atsuki rather than Yojiro. Bayushi Murai Scorpion Clan Poet From togashi_akagi at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 22:36:56 2002 From: togashi_akagi at hotmail.com (akagi togashi) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:37 2003 Subject: [dragon] (Rich/Shawn?) New Fiction Message-ID: Come on you was begging for it ;)!! >I won't even go into the whole shackling and forced tattooing during the HE >arc. Liar ;p!! Actually in all seriousness, we who were around at the time knew what was going on, but with the retcon/rewritings/do over, what is the official version of how so many out of Clan peeps got their Tats now *officially*? ~I haven't seen it addressed at all, it's been silently swept under the rug and kept quiet as though it never happened. And of course dragons aren't ones to air dirty laundery since they want to appear pure and infallable on all fronts ;) We need to dig deep and find out what *really* happened for once and not pretend everything was so pretty. Rich, Shawn, any help???? I'm surprised that the enlightened madness fic didn't touch on it, or maybe it still will which would be nice to see some clarification and explanation as what was going on. My theory for the "collect them all" phase was that it was part of the ritual to summon lord moon. In the either the city lies set or otosan uchi there is mention of a sect of bloodspeakers that believes that if they sacrifice one of each kami's blood lines at teh age and in the order that the kami feel from heaven that they could summon the wrath of lord moon down upon the rokugan. I'm not saying that Hitomi was using the same maho ritual but there are some seriously strong parallels going on, with uniting one of each bloodline directly with her own. Kokujin's taint playing the role of fu lengs bloodline. either that or she was playing some seriously demented game of pokemon with various clan members :) Akagi _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From togashi_akagi at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 22:44:27 2002 From: togashi_akagi at hotmail.com (akagi togashi) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:37 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) Message-ID: >Jeez Rob be reasonable, you cant expect Rich Wulf to explain that without >10 >different factions getting offended by whatever explanation he comes up >with. Might as well ask him to explain why Greedo shoots first.... Man that was a revision that really pissed me off, Han shooting first was one of the main things that added grit to his character and distanced him from the shiny good-goody Luke. :) Either way *someone* had to shoot first, but damn that revision sucked. Akagi _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 23:15:35 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:37 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) Message-ID: Greetings, Two quick things... 1) I love having a Crab on the list :)!! Now there is a Clan I respect!! 2)I know what you are basing the second explanation on, but where is your documentation for your first hypothesis ;p!! Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan >From: "Ann Burke" >Reply-To: dragon@michonline.com >To: >Subject: Re: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) >Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 22:26:50 -0000 > > > >> Come on you was begging for it ;)!! > > > > >I won't even go into the whole shackling and forced tattooing during >the >HE > > >arc. > > > > Liar ;p!! > > > > Actually in all seriousness, we who were around at the time knew what >was > > going on, but with the retcon/rewritings/do over, what is the official > > version of how so many out of Clan peeps got their Tats now >*officially*? > > > >Jeez Rob be reasonable, you cant expect Rich Wulf to explain that without >10 >different factions getting offended by whatever explanation he comes up >with. Might as well ask him to explain why Greedo shoots first.... > >However I believe the offical line is the great stocks of handwavium >nitrate >(required by each clan to fight the Shadow and power their OmniMechs) were >in the Dragon mountains, guarded by the Seven Indestructiable Togashi. The >only way to get past was to have a tattoo, so each of the Clans...er >Factions sent forth their most angst ridden warrior to get tattooed by >Chibi >Hitomi so they could get the nitrate for their clans then in gratitude >serve >Hitomi by merging into Hyper-Mega-Otaku Togashi X20 and killing Fu-Lengs >brother..... >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >alternatively as Wick said "Hitomi Bad" > > > > Take care, > > Rob- Mirumoto Shokan > >Hida Eoin >Crab Clan Koshi > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Dragon mailing list >Dragon@michonline.com >http://michonline.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dragon _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 23:25:59 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:37 2003 Subject: [dragon] Seppun Toshiken Evil?? Message-ID: Greetings, >From: "akagi togashi" > >>~Good and evil are very subjective in the rokugan, one can be "evil" to >>the >> > core yet hold great honor. I just wanted to touch on this. For this statement is very true. You can be evil, but very honorable in Rokugan. And in most of Rokugan you are goor or evil depending on what your Daimyo/Clan Champ/Emporer is, because honor is the default condition (see esp the Lion pre DoT). And this is the very reason Dragon is still so appealing to me today. It is my perspective that we care more about Right and Good than any other Clan in Rokugan. Any thoughts here? Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From amburke6 at eircom.net Fri Dec 13 23:32:07 2002 From: amburke6 at eircom.net (Ann Burke) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:37 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) References: Message-ID: <011101c2a2ff$da8cb590$1c00000a@parents> > Greetings, > > Two quick things... > > 1) I love having a Crab on the list :)!! Now there is a Clan I respect!! > > 2)I know what you are basing the second explanation on, but where is your > documentation for your first hypothesis ;p!! > In the best tradition of the Hidden Emperor I didnt write that hypotheisis, Ninjas did. stupid stupid arc. Hida Eoin Crab Clan Koshi * Ninja > Take care, > Rob- Mirumoto Shokan > > From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Fri Dec 13 23:51:38 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:37 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) Message-ID: Greetings, Random snippage has occured... >From: "akagi togashi" >No horrible mistakes, but for the sake of argument some ise zumi are born >tattooed, and some simply have their tattoos appear. (like hogai) Very few >that start the climb to teh dragon mountains understanding what is about to >happen, rather they feel a overwhelming need to do so. These are like the tainted few who resist the taint. They are completely the exception not the rule. >Think of tattooing as the ultimately fine print contract, you have to sign >it without being able to read the fine print because it's written in a >language you can't even begin to comprehend until after the deal is closed. >At which point you either agree and follow it's terms or you're put to >death. Is that really a "choice"? WHOA!! Again, other than Hitomi's purge, where is death an option? Lot's of Ise-Zumi have left to wander on their many joining the Monks in the old story arcs. Heck one or two tattooed peeps even joined the Phoenix, so I really disagree here. >It's also incredibly hard to stand against the will of a true kami, they >say you will do this, and all except the most depraved of rokuganni will >follow that command without fault because it's litterally coming from a >god. The *entire* society of the rokugan revolves around serving one of >higher station would fault, and the divine kami are hard to beat in ranking >on the totem pole. > >In end ther result may be a very good thing, since togashi's interest are >for the better of the rokugan, even though his methods are confusing as >hell. Good point and question here. Thanks as always for your insight. Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From jadehunter at msn.com Fri Dec 13 17:22:55 2002 From: jadehunter at msn.com (Jeanne Kalvar) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:37 2003 Subject: [dragon] Seppun Toshiken Evil?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I just wanted to touch on this. For this statement is very true. You can be evil, but very honorable in Rokugan. And in most of Rokugan you are goor or evil depending on what your Daimyo/Clan Champ/Emporer is, because honor is the default condition (see esp the Lion pre DoT). And this is the very reason Dragon is still so appealing to me today. It is my perspective that we care more about Right and Good than any other Clan in Rokugan. Any thoughts here? ------------ From Vortex35 at aol.com Fri Dec 13 21:42:52 2002 From: Vortex35 at aol.com (Vortex35@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:37 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) Message-ID: <146.51f6885.2b2bf4ac@aol.com> In a message dated 12/13/02 5:31:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, amburke6@eircom.net writes: > Might as well ask him to explain why Greedo shoots first.... Because they didn't want Han looking like a jerk, that's why. I only hope they have the original theatrical versions of the movies on the DVDs when they come out so we CAN see Greedo shoot first, then show why 20 years later Lucas wusses out, much like Speilberg does a few years later by changing the shotguns in ET to walkie talkies. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021213/bd7f157d/attachment.html From Togashiheijin at aol.com Fri Dec 13 21:49:39 2002 From: Togashiheijin at aol.com (Togashiheijin@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:37 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) Message-ID: <7a.332bc02b.2b2bf643@aol.com> In a message dated 12/13/02 6:33:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, amburke6@eircom.net writes: > In the best tradition of the Hidden Emperor I didnt write that hypotheisis, > Ninjas did. > ROFLMAO. Thank you. Togashi Heijin Dragon Clan Monk * Tattooed * Angry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021213/5f8f3f23/attachment.html From box at metrocast.net Fri Dec 13 23:33:52 2002 From: box at metrocast.net (Mister Stuff) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:37 2003 Subject: [dragon] good vs evil Message-ID: <650C8276-0F36-11D7-AFD0-003065E72BF2@metrocast.net> Wow. Don't think I've hit the delete key that many times in a while. Still working on a new variant of the water military. Will post decklist when it's a little more polished. -T Togashi Ashido Dragon Clan Monk * Tattooed * Experienced The Wandering Monk * Unique From togashi_akagi at hotmail.com Sat Dec 14 06:11:35 2002 From: togashi_akagi at hotmail.com (akagi togashi) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:37 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) Message-ID: >>No horrible mistakes, but for the sake of argument some ise zumi are born >>tattooed, and some simply have their tattoos appear. (like hogai) Very few >>that start the climb to teh dragon mountains understanding what is about >>to happen, rather they feel a overwhelming need to do so. > >These are like the tainted few who resist the taint. They are completely >the exception not the rule. I'd suspect that they are a bit more common then you'd presume, afterall the heritage table has options for characters to be born with tattoos, yet there's no actual tainted options. Several of dragon's most prominant tattooed men were born with tattoos, or had them appear without being subject to the standard process. (Hogai, Vedau, Kagetora?) And these are all gold legal ones. Being that there are game mechanics included for these in character generation I don't see them as being the exceptions, otherwise it wouldn't appear as options save as NPC material or in the GM section. I will agree that being a tainted ise zumi is like having a black goldfish, there are a few out if you look hard enough there but *extremely* rare. Which adds to the fun of using my tainted IC, he stands out *just* a bit ;) >>Think of tattooing as the ultimately fine print contract, you have to sign >>it without being able to read the fine print because it's written in a >>language you can't even begin to comprehend until after the deal is >>closed. At which point you either agree and follow it's terms or you're >>put to death. Is that really a "choice"? >WHOA!! Again, other than Hitomi's purge, where is death an option? Lot's >of Ise-Zumi have left to wander on their many joining the Monks in the old >story arcs. Heck one or two tattooed peeps even joined the Phoenix, so I >really disagree here. These are the ones that comply at least intially with Togashi's orders, and aren't "broken" or "driven mad" during the inital process. Hence they "accepted" the tattoos, or they would have been destroyed at creation. (possibly imprisioned forever, if you want to go a peaceful route) No where in WOD does it say that they are rehabilitaed and made to be useful members of the clan, but it's pretty clear that they are permanently dealt with. Where's your canon proof? ;) The tattooed phnx I believe fled as the purge was going down, tattooed men also ended up in the brotherhood but by Hitomi's decree they were to be killed for refusing her will and leavng. Mitsu survived the purge yet he defied her orders, however there are no cases of tattooed men (like kokujin) defying Hitomi during the tattoo process and fleeing instead of staying. Those that were tattooed were bound until their loyalty was certain. (and they all had those funky gold eyes) And those very few that could not be swayed, were never seen again. How many people left their clan to become Hitomi kikage zumi? During HE they were so "loyal" (possibly enslaved) to the point that mechanically they would not join their old clan even if you wanted them to. That's rather suspicious to me. Other than during Hitomi's purge (HE), when else have we *ever* seen a non dragon tattooed? (outside of hoshi's monk followers that fled) With the sole exception of Kokujin there are *none* meaning that there is some sort of "loyalty" of unequaled porportion within the ise zumi and kikage zumi. Since gold not a single card outside of dragon has the tattooed trait nor are there any cards outside of dragon that will grant it in any manner, the blood of the dragon is being jealously guarded (rightfully so). Also the story seems to indicate that the isezumi/kikage zumi are bound directly to the person/being who tattooed them to start with. Which would allow the Togashi that were tattooed by Togashi or Hoshi to resist the commands of Hitomi. Though they would hold respect of the others due to their place within the clan/order and the fact they hold a portion of the same power if not the same. Those tattooed by Kokujin would be bound to him instead of the other dragon kami/champions which would explain Kobai's "loyalty" to Kokujin since Hitomi is absent even though he carries her blood as well. (I'm speculating on this part, but it seems reasonable) Anyways just my ever continuing rambling thoughts, :) Akagi _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From togashi_akagi at hotmail.com Sat Dec 14 06:23:37 2002 From: togashi_akagi at hotmail.com (akagi togashi) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:37 2003 Subject: [dragon] Mitsu and Eisai Message-ID: Reading through winds and fortunes two things in regards to the dragon caught my eye. The first was invovling Mitsu, he was witness to the creation of the great crater by the celestrial dragon. He apparrently held a conversation of great length with the dragon, which may well account for who he is talking to in the opening of unfinished business. Is it also noted that the celestrial dragon does not have a known oracle, which leads me to believe that possibly Mitsu is now acting as his chosen orcale within the Rokugan, it'd only be fitting. (Afterall who is more enlightened, not to mention cooler than Mitsu?) The second was concerning dragon shapeshifters, their natural form is that of a small flying dragon, though they often assume human form at will. They are lesser dragons so they are nowhere near as powerful as their celetrial counterparts but they are generally well above humans in scope of their knowledge and wisdom. What does this have to do with Eisai? The shapeshifter dragons trademark is that they cannot speak in human form, which immediately drew a parrallel in my mind. Such a creature would be most fitting for the wife of a greater dragon (or half dragon kami shapeshifter) It'd also explain her presence currently in the heavens alongside Hoshi where mortals are normally barred from travling. Not that either are facts carved in stone but they seem highly suggestive :) Akagi _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From togashi_akagi at hotmail.com Sat Dec 14 06:44:05 2002 From: togashi_akagi at hotmail.com (akagi