From tkdyanni at ameritech.net Sun Aug 1 04:38:58 2004 From: tkdyanni at ameritech.net (jon) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 01:38:58 -0700 Subject: [L5R-CCG] test Message-ID: <001001c477a2$fd6860e0$ff24fea9@v2z1v1> test need l5r rares? http://stores.ebay.com/The-Ronin-Trader _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jkkotz at yahoo.com Sun Aug 1 02:47:55 2004 From: jkkotz at yahoo.com (James Kotz) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 23:47:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] AEG day at Games, Comics and Stuff... in Glen Burnie, MD Message-ID: <20040801064755.55173.qmail@web21429.mail.yahoo.com> I apologize for getting this out so close to the tourney date, as I thought I had sent it but it was apparently lost in the vastness of the internet. In addition to the prizes below, we are also having a spring cleaning several months late, and as such, are giving out virtually every promo and prize we have in stock. This includes Season of... boxes and cards, Rivalry cards, Path of Enlightenment cards and tins, Clan T-shirts, and a few Boxes of Greed at the least. AEG Summer Madness! On August 7th, 2004, Games and Comics and Stuff in Glen Burnie, MD is hosting a slew of trading card game tournaments featuring Legend of the Five Rings, Warlord, and the brand-new Spycraft game. Highlighted events include big-prize events for L5R and Warlord, and we?ll be celebrating the release of Spycraft with sealed-deck tournaments all day long. It doesn?t stop with the tournaments, though. AEG artists Beth Trott and Veronica Jones will be on hand for signings as well as displaying original artwork and prints. If you can?t make it by for the events, stop by to meet two of the artists that make AEG?s games great! GCS will be open extended hours to accommodate the mad rush. Our doors will open at 10 AM and won?t close until at least 10 PM. We?ll stay open until the tournaments are done! Pre-register by emailing Ed Sloman or by calling 410.863.7418. The following events will be happening at Summer Madness: Legend of the Five Rings: 11:00 AM - Main Event Diamond Edition Constructed Tournament $10 for pre-registration, $15 the day of the event Double Elimination Max 64 people for this event Prizes: 1st place wins a Hidden City booster box, a Diamond Edition booster box, and an L5R Box of Greed! Many other prizes will be given out to everyone that participates, including promotional cards, card storage boxes, t-shirts, booster packs, and more! 4:00 PM Open Tournament, Age of Man Format (Modified) The Spirit Stronghold will be legal, but will only have 5 Provinces. $10 for pre-registration, $15 the day of the event Double Elimination Max 32 people for this event Prizes: Prizes will be determined by the number of players. Pre-register for both main L5R events for only $15! All Day Foreign Language Reign of Blood Sealed Deck Tournaments Only $12 for 1 Reign of Blood starter and 3 boosters! (language and faction are random) Single Elimination 8 people per event Prizes: 1st place ? 6 Hidden City boosters, 2nd Place ? 2 Hidden City Boosters. All Day Diamond Edition Sealed Deck Tournaments $22 for one Diamond Edition starter and three boosters (starter is random) Single Elimination Eight people per event Prizes: 1st place ? Six Hidden City boosters, 2nd Place ? Two Hidden City Boosters. Warlord 4:00 PM ? Main Event Deima Overlord Challenge $8 for pre-registration, $12 the day of the event Swiss Format, four or five rounds Max 32 people for this event Prizes: 1st place wins at least 24 booster packs of Sneak Attack, plus gets the first chance to challenge the Deima Overlord deck! Even if the winner falls to Deima, he or she will still take home a Siegemaster K?Calden deck. Other prizes include promotional cards, booster packs, and maybe some overlords! Everyone who plays gets something! All Day Flash Tournaments $3 Entry Fee Single Elimination Eight people per event Prizes: 1st place - Seven Sneak Attack Boosters, 2nd Place ? Three Sneak Attack Boosters, Everyone ? Promotional Cards. Spycraft All Day Spycraft Sealed Deck $12 Entry Fee for one starter and two boosters (introductory price) Single Elimination Eight people per event Prizes: 1st place ? Six Spycraft Boosters, 2nd Place ? Two Spycraft Boosters For more information check www.gamescomicsstuff.com, call 410.863.7418, or just reply to this e-mail! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From duchon.philippe at free.fr Sun Aug 1 03:10:11 2004 From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 09:10:11 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Gencon Barcelona: The Hidden Heart of Iuchiban In-Reply-To: <00b801c47753$e2e02db0$0202a8c0@casalorya9s4iy> References: <157.3b329b17.2e3d4e89@aol.com> <04f201c47740$436b3c10$1bd68e3e@tanitsu> <000401c4774a$0f68ace0$9405000a@dragon> <00b801c47753$e2e02db0$0202a8c0@casalorya9s4iy> Message-ID: <20040801091011.65d2183c.duchon.philippe@free.fr> On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 01:12:40 +0200 "Ram?n Pe?a" wrote: > Lion won. Finals was Crane vs Lion. > > You can follow this thread in the Kobune Port: > > http://www.tsuruchi.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5964 > > -Kuni Mon > Nice thread, makes me wonder if I really want to go to GenCon if this kind of attitude is anywhere near frequent among North American players. (too late - got my ticket already) -- Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jkkotz at yahoo.com Sun Aug 1 04:05:46 2004 From: jkkotz at yahoo.com (James Kotz) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 01:05:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Kisada Sensei In-Reply-To: <20040801091011.65d2183c.duchon.philippe@free.fr> Message-ID: <20040801080546.51159.qmail@web21421.mail.yahoo.com> This bringing back of Sensei has pushed me to look at my old bad (which should be assumed, as they are mine) Open/Jade decks. So here goes... Kisada Sensei: If your Family Honor is above 10, you can only gain Honor as the result of battles and duels. Does the Sensei negate all honor gains if I am above 10 when I start to gain the honor? Would it be reasonable to follow Shadowlands rulings about honor gains when I am above 10, as far as being able to redirect the gains, Dirty Politics them, Nagori/Shizue them, etc? Or would the Sensei actually wait until I am about to gain the honor to negate it, so the gain can be reacted to as normal, and then goes poof if I am still going to get the honor after every one has passed? ===== James Kotz BH# 923 OP# 10204 Mirumoto Kentei Shoui to Mirumoto Kenzo Mikhail Sergeitova Tyomny of Sousdal Jason "Vertigo" Carter Banshee Net Skirmisher __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From scruffyryan at hotmail.com Sun Aug 1 04:57:35 2004 From: scruffyryan at hotmail.com (Ryan Freire) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 01:57:35 -0700 Subject: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 Message-ID: >Message: 7 >Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 17:54:18 -0400 (EDT) >From: damourc >Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] Open letter to the designers of L5R and the >To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 > >Sir, > I vehemently disagree. We know that the folks at AEG do indeed read >this list so this is the ideal place to provide them feedback. Now, said >feedback ought to be provided in a responsible, courteous manner I agree. >Indeed, the gentleman that started this thread did so. We, as customers, >owe AEG feedback. That way they can gauge what is going on with >their customer base. > If their sales have been falling off and they have received >no complaints, how do they respond? However, if they have been getting >comments saying "I am unhappy for thus and such a reason." then they can >use that as a basis for making changes and hopefully increasing >participation and sales. I gotta say, nowhere has there been any indication of their sales falling off put forth to the public, and ive seen posts like this steadily throughout the gold arc as well. In addition to there have been several sets they UNDERESTIMATED the demand for and had to print up more. In fact (reaching through memory here) im almost positive ive seen several posts from AEG staffers saying that sales were in fact UP with gold, and again through diamond. That tends to tell me that the majority of their customers are pleased with the work. The commotion over eratta and the new personalities is frankly a bit of overreaction. A lot of people see that the personalities they are getting are vastly different from what they are used to and freak, rather than think of what types of decks the personalities WILL work in. Lion arent getting a bunch of jank in this set, they ARE getting another 4/4 for 7 with a starting family HR, and an ability which if not useful constantly, can sway a game in certain situations. Crane get another unique that rivals toshimoko, and a nonunique tactician with an innate duel AND a personality who makes honor running out of their more pro active stronghold a bit more feasable. Not shabby either. Addressing the issues put forth, they issue more eratta lately because more people are getting into the game, its becoming a lot more competitive what with the bounties being put forth for storylines and by fixing the cards they see the need to eratta NOW instead of waiting ages for an mrp, they reduce the need to tone down the cards a faction using a certain strategy gets in future expansions. You only need to go to the jade hand tourney page to see that the eratta didnt REALLY hurt lion all that badly in the competetive world, despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth, and frankly the results posted in this kotei season have been a lot more evenly distributed than any kotei season ive been involved with. Admittedly only since the beginning of gold. _________________________________________________________________ Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to ?Dig Yourself Out of Debt? from MSN Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0407debt.armx _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jason.coble at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 05:23:01 2004 From: jason.coble at gmail.com (Jason Coble) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 10:23:01 +0100 Subject: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7f3611ad040801022349cd25f5@mail.gmail.com> I think you need to look at that nonunique Tactiction he costs 11 gold. That is a fortune in Lion money. I do not think the person is complaining about personalities as much as 'Doom of the Lion' (TM) er I mean Fury of the Dark Lord. That card as designed targets lion box plus one selection. AEG has acted to fix Lions domination at the beginning of DE thru the begining of HC. However the constant attack on the play style/errata/MRP and designing of cards that directly attack Lions strongdeck types can and will turn some poeple off of the game since Lion has not shown well since the release of HC. Keep in mind there are clan loyal LION players out there who have recieved unplayable or even worse Shadowlands/bloodspeeker cards (as the result of last years Kotei season) the last two sets. I understand that said player is whinning but please take a moment and listen to points being made. AEG had brought Lion low no more bandwagon here. Jason On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 01:57:35 -0700, Ryan Freire wrote: > >Message: 7 > >Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 17:54:18 -0400 (EDT) > >From: damourc > >Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] Open letter to the designers of L5R and the > >To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com > >Message-ID: > > > >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > >Sir, > > I vehemently disagree. We know that the folks at AEG do indeed read > >this list so this is the ideal place to provide them feedback. Now, said > >feedback ought to be provided in a responsible, courteous manner I agree. > >Indeed, the gentleman that started this thread did so. We, as customers, > >owe AEG feedback. That way they can gauge what is going on with > >their customer base. > > If their sales have been falling off and they have received > >no complaints, how do they respond? However, if they have been getting > >comments saying "I am unhappy for thus and such a reason." then they can > >use that as a basis for making changes and hopefully increasing > >participation and sales. > > I gotta say, nowhere has there been any indication of their sales falling > off put forth to the public, and ive seen posts like this steadily > throughout the gold arc as well. In addition to there have been several sets > they UNDERESTIMATED the demand for and had to print up more. In fact > (reaching through memory here) im almost positive ive seen several posts > from AEG staffers saying that sales were in fact UP with gold, and again > through diamond. That tends to tell me that the majority of their customers > are pleased with the work. The commotion over eratta and the new > personalities is frankly a bit of overreaction. A lot of people see that > the personalities they are getting are vastly different from what they are > used to and freak, rather than think of what types of decks the > personalities WILL work in. Lion arent getting a bunch of jank in this set, > they ARE getting another 4/4 for 7 with a starting family HR, and an ability > which if not useful constantly, can sway a game in certain situations. > Crane get another unique that rivals toshimoko, and a nonunique tactician > with an innate duel AND a personality who makes honor running out of their > more pro active stronghold a bit more feasable. Not shabby either. > Addressing the issues put forth, they issue more eratta lately because more > people are getting into the game, its becoming a lot more competitive what > with the bounties being put forth for storylines and by fixing the cards > they see the need to eratta NOW instead of waiting ages for an mrp, they > reduce the need to tone down the cards a faction using a certain strategy > gets in future expansions. You only need to go to the jade hand tourney > page to see that the eratta didnt REALLY hurt lion all that badly in the > competetive world, despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth, and frankly > the results posted in this kotei season have been a lot more evenly > distributed than any kotei season ive been involved with. Admittedly only > since the beginning of gold. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to 'Dig Yourself Out of Debt' from MSN > Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0407debt.armx > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From GojuKaze at wanadoo.fr Sun Aug 1 05:36:05 2004 From: GojuKaze at wanadoo.fr (Goju Kaze) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 11:36:05 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 References: <7f3611ad040801022349cd25f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <004301c477aa$f80cf180$0a321d0a@marmotte> imho, Fury of the Dark Lord is more "doom of MGC" that doom of the Lion. The fact that Lion bas is affected is linked to it's 3 gold SH, hece a lot of personalities are in the bunch. All other clans (not faction, so don't tell me about Shadowlands and rats) SH +3 are out, but SH + 3 is 6 for Lion. It's a hard economy shift for Lion, and a little bit hard to take in, but I expect that Web of Lies (and in small mesure Dawn of the Empire) will correct part of it (no, I don't suggest a 4 Gold Lion SH) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Coble" To: Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:23 AM Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 > I think you need to look at that nonunique Tactiction he costs 11 > gold. That is a fortune in Lion money. I do not think the person is > complaining about personalities as much as 'Doom of the Lion' (TM) er > I mean Fury of the Dark Lord. That card as designed targets lion box > plus one selection. AEG has acted to fix Lions domination at the > beginning of DE thru the begining of HC. However the constant attack > on the play style/errata/MRP and designing of cards that directly > attack Lions strongdeck types can and will turn some poeple off of the > game since Lion has not shown well since the release of HC. Keep in > mind there are clan loyal LION players out there who have recieved > unplayable or even worse Shadowlands/bloodspeeker cards (as the result > of last years Kotei season) the last two sets. I understand that said > player is whinning but please take a moment and listen to points being > made. AEG had brought Lion low no more bandwagon here. > > Jason > On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 01:57:35 -0700, Ryan Freire wrote: > > >Message: 7 > > >Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 17:54:18 -0400 (EDT) > > >From: damourc > > >Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] Open letter to the designers of L5R and the > > >To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com > > >Message-ID: > > > > > >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > > >Sir, > > > I vehemently disagree. We know that the folks at AEG do indeed read > > >this list so this is the ideal place to provide them feedback. Now, said > > >feedback ought to be provided in a responsible, courteous manner I agree. > > >Indeed, the gentleman that started this thread did so. We, as customers, > > >owe AEG feedback. That way they can gauge what is going on with > > >their customer base. > > > If their sales have been falling off and they have received > > >no complaints, how do they respond? However, if they have been getting > > >comments saying "I am unhappy for thus and such a reason." then they can > > >use that as a basis for making changes and hopefully increasing > > >participation and sales. > > > > I gotta say, nowhere has there been any indication of their sales falling > > off put forth to the public, and ive seen posts like this steadily > > throughout the gold arc as well. In addition to there have been several sets > > they UNDERESTIMATED the demand for and had to print up more. In fact > > (reaching through memory here) im almost positive ive seen several posts > > from AEG staffers saying that sales were in fact UP with gold, and again > > through diamond. That tends to tell me that the majority of their customers > > are pleased with the work. The commotion over eratta and the new > > personalities is frankly a bit of overreaction. A lot of people see that > > the personalities they are getting are vastly different from what they are > > used to and freak, rather than think of what types of decks the > > personalities WILL work in. Lion arent getting a bunch of jank in this set, > > they ARE getting another 4/4 for 7 with a starting family HR, and an ability > > which if not useful constantly, can sway a game in certain situations. > > Crane get another unique that rivals toshimoko, and a nonunique tactician > > with an innate duel AND a personality who makes honor running out of their > > more pro active stronghold a bit more feasable. Not shabby either. > > Addressing the issues put forth, they issue more eratta lately because more > > people are getting into the game, its becoming a lot more competitive what > > with the bounties being put forth for storylines and by fixing the cards > > they see the need to eratta NOW instead of waiting ages for an mrp, they > > reduce the need to tone down the cards a faction using a certain strategy > > gets in future expansions. You only need to go to the jade hand tourney > > page to see that the eratta didnt REALLY hurt lion all that badly in the > > competetive world, despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth, and frankly > > the results posted in this kotei season have been a lot more evenly > > distributed than any kotei season ive been involved with. Admittedly only > > since the beginning of gold. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to 'Dig Yourself Out of Debt' from MSN > > Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0407debt.armx > > > > _______________________________________________ > > L5r-ccg mailing list > > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jason.coble at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 05:58:16 2004 From: jason.coble at gmail.com (Jason Coble) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 10:58:16 +0100 Subject: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: <004301c477aa$f80cf180$0a321d0a@marmotte> References: <7f3611ad040801022349cd25f5@mail.gmail.com> <004301c477aa$f80cf180$0a321d0a@marmotte> Message-ID: <7f3611ad04080102586f3cd984@mail.gmail.com> The point I am making is that the card was designed with the intent to impact Lion and MGC, it has an added benefit of being useful against other deck types. Which makes it an auto include. It is good you acknowledge the effect of the card on Lion add to that everything else they have done to kill the bandwagon. Loyal Lion players have received poor personality support over the last two sets one playable personality in HC and one so far in WoE. Jason On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 11:36:05 +0200, Goju Kaze wrote: > imho, Fury of the Dark Lord is more "doom of MGC" that doom of the Lion. The > fact that Lion bas is affected is linked to it's 3 gold SH, hece a lot of > personalities are in the bunch. All other clans (not faction, so don't tell > me about Shadowlands and rats) SH +3 are out, but SH + 3 is 6 for Lion. > > It's a hard economy shift for Lion, and a little bit hard to take in, but I > expect that Web of Lies (and in small mesure Dawn of the Empire) will > correct part of it (no, I don't suggest a 4 Gold Lion SH) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jason Coble" > To: > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:23 AM > Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 > > > I think you need to look at that nonunique Tactiction he costs 11 > > gold. That is a fortune in Lion money. I do not think the person is > > complaining about personalities as much as 'Doom of the Lion' (TM) er > > I mean Fury of the Dark Lord. That card as designed targets lion box > > plus one selection. AEG has acted to fix Lions domination at the > > beginning of DE thru the begining of HC. However the constant attack > > on the play style/errata/MRP and designing of cards that directly > > attack Lions strongdeck types can and will turn some poeple off of the > > game since Lion has not shown well since the release of HC. Keep in > > mind there are clan loyal LION players out there who have recieved > > unplayable or even worse Shadowlands/bloodspeeker cards (as the result > > of last years Kotei season) the last two sets. I understand that said > > player is whinning but please take a moment and listen to points being > > made. AEG had brought Lion low no more bandwagon here. > > > > Jason > > On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 01:57:35 -0700, Ryan Freire > wrote: > > > >Message: 7 > > > >Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 17:54:18 -0400 (EDT) > > > >From: damourc > > > >Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] Open letter to the designers of L5R and the > > > >To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com > > > >Message-ID: > > > > > > > > >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > > > > >Sir, > > > > I vehemently disagree. We know that the folks at AEG do indeed > read > > > >this list so this is the ideal place to provide them feedback. Now, > said > > > >feedback ought to be provided in a responsible, courteous manner I > agree. > > > >Indeed, the gentleman that started this thread did so. We, as > customers, > > > >owe AEG feedback. That way they can gauge what is going on with > > > >their customer base. > > > > If their sales have been falling off and they have received > > > >no complaints, how do they respond? However, if they have been getting > > > >comments saying "I am unhappy for thus and such a reason." then they > can > > > >use that as a basis for making changes and hopefully increasing > > > >participation and sales. > > > > > > I gotta say, nowhere has there been any indication of their sales > falling > > > off put forth to the public, and ive seen posts like this steadily > > > throughout the gold arc as well. In addition to there have been several > sets > > > they UNDERESTIMATED the demand for and had to print up more. In fact > > > (reaching through memory here) im almost positive ive seen several > posts > > > from AEG staffers saying that sales were in fact UP with gold, and again > > > through diamond. That tends to tell me that the majority of their > customers > > > are pleased with the work. The commotion over eratta and the new > > > personalities is frankly a bit of overreaction. A lot of people see > that > > > the personalities they are getting are vastly different from what they > are > > > used to and freak, rather than think of what types of decks the > > > personalities WILL work in. Lion arent getting a bunch of jank in this > set, > > > they ARE getting another 4/4 for 7 with a starting family HR, and an > ability > > > which if not useful constantly, can sway a game in certain situations. > > > Crane get another unique that rivals toshimoko, and a nonunique > tactician > > > with an innate duel AND a personality who makes honor running out of > their > > > more pro active stronghold a bit more feasable. Not shabby either. > > > Addressing the issues put forth, they issue more eratta lately because > more > > > people are getting into the game, its becoming a lot more competitive > what > > > with the bounties being put forth for storylines and by fixing the cards > > > they see the need to eratta NOW instead of waiting ages for an mrp, they > > > reduce the need to tone down the cards a faction using a certain > strategy > > > gets in future expansions. You only need to go to the jade hand > tourney > > > page to see that the eratta didnt REALLY hurt lion all that badly in the > > > competetive world, despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth, and > frankly > > > the results posted in this kotei season have been a lot more evenly > > > distributed than any kotei season ive been involved with. Admittedly > only > > > since the beginning of gold. > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to 'Dig Yourself Out of Debt' from MSN > > > Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0407debt.armx > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > L5r-ccg mailing list > > > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > > > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > L5r-ccg mailing list > > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From raven9864 at comcast.net Sun Aug 1 10:40:12 2004 From: raven9864 at comcast.net (Shosuro Atari) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 09:40:12 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Open Letter to the designers of L5R Message-ID: <002101c477d5$7442f0e0$b6653444@bobi51u8tdvbt7> I get this list in digest, so I have a few replies to this thread in one e-mail. I'll try to be brief in each response. > >Overreacting to *their* view, certainly not - it's their own view, > after all. But I think one cannot know, right now, what the > environment will really be like a month after Wrath is released - > that's almost 2 months away. Announcing that you're quitting, now, > because of what's in Wrath, is, IMHO, a little childish< The original post was well thought out and quite mature for the usual tone of this list. He expressed his concerns with logic and emotional restraint. This person was lumped into a sterotype that was undeserved (Chicken Little *is* out there) just for voicing his opinion. The term "childish" applies to a lot of people who post on this list, but does not apply to the original poster. > > Not trying to cast a stone in anyone's particular direction, but when > is a > > good time to announce your quitting? > > In this list? Probably never. Like 99,99% of people reading this doesn't > know who you are and gives a fig. You tell privately your playgroup and > that's it. Not at all. AEG reads this list, and one of the purposes for this list (and their reasons for reading it) is to glean feedback from it's customer base. If no one else but an AEG rep cared to read Ken's post or thought anything of it, then exactly the correct number of people did. If no one has ever noticed, more than just Jeff from AEG reads this list. Several people from diverse departments do, and it shows at least to me that as a company, they care about what is being said by each of us. > Exactly. Generally such things are intended to elicit some sort of response > in the average reader. The poster is saying... See how bad things are? I'm > quitting! > > As was pointed out by someone on one of the other places this was posted to, > they rarely elicit the emotional response that their authors intend in the > majority of readers. Blood in the water... We post on this list (well, not all of us) because we care about this game. One of the reasons we are provided with this list by AEG as well as fans putting up endless web sites and other mailing lists and irc channels is because we want to reach out to others that care as well, and care in the way that we as individuals do. > Well, maybe he is trying to solicit offers for his collection?? Some people > are getting excited about buying peoples collections for cheap. Although he > is a Lion player, and with Lion getting the recent errata on their cards and > stronghold, with a favored