togashi) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:38 2003 Subject: [dragon] Seppun Toshiken Evil?? Message-ID: Here's how I view each clans role and their concepts, starting with Dragon since this is the dragon list ;) Dragon - has the role of being the enlightened, their goal is to remain apart and impartial to the rokugan as a whole so that they can understand things for how they truly are, not simply how they appear. But as a whole their goal is not to run around playing champions of good, because that would interfere with the dragon remaining apart. Instead the Dragon only act when cosmic balance and harmony is being threated, in order to keep Humanity and the Rokugan alive. The dragon monitors the unseen and defends the rokugan from celestrial inbalance. Pheonix - has the role of being the teachers and worldly scholors. Lion - has the role of being the honorable warrior without fault. Crab - has the role of being the tireless warrior that pursues their duty above all else. Unicorn - has the role of being the empire's outsider, they are also people motivated by passion and the heart. The Rokugan conceals their thoughts and emotions behind carefully controlled faces. The unicorn express all of their emotions freely, a trait that would cost any but an outsider their honor. Crane - has the role of government, this is not refering to the courts, but rather as a whole they oversee the emperor's taxes and the day to day workings of the imperial authority, hence why the emerald championship is prized by the crane over all other posistion within the Rokugan. They are also the ones who defines high culture and honor outside the realm of battle. Scorpion - has the role of being the underhand and putting aside all notions of personal honor and loyalties other than service of the emperor. Toturi's Army - used to have the role of doing what was right and good at the cost of honor and glory, it was Toturi that united the clans to kill their own emperor and stop the clans from destroying themselves for power. Coupled with the balance the Dragon sought to maintain it was natural that heroic dragons like Mitsu, and Daini found a second home in the army. Now this role in a minor part falls to the monkey, who value the good of a situation over the honor and glory that they stand to gain. Mantis- do they have a goal other than plundering everyone? I really don't see why they are a great clan save Toturi's decree, but that's just me. Akagi _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From togashi_akagi at hotmail.com Sat Dec 14 07:04:30 2002 From: togashi_akagi at hotmail.com (akagi togashi) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:38 2003 Subject: [dragon] Seppun Toshiken Evil?? Message-ID: It is my perspective that we care more about Right and Good than any other Clan in Rokugan. Any thoughts here? Actually I've never seen the dragon as champions of "good", I've always seen the dragon as champions of balance, though they favor "good" since it supports human survival. If they were out seeking to fix every woe and smiting every evil they'd be down fighting in the shadowlands or at least working the wall alongside the crab. The dragon only acts when it's required to save everything from destruction, the rest of the time they sit back and carefully monitor aspects of the world that the rest of the empire knows nothing about. An interesting note, in winds and fortunes it talks about how Jigoku (the shadowlands) wants nothing more than to subvert the celestrial heaven, but in order to do so it must first overrun the rokugan. Which reminded my of Togashi's challenge to Fu Leng, he said that he chose all of humanity as his weapon against jigoku, so long as humanity lived then Fu Leng could not proclaim victory over the Hantei. The Rokugan sits centered between all of the realms, it is neither good nor evil, it's influence precisely balances the points between the other realms. Which is only fitting that Togashi chose the Rokugan's realm to be his very weapon against fu leng. Togashi knew that true balance cannot be truly be defeated, though it could be swayed temporaily towards good or evil it always reverts back into balance. This further reinforced my belief that the dragon clan is the defenders of celestrial balance, and in essence they champion the survival of humanity, though they don't focus on being champions of "good". Akagi _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From freelance at onemain.com Sat Dec 14 02:13:57 2002 From: freelance at onemain.com (Shawn Carman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:38 2003 Subject: [dragon] Re: Dragon digest, Vol 1 #701 - 12 msgs References: <20021214062601.24258.27117.Mailman@michonline.com> Message-ID: <001b01c2a340$5ea98e80$1500a8c0@ares> > Actually in all seriousness, we who were around at the > time knew what was going on, but with the retcon/ > rewritings/do over, what is the official version of how > so many out of Clan peeps got their Tats now *officially*? > > ~I haven't seen it addressed at all, it's been silently > swept under the rug and kept quiet as though it never > happened. And of course dragons aren't ones to air > dirty laundery since they want to appear pure and > infallable on all fronts ;) We need to dig deep and > find out what *really* happened for once and not > pretend everything was so pretty. Rich, Shawn, any help???? The particulars of what happened to the folks tattooed against their will in the HE arc will eventually be dealt with in the Enlightened Madness series Rich is writing. Wait and See, folks. ;) Shawn Carman L5R Story Team From togashi_akagi at hotmail.com Sat Dec 14 07:27:12 2002 From: togashi_akagi at hotmail.com (akagi togashi) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:38 2003 Subject: [dragon] Re: Dragon digest, Vol 1 #701 - 12 msgs Message-ID: > > Actually in all seriousness, we who were around at the > > time knew what was going on, but with the retcon/ > > rewritings/do over, what is the official version of how > > so many out of Clan peeps got their Tats now *officially*? > > > > ~I haven't seen it addressed at all, it's been silently > > swept under the rug and kept quiet as though it never > > happened. And of course dragons aren't ones to air > > dirty laundery since they want to appear pure and > > infallable on all fronts ;) We need to dig deep and > > find out what *really* happened for once and not > > pretend everything was so pretty. Rich, Shawn, any help???? > >The particulars of what happened to the folks tattooed against their will >in >the HE arc will eventually be dealt with in the Enlightened Madness series >Rich is writing. Wait and See, folks. ;) > >Shawn Carman >L5R Story Team LOL ask and you shall recieve ;) Shawn, thanks for picking up on this so quick :) With Rich writing all this dragon fic to drool over, I think the only reasonable course of action is to up the ante a bit and give us another Ikoma Sume fic. It'll keep him from thinking he's got the limelight to himself ;) Jon - aka Akagi bearer of the Gaki tattoo _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From togashilove at hotmail.com Sat Dec 14 15:24:34 2002 From: togashilove at hotmail.com (John Panagiotakis) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:38 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: Greetings, "Stephen Muray" wrote: ( Hello Murai-san! It's good to hear from you again! 8) ) >I understand your pain. The Scorpion have gone through a similar >tragedy >recently with traitors following Atsuki rather than Yojiro. > >Bayushi Murai >Scorpion Clan Poet Well, at least you have Traitor's Grove. ;) Our traitors run rampant either in the Shadowlands or in the Shinomen Forest...8( Damn! Take care! ____Togashi Agozatsu____ *Dragon Clan Samurai*Monk*Tattooed* *Acolyte_of_Maths*Storyteller*exp* *Virgin_Steele_Fanatic* *Will only join the Dragon or Scorpion clan* "Each path that is true is dangerous. If there is no one to bar your way, no challenge to overcome, then you know that the choice is honorless." -Hitomi ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From dhanauer at vt.edu Sat Dec 14 08:48:08 2002 From: dhanauer at vt.edu (Donald Hanauer, II) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:38 2003 Subject: [dragon] Mitsu and Eisai In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021214084808.00799b30@mail.vt.edu> >The second was concerning dragon shapeshifters, their natural form is that >of a small flying dragon, though they often assume human form at will. They >are lesser dragons so they are nowhere near as powerful as their celetrial >counterparts but they are generally well above humans in scope of their >knowledge and wisdom. What does this have to do with Eisai? The >shapeshifter dragons trademark is that they cannot speak in human form, >which immediately drew a parrallel in my mind. Such a creature would be most >fitting for the wife of a greater dragon (or half dragon kami shapeshifter) >It'd also explain her presence currently in the heavens alongside Hoshi >where mortals are normally barred from travling. > >Not that either are facts carved in stone but they seem highly suggestive :) > I've been thinking the same on Mitsu for some time now, however this are two holes in your thoughts on Eisai. First comes from the flavor text of Eisai Exp in Soul of the Empire where she does actually speak one line and then becomes silent once again. The other comes from the Monk book for the RPG which actually gives some information on Eisai. Mirumoto Taikishi Dragon Clan Duelist * Toturi's Army Samurai * Wolf Legion Bounty Hunter #486 From jake2002 at sio.midco.net Sat Dec 14 10:18:14 2002 From: jake2002 at sio.midco.net (Eric Jacobson) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:38 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021212133410.06d50880@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <007f01c2a38c$67664620$ae92dc18@midco.net> >Peace is never worth enslavement. I'd much rather have a free mind and >have to fight occasionally than be enslaved and at peace. Well put. In the words of someone famous (I think it was Abraham Lincoln, but I have conveniently forgotten and don't have time today to look it up) "Those who are willing to trade freedom for security deserve neither." Hitomi Jaek Dragon Clan Laughseeker * Shugenja * Monk * Tattooed "You know you're overly analytical when someone says, 'You think too much!' and you ask, 'What does that mean?'" From jake2002 at sio.midco.net Sat Dec 14 10:36:24 2002 From: jake2002 at sio.midco.net (Eric Jacobson) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:38 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin References: <3DFA19E2.2010409@cs.helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <00b901c2a38e$f1496dc0$ae92dc18@midco.net> > You have to realise that telling someone that they are not Dragon > (or anything else, for that matter) because they put some amount of > Shadowlands cards in their deck (or any other reason) is VERY offensive > because people take their alignement very seriously. > Um...I thought the storyline team established this rather nicely with the 3 or less is tainted and more Shadowlands cards make a corrupted deck and would effect the story to match (Shadowlands goals are served and not clan). But I guess that would be just my opinion. Hitomi Jaek Dragon Clan Laughseeker * Shugenja * Monk * Tattooed "You know you're overly analytical when someone says, 'You think too much!' and you ask, 'What does that mean?'" From jake2002 at sio.midco.net Sat Dec 14 10:49:49 2002 From: jake2002 at sio.midco.net (Eric Jacobson) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:38 2003 Subject: [dragon] good vs evil References: <650C8276-0F36-11D7-AFD0-003065E72BF2@metrocast.net> Message-ID: <00fb01c2a390$d1532360$ae92dc18@midco.net> Subject: [dragon] good vs evil > Wow. > > Don't think I've hit the delete key that many times in a while. > Still working on a new variant of the water military. Will post > decklist when it's a little more polished. > I too, hope to playtest some soon. Look forward to your post and will post as well. I think I can find you a good deal on a new keyboard (it's too problematic to get a new delete key, let me tell you ; ). Hitomi Jaek Dragon Clan Laughseeker * Shugenja * Monk * Tattooed "You know you're overly analytical when someone says, 'You think too much!' and you ask, 'What does that mean?'" > _______________________________________________ > Dragon mailing list > Dragon@michonline.com > http://michonline.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dragon > From mkd8 at cornell.edu Sat Dec 14 12:05:10 2002 From: mkd8 at cornell.edu (Matt Dalen) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:38 2003 Subject: [dragon] Monkeying Around With Enlightenment In-Reply-To: <1039808997.3dfa39e5babc1@webmailapp2.cc.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021214114837.01f2a528@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> At 01:49 PM 12/13/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Here's something I put together..my first attempt at an enlightment deck. As >almost all "Big E" decks are, this one is fragile in the opening turns, but >midgame, it rocks the socks. Anyway, have at it. Comments to follow. I've actually been playing around with an Enlightenment deck recently, which has actually won a game via enlightenment! Granted, it was against a Crab deck, which is probably the easiest to enlighten against (little to no PK, they attack a lot so it's easy to get the ring of earth, few duelling tricks so it's not hard to get the ring of fire). I'll post my deck in a little bit. But first, to comment your deck. >Shiro Tamori >Wind: Toturi Sezaru Personally, I prefer using Toturi Tsudao. You need to be able to defend early on, and the favor is an easy way of doing that. And if you work it right, you can get a great card draw engine going without Sezaru. >Personalities(17) >3x Mirumoto Tsuge >3x Tamori Chieko >3x Tamori Hiroko >3x Tamori Shaitung >3x Togashi Kansuke >1x Hoshi Wayan xp2 >1x Kaelung You only have 2 always-monks. That's not enough for casting Aid of the Grand Master. I'd switch out Mirumoto Tsuge for Mirumoto Tachiyama (an almost guaranteed Ring of Fire), and switch out Tamori Shaitung for either Hoshi Takeji or Togashi Iroshi, your choice. >Holdings(19) >3x Gold Mine >3x Jade Works >3x Mystic Dojo >3x Hiruma Dojo >3x Shrine of the Sun >2x Gifts and Favors >1x Oracle of Earth >1x Deep Earth Sanctum Any reason you have the Oracle of Earth? I'd switch it for either Togashi Hoshi or Island Sanctuary... Hoshi's beefy and can cast kihos as a monk, and this kind of deck is generally weak against PK, so being able to cancel Kolat and Geishas is nice. >Regions(1) >1x Togashi's Shrine > >Events(4) >Imperial Gift >In Time of War >Chryanthemum Festival >Regions of Rokugan I'd get rid of the Festival, as it will likely help your opponent more than you - your deck is less dynasty intensive and more fate intensive than most attack decks or crane honor decks, which are relying on their provinces to either get force or to get personal honor for full. Add in another person - I'm kind of fond of Hoshi Chuichi. >-=-=-=-=-=- > >Actions(21) >3x Ambush >3x Block Supply Lines >3x Deadly Ground >3x Dragon Tattoo Cut the dragon tattoos down to 2. With deck search, you'll be able to get them into your hand easily enough, and they're all you need for ring of air (sometimes you don't even need them, if you have 3x hiroko out) >3x Draw From Within If you play with Mirumoto Tachiyama, Draw From Within is not needed. Replace it with a Tsutomu no Shiryo, just in case your opponent has no cards in their hand, and probably 2x Shame (PK is always good.) >3x Iaijutsu Art >3x Night Battle I do think that you have a few too many terrains. If you're card cycling properly, you will only really need 4 of them. Personally, I use 3x Contentious Terrain and 1x Encircled Terrain. >Spells(6) >3x Look Into the Void I don't think Look into the Void is really worth it... I'd ditch them for 3x Gift of the Water Dragon (that way you can jump around to another province, increasing the odds of being able to use the Armor of Osano-wo). >3x Walking the Way > >Kihos(3) >3x Aid of the Grandmaster > >Items(5) >Celestial Sword of the Dragon >2x Armor of Osano-Wo >2x The Armor of Sun-Tao The Armor of Sun-Tao is, in my opinion, a bit too fragile to PK. I'd just go with Superior Tactics. >Rings(5) >Can anyone venture a guess here? :-) > >OK, here's some of the tricks of the deck. Well, actually, most people know >most of the enlightenment tricks so I won't get into that, but the one I like >the most is putting a Dragon Tattoo on Chieko. Since the Tattoo gives her >the >action "Open: Place 1 to 3 tokens .. blah blah", it's considered an innate >ability and you can put one token on at a time, and voila, Ring of Air! That's the normal way to get Ring of Air, but you have so many other spells and kihos in the deck, you don't really need 3 of them - the odds are that you'll use 3 spell effects in a turn at some point anyway. >The hardest Ring for me, it's seemed, is Ring of Earth. If I get lucky >and get >an early Tsuge, I can Dragon Tattoo + Armor of Osano-Wo + Stronghold, and >then >drop RoE instead of taking the prov. Midgame, it seems, I just can't get >Earth >into play because their defenses are too well setup, and when they attack, I >don't have enough stuff to stop them. I might switch to Tsudao, since I can >get the Rings when I need them with the Shrine, and I have plenty of card >draw >in the deck (Hiroko, Chieko, WtW, AotGM, LitV, RotV). Use movement tricks. Gift of the Water Dragon is great. If you can move into a province where they're not, then playing the ring of earth is a whole lot easier, since you don't have to worry about defenders. >Anyway, comments and criticisms welcome. > >Mirumoto Seijitsu Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) Dragon Clan Alchemist ? Shugenja ? Jade Hand Scribe ? Self-appointed Yu Master "Death! Destruction! KITTENS!!!" - allegedly Mirumoto Junnosuke, right before executing his famed "kitten maneuver" at the massacre of Happy Children Village. http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 From gaidin71 at hotmail.com Sat Dec 14 17:19:17 2002 From: gaidin71 at hotmail.com (Michael Iakovides) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:38 2003 Subject: [dragon] A Question Message-ID: I have to disagree here akagi-san. Togashi could see the future for everything in which the Dragon Clan and himself was not directly involved in.If that were not the case, then it would be a moot point would it not? Regards, Michael Iakovides Mirumoto Izo Tainted Tattoed Samurai >How about the repeated passages in WOD that Togashi knows everything that >was and will ever be? I'm certain that he knew Kokujin's role with Hitomi >and he knew what would become of him that we are yet to see. > >There's always that unending scroll mention in WOD that holds togashi's >recordings of everything in rokuganni history and holds information on all >that will be. (and not just human history either) > >But as a whole, there is no solid evidence in most aspects of the dragon, >being the most mystic/enigmatic clan in the rokugan tends not to favor >generating solid evidence, otherwise we might actually be understood ;) > >Akagi - bearer of the gaki tattoo > >_________________________________________________________________ >Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > >_______________________________________________ >Dragon mailing list >Dragon@michonline.com >http://michonline.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dragon _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From mkd8 at cornell.edu Sat Dec 14 12:20:33 2002 From: mkd8 at cornell.edu (Matt Dalen) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:38 2003 Subject: [dragon] Dragonlightenment with Shiro Tamori Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021214120545.01f5abd0@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> Here's my take on a Shiro Tamori Enlightenment deck. So far, it's played 3 games and won one by enlightenment, although I've changed it a bit since then to counteract PK and the like. The first time I played, I go Togashi's Shrine early, used it to grab a ring; my opponent then proceeded to Ruins of Otosan Uchi my Shrine, and Emperor's Underhand to get rid of the ring. I have since added Enlightenments to the deck to make it slightly less vulnerable to that kind of torpedoing. Comments are always welcome, as I've made a few unusual choices with the deck - I don't play with either Imperial Gift or the Celestial Sword, because they dilute the deck. Shiro Tamori Tamori Tsudao Dynasty: 40 cards Hoshi Chuichi Hoshi Eisai exp Kaelung Tamori Shaitung exp Togashi Hoshi exp2 3x Mirumoto Tachiyama (almost guaranteed ring of fire) 3x Tamori Chieko 3x Tamori Hiroko 2x Hoshi Takeji 2x Togashi Kansuke Deep Earth Sanctum 1x Island Sanctuary (I've had problems with Geisha Assassins hitting my important people) 3x Gold Mine 3x Jade Works 3x Mystic Dojo 2x Sanctified Temple 3x The Hiruma Dojo 3x Trading Grounds Ruins of Otosan Uchi Togashi's Shrine Regions of Rokugan Fate: 45 cards (yes, it's more than 40. I think I have enough deck search and the like to be able to afford going over by a bit, and enlightenment is *very* card intensive). Ambush x2 Block Supply Lines x3 Contentious Terrain x2 Dragon Tattoo x1 (I only really need one, in case something goes wrong, and I need to use it to get RoA... usually I can "accidentally" pull off three spell effects in a turn without it) Encircled Terrain x2 Enlightenment x2 Iaijutsu Art x2 Iaijutsu Duel x2 (Just some PK, in case) Shame x2 (more dishonor/PK) Superior Tactics x2 Secrets on the Wind x1 Walking the Way x3 Tsutomu no Shiryo (If their hand is near empty, she and the Secrets can give me the auto-win for the ring of fire, as well as any other duels I might want) Aid of the Grand Master x3 Chasing Osano-wo x2 Gift of the Water Dragon x3 Palm Strike x3 Armor of Osano-wo x2 Drum of Water x2 The 5 Rings Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) Dragon Clan Alchemist ? Shugenja ? Jade Hand Scribe ? Self-appointed Yu Master "Fear the jade flames of my potions, Dark Oracle. You will die for your betrayal!" http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 From Togashiheijin at aol.com Sat Dec 14 16:29:10 2002 From: Togashiheijin at aol.com (Togashiheijin@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:38 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: <127.1d11b475.2b2cfca6@aol.com> In a message dated 12/13/02 3:52:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, ben@strangecompany.org writes: > My point was that both quotes said that without > precautions you would fall to the taint (some paraphrasing due to trying to > combine two sentences into one Actually, the quotes said without precautions you would acquire the taint. Succumbing, once the taint is acquired, is a foregone conclusion. Togashi Heijin Dragon Clan Monk * Tattooed * Angry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021214/3bace6c8/attachment.html From Togashiheijin at aol.com Sat Dec 14 16:32:06 2002 From: Togashiheijin at aol.com (Togashiheijin@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:38 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: <158.18ed4c91.2b2cfd56@aol.com> In a message dated 12/13/02 1:01:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, smuray@nac.net writes: > Tell me, friends, when did the wise Dragon Clan abandon reason for madness? > Fortunately, most still follow the ways of our founding kami - there are a few souls who are quite vocal about disobeying his commands that do not have the courage to make the three cuts, imo. Togashi Heijin Dragon Clan Monk * Tattooed * Angry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021214/2a2d4ff5/attachment.html From jnscott at hotmail.com Sat Dec 14 22:16:26 2002 From: jnscott at hotmail.com (Jimmy_Neal Scott) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:38 2003 Subject: [dragon] A togashi departs...for a time Message-ID: I am requesting that my subscription to the mailing list be suspended as I will be heading to Afghanistan on Monday, Dec. 16th for a one year stint. Just consider it a trek to the Burning Sands for a little enlightenment. If by some chance I can get access to e-mail on a regular basis I will request a reactivation. Togashi Niru I started out with nothing & I still have most of it left. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From Vortex35 at aol.com Sun Dec 15 02:54:48 2002 From: Vortex35 at aol.com (Vortex35@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:38 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: In a message dated 12/14/02 11:09:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, jake2002@sio.midco.net writes: > "Those who are willing to trade freedom for security deserve neither." It was Benjamin Franklin. "Those who give up a small part of their liberty for a little personal security, deserve neither liberty, nor safety." ~Mirumoto Tasuki~ Dragon Clan Falconer - Samurai - Double Chi - Tactitian - Toturi's Army Will Join a Toturi's Army or Wolf Legion player for 2 less gold You may play Hawks and Falcons for Free "I may be a Dragon... but I know when to run with the Pack" (Formerly Mirumoto Ryu) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021215/f02e5b7a/attachment.html From a.jack at attbi.com Sun Dec 15 08:24:08 2002 From: a.jack at attbi.com (a.jack@attbi.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:39 2003 Subject: [dragon] A togashi departs...for a time Message-ID: Niru San, Be careful out there. The Burning Sands, whether they be Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan are always a pain... (I've spent 9+ months of my life in Saudi for the USAF) ... may you return refreshed and in one piece Brother. Good luck on that email access too. =) Hitomi Mozu > I am requesting that my subscription to the mailing list be suspended as I > will be heading to Afghanistan on Monday, Dec. 16th for a one year stint. > Just consider it a trek to the Burning Sands for a little enlightenment. If > by some chance I can get access to e-mail on a regular basis I will request > a reactivation. > > Togashi Niru > > > > I started out with nothing & I still have most of it left. > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > _______________________________________________ > Dragon mailing list > Dragon@michonline.com > http://michonline.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dragon From teiran at prodigy.net Sun Dec 15 02:22:33 2002 From: teiran at prodigy.net (Teiran) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:39 2003 Subject: [dragon] A togashi departs...for a time References: Message-ID: <000e01c2a413$2132b3a0$858ffea9@dragon> Well we will miss you Niru, I for one have found you very interesting, and extremely helpful to a inexperienced dragon like myself. I owe you on for the cards, so if you should need anything just ask. -Togashi Teiran Tattooed Monk * Samurai We are the Dragon, We make our own path. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimmy_Neal Scott To: Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 9:16 PM Subject: [dragon] A togashi departs...for a time > I am requesting that my subscription to the mailing list be suspended as I > will be heading to Afghanistan on Monday, Dec. 16th for a one year stint. > Just consider it a trek to the Burning Sands for a little enlightenment. If > by some chance I can get access to e-mail on a regular basis I will request > a reactivation. > > Togashi Niru > > > > I started out with nothing & I still have most of it left. > From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Sun Dec 15 10:40:27 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:39 2003 Subject: [dragon] A togashi departs...for a time Message-ID: Greetings, May the fortunes smile over you during your journey. I will keep the fires lit to guide you home... . In all seriousness, coming from an ex-Cavalry Officer who has an MI LTC wife finishing a tour in the Balkans, good luck and Godspeed. Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan >From: "Jimmy_Neal Scott" >Reply-To: dragon@michonline.com >To: dragon@michonline.com >Subject: [dragon] A togashi departs...for a time >Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 22:16:26 -0500 > >I am requesting that my subscription to the mailing list be suspended as I >will be heading to Afghanistan on Monday, Dec. 16th for a one year stint. >Just consider it a trek to the Burning Sands for a little enlightenment. >If by some chance I can get access to e-mail on a regular basis I will >request a reactivation. > >Togashi Niru > > > >I started out with nothing & I still have most of it left. > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > >_______________________________________________ >Dragon mailing list >Dragon@michonline.com >http://michonline.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dragon _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Sun Dec 15 11:30:19 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:39 2003 Subject: [dragon] Re: Dragon digest, Vol 1 #701 - 12 msgs Message-ID: Greetings, >From: "Shawn Carman" > >The particulars of what happened to the folks tattooed against their will >in >the HE arc will eventually be dealt with in the Enlightened Madness series >Rich is writing. Wait and See, folks. ;) > >Shawn Carman >L5R Story Team Domo arigato... Message-ID: <34A76C12-1004-11D7-A1AF-003065E72BF2@metrocast.net> Greetings. On Saturday, December 14, 2002, at 09:20 AM, Matt Dalen wrote: > From: Matt Dalen > Date: Sat Dec 14, 2002 9:20:33 AM US/Pacific > To: dragon@michonline.com > Subject: [dragon] Dragonlightenment with Shiro Tamori > Reply-To: dragon@michonline.com > > Here's my take on a Shiro Tamori Enlightenment deck. So far, it's=20 > played 3 games and won one by enlightenment, although I've changed it=20= > a bit since then to counteract PK and the like. The first time I=20 > played, I go Togashi's Shrine early, used it to grab a ring; my=20 > opponent then proceeded to Ruins of Otosan Uchi my Shrine, and=20 > Emperor's Underhand to get rid of the ring. I have since added=20 > Enlightenments to the deck to make it slightly less vulnerable to that=20= > kind of torpedoing. Comments are always welcome, as I've made a few=20= > unusual choices with the deck - I don't play with either Imperial Gift=20= > or the Celestial Sword, because they dilute the deck. > Looks very solid. I might recommend replacing Secrets with another=20= Sup Tacts. I think they'll go the distance better for you. Also, do you=20= have problems playing Gift of the Water Dragon, because of its Force=20 req? Otherwise, looks good. How does the gold scheme work out for you? > Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) > Dragon Clan Alchemist =95 Shugenja =95 Jade Hand Scribe =95 = Self-appointed=20 > Yu Master > "Fear the jade flames of my potions, Dark Oracle. You will die for=20 > your betrayal!" > http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 > -T Togashi Ashido Dragon Clan Monk * Tattooed * Experienced The Wandering Monk * Unique= From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Sun Dec 15 11:35:09 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:39 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: Greetings, >From: "Eric Jacobson" > > > You have to realise that telling someone that they are not Dragon > > (or anything else, for that matter) because they put some amount of > > Shadowlands cards in their deck (or any other reason) is VERY offensive > > because people take their alignement very seriously. > > > >Um...I thought the storyline team established this rather nicely with the 3 >or less is tainted and more Shadowlands cards make a corrupted deck and >would effect the story to match (Shadowlands goals are served and not >clan). > >But I guess that would be just my opinion. Nah, way too obvious Jaek-san ;)!! I mean there was no direct relationship between the corrupt Scorpion winning GenCon and the story was there ;p?!?!?! Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Sun Dec 15 11:20:15 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:39 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) Message-ID: Greetings, >From: "akagi togashi" > >These are the ones that comply at least intially with Togashi's orders, and >aren't "broken" or "driven mad" during the inital process. Hence they >"accepted" the tattoos, or they would have been destroyed at creation. >(possibly imprisioned forever, if you want to go a peaceful route) No where >in WOD does it say that they are rehabilitaed and made to be useful members >of the clan, but it's pretty clear that they are permanently dealt with. >Where's your canon proof? ;) ARGH!!! I could have sworn Togashi Jodome non-exp was tattooed... ;). Now it is very clear what happens to those not strong enough to handle the tattoo, Pg 23 WotD- "If he is weak, the blood consumes him, his mind breaks and he is killed." You are correct on that part of the process ;). Now for the rest of the Monks, the do mention two paths on Pg 20, the asctic and the wordly. Monks are free to pursue enlightenment by either path. I would note that the wordly order let's the Monks go out into Rokugan to pussue enlightenment "and spend many years in the wicked world." So based on the documentation I see it as you are strong enough and wanted the tatto, or sadly you are not and are killed. For those strong enough I do not see any reference or hint that obedince will be enforced. Where is your canon proof to the contrary ;)? In all seriouness Akagi I do enjoy dicussions with you. You are very wise and present things in a simple non-confrontational manner. Dark or not you help all of us become wiser... . All that said what I have learned is that my inspirational character in the game (Togashi Yokuni who was in my very *first* L5R pack of cards) is my guide post. He sacrificed his life to give us a chance not to be enslaved by the Taint. I can do no less than try to do the same... . Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From ilan.muskat at mail.mcgill.ca Sun Dec 15 02:49:59 2002 From: ilan.muskat at mail.mcgill.ca (Ilan Muskat) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:39 2003 Subject: [dragon] Re: Dragon digest, Vol 1 #701 - 12 msgs References: <20021214124156.4360.31915.Mailman@michonline.com> Message-ID: <000d01c2a40e$93841700$6401a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> > With Rich writing all this dragon fic to drool over, I think the only > reasonable course of action is to up the ante a bit and give us another > Ikoma Sume fic. It'll keep him from thinking he's got the limelight to > himself ;) > > > Jon - aka Akagi bearer of the Gaki tattoo But we *likes* the Ikoma Sume fic, don't we, preciousss. ...or do you mean Ikoma "Ponyboy" Otemi, about whom we care truly very little (besides that he may cement a Lion-Scorpion alliance)? [Drools at the thought of a Lion-Scorpion-Dragon alliance] Sume fics are cooooooool. Enlightened Madness fics are stellar too, but Sume fics? We're *totally* spoiled when we get to choose between two plot threads like those. Matsu Kinra (Ilan Muskat) Lion Clan Niten Samurai * Negotiator * Dragon Clan Student "There is always another way." From mkd8 at cornell.edu Sun Dec 15 09:47:52 2002 From: mkd8 at cornell.edu (Matt Dalen) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:39 2003 Subject: [dragon] Dragonlightenment with Shiro Tamori In-Reply-To: <34A76C12-1004-11D7-A1AF-003065E72BF2@metrocast.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021214120545.01f5abd0@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021215094033.01f5f120@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> At 12:07 AM 12/15/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Greetings. > >On Saturday, December 14, 2002, at 09:20 AM, Matt Dalen wrote: > >>From: Matt Dalen >>Date: Sat Dec 14, 2002 9:20:33 AM US/Pacific >>To: dragon@michonline.com >>Subject: [dragon] Dragonlightenment with Shiro Tamori >>Reply-To: dragon@michonline.com >> >>Here's my take on a Shiro Tamori Enlightenment deck. So far, it's played >>3 games and won one by enlightenment, although I've changed it a bit >>since then to counteract PK and the like. The first time I played, I go >>Togashi's Shrine early, used it to grab a ring; my opponent then >>proceeded to Ruins of Otosan Uchi my Shrine, and Emperor's Underhand to >>get rid of the ring. I have since added Enlightenments to the deck to >>make it slightly less vulnerable to that kind of torpedoing. Comments >>are always welcome, as I've made a few unusual choices with the deck - I >>don't play with either Imperial Gift or the Celestial Sword, because they >>dilute the deck. > > >> > > Looks very solid. I might recommend replacing Secrets with another Sup > Tacts. I think they'll go the distance better for you. Also, do you have > problems playing Gift of the Water Dragon, because of its Force req? > Otherwise, looks good. How does the gold scheme work out for you? The only time I ever really use Gift is when I am trying to get the rings of water or earth, in which case I want enough force to take the province anyway. It can target 4-7 of my people naturally, depending on how many cards are in my opponent's hand, and with Armor of Osano-wo and the stronghold pump, I can put anyone but the Chieko, Hiroko, or Takeji into Gifting range. So far, I'm finding it useful. I'll see how the Secrets works out... it's a recent addition, to see how well it will work with Tsutomu and the Shames... I figured that I wanted to put in a little PK, and this helps with slowing down honor runners and getting the ring of fire as well. I wanted another source of dishonoring besides the Iaijutsu arts, in case I came up against a duelling deck and needed tricks other than just Tachiyama. >>Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) > >Togashi Ashido Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) Dragon Clan Alchemist ? Shugenja ? Jade Hand Scribe ? Self-appointed Yu Master http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 From MechWar13 at aol.com Sun Dec 15 11:21:28 2002 From: MechWar13 at aol.com (MechWar13@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:39 2003 Subject: [dragon] (Rich/Shawn?) New Fiction Message-ID: In a message dated 12/13/02 6:48:37 PM, togashi_akagi@hotmail.com writes: << either that or she was playing some seriously demented game of pokemon with various clan members :) Akagi >> All the peeps taken were descendents of the Kami's of the clan. or at least that's my guess. -Hitomi (shinjo) Tashima - obviosly shinjo -Hitomi (yoritomo?) Juppun - Osano-wo? -Hitomi (doji) Reju - Doji -Hitomi (Kitsu?) Nakuso - Akodo maybe -Hitomi Kokujin -Fu Leng -Hitomi -Togashi -Hitomi Dajan - Shinsei? -Hitomi Kazaq - The Akasha I don't know who represented the scorpion, crab, or the pheonix. I know Kagetora was always a dragon so he's out. same with Bujun. Any one have any back ground on Kobai, or nyima's predescessor? From mkd8 at cornell.edu Sun Dec 15 11:30:24 2002 From: mkd8 at cornell.edu (Matt Dalen) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:39 2003 Subject: [dragon] (Rich/Shawn?) New Fiction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021215112608.01fa6480@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> At 11:21 AM 12/15/2002 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 12/13/02 6:48:37 PM, togashi_akagi@hotmail.com writes: > ><< either that or she was playing some seriously demented game of pokemon >with >various clan members :) > >Akagi > >> > >All the peeps taken were descendents of the Kami's of the clan. or at least >that's my guess. Well, I don't think they're descendants... Kokujin is most likely not a descendant of Fu Leng, and Togashi only had one child to my knowledge, Hoshi. >-Hitomi (shinjo) Tashima - obviosly shinjo >-Hitomi (yoritomo?) Juppun - Osano-wo? >-Hitomi (doji) Reju - Doji >-Hitomi (Kitsu?) Nakuso - Akodo maybe I always figured on him as a Phoenix, with the anti-Phoenix clause, but I could be wrong >-Hitomi Kokujin -Fu Leng >-Hitomi -Togashi >-Hitomi Dajan - Shinsei? >-Hitomi Kazaq - The Akasha > >I don't know who represented the scorpion, crab, or the pheonix. I know >Kagetora was always a dragon so he's out. same with Bujun. Any one have any >back ground on Kobai, or nyima's predescessor? Iyojin was a former crab, I believe. Kobai I *think* was always a dragon as well, but I could be wrong. Akuai, too, was an in-clan convert. Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) Dragon Clan Alchemist ? Shugenja ? Jade Hand Scribe ? Self-appointed Yu Master "Fear the jade flames of my potions, Dark Oracle. You will die for your betrayal!" http://people.cornell.edu/pages/mkd8 From loki_lamesang at hotmail.com Sun Dec 15 17:31:16 2002 From: loki_lamesang at hotmail.com (Loki) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:39 2003 Subject: [dragon] (Rich/Shawn?) New Fiction References: Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: To: > I don't know who represented the scorpion, crab, or the pheonix. I know > Kagetora was always a dragon so he's out. same with Bujun. Any one have any > back ground on Kobai, or nyima's predescessor? Iyojin was a Crab (see his flavour). I don't know about Kobai. Mirumoto Loki Dragon Clan Youth. Samurai. Yojimbo. Kaze no Ryu Agent. Emissary to the Phoenix Reborn From dhanauer at vt.edu Sun Dec 15 11:40:01 2002 From: dhanauer at vt.edu (Donald Hanauer, II) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:39 2003 Subject: [dragon] (Rich/Shawn?) New Fiction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021215114001.00799100@mail.vt.edu> At 11:21 AM 12/15/02 -0500, you wrote: > >In a message dated 12/13/02 6:48:37 PM, togashi_akagi@hotmail.com writes: > ><< either that or she was playing some seriously demented game of pokemon >with >various clan members :) > >Akagi > >> > >All the peeps taken were descendents of the Kami's of the clan. or at least >that's my guess. >-Hitomi (shinjo) Tashima - obviosly shinjo >-Hitomi (yoritomo?) Juppun - Osano-wo? >-Hitomi (doji) Reju - Doji >-Hitomi (Kitsu?) Nakuso - Akodo maybe >-Hitomi Kokujin -Fu Leng >-Hitomi -Togashi >-Hitomi Dajan - Shinsei? >-Hitomi Kazaq - The Akasha > Except that Hitomi was Mirumoto and Nakuso was Kitsu. Thus neither fall under their clan's Kami. And the Mantis are an offshoot of the Crab, not descended from their own Kami like the other great clans. And this still leaves no Bayushi or Shiba for account in this list. ;) Mirumoto Taikishi Dragon Clan Duelist * Toturi's Army Samurai * Wolf Legion Bounty Hunter #486 From loki_lamesang at hotmail.com Sun Dec 15 17:34:38 2002 From: loki_lamesang at hotmail.com (Loki) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:39 2003 Subject: [dragon] (Rich/Shawn?) New Fiction References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021215112608.01fa6480@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Dalen" To: >>-Hitomi (Kitsu?) Nakuso - Akodo maybe > >I always figured on him as a Phoenix, with the anti-Phoenix clause, but I >could be wrong Togashi Shinseken has an anti-Phoenix clause. Nakuso won't join the Lion. He's a former Kitsu, driven from his lands by Okura's deeds. >Iyojin was a former crab, I believe. Kobai I *think* was always a dragon >as well, but I could be wrong. Akuai, too, was an in-clan convert. Akuai was an heimin, if I recall correctly. >Tamori Shosei (Matt Dalen) Mirumoto Loki Dragon Clan Youth. Samurai. Yojimbo. Kaze no Ryu Agent. Emissary to the Phoenix Reborn From TattooedSamurai at cs.com Sun Dec 15 11:40:36 2002 From: TattooedSamurai at cs.com (TattooedSamurai@cs.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:39 2003 Subject: [dragon] (Rich/Shawn?) New Fiction Message-ID: <142.52a29e7.2b2e0a84@cs.com> In a message dated 12/15/2002 9:23:32 AM Mountain Standard Time, MechWar13@aol.com writes: << All the peeps taken were descendants of the Kami's of the clan. Or at least that's my guess. -Hitomi (shinjo) Tashima - obviously shinjo -Hitomi (yoritomo?) Juppun - Osano-wo? -Hitomi (doji) Reju - Doji -Hitomi (Kitsu?) Nakuso - Akodo maybe -Hitomi Kokujin -Fu Leng -Hitomi -Togashi -Hitomi Dajan - Shinsei? -Hitomi Kazaq - The Akasha I don't know who represented the scorpion, crab, or the phoenix. I know Kagetora was always a dragon so he's out. same with Bujun. Any one have any back ground on Kobai, or nyima's predecessor? ______________________________________________ >> ******** yes :) -Hitomi ( scorpion) Kobai -Hitomi (crab) Iyojin -it may be that kokujin was considered togashi, he was togashi kokujin first. - I don't believe that there was a phoenix.....as you have stated possible maho, maybe she sacrificed an agasha which is why they returned to the phoenix. From togashi_akagi at hotmail.com Sun Dec 15 16:39:11 2002 From: togashi_akagi at hotmail.com (akagi togashi) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:39 2003 Subject: [dragon] (Rich/Shawn?) New Fiction Message-ID: >-Hitomi (shinjo) Tashima - obviosly shinjo >-Hitomi (yoritomo?) Juppun - Osano-wo? >-Hitomi (doji) Reju - Doji >-Hitomi (Kitsu?) Nakuso - Akodo maybe >-Hitomi Kokujin -Fu Leng >-Hitomi -Togashi >-Hitomi Dajan - Shinsei? >-Hitomi Kazaq - The Akasha Nakuso - cardwise was formerly Kitsu lion, though he may have akodo blood Hitomi Iyojin - hida crab I vaguely recall Kobai being part of either the seppun or miya descent, though I could be entirely wrong. Which would be Hantei Togashi Hoshi - togashi - bayushi As for phnx having some of the agasha clan oath over, yet some remained may in some vague fulfill the having dragon and phnx bllodline in the same pool. Since there was one tattooed agasha in their ranks. (Agasha Kusabi) And I have a fuzzy memory of Akuai originally being from the phnx, though I'm uncertain. Akagi _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From togashi_akagi at hotmail.com Sun Dec 15 16:46:37 2002 From: togashi_akagi at hotmail.com (akagi togashi) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:39 2003 Subject: [dragon] (Rich/Shawn?) New Fiction Message-ID: either that or she was playing some seriously demented game of pokemon with various clan members :) Except that Hitomi was Mirumoto and Nakuso was Kitsu. Thus neither fall under their clan's Kami. And the Mantis are an offshoot of the Crab, not descended from their own Kami like the other great clans. And this still leaves no Bayushi or Shiba for account in this list. ;) Hitomi carries the blood of togashi in her via her tattoo, not to mention she carried his soul for a time as well. Togashi Shinseken - Phnx - shiba? agasha? isawa? asako? Togashi Hoshi - Dragon/ Bayushi (his mother was bayushi) Nakuso is kitsu by text but there is plenty of intermarriage between families of teh same clan so he may well have Akodo blood. Akagi _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dhanauer at vt.edu Sun Dec 15 12:44:21 2002 From: dhanauer at vt.edu (Donald Hanauer, II) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:39 2003 Subject: [dragon] (Rich/Shawn?) New Fiction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021215124421.0079fb80@mail.vt.edu> >Togashi Shinseken - Phnx - shiba? agasha? isawa? asako? >Togashi Hoshi - Dragon/ Bayushi (his mother was bayushi) >Nakuso is kitsu by text but there is plenty of intermarriage between >families of teh same clan so he may well have Akodo blood. Except that Hoshi was no longer a member of the Dragon during this time period, if you recall. In Jade (and Pearl), his baseline was Unaligned as was his Experienced 1 when it was printed in the House of Tao starter. > Mirumoto Taikishi Dragon Clan Duelist * Toturi's Army Samurai * Wolf Legion Bounty Hunter #486 From ramela at cs.helsinki.fi Sun Dec 15 20:47:42 2002 From: ramela at cs.helsinki.fi (Anssi Ramela) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:40 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin References: <3DFA19E2.2010409@cs.helsinki.fi> <00b901c2a38e$f1496dc0$ae92dc18@midco.net> Message-ID: <3DFCCE4E.5010102@cs.helsinki.fi> Eric Jacobson wrote: >>You have to realise that telling someone that they are not Dragon >>(or anything else, for that matter) because they put some amount of >>Shadowlands cards in their deck (or any other reason) is VERY offensive >>because people take their alignement very seriously. >> >> > > Um...I thought the storyline team established this rather nicely with the 3 > or less is tainted and more Shadowlands cards make a corrupted deck and > would effect the story to match (Shadowlands goals are served and not clan). Yes and they said that those players are still considered members of the clan whose stronghold they are playing, not Shadowlands players. BTW, even thoug the Shadowed Tower did get access to the Steel Throne, the Scorpion Clan as a whole got recognition from Tsudao, so it wasn't only a Shadowlands victory. The Shadowed Tower, as far as I remember, doesn't serve Daigotsu. If anyone could point me to canon material proving me wrong, I'd appreciate it. -- Anssi Ramela I punch like a girl? So what? I only fight against little girls anyway. Choose yellow. Choose green. Choose two swords. Choose bare shoulders. Choose Dragon. (Choose the Dark Side, [if it's fun]) From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Sun Dec 15 20:02:11 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:40 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction/Shadowlands Followers of Kokujin Message-ID: Greetings, >From: Anssi Ramela > >Yes and they said that those players are still considered members of the >clan whose stronghold they are playing, not Shadowlands players. > >BTW, even thoug the Shadowed Tower did get access to the Steel Throne, >the Scorpion Clan as a whole got recognition from Tsudao, so it wasn't >only a Shadowlands victory. Read your own words here, " ...wasn't only a Shadowlands victory." And who says that Tsudao recognizing the Scorpion is not the Shadowlands plans. I mean in that story it is very clear that the Shadowlands has strong influence in the Scorpion Clan, neh? Also remember this thread is still alive because you blew up at Izo-san using profanity saying how rude it was to imply that certain people by playing corrupt were not playing their Clan and here you just acknowledge at least part duplicity. Jaek-san was dead on when he quoted the story teams guidelines for corruption. GenCon may have been won with Scorpion colors, but Shadowlands goals were served and you have just acknowledged as much. You have been paying attention here lately to what the Taint is really about, and how it is intelligent, and grows only stronger? You can yell at me now, rant, or do whatever :(. The system is in place to determine whose goals you are furthering should you win at L5R. We all have to deal with this simple fact. Take care, Rob- Mirumoto Shokan _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From SLcpUnK420002 at aol.com Sun Dec 15 15:14:33 2002 From: SLcpUnK420002 at aol.com (SLcpUnK420002@aol.com) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:40 2003 Subject: [dragon] A togashi departs...for a time Message-ID: <127.1d21d9d4.2b2e3ca9@aol.com> In a message dated 12/15/2002 5:28:20 AM Central America Standard Ti, a.jack@attbi.com writes: > > Niru San, > Be careful out there. The Burning Sands, whether they be Saudi Arabia or > > Afghanistan are always a pain... (I've spent 9+ months of my life in Saudi > for > the USAF) ... may you return refreshed and in one piece Brother. Good luck > on > that email