Returned showing up, and Fury of the dark lord, Which Lion Stronghold(s) have been errata'ed, and what is the new text please? > Sir, > I vehemently disagree. We know that the folks at AEG do indeed read > this list so this is the ideal place to provide them feedback. Now, said > feedback ought to be provided in a responsible, courteous manner I agree. > Indeed, the gentleman that started this thread did so. We, as customers, > owe AEG feedback. That way they can gauge what is going on with > their customer base. I completely agree. Brief replies are over, and my own views on design vs. continued play begin at length. Delete if neccessary. I have been playing since Pearl and have lived thru the Jade/Open, Gold, and into the Diamond arc, most of that as Scorpion. I quit the game for roughly six months, and not a small part of it was due to issues of balance and design that I saw in Diamond. I felt that Diamond was horribly unbalanced and that the amount of errata generated just from the base set on cards that had huge swings in the power of the environment was too much. Your base set lays the foundation of balance for the entire arc, and thus more care should be put into what goes into it than any expansion. Otherwise, you spend your resources in your expansions trying to fix problems or make up to players for short-sightedness instead of on new and exciting features that everyone can enjoy, an example of which is the Scorpion. When a Herald has what basically amounts to an apology to the players of a faction (Scorpion) and one of it's designers also offers such on the Scorpion list then there is cause for concern. The proliferation of Ratling Personalities in Hidden City is also an example. I think what Ken sees is what I saw some months ago, and it's not so much the cards themselves, but the vision and thought process that design is employing in the creation of the game. The cards themselves are not really the issue, they are just the by-product of the real problem--the design/playtest process. I didn't take it that Ken was quitting because Lion are getting de-powered. I think others put that out as a reason becuase they didn't understand his reasons. I didn't quit because Scorpion got dropped near the bottom of the tiers. I quit because Toku became unique, along with the host of other issues of errata. Toku. Unique. I quit because I saw things that, IMO, I did not like concerning the Player Design Team. I think that with any game once you let players design the game, regardless of how professional, knowledgable, and unbiased they *try* to be, in the end they design games like players, not designers. I think this is part of the problem with Diamond as I understand it, and I may not completely. Players are a great source for a company to collect data on the style of the game, but the substance has to come from a source farther removed. I returend to the game because many of my friends convinced me that the current environment is more balanced than ever before, and that every faction has at least two viable archetypes. That the Scorpion had swung 180 degrees around and now were attracting bandwaggoners. I was skeptical, as such a dramatic turnaround also says something I do not like about the game. I am playing again, but just for fun. I am running the tourneys at our local store, but I am not playing competively. In short, and to sum up: I think Ken has lost faith not in his clan's ability to win but in Design itself to produce a game with systems on par with what he is used to receiving in the past. I have returned because of assurances from friends and seeing for myself that changes for the better are being made. I hope Ken does as well. Design isn't going to do everything perfect, they never will and that in and of itself is not a reason to quit. I just felt that Diamond initially crossed the line of acceptable loss, and for each of us that line is different. Shosuro Atari Scorpion Clan Storyteller * Courtier * Experienced _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Kirbdog53 at aol.com Sun Aug 1 11:01:33 2004 From: Kirbdog53 at aol.com (Kirbdog53 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 11:01:33 EDT Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Open Letter to the designers of L5R Message-ID: <1a0.27a26fb3.2e3e5fcd@aol.com> In a message dated 8/1/2004 7:36:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, raven9864 at comcast.net writes: I quit because Toku became unique, along with the host of other issues of errata. Toku. Unique. Minor quibble. Technically not true. Toku unexp has not changed. It is just his "Soul of" who was the target of errata. Moto Gahrie _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From GojuKaze at wanadoo.fr Sun Aug 1 11:48:32 2004 From: GojuKaze at wanadoo.fr (Goju Kaze) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 17:48:32 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 References: <7f3611ad040801022349cd25f5@mail.gmail.com><004301c477aa$f80cf180$0a321d0a@marmotte> <7f3611ad04080102586f3cd984@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002001c477de$ffc2d460$0a321d0a@marmotte> Well, I disagree on the "auto include" factor of this card. Because 1 in a deck, it's a magic bullet, so you better have lots of luck, and 3 is thinning the deck with so mch meta that you deserve to loose. 2 is maybe interesting, but imho, it's too much. And it's just meta aainst some archetypes, not all. I think the intent target were more the cheap courtier control (2 (taneji), 4 (nagori) and 6 (maru)) and recursive exploding MGC. Lion was not the target, it's a side effect. 15 gold is not cheap in term of development, and if you play all above 7, it's 2 to 3 peeps. I think the existence of the card will have more impact on the environment than the card itself in top level games. People will plan because this card exist, but the game the card will effectivly win will not be, imho again, that many. Goju Kaze ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Coble" To: Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 > The point I am making is that the card was designed with the intent to > impact Lion and MGC, it has an added benefit of being useful against > other deck types. Which makes it an auto include. It is good you > acknowledge the effect of the card on Lion add to that everything else > they have done to kill the bandwagon. Loyal Lion players have received > poor personality support over the last two sets one playable > personality in HC and one so far in WoE. > Jason > > On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 11:36:05 +0200, Goju Kaze wrote: > > imho, Fury of the Dark Lord is more "doom of MGC" that doom of the Lion. The > > fact that Lion bas is affected is linked to it's 3 gold SH, hece a lot of > > personalities are in the bunch. All other clans (not faction, so don't tell > > me about Shadowlands and rats) SH +3 are out, but SH + 3 is 6 for Lion. > > > > It's a hard economy shift for Lion, and a little bit hard to take in, but I > > expect that Web of Lies (and in small mesure Dawn of the Empire) will > > correct part of it (no, I don't suggest a 4 Gold Lion SH) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jason Coble" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:23 AM > > Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 > > > > > I think you need to look at that nonunique Tactiction he costs 11 > > > gold. That is a fortune in Lion money. I do not think the person is > > > complaining about personalities as much as 'Doom of the Lion' (TM) er > > > I mean Fury of the Dark Lord. That card as designed targets lion box > > > plus one selection. AEG has acted to fix Lions domination at the > > > beginning of DE thru the begining of HC. However the constant attack > > > on the play style/errata/MRP and designing of cards that directly > > > attack Lions strongdeck types can and will turn some poeple off of the > > > game since Lion has not shown well since the release of HC. Keep in > > > mind there are clan loyal LION players out there who have recieved > > > unplayable or even worse Shadowlands/bloodspeeker cards (as the result > > > of last years Kotei season) the last two sets. I understand that said > > > player is whinning but please take a moment and listen to points being > > > made. AEG had brought Lion low no more bandwagon here. > > > > > > Jason > > > On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 01:57:35 -0700, Ryan Freire > > wrote: > > > > >Message: 7 > > > > >Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 17:54:18 -0400 (EDT) > > > > >From: damourc > > > > >Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] Open letter to the designers of L5R and the > > > > >To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com > > > > >Message-ID: > > > > > > > > > > > >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > > > > > > >Sir, > > > > > I vehemently disagree. We know that the folks at AEG do indeed > > read > > > > >this list so this is the ideal place to provide them feedback. Now, > > said > > > > >feedback ought to be provided in a responsible, courteous manner I > > agree. > > > > >Indeed, the gentleman that started this thread did so. We, as > > customers, > > > > >owe AEG feedback. That way they can gauge what is going on with > > > > >their customer base. > > > > > If their sales have been falling off and they have received > > > > >no complaints, how do they respond? However, if they have been getting > > > > >comments saying "I am unhappy for thus and such a reason." then they > > can > > > > >use that as a basis for making changes and hopefully increasing > > > > >participation and sales. > > > > > > > > I gotta say, nowhere has there been any indication of their sales > > falling > > > > off put forth to the public, and ive seen posts like this steadily > > > > throughout the gold arc as well. In addition to there have been several > > sets > > > > they UNDERESTIMATED the demand for and had to print up more. In fact > > > > (reaching through memory here) im almost positive ive seen several > > posts > > > > from AEG staffers saying that sales were in fact UP with gold, and again > > > > through diamond. That tends to tell me that the majority of their > > customers > > > > are pleased with the work. The commotion over eratta and the new > > > > personalities is frankly a bit of overreaction. A lot of people see > > that > > > > the personalities they are getting are vastly different from what they > > are > > > > used to and freak, rather than think of what types of decks the > > > > personalities WILL work in. Lion arent getting a bunch of jank in this > > set, > > > > they ARE getting another 4/4 for 7 with a starting family HR, and an > > ability > > > > which if not useful constantly, can sway a game in certain situations. > > > > Crane get another unique that rivals toshimoko, and a nonunique > > tactician > > > > with an innate duel AND a personality who makes honor running out of > > their > > > > more pro active stronghold a bit more feasable. Not shabby either. > > > > Addressing the issues put forth, they issue more eratta lately because > > more > > > > people are getting into the game, its becoming a lot more competitive > > what > > > > with the bounties being put forth for storylines and by fixing the cards > > > > they see the need to eratta NOW instead of waiting ages for an mrp, they > > > > reduce the need to tone down the cards a faction using a certain > > strategy > > > > gets in future expansions. You only need to go to the jade hand > > tourney > > > > page to see that the eratta didnt REALLY hurt lion all that badly in the > > > > competetive world, despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth, and > > frankly > > > > the results posted in this kotei season have been a lot more evenly > > > > distributed than any kotei season ive been involved with. Admittedly > > only > > > > since the beginning of gold. > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to 'Dig Yourself Out of Debt' from MSN > > > > Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0407debt.armx > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > L5r-ccg mailing list > > > > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > > > > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > L5r-ccg mailing list > > > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > > > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > L5r-ccg mailing list > > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jason.coble at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 13:23:17 2004 From: jason.coble at gmail.com (Jason Coble) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:23:17 +0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: <002001c477de$ffc2d460$0a321d0a@marmotte> References: <7f3611ad040801022349cd25f5@mail.gmail.com><004301c477aa$f80cf180$0a321d0a@marmotte> <7f3611ad04080102586f3cd984@mail.gmail.com> <002001c477de$ffc2d460$0a321d0a@marmotte> Message-ID: <7f3611ad040801102352f24b2f@mail.gmail.com> How can you say that Lion was not the target, AEG is careful in how it words card if AEG did not intend to hit Lion they would have used the imperial census template not the current wording, then there would have been no side effect. Lion was intended to be effected by this. Lion was strong at the time this set was being designed (Tibbles early Kotei success along with a couple other Lions) They felt that the errata did not get the job done and moved to finish the job. I personally have no problem with I think it good to fix the problems Lion was creating so that I can look forward to New Personalities as sets go on, not the crap Lion has seen post RoB. I respectfully disagree on not including FotDL. This card meets the standard of being useful agianst the field the only clan that is in small way is Crab and to a lesser extent Unicorn. It's power level alone means it is worth playing and with the card draw and search options it will be fairly easy to get it out and play it. It power to change the game in the bowing of 15 gold is worth playing two. It will never be a wasted card setting your hand unless you lack the gold. Jason On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 17:48:32 +0200, Goju Kaze wrote: > Well, I disagree on the "auto include" factor of this card. Because 1 in a > deck, it's a magic bullet, so you better have lots of luck, and 3 is > thinning the deck with so mch meta that you deserve to loose. 