access too. =) > > Hitomi Mozu > > I am requesting that my subscription to the mailing list be suspended as > I > > will be heading to Afghanistan on Monday, Dec. 16th for a one year stint. > > > Just consider it a trek to the Burning Sands for a little enlightenment. > If > > by some chance I can get access to e-mail on a regular basis I will > request > > a reactivation. > > > > Togashi Niru > Farewell Togashi Niru-San. Mirumoto Jon Dragon Clan Tattooed Samurai*Madman*Crab Clan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20021215/d4175c2e/attachment.html From irishcream113 at hotmail.com Sun Dec 15 22:10:42 2002 From: irishcream113 at hotmail.com (Dennis Griffith) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:40 2003 Subject: [dragon] Shadow of the Dark Moon Storyline Win Message-ID: Just wanted to let you guys know, I won a Shadow of the Dark Moon storyline tournament yesterday. My deck was a pretty standard honor runner that used the iron mountain, with Sezaru as my wind. In fact, my deck hasn't really changed since i won the season of the Dragon tournament with it a few months back. (Which also means, no corruption) Well, that's about it. Later. Togashi Daini Dragon Clan Ise-Zumi _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From amburke6 at eircom.ie Fri Dec 13 23:02:13 2002 From: amburke6 at eircom.ie (Ann Burke) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:42 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Fiction(little RANT) References: Message-ID: <010601c2a2fb$adcdc570$1c00000a@parents> > >Jeez Rob be reasonable, you cant expect Rich Wulf to explain that without > >10 > >different factions getting offended by whatever explanation he comes up > >with. Might as well ask him to explain why Greedo shoots first.... > > Man that was a revision that really pissed me off, Han shooting first was > one of the main things that added grit to his character and distanced him > from the shiny good-goody Luke. :) > > Either way *someone* had to shoot first, but damn that revision sucked. > > Akagi Actually according to offical Star Wars source material ( a Star Wars comic) Han doctored the film himself for evidence to exonerate himself of a civil suit he'd been pressed with by Greedos mother. He really did shoot first...but it was just so damn incriminating. Hida Eoin Crab Clan Koshi Learned in the Ways of Star Wars..and I so nearly play Dragon because of it, hell if Mitsu gets anymore Jedi like I may start...hmm where are my two Palm Strikes? From appie666 at hotmail.com Sat Dec 14 12:27:00 2002 From: appie666 at hotmail.com (Togashi Masurao) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:42 2003 Subject: [dragon] [Fiction] Coming of Destiny Message-ID: This is quite an exciting story for me as well as several other people. So I am not going to spoil anyhting, just read! For those of you who read this story and don't know the background, check at the end for a nifty and handy appendix with basic info on the characters. Also down there are links to sites where you can find my stories. Enjoy! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Coming of Destiny, a story of heroes "Do not take me wrong, Nodotai-san, I am happy to see you again," Kitsuki Saibankan said. "Your story is just a bit unbelievable." Hiruma Nodotai smiled and said, "In any case we are here to help you, perhaps evidence to support my story will present itself. Until then let us wait for my Scorpion friends to arrive." "You are expecting us?" a voice full of unbelief asked from the open door. "Nodotai-sama?" a lighter voice said almost immediately after the first. The six people in the hall of the small estate turned around to see who had arrived. They saw a woman and two men who were obviously Scorpion, with a man in unadorned green robes standing behind them. Nodotai took a step toward the new arrivals and spread his arms as if he would embrace them and said, "Ah, Kangaku-san, you have come after all! And you've brought more people to help us." The largest of the Scorpion men -he was about as tall as Nodotai and Saibankan- stepped forward and looked at the six people before him: the famous heroes Hiruma Nodotai and Kitsuki Saibankan, a rather dense-looking Hida, two Unicorn shining with youth -or inexperience- and a Ratling armed like a samurai. He frowned slightly at the strangeness of the company, but he knew what was at stake and expected them to know it as well. "My name is Bayushi Yacho. I take it that you all know why we are here. I want to pledge our aid to destroying what we are up against." With those words Yacho removed his mask. Saibankan frowned and said, "Even I am a little surprised about this course events, but I will not turn down your aid. Perhaps some introductions are in order?" * * * "What is Or'rum'tikir-san doing, Nodotai-sama?" Kangaku asked, struggling with the Nezumi name. "He is trying to find the scent of the attackers," Nodotai explained. "Ratlings have a keen sense of smell; some can even leave each other messages 'written' in smell." Yacho spared the sniffing Nezumi a backward glance before continuing to scan the surroundings. "This is the place where you turned the tables on them? I find it amazing that such simple duplicity fooled you and here of all places." Xingto shot Yacho an angry glare and hissed, "What's that supposed to mean, Scorpion?" "Just that you should have been suspecting the deception," Saibankan interrupted. "Nubei-san should have, but I guess he was too distracted. It matters no longer at this point in time." "Think nothing of it, Xingto-san," Yacho said. "We cannot fault you for not being a Scorpion." "Just as we can't fault you for being one, Yacho-san," Kiniko quipped with a grin. "Though I may be enjoying this banter," Nodotai suddenly said, "I find it to be hardly productive. I suggest we split up. I suggest Chousen, Or'rum'tikir, Yacho and Mutomo go with Saibankan on the search for evidence. Then Xingto, Kiniko, Akiko and Kangaku can come with me and we will try to find out if there are people who might know something about these villains." The assemblage looked at traded looks with each other and with nods from Yacho and Saibankan the group split up. * * * "Your stance is wrong Kenshuko-chan. Turn your feet farther outward." "Alright, alright," Kenshuko said with mock desperation, "but this is an awkward stance, sensei!" "The name is Masurao," the ise zumi replied with a grin, "If you keep calling me sensei other people might want me to train them as well." "That would be considered an honor by some, sensei." "And it is considered a burden by me," Masurao bluntly stated. "Now pay attention or I'll never be able to teach you the basics of Niten. Live up to your father's name, will you?" "Which one? Ronin or Ni-Ken no Tsuru? Both apply and both mean little good among my Clan, Masurao," Kenshuko said, her voice a little angry. "It depends on your point of view. The fact a Clan would take the effort to ostracise someone can be considered an honor in itself." Kenshuko smiled wryly as she adjusted her stance and said, "Even I was spared that honor, remember? That should speak for my father's renown." "I have a feeling that it will take a turn for the better; we must not forget that he had a student," Masurao said thoughtfully. "Ujirou," Kenshuko remembered, "let's hope he has more success than I." Masurao laughed and said, "Come now, Kenshuko-chan, I am not through with you. I'll make a famous swordmaster of you yet." "Now that is something I wouldn't want to miss," Kenshuko said and started the kata. Between moves Kenshuko asked, "By the way, Masurao-kun, where did you learn to defend yourself with the potent weapon known as the fan?" "My time as a courtier in Otosan Uchi was exciting, but not so exciting that I did not have a lot a spare time." "If you had not spent so much time meditating and training, you could have actually gotten out of the court some times, Masurao-san." "And you are telling me that you got out every day, Shoriko-san?" Masurao jested. The aging woman who had been watching the two people practise smiled, creasing her face with thin wrinkles. "No, but I had a lot of... acquaintances to keep acquainted." "And you didn't?" Kenshuko asked Masurao curiously, on a chiding tone. "A few, but then again I was just an unofficial representative," Masurao answered. "Speaking those other rare few, I do believe it would lighten their aging hearts if you would visit them again," Shoriko said. "I think Toku would be delighted to see you again." "You know Toku?" Kenshuko asked amazed and faltered her kata. Shoriki smiled and answered in Masurao's stead. "You would be amazed to learn who Masurao knows." Masurao coughed several times drawing the attention back to him. "My student needs her training. So please stop disturbing us," he said with mock sincerity. "Then I am afraid I will arouse your ire, Masurao-san, for I need a word with you." The new voice came from a small, elderly man with proud bearings. His colors identified him as Scorpion, his mon as Soshi and scroll satchel as a shugenja. "My name is Soshi Samo and there is something that requires your attention." "Speak, Samo-san, you have my ear," Masurao quickly replied. "Very well. I shall try to be brief, but the story is strange, so please bear with me. Some time ago the daimyo I was assigned to as advisor got a strange message from his wife's uncle. It considered something brought to this man's attention by Hiruma Nodotai, one of the Heroes of Rokugan. Apparently some great evil escaped through Oblivion's Gate during the battle against the Lying Darkness there. Now my daimyo has gone to Unicorn lands to aid another Hero, Kitsuki Saibankan, in defeating this evil." "This is all very interesting, Samo-san, but why do you need me? It seems to me that there are more than enough capable men already there." "It does not have to and normally it wouldn't have, but I've been given a vision. Though cryptic, I am sure that my daimyo would not survive the encounter. Unless you defeat this evil, thus the vision guided me to you." "And it is your belief that I am the only one that can defeat this evil?" Masurao asked. "I would not stoop to say you are the only one, but I am sure you can defeat it and you are the only one I could find," Samo said. "I must vouch for him, Masurao-san," Shoriko said. "Samo-san is regarded a respected seer and fortune teller." Samo shook his head. "I do no longer consider myself as such, but this vision is not of my own devising. It was given to me by the Fortunes and that is the only reason I trust it.." Masurao nodded and said, "Then we shall travel to Unicorn lands and see what we can do." "I thank you very much, Masurao-san. Let me tell you what you need to know," Samo said relieved. * * * "They left few-few tracks, but they left plenty smelly smell nonetheless," Or'rum'tikir remarked. "One of them is definitely like you, Saibankan-san and Nodotai-san. Once dead-dead, but now restored to the flesh." "The must be quite stealthy, to have escaped the monks' notice," Chousen thought aloud. "Or they bribed them," Yacho bluntly stated. "I don't think so, sama," Mutomo said carefully. "The air kami have been manipulated here not too long ago. They are far more abundant here than the other elements. I think they may have used magical deception." "No," Saibankan said flatly. "They are as capable as Chousen-san suggests. Perhaps they did bribe the monks, as well as use illusionary magics, but that's just to lure us into underestimating them." Yacho slowly began to smile. "Marvellous! Such logic," he said with a broad smile. It was only now that Saibankan noticed the astounding difference between the two faces Yacho had: one true and hardly ever seen, the other serving him better than any mask could. Suddenly Chousen said, "Do you think they use maho, Saibankan-san?" "I have seen no evidence of such, but I would not rule it out. Why do you ask, Chousen-san?" "I have helped the Kuni on several occasions in rooting out small Bloodspeaker groups. They are hard to find because they travel around a lot. People like that never remain in the exact same spot for long, but they do stick to a particular region." "Then let's hope our friends can find out more with the peasants," Yacho said. * * * "Nobody seems to know about them," Kangako said with a sigh. "Or they don't want to tell us," Akiko added. "Why would the peasants hold out on us?" Kiniko asked, hurt evident in her voice. "Do we not protect them from harm?" "Perhaps not in their eyes," Xingto said gravely. "I think they fear us more than those we are looking for. Though you and I know why Nubei-san had a village burned down, the peasants do not. Our opponents do not need much to convince the heimin we are not to be trusted." "You are a shugenja," Akiko said to Kiniko. "You can ask the kami to pry the information from the heimin's thoughts." "I doubt that will be necessary, Akiko-san," Nodotai interrupted. "Xingto-san was nearly right in his assumption, but in one case he was mistaking: the heimin do not fear us more. Our quarry must be near, else the peasants wouldn't be so afraid to tell us. The question 'where?' remains." "Let us discuss this with my husband and the others," Akiko said. "It is nearly the appointed time on which we would be back at the estate." * * * "Uhm, Masurao-kun, how are we going to get to Unicorn lands?" Kenshuko asked hesitantly. "I mean, horse riding is not one of my favorite pass-times." "Don't worry," Masurao said on mischievous tone, "I intend to walk." "Walking?" Kenshuko said full unbelief. "But wasn't this urgent?" "Exactly. Just watch," Masurao said and incanted several mystical syllables. At his words a large portal yawned into existence. Through it Kenshuko could see nothing, except for something akin to a long winding path. "Follow me, Kenshuko-chan," Masurao said with a lopsided grin, "but stay close. It is easy to get lost when walking the Way." * * * "We discovered nothing. Or'rum'tikir confirmed one of them returned through Oblivion's Gate, but they had covered their physical extensively. We got no clue about where they can be," Yacho explained. "The peasants were too afraid to tell us anything. We concluded they had to be somewhere close," Kiniko said. "But there is no place to hide well. No hills or mountains; no forests large enough to stay hidden in and the only nearby city is too small to stay there unnoticed for more than a few days." "Why don't you tell them what you know, Kangaku-san?" Nodotai said. "Kangaku-kun, what does he mean?" Akiko asked confused. "Well... I was thinking... And I belief they might've been right under our very noses," Kangaku 'confessed'. "I think they are hiding in one of the villages." "They must think we wouldn't suspect them of such simple deception again," Saibankan thought aloud. "And the villagers fear destruction of their homes, as happened before..." "Which village is the right one?" Chousen asked. "Perhaps Or'rum'tikir can sniff them out?" "No," Yacho said. "I doubt they'll leave tracks as easy as that. They'll know we are here by now, if they are any good. We'll have to find a way to find out where they are hiding." * * * The entire estate was filled with silence as the group was thinking about the situation at hand. Infrequently one would speak up and put forth an idea, but so far none were fruitful. "I am going to get some fresh air," Mutomo suddenly said and walked outside. A lot of them we're starting to consider the option of their opponents using maho. He could not tell them how he knew so much about it, it would arouse unnecessary suspicions. "You are a Chuda, aren't you?" Saibankan's voice suddenly rang through the air. Mutomo turned around startled by voice and statement. "How did you know?" "You have the features and bearing of an Isawa, but your accent and behavior are different. What 'betrayed' you though, was that each time someone mentioned maho, you flinched. Do not worry, I won't tell anyone." "Is their a lineage you can't distinguish, Saibankan-san?" Mutomo asked with a sigh and wry smile. "Maybe there isn't, though I do wonder about your lord, Yacho." Saibankan said locking eyes with Mutomo. "He must have some Crab blood, yet there something more distinct about him." Mutomo's eyes betrayed nothing and he simply stated, "Ask him yourself. It is not my place." "At least you understand loyalty, Mutomo-san," Yacho said as he stepped into the small courtyard. "Leave. I would have words with Saibankan-san." Mutomo bowed and went back inside. "It is not easy to skulk away with four other Scorpion around," Yacho said. "There are only two full-blooded Scorpion here and you're not one of them, Yacho-san," Saibankan said. "Why are you, a minor daimyo, here? What is your interest in this all? Or is it a matter of more than simple prestige?" "Our intentions will stay our own. Be glad we are here to help!" "I've got Nodotai to thank for that. Perhaps he could help me out with identifying your lineage as well." "If you need to know so badly, Saibankan-san, then let me tell you. You would find out yourself anyway. I am the descendant of the last man to carry the Heichi name. He was seduced by a trained Scorpion before his retirement." Saibankan's eyes widened for a single moment in slight surprise. "A descendant of the Boar Clan? Fascinating. It will be interesting to see if this daring Scorpion plot will be successful." Yacho only nodded and entered the estate. Saibankan spared a last glance up at the stars of the now darkened sky before following Yacho back inside. * * * "Report," a dark brooding voice boomed. "They have gathered more people to help. A Chuda and four Scorpion at the least, as well as a certain Hiruma Nodotai," the lithe man said, bowing before his master. "The Dragon is still there too." "A pity." "My lord?" a woman clad in dark clothes asked. "A pity they are going to die for nothing." The broad man standing in the corner smiled. "When?" The woman again. "Soon, this will end soon." * * * Kenshuko carefully took another step on the Way. Masurao had little trouble with it, but the surroundings played tricks with the young Crane's sense of balance. She placed her foot for the other once more, but stumbled. Letting out a small yelp, Kenshuko fell, expecting to tumble into oblivion. .... Masurao's firm hands would not have her fall and quickly and gently grabbed her arms to keep her standing. "Th-thank you, Masurao," Kenshuko stammered. "Perhaps we should have used horses after all." Masurao smiled comforting and put an arm around Kenshuko. "This may feel awkward, but I can't have you falling off the Way. Imagine what Nikkan would say!" “Imagine,” Kenshuko repeated, feeling a strange embarrassment as the Dragon continued to hold her in his hands. He smiled once more, with that simple, boundless smile…there was nothing that she could not see through beside him. There was no reason to be afraid. Finally Kenshuko felt reassured enough to smile and continued the journey in the monk's safe embrace. * * * "Wh-who are you?" the peasant man asked warily. "I am Kuoi and this is my son, Yube," Akiko said and indicated Kangaku. "Why are you here?" The man was more assured, but not yet trusted them. "Because that Nubei character burned down our home! My son and I had to slave away in the city before we were allowed to come here. All that for a few hoodlums!" "Keep your voice down, Kuoi! You don't want to be punished!" "Punished?" Kangaku asked, mock fear on his face. "But I thought that magistrate was gone. You said he was gone, mother!" "Hush, child," Akiko said with a soothing voice. "Would you please explain your words?" The peasant sighed and looked around with haunted eyes, when he was sure there was no one else within earshot he whispered, "The ones the magistrate was after have been living in the village centre. They threaten us not to tell anyone outside the village, but since you're moving here you should know." Akiko put her arms around Kangaku and said, "Thanks for telling us this." "Finally," Yacho exclaimed softly as he was looking on from a distance. "She's given us the signal." "About time too," Chousen growled. "This is the seventh village we've been to in two days." "Now we wait until night time," Nodotai concluded. "Let us get some rest." * * * After hours Kenshuko was finally able to step onto solid ground again. She almost felt like kissing the earth, but looked up at the evening sky instead. "How long did we travel? It is dark already." "Oh, about two days," Masurao remarked. "But I don't feel tired at all..." "Not surprising. You slept for quite a while. You stumbled because you were tired. I carried you until you awoke. From that point we walked together." Kenshuko moved her hand through her hair and smiled uncomfortably. "I 'slept'?" she asked sarcastically, knowing Masurao meant she had fainted; the second time in his presence. It had to be him. "What now?" "Now we're going to find what we're after." * * * "Are the preparations made, Kiniko-san?" Saibankan asked. "Yes, the air kami have surrounded the village centre and are stopping sound from entering through their barrier. Mutomo is almost finished erecting the wall around the building, then we can get out the heimin and then confront our nemeses." "Good," Saibankan replied. "Nodotai-san?" "Akiko and Kangaku have already convinced the villagers and the youth is now on his way to alert the magistrates." "Excellent. Chousen-san?" "Our horses are hidden and Or'rum'tikir has set theirs loose. They will not be able to flee. We are ready for battle, Saibankan-san." "Indeed we are," Saibankan said grimly. "Let us go." "May we live in interesting times," Xingto mused aloud. Everyone nodded. * * * "What is this?" the gigantic man in a black cloak laughed. "Nine fools have come to die on our blades?" "They are great fools, master," a large samurai said with a gruff voice. "Two of them were with the failure, Nubei," a black clad woman mused. Two identical, lithe and athletic men just stood and smiled. The last, a man dressed in flowing black robes could've been a statue for all his motion. "We will defeat you and rid the world of your evil!" Saibankan shouted, surprising his companions with his sudden outburst. "Ah, Kitsuki Saibankan," the obvious leader said. "You live again? No matter, I defeated you then, what makes you think you can win this time? Even with their help." "You are an arrogant fool," Yacho suddenly said, his face a mask of conviction and persistence. "You do not know whom you face!" "And neither do you! But me show you something interesting..." The giant of a man removed the hood of his cloak and his mask. "Gaijin," Xingto gasped. The man was blond and had sapphire blue eyes, which shone with an icy cold: the cold of death. He smiled and said, "You will never know the truth. Prepare to die ignorant." "But I do know... Marrick!" shouted an unknown voice. "What! Who knows my name?" the gaijin bellowed in rage. "I do," an ise zumi said as he stepped into the village centre, followed by a Crane woman. "It is a simple gaijin name, for a petty murderer." "How dare you insult the master!" the gruff samurai yelled, spittle flying from his mouth. His other companions remained silent. "Shall I relate the truth to them?" the warrior-monk chided. "No," Marrick said. "Allow me the pleasure... As you have seen I am no Rokugani. Where I came from matters not, just that I got here. It was about eight hundred years ago that I came through the Exile's Road, welcomed by the violence of unknown people. I carried a sword, stolen from a 'sorcerer'. With it I defended myself and it made me stronger as I killed. Soon entire villages fell before my blade." After these words Marrick withdrew a strange weapon from his robes. It was like the gaijin swords the Unicorn sometimes used, but slightly longer and heavier by the looks of it. It emanated a strange aura that filled the group of heroes with dread and it had an almost blood-red sheen to it. Marrick looked at the stunned and confused expressions of his attackers, his eyes chilling them more than death ever could, before continuing. "Your samurai did not tolerate this and a group dispatched by the Dragon Clan killed me. However, I awoke, blade at my side, to the sounds of battle all around. Something killed me, but again I awoke the next day and this time I killed several before dying. This went on and on and I grew stronger through the blade: it had become an extension of me essence!" For a moment the monstrous gaijin let the silence linger, but then his cold voice spoke again. "However, I was suddenly drawn back to the world of the living by a maho-tsukai seeking vengeance. He was surprised to see me: 'gaijin are not part of our Celestial Pattern', he said. So the only conclusion could be that the absorption of Rokugani essences had made me one of you! I could be reborn! Time and again, until I would be invincible..." Marrick's features twisted into a spiteful sneer and he hissed, "It was the same maho-tsukai that sent me back to Toshigoku before he died of wounds inflicted by me. The next chance came when a portal simply appeared. We could step through it and our flesh was restored and we lived once more! Of course, it matters not that you know all of this. I will kill you and add your powers to mine, Son of Fire!" Everybody looked at Masurao, whom Marrick clearly addressed. "Oh yes, Togashi Masurao, I know of you as you know of me. Your powers are like a shining beacon to me!" Not noticeable to most present, Kenshuko raised an eyebrow at these words. Marrick saw and said, "Oh yes, little Crane. I know of his powers. You see, I absorbed a lot of people. Some of them are not even natives to this realm, Ningen-do. I once happened upon a spirit, who actually turned out to be a sliver of the Dragon of Fire," Marrick said, smiling devilishly at the memory. "It so happened that this little piece knew of Masurao's powers. Others I added to myself have had the power to see into people's soul and see the power of their inner self. To that vision Masurao was a shining fire just beyond the horizon..." "...But now I am here, so prepare for defeat," Masurao stated tersely. "Now you are here," Marrick laughed, "you will be consumed. You will die!" "Enough!" It was Saibankan who had drawn his ancestral no-dachi, Masamichi. "This blade has waited centuries to taste your blood again! Today it shall!" It was Yacho who actually started the assault with a loud kiai. He, Nodotai and Saibankan charged. Through the sudden chaos Chousen and Or'rum'tikir moved to flank the opponents. Marrick met the three attackers head on, defending with only his strange, straight sword. The two lithe samurai intercepted Chousen and Or'rum'tikir, while the large samurai occupied himself with fighting Xingto. Kiniko seemed frozen, but Mutomo was working on a spell. But then he too felt the powerful atemi strikes the woman used on him. Mutomo was likewise paralysed and only Akiko's timely intervention saved the two shugenja. The butei attacked with her ninja-to, driving the other woman back. Marrick's shugenja managed to summon the air kami to form a small whirlwind that blew Yacho, Nodotai and Saibankan against the wall. It was the only spell he got off, for a small dart suddenly lodged itself into his throat. Kangaku appeared through the door opening and received a knowing smile from Nodotai. Without further delay Kangaku went on to help his sister. Marrick suddenly whirled around and lunged his blade through the gasping shugenja. "You are worthless! Give me your power!" As the blade pierced the shugenja's body he could feel a sensation, like a gentle pulling, inside. The gentle pull, however, soon turned into a maelstrom, bent on sucking every last bit of his essence in. He tried to scream, but luckily he could only gasp, as he slowly felt himself draining away. On that moment he knew that he would not simply lose his life, but his very essence, his entire being and that he would be cast out from the Celestial Pattern. Perhaps this was his punishment for serving Marrick Marrick's face split into a horrendous smile as he could feel the shugenja's essence flow into him. A slight shuddering passed over his body as the essence was moving into him, like fine sake moving through the throat and into the stomach. It settled after a few seconds the sensation ended and for a moment Marrick glowed a sickly red and his follower dropped to the floor, dead. Kenshuko suddenly drew her sword and charged Marrick, horrified by his deeds to the point she could no longer control herself. The large, gruff samurai saw the Crane's attack and backhanded Xingto across the room and ran towards his master. He caught the blade with his own body and fell to the floor, dying. Kenshuko gasped in horrified surprise and was batted aside by Marrick, who drove his sword into the dying samurai as well. "Fool," he said after the man died smiling. He looked around to see the fighting had stopped. His servants stared at him with mixed horror and hatred. "Master... why?" the woman stammered. "You are but tools, serving no purpose other than strengthening me," Marrick said gleefully. Again Yacho suddenly yelled, "Akiko, Kangaku get the... get Kiniko, Xingto and Mutomo to safety. We'll finish this." Xingto was about to protest when he saw Saibankan's eyes. They told him that he did not see him again, so he left. Akiko took the shugenja outside, helped by Marrick's terrified followers and Kangaku. Though Saibankan's form and technique were nothing short of perfect and his rage now focused and in check, he seemed to unable to harm Marrick. The strikes he got through the gaijin's defense did not seem to harm him at all. When he was cut across the chest, the large Dragon staggered backwards and Or'rum'tikir stepped in. "A Ratling? Fighting me? I've never consumed one of yours," Marrick said with a foul smile. "And you never shall!" Or'rum'tikir said, focus clearing his mind and straightening his tongue. The Nezumi swordsman fell into a duelling stance, but did not wait and launched at Marrick, his twin blades slashing down. Marrick met the blades with his own, his powerful arm more than capable to withstand the Nezumi's force. As he felt his swords slide along his opponent's blade, Or'rum'tikir gathered his strength and pushed himself up into the air just before his tsuba met with the gaijin steel. He made a somersault and kicked backwards, hitting Marrick square in the back. When he landed he immediately crouched low and swept the legs from underneath the gigantic man. The move actually caught the gigantic gaijin off guard, but he twisted in mid-air and landed on his shoulder blades. He pushed himself up with incredible strength and landed on his feet with amazing nimbleness. He screamed enraged and made a backhand motion at Or'rum'tikir, who was pummelled by powerful winds and knocked against the wall. Marrick smiled foully again and said, "My followers serve me well, even in death. Come now and show me what the rest of you is worth." Yacho, Nodotai and Chousen traded glances and nodded, ready to defeat Marrick or die. But it was not meant to be. * * * In the past moments Masurao had help Kenshuko onto her feet and for several moments his burning, unreadable eyes looked into hers. Kenshuko did not know what she could be seen there, but their contact was broken when Masurao softly pressed a kiss on her forehead. He turned around and walked towards Marrick as a warm sensation passed through Kenshuko's body, soul and spirit. She hardly noticed his words, "This won't take long. Wait for me." * * * Marrick took one large step towards Nodotai and Yacho, when suddenly Chousen lunged at him. "Pesky gnat," the gaijin giant spat as he dodged the attack and kicked the fierce Crab away. When he turned around, he faced Masurao. "Finally. I had thought you saw the futility of this fight and had left." "Futility?" Masurao said incredulously, letting the word linger in the air for a moment. "Your evil will end today." "Very well then," Marrick said with a chuckle. "Perhaps you should put some action behind your words." Masurao simply smiled and nodded, but didn't move otherwise. "Well now, I am going to have to wait for the action or shall I go take a nap?" Marrick asked cynically. "Oh, what the hell, I will just go and get you myself!" With a roar that sounded more beast-like than man-like Marrick charged Masurao and brought his sword down on him. Masurao simply sidestepped the attack and lashed out with his flat hand, hitting him in the neck with a cracking sound. He whirled away from his attacker and faced him, passive once more. Marrick bellowed in rage and turned around, his long blond hair dangling for his feral eyes. "Clever little bastard," he hissed. "If you want to play that game, don't forget I know the rules as well. I have several Niten masters within..." Masurao said nothing and simply let his hand shoot out towards Marrick. His hand struck nothing but air, but the bolt of fire spring forth from his fingertips caught Marrick by surprise and squarely in the chest. The gaijin was hurled back by the impact and only the wall stopped his flight, though barely. A throaty growl escaped from Marrick lay and he slowly stood. His predatory gaze settling on Masurao's unassuming pose once more. Outside the battle hope glimmered among the onlookers, but they did not speak. "I will see you dead and on my blade, Masurao," Marrick growled and he launched himself at Masurao. His blade missed its target, but Marrick's fist caught the ise zumi off guard and connected with the monk's jaw, sending him through the sky. Masurao grunted and twisted to land on his feet, he did not stop moving and in a blur of motion and sound he withdrew his swords. As soon as the blades left their saya they went ablaze, fired by Masurao's inner flame that burned stronger than any other did. "Come then and test your sword against mine," Masurao said without emotion. Kenshuko was slightly shocked by this display. Masurao had showed her what the swords could do if he wanted them to, but she had never actually seen him use them. Could Marrick be a foe beyond even the warrior-shugenja? The two men walked in circles. Marrick scanned Masurao for any weakness, carefully keeping his unholy sword levelled with the monk's throat. Masurao observed Marrick's motions and breathing, while casually spinning his katana in his hand. Marrick was the first to act, spinning his blade overhead in an attempt to cut off Masurao's