2 is maybe > interesting, but imho, it's too much. And it's just meta aainst some > archetypes, not all. > > I think the intent target were more the cheap courtier control (2 (taneji), > 4 (nagori) and 6 (maru)) and recursive exploding MGC. Lion was not the > target, it's a side effect. > > 15 gold is not cheap in term of development, and if you play all above 7, > it's 2 to 3 peeps. > > I think the existence of the card will have more impact on the environment > than the card itself in top level games. People will plan because this card > exist, but the game the card will effectivly win will not be, imho again, > that many. > > Goju Kaze > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jason Coble" > To: > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:58 AM > Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 > > > The point I am making is that the card was designed with the intent to > > impact Lion and MGC, it has an added benefit of being useful against > > other deck types. Which makes it an auto include. It is good you > > acknowledge the effect of the card on Lion add to that everything else > > they have done to kill the bandwagon. Loyal Lion players have received > > poor personality support over the last two sets one playable > > personality in HC and one so far in WoE. > > Jason > > > > On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 11:36:05 +0200, Goju Kaze wrote: > > > imho, Fury of the Dark Lord is more "doom of MGC" that doom of the Lion. > The > > > fact that Lion bas is affected is linked to it's 3 gold SH, hece a lot > of > > > personalities are in the bunch. All other clans (not faction, so don't > tell > > > me about Shadowlands and rats) SH +3 are out, but SH + 3 is 6 for Lion. > > > > > > It's a hard economy shift for Lion, and a little bit hard to take in, > but I > > > expect that Web of Lies (and in small mesure Dawn of the Empire) will > > > correct part of it (no, I don't suggest a 4 Gold Lion SH) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Jason Coble" > > > To: > > > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:23 AM > > > Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 > > > > > > > I think you need to look at that nonunique Tactiction he costs 11 > > > > gold. That is a fortune in Lion money. I do not think the person is > > > > complaining about personalities as much as 'Doom of the Lion' (TM) er > > > > I mean Fury of the Dark Lord. That card as designed targets lion box > > > > plus one selection. AEG has acted to fix Lions domination at the > > > > beginning of DE thru the begining of HC. However the constant attack > > > > on the play style/errata/MRP and designing of cards that directly > > > > attack Lions strongdeck types can and will turn some poeple off of the > > > > game since Lion has not shown well since the release of HC. Keep in > > > > mind there are clan loyal LION players out there who have recieved > > > > unplayable or even worse Shadowlands/bloodspeeker cards (as the result > > > > of last years Kotei season) the last two sets. I understand that said > > > > player is whinning but please take a moment and listen to points being > > > > made. AEG had brought Lion low no more bandwagon here. > > > > > > > > Jason > > > > On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 01:57:35 -0700, Ryan Freire > > > > wrote: > > > > > >Message: 7 > > > > > >Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 17:54:18 -0400 (EDT) > > > > > >From: damourc > > > > > >Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] Open letter to the designers of L5R and the > > > > > >To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com > > > > > >Message-ID: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > > > > > > > > >Sir, > > > > > > I vehemently disagree. We know that the folks at AEG do > indeed > > > read > > > > > >this list so this is the ideal place to provide them feedback. > Now, > > > said > > > > > >feedback ought to be provided in a responsible, courteous manner I > > > agree. > > > > > >Indeed, the gentleman that started this thread did so. We, as > > > customers, > > > > > >owe AEG feedback. That way they can gauge what is going on with > > > > > >their customer base. > > > > > > If their sales have been falling off and they have received > > > > > >no complaints, how do they respond? However, if they have been > getting > > > > > >comments saying "I am unhappy for thus and such a reason." then > they > > > can > > > > > >use that as a basis for making changes and hopefully increasing > > > > > >participation and sales. > > > > > > > > > > I gotta say, nowhere has there been any indication of their sales > > > falling > > > > > off put forth to the public, and ive seen posts like this steadily > > > > > throughout the gold arc as well. In addition to there have been > several > > > sets > > > > > they UNDERESTIMATED the demand for and had to print up more. In > fact > > > > > (reaching through memory here) im almost positive ive seen several > > > posts > > > > > from AEG staffers saying that sales were in fact UP with gold, and > again > > > > > through diamond. That tends to tell me that the majority of their > > > customers > > > > > are pleased with the work. The commotion over eratta and the new > > > > > personalities is frankly a bit of overreaction. A lot of people see > > > that > > > > > the personalities they are getting are vastly different from what > they > > > are > > > > > used to and freak, rather than think of what types of decks the > > > > > personalities WILL work in. Lion arent getting a bunch of jank in > this > > > set, > > > > > they ARE getting another 4/4 for 7 with a starting family HR, and an > > > ability > > > > > which if not useful constantly, can sway a game in certain > situations. > > > > > Crane get another unique that rivals toshimoko, and a nonunique > > > tactician > > > > > with an innate duel AND a personality who makes honor running out of > > > > their > > > > > more pro active stronghold a bit more feasable. Not shabby either. > > > > > Addressing the issues put forth, they issue more eratta lately > because > > > more > > > > > people are getting into the game, its becoming a lot more > competitive > > > what > > > > > with the bounties being put forth for storylines and by fixing the > cards > > > > > they see the need to eratta NOW instead of waiting ages for an mrp, > they > > > > > reduce the need to tone down the cards a faction using a certain > > > strategy > > > > > gets in future expansions. You only need to go to the jade hand > > > tourney > > > > > page to see that the eratta didnt REALLY hurt lion all that badly in > the > > > > > competetive world, despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth, and > > > frankly > > > > > the results posted in this kotei season have been a lot more evenly > > > > > distributed than any kotei season ive been involved with. > Admittedly > > > only > > > > > since the beginning of gold. > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to 'Dig Yourself Out of Debt' from > MSN > > > > > Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0407debt.armx > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > L5r-ccg mailing list > > > > > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > > > > > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > L5r-ccg mailing list > > > > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > > > > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > L5r-ccg mailing list > > > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > > > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > L5r-ccg mailing list > > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From arthur at halavais.net Sun Aug 1 13:27:38 2004 From: arthur at halavais.net (Arthur Halavais) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 17:27:38 +0000 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 2 Message-ID: <20040801172738.7837.qmail@station171.com> > Not trying to cast a stone in anyone's particular direction, but when > is a good time to announce your quitting? > Anytime! Whenever! Just as long as it is written and sent by snail mail to AEG. Doing this proves that you are upset enough to be willing to spend money (even if it is only 33 cents), and are willing to take time to get to a mail box and send it. However, if you quit here on the list, no one really cares, and the most common responce is that you're whining and/or looking for attention. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From ajb818s at hotmail.com Sun Aug 1 13:59:12 2004 From: ajb818s at hotmail.com (Andrew Bloomgren) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 12:59:12 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 2 Message-ID: >I think that with any game once you let players design the game, >regardless of how professional, knowledgable, and unbiased they *try* to >be, >in the end they design games like players, not designers. exactly. the players are the enemy, especially the top tier players. they can't think of anyone but themselves and design the game around that. the current card designers have brought us: 1. horrible bias 2. bad mechanics 3. countless erratum it's time to fire them and start over, not coddle them and hope they'll change. _________________________________________________________________ Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From ajb818s at hotmail.com Sun Aug 1 14:05:24 2004 From: ajb818s at hotmail.com (Andrew Bloomgren) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 13:05:24 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Fury of the Dark Lord Message-ID: >15 gold is not cheap in term of development, and if you play all above 7, >it's 2 to 3 peeps. 15 gold is a non-cost on this card, especially if it will kill none of your guys. if you will kill 2 of your opponents personalities, instead of bring out 2 of your own, you come out ahead. denial of choice is still the strongest thing in l5r and has been since Imperial. if you kill more than 2, then you're just getting away with murder. 15 gold is trivial since any way you could have spent that 15 gold is going to apply more or less the same shift in power, except that it guts your opponent this way. 15 gold and destroy your rightmost province, that would have been an appropriate cost. _________________________________________________________________ Discover the best of the best at MSN Luxury Living. http://lexus.msn.com/ _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From duchon.philippe at free.fr Sun Aug 1 14:09:40 2004 From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 20:09:40 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040801200940.38b66e66.duchon.philippe@free.fr> > the current card designers have brought us: > > 1. horrible bias > 2. bad mechanics > 3. countless erratum Not sure what you mean by this, but you're the first person I've seen use the singular "erratum" where a plural is called for. Most people on this list apparently couldn't recognize "errata" as a plural if their life depended on it. -- Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From tkdyanni at ameritech.net Sun Aug 1 16:10:41 2004 From: tkdyanni at ameritech.net (jon) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 13:10:41 -0700 Subject: [L5R-CCG] dan tibbles - the lost kabutos Message-ID: <003101c47803$9f8efe00$f65dfea9@v2z1v1> Has any of the seatle kotei player recieved their kabuto promos that were supposed to be mailed out after the seatle kotei? Dan stated at the IN kotei that they did turn up and he'd still be sending them out and I was curious if anyone had recieved theirs yet. Jon _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From pgrenier at charter.net Sun Aug 1 14:28:57 2004 From: pgrenier at charter.net (Paul Grenier) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 14:28:57 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: <002001c477de$ffc2d460$0a321d0a@marmotte> Message-ID: "Well, I disagree on the "auto include" factor of this card. Because 1 in a deck, it's a magic bullet, so you better have lots of luck, and 3 is thinning the deck with so mch meta that you deserve to loose. 2 is maybe interesting, but imho, it's too much. And it's just meta aainst some archetypes, not all." This is a poor argument in the current environment. SL chi-death runs 3xWTW to get any meta of your choice: auto-include. Most top tourney decks have at least one Sisters, many have 2 because they know they'll use it: auto-include. Water monk and enlightenment both run enough card draw and kiho "get me whatever I want" cards to make it an auto-include. Any serious honor-runner will have to put one in because the alternative is getting Kaukatsu-bombed out of the tourney with no way to prevent it: auto-include to match the auto-include unique scorpion mad bomber. Rats, while hardly happy about the gold cost, have nothing to lose; if they can't pay for it, give it to the conjurer, otherwise I'm cycling through fate so fast I'm bound to hit it 2 out of 3 games: auto-include. I see enough of the top decks adding this card that for you to make a blanket statement like that must just be you talking the card down so you can trade for all the ones in your local play group. Paul -----Original Message----- From: L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com [mailto:L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com]On Behalf Of Goju Kaze Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:49 AM To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From nagaherald at hotmail.com Sun Aug 1 15:01:38 2004 From: nagaherald at hotmail.com (Joe Reil) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 15:01:38 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Open Letter to the designers of L5R Message-ID: >players of a faction (Scorpion) and one of it's designers also offers such >on the Scorpion list then there is cause for concern. The proliferation of >Ratling Personalities in Hidden City is also an example. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the proliferation of Ratlings in Hidden City was the end result of a *production* error and not a *design* error. i.e., the 'extra' Ratlings in HC were there because they were accidentally left out of an earlier set where they were intended to be. They were not put there as an intentional move to give Ratling a bigger boost in that set than others got. ? Joe Reil Qashar, the Naga Herald aka Shiba Dokan, Phoenix Jade Hand Samurai ? Yojimbo to Shiba Samoshii Tattooed ? Naga Tattoo _________________________________________________________________ Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to ?Dig Yourself Out of Debt? from MSN Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0407debt.armx _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From dm4hire at hotmail.com Sun Aug 1 15:02:22 2004 From: dm4hire at hotmail.com (Joseph Provenzano) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 14:02:22 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Pick Your Battles Message-ID: Question: If the battle is a tie. Does the other side still get destroyed as a result of the tie if I play Pick Your Battles? Reaction: Play before your army is destroyed for losing or tying in a battle. Only one unit of your choice in your army is destroyed. The rest return to their controllers' homes, bowed. Your opponent in the battle still gains honor as if your entire army had been destroyed. The sentence before "The rest return to their controller's homes, bowed." is referring to your army. Should "The rest return to their controllers' homes, bowed." actually be "Both the opposing army and your remaining units return home bowed." or is it referring to "The remainder of your army (including allies) returns home bowed." DM4Hire _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee? Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From GojuKaze at wanadoo.fr Sun Aug 1 15:13:25 2004 From: GojuKaze at wanadoo.fr (Goju Kaze) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:13:25 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 References: Message-ID: <001601c477fb$9f0d92a0$0a321d0a@marmotte> Right... OK, let's see... Who attach the walking? Usually a small peep, early game, so it's killed by it. Refuge? It's a peep, a 5 chi peep, so you remove one of your asset from the game to get it + 15 gold. Monks? Wow, illumination is already ull deck, don't habve much room, and anyway use cheap peeps. Military trade off? OK, if you have no one costing less than 7 out and your opponent have 2, you already have large troubles no? So no, I beg to disagree, this card will not be an "auto include" and certainly not 2 copies. Feel free to do so... As anyway most decks will prepare for it, you'll waste 2 slot in your fate. So the card, anyway imho, will affect deck construction BECAUSE it exist, no because it's actualy played. And yes, I also mantain my statement that rcursive MGC (remove from the game clause) and cheap courtier control are the proeminent target. I don't think that Lion was the primary target. Goju Kaze ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Grenier" To: Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 8:28 PM Subject: RE: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 > "Well, I disagree on the "auto include" factor of this card. Because 1 in a > deck, it's a magic bullet, so you better have lots of luck, and 3 is > thinning the deck with so mch meta that you deserve to loose. 2 is maybe > interesting, but imho, it's too much. And it's just meta aainst some > archetypes, not all." > > This is a poor argument in the current environment. SL chi-death runs 3xWTW > to get any meta of your choice: auto-include. Most top tourney decks have > at least one Sisters, many have 2 because they know they'll use it: > auto-include. Water monk and enlightenment both run enough card draw and > kiho "get me whatever I want" cards to make it an auto-include. Any serious > honor-runner will have to put one in because the alternative is getting > Kaukatsu-bombed out of the tourney with no way to prevent it: auto-include > to match the auto-include unique scorpion mad bomber. Rats, while hardly > happy about the gold cost, have nothing to lose; if they can't pay for it, > give it to the conjurer, otherwise I'm cycling through fate so fast I'm > bound to hit it 2 out of 3 games: auto-include. > > I see enough of the top decks adding this card that for you to make a > blanket statement like that must just be you talking the card down so you > can trade for all the ones in your local play group. > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com [mailto:L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com]On > Behalf Of Goju Kaze > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:49 AM > To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com > Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 > > > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From tkdyanni at ameritech.net Sun Aug 1 17:18:30 2004 From: tkdyanni at ameritech.net (jon) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 14:18:30 -0700 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Open letter to the designers of L5R and the management ofAEG. References: <001001c476b3$ed5a5400$b680fea9@your4di1s53ime> Message-ID: <003b01c4780d$1878e2a0$f65dfea9@v2z1v1> > To the designers of L5R and the management of AEG, > > Congratulations, you have made me give up this game. The Gold arc was very > little fun but I bought into the propoganda that you had learned from your > mistakes and Diamond was going to be fun. Diamond is fun for a large number of players, I really did not enjoy the gold arc very much, since as a TA player I had just had my faction cut out from underneath me. But I've adjusted and learned to play otehr clans and I think because of it the enviroment is more appealing. While many of the core cards are reprints of classic old l5r strategies Diamond is definately not a simple repeat of older arcs. Players that are unable to adapt or refuse to adapt to this are going to feel restricted, but for those of us who've moved on and adjusted Diamond is certainly a lot of fun. I'd suggest expanding your pool of clans rather than play die hard lion so much. Now I watch expansion after > expansion come out packed to the breaking point with meta for bad design > choices and not even the least bit of encouragement for the factions being > powered down. Is it really possible that the thought of giving loyal players > of every faction a reason to buy each expansion has not occured to you? Actually there's lots of reasons every set for players to buy cards, not every set has to be brimming with personalities for X clan to be appealing. Events, holdings, actions, items and followers are universal cards that can be worked into deck of any faction. Spells and kiho's are slightly more restictive but in the *entire* history of l5r I've never one seen a set that caters only to one faction. There are always universal cards to appeal to players in each set, but it does not mean that there will be auto-include cards in each set which is what I think you're overlooking. > I read claims that a 3 expansion per year schedule is so tight that the > designers and playtesters cannot see what effect the previous expansion has > had on the environment before sending an expansion to the printers. > Considering the disaster that is the Diamond arc I would think the obvious > answer is to either find a way to accomplish this in the time available or > to drop down to 2 expansions per year. Less than 3 sets a year would be horrible, I can hardly stand playing the same pool of cards for anything more than 4-5 months because less imaginative players become too entrenched in using the same deck week after week after week, and without new influxes of cards they never have any cause to change their decks or factions. Slowing teh release of sets would just further encourage players to become more set in their ways which is damaging to the tourney schene. > I watch as strange and poorly though out rulings throw the most basic tenets > of the game into question. Rules are changed to make a card work as intended > rather than wording the card correctly in the first place. This is not the > way to broaden the player base. How can I teach someone the game with the > amount of errata and poorly worded cards requiring a trip through the > mailing list archive to find the correct way for the card to work? The vast majority of cards are self explaining and are written correctly. Yes there could be some tightrer control exercise used when templating but at the same time re-templating cards and major changes to core rules in diamond causes numerous changes to standing rulings or useage of cards that weren't written under the current template. The only place that 98% of significant rules questions/conflicts will occur is in tourney settings. In casual play usually the combo's aren't encountered and those that are can usually be answered by reading the rulesbook which should be on hand. I've done dozens of demos for l5r, including ones at gencon in the AEG booth, and it's certainly very possible to teach players to understand the the game and bring them up to a very competitive level without needing the archive or mailing list. For the upper most teir of play yes the archive and list are pretty much essential but the average player is not dwelling in the upper most teir of play, hence "average player". > I see a game adrift. Is the tournament environment the primary consideration > when designing cards or is it whether the card will be fun? If the > tournament system is important to you why is Organized Play allowed to > continue making TO's lives miserable? Has no one considered that paying a > professional programmer to produce a working computer system is worth more > in good will than it could possibly cost in dollars? I've had numeroues problems with OP but it seems they are taking steps to improve their reporting system. If you're a skilled computer programmer why don't you take the effort and time to create a better system? I'd love to do that but I don't have the skills so unfortunately I'm forced to work with what's there. Everyone is fast to criticize and tell you exactly how a problem needs to be solved, yet they won't/or can't acheive a better solution themself or it'd be done. I'm not particuarly fond of the way OP is set up, but that does nothing to impact my enjoyment level of playing l5r as a player. > I listen to your statements that you want to make the game slower and more > interactive but then I watch you print large numbers of boxable > personalities and cards like wedge and Shinsei's Shrine which are certain to > speed up the game rather than slow it down. Now I see cards printed to > counter boxable personalities but design can't even get that part right. > Rather than using a Stronghold gold production plus 2 scheme like Imperial > Census you use a flat gold cost which penalizes some factions and rewards > others. The slower game was the motto of gold edition, not diamond. Diamond's focus is on *interaction*, the cad pool in most cases is meant to give a player more options both in battle and in the honor front. A fast game is not a bad thing so long as it's interactive. Players hate games where they can do nothing to interact and it's only magnified when the game is ponderously slow, why waste all the time if you can't even play? Some of the most intense games are hard fought and often decided very quickly where a single lynchpin choice defines the outcome of the battle or game, but the key here is that there's a choice. Tons of games in diamond reach a very high level of intensity where winning depends on choice rather than just slapping out cards beofore your opponent. I didn't experience this hardly at all during gold and that is a major improvement with diamond. Perhaps the designers worded Fury to work exactly like they wanted? Maybe teh intent is not so much as to punish the use of boxable personalities, but rather to give players teh options to run a larger and slower personalitiy base. There are already a huge range of cards that make playing more expensive personalities problematic, fury goes a long way to offset the disparity, making it possible for a slower big man deck to compete with a swarm deck of boxable in the final rounds of the game. > I've simply had it. I played this game for fun and intellectual stimulation > and right now it gives me neither so I'm taking a break from when WotE, > which I will be buying none of, comes out until at least Web of Lies. I hope > that you see the mess L5R is in and take steps to fix it. Some will ask why > am I posting this? My answer is that I used to enjoy playing L5R and hope to > again one day but the present state of the game is unacceptable to me for > the reasons I have stated. Perhaps you're just burnt out from playing to much, it happens to even the best of us. The best remedy is just to take some time off, or try playing some other clans. I've found that since I've been forced to play alternate factions I can uaully avoid getting burnt out by switching between clans, it forces you to try and adopt new strategies and apply more thought to the overall game, rather than just focusing on a narrow portion that a single faction represents. Also expanding out to other play areas helps, when you play the same small group of players week after week you can shake things up considerably by trying a differant location that plays in a totally differant manner. What players come to think of as "the l5r enviroment" is usually shaped entirely by their local players, you'd be shocked at how much variety in the enviroment there is between local stores, let alone when you move up to a state or nation wide scope. If you are playing in only one location you are defiantely not seeing a very rounded image of the overall enviroment. Also the longer you are out of the fold the more difficult you are going to find to get adjusted to where the game is at and headed. Because you freeze your perception of the game at the point you quit, meanwhile the card pool will continue to evolve and you will be looking at the game through sorely outdated veiws/strategies. I've recently had several local players return from the military overseas who haven't played l5r since before gold, while many of the cards are repirints of very familar cards they are floored with how differant and how evolved the game is. While it's taking some adjusting to, they've all seen is at a vast improvement which has caused me to do a lot of thinking of late and why after much reflection why I think the game is heading in an overall good direction. (There will always be problems that come up in any game.) Once wrath is released and has been played for a few month like all sets it may cause me to readjust my viewpoint, but I'm not going to pass judgement on the entire game based on a few partial spoilers. Jon _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From tkdyanni at ameritech.net Sun Aug 1 17:27:56 2004 From: tkdyanni at ameritech.net (jon) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 14:27:56 -0700 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Open Letter to the designers of L5R References: Message-ID: <004901c4780e$69bebe40$f65dfea9@v2z1v1> Only partially, During diamond design Ratling was slatted to recieve less support than the rest of the clans until Ray said they would start recieving the same support as everyone else from now on. ROB was tto late to push this into effect, (only one card which was supposed to be include was left out due to an art snag). To make up past non support they recieved the additional personalities in HC to get them back to equal footing more or less. When Ray speakth people comply. Diamond Ratling went from being a "fun" undersuppoted clan, to post HC being a fully supported clan. oh well if you have to hate something about the game it may as well be the ratlings :) Jon >players of a faction (Scorpion) and one of it's designers also offers such >on the Scorpion list then there is cause for concern. The proliferation of >Ratling Personalities in Hidden City is also an example. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the proliferation of Ratlings in Hidden City was the end result of a *production* error and not a *design* error. i.e., the 'extra' Ratlings in HC were there because they were accidentally left out of an earlier set where they were intended to be. They were not put there as an intentional move to give Ratling a bigger boost in that set than others got. - Joe Reil Qashar, the Naga Herald aka Shiba Dokan, Phoenix Jade Hand Samurai . Yojimbo to Shiba Samoshii Tattooed . Naga Tattoo _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Whitecat31 at aol.com Sun Aug 1 15:31:52 2004 From: Whitecat31 at aol.com (Whitecat31 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 15:31:52 EDT Subject: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 Message-ID: In a message dated 8/1/2004 12:13:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, GojuKaze at wanadoo.fr writes: > So no, I beg to disagree, this card will not be an "auto include" and > certainly not 2 copies. Feel free to do so... As anyway most decks will > prepare for it, you'll waste 2 slot in your fate. > > Goju Kaze Ok how about this..Promise me you will trade all your obviously crappy Fury of the Dark Lord cards to me when you get them. If you don''t think they are worth that much, I will happily pay 2 dollars for each one of these cards plus actual shipping. PROMISE RIGHT NOW!!!! Like I said before, I don't like the card, I feel it is bad for the play environment, so I will be happily trading for it. David Starr Whitecat31 GAB Vice-Admiral in the Golden Koku Team _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From GojuKaze at wanadoo.fr Sun Aug 1 15:38:02 2004 From: GojuKaze at wanadoo.fr (Goju Kaze) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:38:02 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 References: Message-ID: <001801c477ff$0f521560$0a321d0a@marmotte> Well, considerng I collect, I need 3 foils. All extra will go to the trade market. If you don't care spending the cash fo shipping from France, why not. And BTW, I myself dislike the card too. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 > In a message dated 8/1/2004 12:13:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > GojuKaze at wanadoo.fr writes: > > > > > > So no, I beg to disagree, this card will not be an "auto include" and > > certainly not 2 copies. Feel free to do so... As anyway most decks will > > prepare for it, you'll waste 2 slot in your fate. > > > > > > > Goju Kaze > > Ok how about this..Promise me you will trade all your obviously crappy Fury > of the Dark Lord cards to me when you get them. If you don''t think they are > worth that much, I will happily pay 2 dollars for each one of these cards plus > actual shipping. PROMISE RIGHT NOW!!!! Like I said before, I don't like the > card, I feel it is bad for the play environment, so I will be happily trading > for it. > > David Starr > Whitecat31 GAB Vice-Admiral in the Golden Koku Team > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From diablo_5 at hotmail.com Sun Aug 1 16:46:10 2004 From: diablo_5 at hotmail.com (Andrew Laderoute) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 16:46:10 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Pick Your Battles Message-ID: PYB cancels all unit destruction in all armies, save the one unit you destroy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hida Ryushi 6F/6C 0HR/12G/2PH Crab Clan Samurai*Iron Legion Commander*Kisada's Fist*Tactician*Yu 5*Experienced*Unique Tactical Battle: Ryushi gains a Force bonus equal to his Yu value. Reaction: After any Attack Phase, you may take one Action card that checked Ryushi's Yu value from your Discard pile into your hand. "Of life and honour amongst the ashes of our history." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Take charge with a pop-up guard built on patented Microsoft? SmartScreen Technology. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN? Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From moosi at paradise.net.nz Sun Aug 1 21:18:54 2004 From: moosi at paradise.net.nz (Mark Williams) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 13:18:54 +1200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Errated Lion SH Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20040802131102.01b9c828@pop3.paradise.net.nz> Kyuden Ikoma, text now reads: Reaction: Bow your Stronghold and one of your Lion Clan Personalities in the current battle to cancel another player's Battle action. If it's an Action card, its player may return it to his hand after the battle. The player may immediately take another action." [MRP, Diamond Edition, 27 October 2003; erratum, JA, 1 March 2004] As for the Lion sucking, I'm not sure what people are on. You've got the choice of running 6 gold honour/swarm lions (who come of 2x 2/2 holdings, plus Benten) or running 7 gold for 4 force (2 non-uniques, plus one in wrath), plus Ieshige. The only peeps in my Lion deck who would get hit by Wrath are Aoiko. Want to spend 15 gold to destroy 3 peeps who cost me 15 gold and gained me 9 honour, or cost me 9 gold? At 01:01 PM 8/2/2004 +0000, you wrote: >Which Lion Stronghold(s) have been errata'ed, and what is the new text >please? _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Luftmorder at aol.com Sun Aug 1 21:34:09 2004 From: Luftmorder at aol.com (Luftmorder at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:34:09 EDT Subject: [L5R-CCG] Errated Lion SH Message-ID: <9d.4b8ed6df.2e3ef411@aol.com> In a message dated 8/1/04 6:20:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, moosi at paradise.net.nz writes: > The only peeps in my Lion deck who would get hit by Wrath are Aoiko. Want > to spend 15 gold to destroy 3 peeps who cost me 15 gold and gained me 9 > honour, or cost me 9 gold? To answer that... yes. But only if I'm playing a VERY control-heavy deck or Unicorn. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From ajb818s at hotmail.com Sun Aug 1 21:35:58 2004 From: ajb818s at hotmail.com (Andrew Bloomgren) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 20:35:58 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 4 Message-ID: > > the current card designers have brought us: > > > > 1. horrible bias > > 2. bad mechanics > > 3. countless erratum > >Not sure what you mean by this, but you're the first person I've seen >use the singular "erratum" where a plural is called for. Most people >on this list apparently couldn't recognize "errata" as a plural if >their life depended on it. yes, it was the wrong word. yet, that doesn't change the point that letting the top tier players design cards yields cards which only have their interests in mind as opposed to whole of the game. _________________________________________________________________ Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to ?Dig Yourself Out of Debt? from MSN Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0407debt.armx _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From cloak72 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 1 21:40:08 2004 From: cloak72 at yahoo.com (Robert Van Natter) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 18:40:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Open letter to the designers of L5R and the In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040802014008.83030.qmail@web41812.mail.yahoo.com> No. The IDEAL way of leaving feedback would have been to privately emailed Jeff, Ray, John, Or ANYONE at AEG. Posting this sort of thing to a public list, and then spamming it to EVERY (Or at least a lot) of sites is the virtual equvilant of a temper tantrum. Now granted, this gentleman's was very polite, and calm, but if his goal was to leave feedback, a private email would have been better... This sort of action is about "Hey! Look at ME!", not "Well, I think that this could have been better." David Starr hated the thought of Age of Man. I don't recall him threatening to quit over it. THAT is public feedback (even if I disagree with his style/tone) with an eye on improving things. --- damourc wrote: > Sir, > I vehemently disagree. We know that the folks > at AEG do indeed read > this list so this is the ideal place to provide them > feedback. Now, said > feedback ought to be provided in a responsible, > courteous manner I agree. > Indeed, the gentleman that started this thread did > so. We, as customers, > owe AEG feedback. That way they can gauge what is > going on with > their customer base. > If their sales have been falling off and they > have received > no complaints, how do they respond? However, if > they have been getting > comments saying "I am unhappy for thus and such a > reason." then they can > use that as a basis for making changes and hopefully > increasing > participation and sales. > > On Sat, 31 Jul 2004, Ram?n Pe?a wrote: > > In this list? Probably never. Like 99,99% of > people reading this doesn't > > know who you are and gives a fig. You tell > privately your playgroup and > > that's it. > > -Kuni Mon > > -- > Christopher Damour > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > ===== Hiruma Ayslyn Crab Clan Professional Medler Scout Samurai Hero "We are all just Samurai brother, but when we stand together, we are the Crab" "Pain shared is pain divided; joy shared is joy multiplied" Everything I needed to know, I learned from drinking at Callahan's __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From CodyPayne21 at aol.com Sun Aug 1 21:40:48 2004 From: CodyPayne21 at aol.com (CodyPayne21 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:40:48 EDT Subject: [L5R-CCG] New Crab Sensei Message-ID: <85.1215b6d8.2e3ef5a0@aol.com> Tenshu Sensei is not very good. I play Crab and I love the Yu and I only play with samurais. I was hoping for something a little better. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From moosi at paradise.net.nz Sun Aug 1 22:01:30 2004 From: moosi at paradise.net.nz (Mark Williams) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 14:01:30 +1200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Wrath and Lions In-Reply-To: <0I1S00CG0QFXIG@linda-1.paradise.net.nz> References: <0I1S00CG0QFXIG@linda-1.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20040802135814.01b82a08@pop3.paradise.net.nz> Heh, just thought about it, and there's been a few times when on my opponants 3rd turn I've had 3x Aoiko and he's drawn all gold, so I could see it as being worthwhile. I actually think WotDL is more to stop people doing the massive formation as easily, since that's where swarm can really win out :) At 01:50 PM 8/2/2004 +1200, you wrote: > > The only peeps in my Lion deck who would get hit by Wrath are Aoiko. Want > > to spend 15 gold to destroy 3 peeps who cost me 15 gold and gained me 9 > > honour, or cost me 9 gold? > >To answer that... yes. But only if I'm playing a VERY control-heavy deck or >Unicorn. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Whitecat31 at aol.com Sun Aug 1 22:32:09 2004 From: Whitecat31 at aol.com (Whitecat31 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 22:32:09 EDT Subject: [L5R-CCG] New Crab Sensei Message-ID: <146.2fa92b62.2e3f01a9@aol.com> In a message dated 8/1/2004 6:41:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, CodyPayne21 at aol.com writes: > > Tenshu Sensei is not very good. I play Crab and I love the Yu and I only > play with samurais. I was hoping for something a little better. Lets see. Razor Edges Dojo Hida Utaemon 4 force 2 chi 9 gold gains force equal to the number of followers in his unit. Does not have YU Hida Hoitsu 5 force 3 chi 10 gold can not be challanged with a follower in his unit. Does not have YU Hida Ishi 3 force 3 chi 8 gold Ishi has +2F/+2C while opposed by an army with more units than his own army has.Ishi may not be bowed by other players' card effects. Does not have YU Hida Soh 5 force 3 chi 9 gold When bringing Soh into play, you may reduce his Gold cost by 2 and permanently give him -2C.Spell effects cannot target Soh while he is not in an army. Does not have YU Hida Tenshu 6 force 1 chi 7 gold.. not twice the force he dies.. but with this sensei who cares. Does not have YU Hida Tonoji 7 force 3 chi 9 gold.. Bow him if he is a coward for a turn. Does not have YU The deck basically builds itself. 18 meaty personalities that gain force for being opposed. All of them Hidas. Ok kids, can we follow along and play connect the dots? No rares and easy to build so far. Ok for the people who can't firgure it out. 20 Personalites. Add the Champ and Kaneka...why not? 17 gold holdings A favored Returned Gifts and Favors 3xSecluded Outpost 3xHiruma dojo.. why not..some of them are samurai 3xIron Mines Shrine to Jurojin Shrine to Daikoku Pick 3 other gold holdings...What you want me to tell you everything to do? (Optional) A New Wall as one of the gold holdings. Refugee of the Three sisters Proposal of Peace In Time of War Dynasty 3x Fury of the Dark Lord 3x Wedge 3x Berserker Rage 3x Political Adjunct 3x Iron Legion 3x War Council 3x Chitatchikkan 2x Blood Speaker Students 1x Veteran Spearman..This been spoiled yet? Clan Sword Anvil of Earth 3xBattle Field of Shallow Graves 2xWoodlands 3xHeart of Rokugan 3xWell Prepared Cards to fetch with the Sisters Desperate Wager Recruiting Drive Call to Arms What do you guys think? David Starr Whitecat31 GAB Vice-Admiral in the Golden Koku Team _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From diablo_5 at hotmail.com Sun Aug 1 22:33:21 2004 From: diablo_5 at hotmail.com (Andrew Laderoute) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 22:33:21 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] New Crab Sensei Message-ID: Tenshu Sensei is great! It caters to the mechanic that doesn't have much support, Berserkers. Yu already has good support cards, but Berserkers don't have as much. And let's face it, if I play with Tenshu Sensei, I'm not going to run Personalities with Yu, so the drawback is no big loss for me. This allows for some fun Berserker decks that can dish out big Force. And with the Force bonus, the current Berserkers in the environment, including Tr-ch'da, are at least 5F, so that can be pretty hard to contend with military wise. I like this Sensei a lot, and I have some good deck ideas with it. Maybe with the next Sensei, they can make it Yu oriented. And besides, with the name Tenshu Sensei, how could you expect it to be anything BUT Berserker oriented? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hida Ryushi 6F/6C 0HR/12G/2PH Crab Clan Samurai*Iron Legion Commander*Kisada's Fist*Tactician*Yu 5*Experienced*Unique Tactical Battle: Ryushi gains a Force bonus equal to his Yu value. Reaction: After any Attack Phase, you may take one Action card that checked Ryushi's Yu value from your Discard pile into your hand. "Of life and honour amongst the ashes of our history." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Powerful Parental Controls Let your child discover the best the Internet has to offer. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN? Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From pgrenier at charter.net Sun Aug 1 22:50:35 2004 From: pgrenier at charter.net (Paul Grenier) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 22:50:35 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: <001601c477fb$9f0d92a0$0a321d0a@marmotte> Message-ID: I'll preface this by saying I played Magic from beta through Ice Age. "Reset" cards like Wrath of God (destroy all creatures) or Armageddon (destroy all lands) or Upheaval (return all permanents to owners' hands) are always going to find a place in tourney decks. It's just too powerful to ignore. >OK, let's see... Who attach the walking? Usually a small peep, early game, >so it's killed by it. My SL Chi-death shuggies are 7g. Goblin Wizard messes up the ToT9k ability early on and no room for Overwhelmed. However, I'm missing all the battle actions that help break provinces, I need to clear the way for the big guys. Run 1 and walk/sisters to get it to stop running into lion and crane "go home" stuff. >Refuge? It's a peep, a 5 chi peep, so you remove one of your asset from the >game to get it + 15 gold. All peeps bow to the courtier control regardless of chi, so it's still the best option whether you run "go home" or "big unit" military. Besides, refuge is not printed chi, so you can pump to fish for it--lots of options for that. >Monks? Wow, illumination is already ull deck, don't habve much room, and >anyway use cheap peeps. Monks don't gain honor when trying to enlighten, so they need to fend off Kaukatsu as best they can, it's only 1 card and will give them the best chance against the bomb. Not running one would be the mistake. >Military trade off? OK, if you have no one costing less than 7 out and your >opponent have 2, you already have large troubles no? Yeah, I didn't mention military. Unicorn, SL military, Crab have nothing to fear and it doesn't help to run it so why bother? I agree that a lot of people will alter their decks since it can't be prevented (with current cards or previewed cards). But everyone except SL should consider fitting it in. At a recent tourney near Atlanta there were 8 scorps out of 50 players. Four of them made the top 16. As top SL, I got eliminated first round by a lion honor-runner and all the scorps won their first matches--so half of the top 8 were dishonor decks. At the top levels you WILL face dishonor decks. Those decks depend on cheap peeps. If you want to improve your odds of winning, you run a FotDL. If you don't care or can't fish for it, you leave it in the binder. Paul _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From CodyPayne21 at aol.com Sun Aug 1 22:58:24 2004 From: CodyPayne21 at aol.com (CodyPayne21 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 22:58:24 EDT Subject: [L5R-CCG] New Crab Sensei Message-ID: OK i understand now it is better than I thought. I am sorry for mindless email I was not thinking clearly. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From beattyr2003 at earthlink.net Sun Aug 1 23:29:27 2004 From: beattyr2003 at earthlink.net (Robert Beatty) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 23:29:27 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] An open letter to those who are complaining. Message-ID: <000501c47840$ed50ebc0$fc9579a5@DFDWZP21> I am truly appalled by you people. Do you have ANY idea how much work the members of the DT put into cards? Do you have ANY clue at all what future plans are and which might influence what is on a card currently? No, I didn't think so. Instead you (collectively) come accross like a bunch of whining snotty nosed spoiled brats. The entire community is feeling extremely hostile. Sure there are issues, but some of the requests and complaints are just utterly rediculous! On top of that, then we get to the personal attacks against the AEG employees. Thats just great. All class there. How would any of you self appointed L5R experts like to have your job performance dragged through the mud in a forum in the manner many of you have been doing? I don't think any of you would unless your a politician and then thats what goes with the territory. I think a great majority of you need to re-read your posts about a dozen times, go take a nap, then come back and read them again before hitting the Send key. This kind of mentality keeps up and it will be the players that kill L5R's community not AEG. Bayushi Daremo Scorpion Clan *Ninja* Samurai Troublemaker ****Utterly disgusted with the whole lot of you**** _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From ShinjoShonoExp2 at aol.com Sun Aug 1 23:43:42 2004 From: ShinjoShonoExp2 at aol.com (ShinjoShonoExp2 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 23:43:42 EDT Subject: [L5R-CCG] An open letter to those who are complaining. Message-ID: <127.470f3125.2e3f126e@aol.com> I Completly agree. If every card ever made was good enough to put in every deck it wouuld not be a CCG it would be like poker. Diversity and Situational cards are what make CCG so fun and different. Some cards are only good in some deck thats what makes this game fun!!!!!!!!!! Shinjo Chimera Unicorn Clan Horsemaster, Rider, Crane clan "Leave battle to the Utaku and Moto give me the plains and the wind in my face"-Shinjo Jinturi In a message dated 8/1/2004 9:30:25 PM Mountain Standard Time, beattyr2003 at earthlink.net writes: I am truly appalled by you people. Do you have ANY idea how much work the members of the DT put into cards? Do you have ANY clue at all what future plans are and which might influence what is on a card currently? No, I didn't think so. Instead you (collectively) come accross like a bunch of whining snotty nosed spoiled brats. The entire community is feeling extremely hostile. Sure there are issues, but some of the requests and complaints are just utterly rediculous! On top of that, then we get to the personal attacks against the AEG employees. Thats just great. All class there. How would any of you self appointed L5R experts like to have your job performance dragged through the mud in a forum in the manner many of you have been doing? I don't think any of you would unless your a politician and then thats what goes with the territory. I think a great majority of you need to re-read your posts about a dozen times, go take a nap, then come back and read them again before hitting the Send key. This kind of mentality keeps up and it will be the players that kill L5R's community not AEG. Bayushi Daremo Scorpion Clan *Ninja* Samurai Troublemaker ****Utterly disgusted with the whole lot of you**** _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Kirbdog53 at aol.com Sun Aug 1 23:55:23 2004 From: Kirbdog53 at aol.com (Kirbdog53 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 23:55:23 EDT Subject: [L5R-CCG] An open letter to those who are complaining. Message-ID: <62.41838d1c.2e3f152b@aol.com> <<>> Who appointed you judge and jury? I find whining about people complaining to be much more counterproductive, and wasteful of time, than people complaining in the first place. Of course, I'm just as bad as you, because whining about people whining about people complaining is even worse. Gary _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Whitecat31 at aol.com Mon Aug 2 01:01:44 2004 From: Whitecat31 at aol.com (Whitecat31 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 01:01:44 EDT Subject: [L5R-CCG] An open letter to those who are complaining. Message-ID: <104.4cc352c0.2e3f24b8@aol.com> In a message dated 8/1/2004 8:30:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, beattyr2003 at earthlink.net writes: > On top of that, then we get to the personal attacks against the > AEG employees. Thats just great. All class there. I really did not see these...Anybody? David Starr Whitecat31 GAB Vice-Admiral in the Golden Koku Team _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From drandragr at aol.com Mon Aug 2 01:37:28 2004 From: drandragr at aol.com (Dran) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 22:37:28 -0700 Subject: [L5R-CCG] An open letter to those who are complaining. Message-ID: <410DD318.3010505@aol.com> I must strongly disagree with this point. Despite how it may seem at first, objecting to an objection is not trivial. Rather, it demonstrates that not everyone agrees with the objection. What you are suggesting is that anyone who thinks things are fine and that some vocal people are not justified in their opinions should keep that to themselves. The result of this mentality is that anyone who objects to something will be heard and anyone who supports that thing will not be. Since the opinions of people who do not speak their minds can not be determined, this will result in an inaccurate view of the overall situation. It is, I think, -very- important for people who support something to make that known. The specific post to which you replied may have been inappropriate for a variety of reasons, but I do not agree that the one you have given is one of them. --Paul Gary wrote: > I find whining about people complaining to be much more > counterproductive, > and wasteful of time, than people complaining in the first place. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jkkotz at yahoo.com Mon Aug 2 02:51:38 2004 From: jkkotz at yahoo.com (James Kotz) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 23:51:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] An open letter to those who are complaining. In-Reply-To: <410DD318.3010505@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040802065138.82071.qmail@web21427.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dran wrote: > > I must strongly disagree with this point. Despite > how it may seem at > first, objecting to an objection is not trivial. > Rather, it demonstrates > that not everyone agrees with the objection. What > you are suggesting is > that anyone who thinks things are fine and that some > vocal people are > not justified in their opinions should keep that to > themselves. How about instead of complaining about complainers, those who disagree can simply say what they do like about L5R? Even better, it will give AEG an idea of what isn't liked (things people complain about), things that are liked (things people praise), and the things no one cares about (things no mentions at all). Also, no one is "pushed" into being silent, it is easier to avoid posts about people instead of ideas, and posts stay on topic (unless the topic for this list is talking about people who don't like L5R). Much better than having people rant about people whining about those who complain about the naysayers, agreed? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From duchon.philippe at free.fr Mon Aug 2 03:01:29 2004 From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 09:01:29 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] New Crab Sensei In-Reply-To: <85.1215b6d8.2e3ef5a0@aol.com> References: <85.1215b6d8.2e3ef5a0@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040802090129.4e7be114.duchon.philippe@free.fr> On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:40:48 EDT CodyPayne21 at aol.com wrote: > Tenshu Sensei is not very good. I play Crab and I love the Yu and I > only play with samurais. I was hoping for something a little better. Your argument against Tenshu isn't a very good one - maybe improving the playability of full-Yu Samurai Crab decks (which are currently very playable) wasn't the goal of this sensei? This Sensei is quite useful - if you're ready to play something different. "I play this and like to use that and the sensei doesn't help my deck" isn't a good argument against it. -- Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jason.coble at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 03:16:30 2004 From: jason.coble at gmail.com (Jason Coble) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 08:16:30 +0100 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Errated Lion SH In-Reply-To: <9d.4b8ed6df.2e3ef411@aol.com> References: <9d.4b8ed6df.2e3ef411@aol.com> Message-ID: <7f3611ad04080200165303c482@mail.gmail.com> please reread the card the 6 gold lion personalities are destroyed by the Fury of the Dark Lord. Jason On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:34:09 EDT, luftmorder at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/1/04 6:20:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > moosi at paradise.net.nz writes: > > > The only peeps in my Lion deck who would get hit by Wrath are Aoiko. Want > > to spend 15 gold to destroy 3 peeps who cost me 15 gold and gained me 9 > > honour, or cost me 9 gold? > > To answer that... yes. But only if I'm playing a VERY control-heavy deck or > Unicorn. > > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jsarment at chipidea.com Mon Aug 2 05:54:25 2004 From: jsarment at chipidea.com (Jose Angelo Sarmento) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 10:54:25 +0100 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] more for Jeff - yes, I know I'm a pain in the ass. In-Reply-To: References: <20040730174238.30987.qmail@web40406.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <410E0F51.70802@chipidea.com> Also related to this, does a Dark Path of Shadow player get to reshuffle this card at 0 cost always (for the Stronghold's cost reduction which does not make it cost less than 0 but comes into effect when the cost is raised)? I am asking of course about the final errata'ed version of the card if there is to be one... Thanks, Jose Sarmento Jeff Alexander wrote: >> 1 Announce Action >> 1a reactions to Announce Action >> 2 Choose Targets >> 2a reactions to Choose Targets >> 3 Pay Costs >> 3a reactions to Pay Costs >> 4 Resolve Effects >> 4a reactions to Resolve Effects >> >> Strike With No Shadow >> 0G >> Ninja Limited: Bow one of your Ninja Personalities to >> target a player. If any of his Provinces hold cards, >> target and discard one of these cards; otherwise >> destroy one of that player's Personalities of his >> choice. You may increase this card's Gold cost by 2 >> to shuffle it into your deck instead of discarding it >> after playing it. >> >> 1 Announce >> I'm going to play Strike With no Shadow >> 2 Target >> I target you and I choose your leftmost province >> 3 Pay Costs >> I pay 0 gold >> 4 Resolve Effects >> a. I discard the card and you refill the province >> b. I increase the card's Gold cost by 2 and shuffle >> it into my fate deck instead of discardin it after >> playing it. >> >> The gold cost of the card is now 2. If I draw the >> card and use it again before the end of the turn, I'll >> have to pay 2 gold. If I draw it at the end of my >> turn and play it next turn, it costs 0 gold again >> because card changes wear off at the end of the turn. >> >> Why was the "increase the card's Gold cost" clause >> added to this card since it won't really matter 99% of >> the time or more? Was it supposed to be "permanently >> increase..."