head. Masurao deflected the blade and twisted it away with effort, slashing at Marrick with his wakizashi, but the gaijin was already spinning away and his heavy robes made it difficulty to discern his body. With the scent of burning cloth in his nose Marrick snorted disdainfully. He suddenly broke into a flurry of attacks, which forced Masurao on the defensive. The strikes were lightning fast, but accompanied by thunderous power. Masurao could feel the strain on his arm growing and knew that this way he could not last very long. He suddenly bent backwards, Marrick's blade whizzing past his face mere inches. Marrick smiled and said knowingly, "Bend Like A Reed." Masurao grinned and replied, "Wrong." Masurao did not bend backwards fully, but instead found support in a wall and quickly pushed himself forward again, smashing his head into Marrick's face. The gaijin staggered backwards, holding his bloodied nose with his free hand and cursed in a foreign language, "Verdomme!" He immediately slashed with his blade again and though it wasn't a good attack, it did open up a thin line across Masurao's chest. Masurao didn't seem to notice the wound as blood trickled out, but out of his view Kenshuko become more and more worried by the second. Never before had she seen Masurao being wounded before. She trembled with fear, but kept silent. Marrick's blade glowed red for a split-second and he said, "Now it has tasted your blood, it will want the rest as well." "Do not think that you will find salvation in that weapon, Marrick," Masurao said flatly. For a moment Marrick just looked at the blade as if seeing it for the first and then smiled, "We care to think differently." Masurao shrugged his shoulders and slashed his sword at Marrick. Again he was to far away, but now a wave of flame coursed towards Marrick. The gaijin smiled and let the flames come to him. When the wave was a few feet away Marrick roared in defiance and summoned his powers. A slight glimmer could be seen as the wave collided with an invisible force and dissipated with a crackling sound. "Your puny flames will not harm me at all." Masurao did not seem to reply in any way but setting his right foot one step forwards. However he put force behind it and when the foot stomped the ground, the floor split open as some unseen force through it. Marrick barely jumped aside and made a motion as if throwing something. Suddenly a large bundle of a strange substance flew towards Masurao. The monk tried to avoid it, but it seemed to follow his motions and he was hit by it. It suddenly spread out and enveloped his entire body, disabling him and sending him to the floor. The gaijin pushed himself from the floor and stood. He stalked over to his fallen prey and sneered, "Now you die." Kenshuko swallowed deeply, she wanted to help Masurao, but what could she accomplish against a foe with the power of thousands? "We both are shackled, Marrick, but the difference is that I can escape," Masurao said and with an enormous flash the substance covering him burned away. Everybody had to cover or close their eyes and when Marrick reopened them he was facing a standing Masurao again. Marrick raised an eyebrow instead of attacking and asked, quasi-curious, "What do you mean 'shackled'?" "Do you think that the sword is an extension of yours?" Masurao asked. "Do you really believe that you control it? Or that you even cooperate? That weapon has bound you to its will and through you it feeds. It is nothing more than a simple parasite and your are nothing more than its willing host. With this knowledge I shall easily defeat you. Kenshuko was not so convinced about that and neither was Marrick. Marrick almost gagged from laughing and coughed out a sentence. "You may... be able to k...ill me, but I have enough knowledge of this world to be certain of being summoned soon. Or return in some other manner." "Not," Masurao said, and his eyes suddenly flared as he continued, "if I erase you from the Celestial Pattern." "You would never do that!" Marrick hissed. "Do not bluff! I have felt your power and known it. To do such a thing would cause a major disturbance in the fabric of destiny! You cannot risk it!" Masurao simply smiled and looked back at Kenshuko, who then realised the meaning of his kiss: a goodbye! The warm sensation of the kiss suddenly sprang alive throughout her body again. It was a pleasant feeling, but it also filled Kenshuko with a strange dread. It was not something rational, but more like a tugging in the back of her head, something that told her this was not right. There was nothing pleasant about this moment, but why did she feel this way? What power was in the kiss that returned only just now? "No, Masurao! Stop!" Kenshuko screamed, but she could not move. Masurao had physically paralysed her with the kiss as well. Again she screamed and struggled against the effects, but the love empowering the kiss was too strong. "What is he doing?" Yacho whispered as he saw Masurao close his eyes. The large ise zumi's body suddenly begun to shine with increasing fire, wreathing around him in a cloak of flames. Slowly Chousen stood and looked at the scene, when the others came running back inside, ready for anything. Anything except for what they saw. "What are you doing?" Marrick's voice was confused, enraged and scared all at once. "You can't do this! The consequences..." "Are mine to bear," Masurao answered as his body began to emanate so much light that everyone else had to close his or her eyes. A large wave of light passed through the entire chamber and through everyone, leaving them touched with something they could not describe or clarify, but with other things to worry about no one took note. The realisation of his mistake dawned on Marrick as his body was being consumed by the pure light coming from Masurao, and he screamed. * * * "Noooo!" Kenshuko's scream drowned out even Marrick's death throes and rang throughout the entire village. When the blinding light subsided everybody opened his or her eyes again, but there was no trace of either Masurao or Marrick. The centre was silent again, except for Kenshuko's crying. The young woman fell on her knees and slammed her fists on the floor. "Why," she yelled turning her faces upwards as if addressing the Heavens themselves. "Why did it have to be him? Give him back!" From damnukids at yahoo.com Sat Dec 14 09:45:16 2002 From: damnukids at yahoo.com (M S Colson) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:43 2003 Subject: [dragon] Weekly Fiction #52 Message-ID: <20021214174516.94287.qmail@web12701.mail.yahoo.com> Voices By Shawn Carman The bandits had attacked without warning. Their approach had been very carefully coordinated and stealthy enough that at one moment, Kamiya’s band was plodding along slowly and in the next they found themselves surrounded on all sides. Kamiya cursed under her breath. She had hoped that by skirting close to the Lion borders, she and her companions could avoid a situation like this. The Kitsu lands were perhaps three miles to the south at the most. She could make it if she ran, but her companions would surely die. The thought of negotiating crossed her mind only briefly; the look of these men was such that she knew they would leave no survivors. “Give us what we want and we’ll let you live,” one of the bandits lied. “Let the others go,” she said, gesturing to the women, children, and elderly with whom she was traveling, “and you can have whatever you want.” “I don’t think so,” the bandit laughed. “I think we shall take what we want, and your lives as well.” “I have no doubt you will,” Kamiya said darkly. “We will not die easily.” “Bravado from a ronin,” spat the bandit. “Even an unwashed, clanless samurai thinks she can speak down to us.” He turned to favor his comrades with a sinister sneer. “Kill her.” The bandits began moving in. Despite that they seemed to have a clear advantage, they approached cautiously. They were not the fools they seemed, apparently. Kamiya could defeat two or perhaps even three, but she knew she could not stop them all. She would die here, with her only family and a handful of peasants looking on. It was not the death she had imagined for herself, but it would suffice. “What is the meaning of all this?” The question was spoken in a soft, quiet voice, but it somehow echoed across the plain so that everyone heard it. The question was so calm, so strangely out of place, that everyone stopped to see what had happened. For one moment, the bandits and travelers shared their confusion equally. A man in a red robe stood observing the spectacle, his hands tucked casually into his sleeves. Kamiya was certain he had not been there only a moment ago, yet he was regarding the bandits and the travelers as if he had been watching since the beginning. His long, white braids lay draped across his shoulders several times. “Who are you?” growled the bandit’s leader menacingly. “Only a holy man,” the stranger answered. “Why do you threaten these people?” “I threaten who I choose, priest!” A pained look crossed the stranger’s features. “Your anger, your violence…” he whispered. “They offend the kami. Do you not fear their wrath?” The bandit leader had clearly endured enough talk. Blood was in his eyes now, and he moved toward the mysterious shugenja. “The kami should fear me, priest. As should you.” “I fear no man, for the kami are with me.” The shugenja’s eyes blazed. “Let me show you.” Kamiya was not entirely certain what followed. There was a flash of light so bright that she had to look away, and what might have been the first second of a man’s scream. A wave of heat washed over her, and then there was nothing. Kamiya looked back to see the shugenja standing alone in the tall grass, a wisp of smoke rapidly dissipating in the morning wind. She thought that she saw a shadow scorched on the grass in the shape of the bandit, but could not be sure. “These lands are mine,” the shugenja whispered. “All who travel through them are under my protection. Your crimes are at an end.” There was a second flash, this time not so bright. Kamiya saw lightning leap down from the heavens and strike the priest despite the clear morning sky. The electricity arced harmlessly off the man and scattered throughout the field, striking each of the bandits. There was not even time to scream. There was only the briefest sizzling sound, like meat over a campfire, and the scent of burning incense, and then the bandits were gone. Sheathing her katana, Kamiya dropped to one knee instantly, for she had guessed their savior’s name. “Toturi Sezaru-sama,” she said, head bowed, “we are unworthy of your intervention. We are in your debt forever, my lord.” She could feel Sezaru’s strange, dark eyes boring into her very soul. “Rise, Kamiya-san. As I said, all who travel my lands have my protection.” “Thank you, my lord.” Kamiya rose, but maintained a respectful posture. “Those curs would have killed us all.” “Yet you stood against them.” “My father taught me to fight. I could not dishonor him with surrender.” Kamiya glanced back at the elderly man being helped along the road by the other travelers. “Father’s mind… it is no longer in this world. But I remember him as he was.” Sezaru was strangely silent as he regarded the smiling old man’s oblivious expression. “It is a terrible thing, to be denied a father’s guidance.” “He guides me still,” answered Kamiya. “My memories of him guide me, even if his body and mind are failing.” Sezaru turned his attention back to her, and the scrutiny of his stare was almost more than she could bear. “You are traveling to Kyuden Sezaru?” “Yes, my lord.” “Your father will be well cared for there,” Sezaru answered. “And if you wish it, I would have you serve in my house guard. Wisdom and prowess are far too rare to be overlooked.” Kamiya was shocked at the offer. “I… I would be honored, my lord,” she stammered. Sezaru nodded. “I will see to it that you will have accommodations. And now, I must take my leave of you.” With that, there was a rustling breeze, and he was gone. Deep within the structure once known as Kyuden Tonbo was a shrine. It was a private place, one of seclusion and meditation. Sezaru was the only person allowed within the shrine, for it was his sanctuary from the concerns of the world beyond, and no one dared to intrude on this most personal of retreats. Sezaru inhaled deeply, allowing the scent of the sandalwood incense to wash over him, cleansing him of the impurities the mortal world inflicted upon his soul. It was a daily ritual, and one that he needed in order to feel whole. He had retreated to the shrine earlier today than normal. Violence always made him feel unclean, and he needed to purge the sensation from his system. The bandits had earned their grisly fate, to be sure, but it was still an unpleasant act. The Wolf merged his senses with the Void, feeling the universe fall into place around him. He could sense all life around him, from the tiny rodent hiding inside the wall to Koshei, his loyal bodyguard waiting in the chamber beyond. He reached further, sending his perception outside the walls to Kyuden Sezaru and the village outside its walls. He could feel the emotion of the Tonbo who served him. Some felt enormous relief and gratitude toward him for restoring their lands and saving them from the life of ronin. Others bore smoldering embers of resentment deep inside their souls, secretly cursing him for usurping their lands for his own purposes. He regretted that they could not see the wisdom of his actions, but he had no time to assuage their petty concerns. There were greater matters at hand. And that was the crux of the matter. For perhaps the first time in his life, Toturi Sezaru felt genuine uncertainty. It was not a sensation he was accustomed to. He had never lacked direction or purpose, yet now he was uncertain how to proceed. In the time immediately following his father’s death, he had been overwhelmed with a driving desire to find and destroy those responsible for Toturi’s murder. Sezaru had never been a particularly violent man, but the Shadowlands drew his ire like nothing else. The Taint and those that bore it were an affront to the kami. He would not suffer them to live so long as he possessed the power to destroy them. Despite his vow to avenge his father, Sezaru had realized that Daigotsu posed a greater threat to the Empire than perhaps any other in history. It had been Daigotsu, possessing one of his Onisu, who had murdered his father. It had been Daigotsu who had engineered the destruction of Otosan Uchi and the return of the Dark Kami, Fu Leng. Sezaru’s brothers and sister could not stand against Daigotsu. Only Sezaru could stop him. But what would become of his father’s empire while he pursued his vengeance? ((Empires are united with steel. Faith and prayers alone will not suffice.)) Sezaru frowned. He could not recall an Emperor who was also a priest of the kami. But that did not mean such a thing could not be done. In fact, had he not already proven such a thing was possible? His siblings had spent months building their power, acquiring allies and preparing a headquarters from which to launch their individual campaigns to become the next Emperor. He, on the other hand, had constructed his stronghold in a single day, bringing life where there had been only death. In a matter of weeks, the scattered Dragonfly had flocked to his banner along with countless others, all eager to serve Toturi Sezaru. ((You see only what you wish. Your desire betrays your intentions.)) “No,” said Sezaru softly. “I do not do this for myself. The Empire must be protected. I alone am capable. I alone can lead Rokugan through this conflict.” ((You alone can doom them with your false certainty. No mortal can be truly certain what the future holds.)) “Be silent,” Sezaru replied, cursing the strange voice. It was unusual for it to bother him so swiftly after his purification rituals. “I only do what Father would have done. He would want the Empire to be protected from Daigotsu and his filth. He would know I am the only one capable of doing it.” ((Not even you could ever truly know Toturi’s thoughts. His strength of will surpassed even your power.)) “He would want this.” ((Then why did he not declare you his heir?)) Sezaru rose from his meditative posture, quickly severing his connection to the Void. The voice was always stronger when he was within it. More assertive, more combative. His Phoenix Ishiken sensei had once told him that someone as powerful as he would affect even the Void, and could imprint upon it when he immersed himself in it. The voice had first appeared not long after he had learned to summon the Void. What else could it be but a reflection of himself? But there was a painful dagger of doubt that the voice had identified all too well: why had his father not chosen him as heir? His sister was worthy, of course, but dangerously naïve at times. As the eldest son, it was his birthright if Tsudao could not perform the duty, or did not wish to. He loved his sister dearly, but she was not ready, and there was no time to wait. Doubt was unacceptable. Doubt destroyed all it touched, and crumbled the will of even the mightiest mind. Sezaru would not allow it to weaken him. If he could not be