? > > > No. It was supposed to be an alternate way of playing the card, not > one of its effects. > > I'll see just exactly how the Design Team wants to errata it. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From axl_2baz at hotmail.com Mon Aug 2 06:09:21 2004 From: axl_2baz at hotmail.com (David MENIERE) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:09:21 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [Rules] some questions. Message-ID: 1) My Bayushi Kanman XP have 2 chi. Can I use his ability ? 2) From the accumulated rulings : "Any single card or action that brings a card into play and gives it the Shadowlands trait is considered to be "bringing a Shadowlands card into play" regardless of the exact relative timing of the two effects." Can this ruling be extended to other traits, such as Bloodspeaker with the temple of Snakes ? 3) Can the chi loss of Temple of Snakes be redirected with Yajinden ? 4) I have a dishonnored personnality. I attach her an honor gaining item (blessed sword, celestial, Imperial Standard). Is my personnality restored to honor ? Thanks. ++ Axl_2baz _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger http://g.msn.fr/FR1001/866 : dialoguez en direct et gratuitement avec vos amis ! _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From togashi.shin at free.fr Mon Aug 2 06:17:52 2004 From: togashi.shin at free.fr (Togashi Imura) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 12:17:52 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [Rules] Moving and attaching References: Message-ID: <00a401c47879$fa04c8d0$0400a8c0@Nonoportable> When I move an item from peep A to peep B, do I attach the item to peep B or not ? Well, this is my shortest question ever ^^... I felt like adding a sentence or two :D Togashi Imura _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From geijhan at pandora.be Mon Aug 2 06:49:21 2004 From: geijhan at pandora.be (geijhan) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 12:49:21 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] An open letter to those who are complaining. References: <104.4cc352c0.2e3f24b8@aol.com> Message-ID: <005801c4787e$5e287a60$2100a8c0@Upcbelgium.be> > In a message dated 8/1/2004 8:30:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > beattyr2003 at earthlink.net writes: > > > On top of that, then we get to the personal attacks against the > > AEG employees. Thats just great. All class there. > > I really did not see these...Anybody? > > David Starr > Whitecat31 GAB Vice-Admiral in the Golden Koku Team Not sure if there were any on the mailing list, there have been personal attacks on the Kobune Port, though. I can't blame the original poster for thinking it all blends together, either. Geijhan _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From duchon.philippe at free.fr Mon Aug 2 07:10:35 2004 From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:10:35 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [Rules] some questions. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040802131035.1f235caa.duchon.philippe@free.fr> On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:09:21 +0200 "David MENIERE" wrote: > 1) My Bayushi Kanman XP have 2 chi. Can I use his ability ? > Yes, and the effect will resolve. > 2) From the accumulated rulings : "Any single card or action that brings > a card into play and gives it the Shadowlands trait is considered to be > "bringing a Shadowlands card into play" regardless of the exact relative > timing of the two effects." > > Can this ruling be extended to other traits, such as Bloodspeaker with > the temple of Snakes ? I suppose so. > > 3) Can the chi loss of Temple of Snakes be redirected with Yajinden ? > >From the Accumulated Rulings (under Traits): Effects from traits gain bold-faced keywords from the card they are printed on (e.g., Chi loss from Temples of the Snake is a Maho effect). [JA, 2 December 2003] So, yes. > 4) I have a dishonnored personnality. I attach her an honor gaining item > (blessed sword, celestial, Imperial Standard). Is my personnality > restored to honor ? Yes. -- Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Kirbdog53 at aol.com Mon Aug 2 08:17:46 2004 From: Kirbdog53 at aol.com (Kirbdog53 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 08:17:46 EDT Subject: [L5R-CCG] An open letter to those who are complaining. Message-ID: <1a2.27766a64.2e3f8aea@aol.com> In a message dated 8/1/2004 10:31:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, drandragr at aol.com writes: <<>> You do that by expressing your satisfaction with the way things are, not by attacking those who express their dissatisfaction. Gary _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From kenneth.wright at mirant.com Mon Aug 2 08:37:33 2004 From: kenneth.wright at mirant.com (Wright, Kenneth) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 08:37:33 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [Rules] Re: Bonuses and Penalties Message-ID: <2D321821BDADF341AFEA6ECB1EA2DBFE3F62A0@ATLEXMS02.na.mirant.net> Could you provide a link or page source to the second half of the rule? *I'm at work and don't have access to a rulebook, so if it's in there, I apoliogise ahead of time, but I could not find any such thing when I looked earlier.* -----Original Message----- From: L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com [mailto:L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com]On Behalf Of Robert Van Natter Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 7:53 AM To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] [Rules] Re: Bonuses and Penalties Assumption #2 is not entirely correct. You forgot the second half of that rule. "- unless the reason for the increase is that a penalty expired or an existing penalty or bonus changed. Likewise, if a number decreases, it's receiving a "penalty."" Therefor, it could be argued that Nobuyoki is not creating a chi loss, but reducing a chi bonus. --- "Wright, Kenneth" wrote: > Okay, I searched through the accululated rulings and > found bubkus on this one, but others swear to me > that it's been asked and posted (I can't find it > anywhere) > > > Heres the cards in question: > Tamori Nobuyoki > Dragon Clan Bloodspeaker > Maho Open: Bow Nobuyoki to reduce an Item's Force or > Chi to 0. > > Yajinden > 4/6 > Shugenja. Bloodspeaker. Shadowlands. Unique > Maho Reaction: Once per turn, before one of your > Personalities loses Chi due to a Maho effect, > redirect the loss to any Personality in play. > Yajinden may use this ability while bowed. > > Inazuma Blade > +3/+3 > Weapon. Unique > Inazuma Blade is both a Spell and an Item. > > Assumption #1) Okay, it has been verified several > times on here that a weapon (or follower with a > +x/+x) adds it's stats directly to the personality > in question. > > Assumption #2) During the whole Force of Will > question it has been determined that ANYTIME a > personality's stats drop from a higher number to a > lower number it is considered a loss/penalty. (Thus > why the Force of Will combo works) > > Situation: Player A has Nobuyoki and Yajinden out. > Yajinden has an Inazuma Blade equipped. Tamori bows > to reduce the Inazuma Blade from a +3 to a +0 thus > giving Yajinden a loss of 3 Chi (as per previous > official rulings regarding loss of Chi from weapons > on this forum) thus since a Maho Effect (Nobuyoki's > Maho Open) created a loss of chi on one of Player > A's personalities Yajinden should be able to > redirect the loss to another personality. > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > ===== Hiruma Ayslyn Crab Clan Professional Medler Scout Samurai Hero "We are all just Samurai brother, but when we stand together, we are the Crab" "Pain shared is pain divided; joy shared is joy multiplied" Everything I needed to know, I learned from drinking at Callahan's __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From ajb818s at hotmail.com Mon Aug 2 09:04:49 2004 From: ajb818s at hotmail.com (Andrew Bloomgren) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 08:04:49 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] An open letter to those who are complaining. Message-ID: >Do you have ANY idea how much work the members of the DT put into cards? >Do >you have ANY clue at all what future plans are and which might influence >what is on a card currently? with watch lists, heaps of errata, infinite combos, and public apology and admission of bad design, i think the answer to how much work the memebers of the design team have done is "none of quality". the wrong people are making decisions about the game. _________________________________________________________________ Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From btouellette at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 09:17:02 2004 From: btouellette at gmail.com (Brian Ouellette) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 09:17:02 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Pick Your Battles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Did you even read the card? Reaction: Play before your army is destroyed for losing or tying in a battle. Only one unit of your choice in your army is destroyed. The rest return to their controllers' homes, bowed. Your opponent in the battle still gains honor as if your entire army had been destroyed. The first two sentences refer to "your army" and then in the third "the rest" is used. That means it is speaking about "the rest" of "your army". So in short, in a tie your opponent's army dies but if you Pick Your Battles only one unit in yours dies. On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 16:46:10 -0400, Andrew Laderoute wrote: > PYB cancels all unit destruction in all armies, save the one unit you > destroy. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From mls14 at mac.com Mon Aug 2 10:03:06 2004 From: mls14 at mac.com (Matthew Smith) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:03:06 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] New Crab Sensei In-Reply-To: <20040802090129.4e7be114.duchon.philippe@free.fr> References: <85.1215b6d8.2e3ef5a0@aol.com> <20040802090129.4e7be114.duchon.philippe@free.fr> Message-ID: On Aug 2, 2004, at 03:01, Philippe Duchon wrote: > On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:40:48 EDT > CodyPayne21 at aol.com wrote: > >> Tenshu Sensei is not very good. I play Crab and I love the Yu and I >> only play with samurais. I was hoping for something a little better. I have to give kudos to AEG. I remember when Yu first appeared on the scene, and for a long time after that people talked about how much it sucked. Now it seems Crab players are reluctant to give it up in exchange for a Sensei with good abilities for Berserkers. I think it's funny that every single time there is a sensei released, everybody says "oh this sucks." I feel quite differently about these senseis. I'm pretty tired of seeing the same style decks all the time, and these senseis will allow for some different designs to be feasible. Matthew _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From daidoji_gisei at yahoo.com Mon Aug 2 10:05:07 2004 From: daidoji_gisei at yahoo.com (Daidoji Gisei) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:05:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Gencon Barcelona: The Hidden Heart of Iuchiban In-Reply-To: <20040801091011.65d2183c.duchon.philippe@free.fr> Message-ID: <20040802140507.99257.qmail@web50207.mail.yahoo.com> --- Philippe Duchon wrote: > > Nice thread, makes me wonder if I really want to go to > GenCon if this kind of attitude is anywhere near frequent > among North American players. I wouldn't take it too seriously--a large fraction of posts on the Kobune Port seem to be dedicated to Ritual Posturing. > (too late - got my ticket already) Well, *I'll* be happy to finally meet you. I'm planning on packing some hats to make it easier to find me. ;) Nancy Sauer "...what distinguishes fashion from clothes is a sense of narrative; clothes merely dress, but fashion can tell stories." -Josh Patner,_Slate_ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From shadow_2517 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 2 10:43:13 2004 From: shadow_2517 at yahoo.com (shadow_2517) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:43:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] New Crab Sensei Message-ID: <20040802144313.35217.qmail@web41602.mail.yahoo.com> >Ok for the people who can't firgure it out. Speak, sensei, and we will listen... >20 Personalites. Add the Champ and Kaneka...why not? >17 gold holdings >A favored Returned >Gifts and Favors >3xSecluded Outpost >3xHiruma dojo.. why not..some of them are samurai >3xIron Mines >Shrine to Jurojin >Shrine to Daikoku >Pick 3 other gold holdings...What you want me to tell you everything to do? >(Optional) A New Wall as one of the gold holdings. >Refugee of the Three sisters >Proposal of Peace >In Time of War > >Dynasty >3x Fury of the Dark Lord >3x Wedge >3x Berserker Rage >3x Political Adjunct >3x Iron Legion >3x War Council >3x Chitatchikkan >2x Blood Speaker Students >1x Veteran Spearman..This been spoiled yet? > >Clan Sword >Anvil of Earth > >3xBattle Field of Shallow Graves >2xWoodlands >3xHeart of Rokugan >3xWell Prepared > >Cards to fetch with the Sisters > >Desperate Wager >Recruiting Drive >Call to Arms > >What do you guys think? I think that this is, without a doubt, the single best deck I've ever seen!!!! I can't wait to build this MONSTER! SWEET! To think I was so stupid that I couldn't figure out how to build this super-elite WRECKING MACHINE! I will totally pwn my friend's unbeatable Crane courtier honor rocket now! Thanks, David! The Crab clan owes you one! - Chris Ewbank Hida Kuma * Crab Clan Samurai __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From cloak72 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 2 10:43:44 2004 From: cloak72 at yahoo.com (Robert Van Natter) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:43:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] [Rules] Re: Bonuses and Penalties In-Reply-To: <2D321821BDADF341AFEA6ECB1EA2DBFE3F62A0@ATLEXMS02.na.mirant.net> Message-ID: <20040802144344.59494.qmail@web41813.mail.yahoo.com> Pg. 62, Bonuses and Penalties --- "Wright, Kenneth" wrote: > Could you provide a link or page source to the > second half of the rule? > > *I'm at work and don't have access to a rulebook, so > if it's in there, I apoliogise ahead of time, but I > could not find any such thing when I looked > earlier.* > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com > [mailto:L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com]On > Behalf Of Robert Van Natter > Sen