certain of his father’s intentions, then he would investigate them. Sezaru drew on the power of the air kami as he had done in the field earlier that morning. With a flickering of the candles in his private shrine, he disappeared, swallowed by the wind. “I must confess that I am very surprised to see you, Sezaru-sama,” Kitsu Juri said as he walked through the halls of Shiro sano Ken Hayai alongside the Wolf. The elderly daimyo’s wrinkled face was brightened with uncustomary joy. “I had begun to think you would never accept our invitation.” “Your indulgence is much appreciated, sensei,” Sezaru said plaintively. “Unfortunately, I have come to ask a favor of you, and time is of the essence. I know your clan has all but endorsed the Shogun. Will your assistance create problems for you with the other families?” Juri chuckled, but there was no humor. “I think you have overestimated the Lion’s commitment, my lord. Many among the Akodo and Matsu support Kaneka, yes, but a sizeable faction who have served in the Legions think your sister a better choice, and many among the Ikoma support Naseru. Our clan is divided in our loyalties more than any other. None loved Toturi as the Lion did, and each of us see a different part of him in his children. As for the Kitsu’s loyalties,” he smiled, “I believe you know that you are the only non-Lion to have trained beside the sodan-senzo in over five hundred years. We do not accept outsiders lightly.” “I am honored, Juri-sama. And I will remember my allies among the Kitsu once Daigotsu and his legions have been crushed. But first, I must ask you a favor.” “You have only to name it, Sezaru-sama.” “I must speak with my father’s spirit.” Juri stopped in his tracks. Sezaru walked a few steps farther before he realized the older man had stopped, then looked back quizzically. “My lord,” stammered Juri. “What you ask… it has never been done. The most favored Emperors ascend beyond the Realm of Blessed Ancestors, into the heart of Tengoku itself. They speak to us when they wish to, not when we wish it. No mortal has ever traveled to the Celestial Heavens without the direct intervention of a Fortune or some other heavenly power.” Sezaru raised an eyebrow. “You cannot help me, then?” The old shugenja rubbed his chin, frowning. “Few passages to Tengoku are known to exist in the mortal realm; most exist only under the protection of the Oracles. It is possible, however, that one exists somewhere in the other Spirit Realms. There is no way to know.” “Where should I begin?” Sezaru’s voice and expression did not allow for doubt. He would accomplish this task. “Meido,” said Juri. “The Realm of the Dead. The souls of those who are deemed worthy ascend to Yomi from there; in Yomi, you may find passage to Tengoku. Your quest must begin in Meido. It will be dangerous, Sezaru. The Fortune of Death is wary of outsiders.” “Then let us begin, sensei.” Sezaru turned and continued down the path toward the Kitsu temples where he had studied long ago. As he had said, time was of the essence. Time in the Spirit Realms was a strange thing. To Sezaru, it felt as if he had been searching for a passage to Yomi for several days. Fortunately, his spirit did not feel fatigue. In the mortal realm, it could have been only hours since he departed, or it could have been weeks. It was of little consequence, as Juri had ensured him the Kitsu spells would keep his body healthy and strong no matter how long his spirit remained abroad. Sezaru did not fully understand the sodan-senzo magic - his link to their bloodline was not strong enough - but he trusted Juri implicitly. Juri had accompanied him to the passage to Meido. The Kitsu daimyo’s spirit form was much different than his physical body. He was a radiant, powerful being with a broad-shouldered frame. His face was that of a hunting cat with a flowing golden mane. Juri’s appearance, however strange, was nothing compared to Sezaru’s. He could not see himself in the Spirit Realms, of course, but any time he had traveled here through Lion ritual or Phoenix spell, others had been taken aback by his spirit form. He was a wolf. Not entirely a wolf, but neither was he exactly a man. His form was much larger than his physical body, towering above most others. His senses were razor sharp, and his features lengthened to resemble the animal whose name he had taken. The wolf had once been a creature of ill omen. That was before Toturi had taken it as his symbol, however. His so-called Wolf Legion had served well in the Clan War and their name was still revered among Imperial circles. So, too, did the towering majesty of Sezaru’s primal, overt power awe all who saw him. Sezaru idly wondered what form his siblings’ avatars would take in this place, were they able to travel here. A serpent? A falcon? A bear, perhaps? There was no way to know. A pity, given the incredible insight such things offered into the inner workings of one’s soul. If little brother Naseru could only perceive others as they appeared here, there would be no challenge left for him in the courts. But of course, he would never possess such a gift - still more evidence of Sezaru’s destiny to guide the Empire. The search for a passage to Yomi was a slow, inexorable process. The souls of those trapped in Meido were of little help, as they walked in a constant fugue state, unable to speak to him with anything that even resembled clarity or coherence. Should Sezaru attempt to communicate with them he would only draw the Emma-O’s ire - something he truly did not wish to risk. Emma-O, the Fortune of Death. The subject of a thousand nightmares and terrifying children’s tales. Some tales regarded him as just as treacherous and sinister as Fu Leng, though his area of influence was much smaller. If Sezaru truly wished to find his way, he would need to locate the Fortune, and speak to him on his own terms. Locating Emma-O had not proven as difficult as Sezaru had imagined. Despite the confused state of most of the realm’s inhabitants, there was one thing they understood perfectly: they each feared their lord and master. The Fortune of Death was a harsh, unrelenting lord, unwilling to allow his subjects any freedom or relief from their endless wanderings. Sezaru imagined that the exodus during the Battle of Oblivion’s Gate must have enraged the Fortune greatly, and wondered how many innocent souls awaiting reincarnation had suffered for it. Emma-O’s palace was not at all what Sezaru would have imagined. It was a drab, uninteresting structure with little decoration. There were no guards to keep it safe, and there were no stewards to inform guests of their role in this place. But then, were such things necessary in the Realm of the Dead? Who would visit here intentionally? The black-armored guards watched Sezaru without fear or surprise. They knew of his arrival. They knew that he would come. The air was heavy with dread and consequence, and Sezaru could sense full well the implications of any insult he might offer his host. The innermost chamber of the gray palace was what Sezaru might call an audience chamber in any mortal structure. Here, it had the feel of a tomb. Again, it was only appropriate. The great being was setting upon a throne of bone-white stone, looking like little more than a discarded suit of ebony armor, but Sezaru could sense the celestial being’s power from here. The Fortune’s posture suggested complete exhaustion, or perhaps defeat. The empty helm where his face should be was covered with one gauntlet. “Hail Emma-O, Fortune of Death.” The Fortune stirred and started from his resting place. A wave of emotions flickered from his being, ranging from outrage to something that Sezaru thought might even be fear. “I knew one day you would return!” But the fury lasted only a moment, and then the expressionless veneer was back. “No. No, you are not he. You are another, but cut from the same cloth. Who dares disturb me in my own home?” Sezaru stepped forward and knelt reverently. “I am Toturi Sezaru, son of the Emperor Toturi, master of Void and Fire. I have come to your realm to seek your wisdom.” Emma-O scowled. “What gives you the right? How arrogant! How presumptuous! My wisdom is my own, and well earned. Why should I allow you to leave this place, much less give you that which you seek?” “My cause is just. I seek the wisdom of the Heavens. I cannot gain it without your aid.” “The Heavens.” Emma-O waved his hand dismissively. “What do I care for them? They do not concern themselves with me. I am unwelcome there. I have chosen to perform a duty that is vital to the Celestial Order, yet what recognition do they offer me? None. Now that they have been attacked in their own realm, perhaps they wish they had acknowledged the Realm of the Dead before, perhaps offered me assistance in containing the Dark Kami. More likely they will see me as a failure, and ignore me all the more...” Sezaru frowned. Something was terribly wrong here. No depiction he had ever seen of Emma-O had shown him like this: weak and frail, paranoid and uncontrolled. “Great Emma-O, are you well?” “I am the Fortune of Death!” he roared, sitting upright in his throne. “How dare you question me!” Understanding dawned on the Wolf. “Daigotsu. When he freed Fu Leng’s spirit… he faced you. He could never have found Fu Leng’s spirit in this place unless… unless he forced you to release him.” “SILENCE!” shrieked Emma-O. The very walls of the castle shook with his rage. “I will not brook such insolence from a pathetic mortal! Your existence is a fleeting memory! I am ETERNAL!” He leapt up from his throne and leveled one long finger at Sezaru. “You will not have what you seek! If I see you in my realm again, you will join my legions forever!” He closed his armored hand into a fist and vanished in a flash of pale light. His servants vanished with him. With Emma-O gone, the dread atmosphere of the castle faded, and to Sezaru it was even more like a tomb than before. Empty, barren, and desolate, it was clearly a place of abandonment and sorrow, not power. For the first time, Sezaru wondered if the Fortune would have been able to help him even if he had wished to. “You are fortunate. Emma-O’s moods of late have been so unpredictable. Quite frankly, I’m amazed he didn’t attack you at once.” For a moment Sezaru could not isolate the voice. Then he noticed a man standing off to the side of the main chamber. His clothing was so faded that he seemed to blend into the background, almost as a part of the castle. No, it wasn’t his clothing. He was faded. But more importantly, he seemed aware of what as going on around him. His eyes, while grey and transparent, but retained a sharpness that Sezaru had not seen in any other soul in the realm, including Emma-O. “Greetings,” Sezaru said with a bow, “I am…” “Toturi Sezaru. I heard. Welcome to the Realm of Waiting, if no one has already offered you such sentiment. And I would guess they have not.” “No, they have not,” agreed Sezaru. “None have seemed to have the presence of mind for basic conversation, much less pleasantries.” “Few maintain the strength for such things, I’m afraid. This place… it saps the will. In time, virtually everyone becomes little more than a wandering shade of their former life.” Sezaru scrutinized the other man. “You seem to have no trouble.” “I,” the stranger said with a smile, “am somewhat unique.” “And you are?” said Sezaru with a hint of impatience. “I am the forgotten child of heaven. I am a spirit cast out from my own body. I am the rebirth of the Empire and its doom.” He smiled again. “I am Hantei Sotorii. It is good to meet you, Son of Toturi.” Sezaru took an involuntary step backwards. “How?” he whispered. “You became Fu Leng.” “I was possessed by Fu Leng,” the spirit corrected. “In a moment of weakness the Dark Kami consumed my soul… and so I came here. I could not ascend to Tengoku because I was not truly dead, and because, all things considered, I was not a very good Emperor. I was forgotten. It is not a difficult thing, to forget the man who nearly destroyed a thousand years’ of civilization. Had I been stronger, or wiser, then I could have resisted Fu Leng’s whispers. Then, I would be worthy. But I am not. So I remain here. Waiting. Forever.” “Bah,” Sezaru said, sneering at the spirit. “I am no stranger to the temptations of darkness. You must have known. In the beginning, you must have sensed what was happening. You could have stopped it. You chose not to. This fate does not seem so terrible, given the enormity of your failure.” “My, you are direct,” observed Sotorii, blinking in surprise. “But you are also correct. In the beginning, I began to hear a voice. Subtle at first, but it grew stronger. Insistent. It urged me to do things that weakened me and made it far simpler for the Dark Lord to take control. I was not strong enough. And my failure was enormous. I have accepted this.” Sezaru did not know what to say. He could never have imagined such a meeting, but if he had, such an attitude would never have been expected. It would be simple for such a spirit to feel outrage and disgust at his fate. Yet he did not. He simply felt sadness. “Do you know how I may ascend to Tengoku?” he asked. Sotorii shook his head. “It cannot be done. In the aftermath of Daigotsu’s attack, every passage has been sealed. None may leave this realm without Emma-O’s permission, and he has not allowed anyone to leave. You will only be spared because you still live. You do not belong here. And, perhaps, because he fears you. You remind him of Daigotsu, I think.” Sotorii studied Sezaru curiously. “And that is what brought me to you. You spurn me for my weakness, but your own battle is not yet done, Wolf. Be cautious.” The Wolf’s head fell. His journey had been for nothing. “I must speak with my father. I need his guidance. I… I must know if my path is true.” “Do you remember your father, Sezaru?” The priest looked at Sotorii strangely. “Of course I do. He died only a short time ago.” “What was most important in his life?” Sotorii asked, his gaze intense. “Rokugan,” answered Sezaru without hesitation. “He would have given his life for the Empire, and did.” “Then you must do that which will protect the Empire,” Sotorii said. “My father loved the Empire, but I cared more about avenging his death than caring for the people of Rokugan. If I had been wiser… well, who knows what might have been.” Sezaru nodded silently. He looked around at his dismal surroundings. “A pity I had to come so far for such simple wisdom.” “Wisdom is always simple,” Sotorii said with a small laugh. “Listening to wisdom is difficult. You loved your father, Sezaru. Do not succumb to pettiness and vengeance. Live a life that would have made him proud.” Sotorii’s features were sad now. “For I know that my father is not proud of me.” Sezaru felt an unexpected wave of pity for the wretched spirit before him. His only crime was that he had been human, but the demands placed upon him were more than any human should bear. It was a crime every man committed. Sotorii had simply been born to a position where it would cause pain and suffering like no other. “Thank you, Sotorii-sama,” Sezaru said, his voice thick. “Don’t thank me,” the spirit said. “Keep our fathers’ dream alive. Triumph where I failed.” “I will,” vowed Sezaru. There was no doubt left in his heart. The soft wind stirred the candles in Sezaru’s private shrine once more as he emerged from the wind’s embrace. He had not been in Meido as long as he had thought. The Kitsu caring for him reported his absence as a mere three days. It was time lost, but not too much. There was still time to do all that he must do. Crossing the shrine, he opened the door. Koshei was still at his post, looking somewhat hungry but otherwise unchanged. Soshi Angai was with him as well. “Welcome back, my lord,” she said, the light reflecting from her silky black tresses “I trust your sojourn was successful?” Her eyes twinkled behind her mask, her curiosity clearly overwhelming. “Angai,” he said, ignoring the question, “gather a half dozen messengers and have their steeds prepared. I have urgent correspondence to be sent.” “At once, Sezaru-sama,” she bowed. She turned and disappeared down the corridor in an instant. ((She is weak. You need no one. Cast her out.)) I will not be swayed, Sezaru said inwardly. You will not deter me from my path. ((Sotorii was a fool. His words lead only to ruination. I have always been with you, and I always will be.)) Sezaru’s eyes blazed. If he was to succeed, there would be no doubt. No mortal could truly know the future, after all. Whether his future held ruination or victory, he would embrace his destiny with certainty of purpose. As his father would have done. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From bowman_rob at hotmail.com Sun Dec 15 11:56:46 2002 From: bowman_rob at hotmail.com (Rob Bowman) Date: Sun May 11 20:52:43 2003 Subject: [dragon] New Alderac Email address Message-ID: Greetings, Just to let you all know my Alderac email address is fully operational and I would greatly appreciate any official correspondence to be sent thru this new email account... rbowman@alderac.com Thank you for your consideration on this matter. Sincerely, Rob Bowman _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus