From jst1vaughn at mindspring.com  Wed Dec  1 08:19:36 2004
From: jst1vaughn at mindspring.com (Vaughn Derderian)
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 08:19:36 -0500
Subject: [L5R-CCG] And lo, there came a herald...
Message-ID: <41ADC4E8.6020909@mindspring.com>


Many are the voices I have heard, crying out for a leader, one who could 
give guidance on the proper way for L5R players to behave in 
tournaments, one who could teach the people of the world of right and 
wrong, one who knows the value of foily cards.

L5R players of the world, your savior is here.  I implore all of you, 
take heed to the wisdom of...Bayushi Rick.

***

Originally found at:

http://www.tsuruchi.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9046&start=56

<Translated from the Kobune Port>

Greetings.

I play with a LOT of foils in my deck, a lot.

I shuffle my deck adequately. If you don't think I do, you can ask me to 
shuffle it. Most likely I will say no, because I play with a lot of 
foils. IF YOU TRY TO TOUCH MY <gosh darn> DECK WITHOUT ASKING/AFTER I 
TELL YOU NOT TO I WILL DONKEY PUNCH YOU.

If you require my deck to be shuffled further, or are not satisfied with 
you only being allowed to cut my deck, get a judge, and prepare for me 
to be a rules lawyering <person>.

I don't tolerate <shenanigans>, and many a table has been 
flipped/elbowdropped because of it.

***

I would speak more in praise of glorious Bayushi Rick, but I have miles 
to go before I sleep, and the weight of my burden is heavy.  For the 
first in what I hope to be a series of musings on the wisdom of Bayushi 
Rick, please journey to:

http://www.tsuruchi.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9046&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=82

Blessed be, and may all your decks have a LOT (a lot) of foils.

-- 
Vaughn

     * Herald of Bayushi Rick
     * The Random Ninja

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From lyversj at bellsouth.net  Wed Dec  1 08:24:24 2004
From: lyversj at bellsouth.net (James Lyvers)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 08:24:24 -0500
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Restoring Doji Treasury and Unicity
In-Reply-To: <00f101c4d617$51299cd0$468ae78a@imuradono>
Message-ID: <NIBBJKPIOLCLIOIPKDHLMEHHFLAA.lyversj@bellsouth.net>

I believe there is a ruling in the archive that states that it starts with
active player and goes around the table, just like Regions of Rokugan.

Akodo James

-----Original Message-----
From: L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com [mailto:L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com]On
Behalf Of Togashi Imura
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 8:29 AM
To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Restoring Doji Treasury and Unicity


I wanted to know which player is able to put a chosen holding in play. It
should matter in case of unique holdings (e.g. Shogun's Barrack) if both
players want to bring the same one in play.

Togashi Imura




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From mwhitman2 at comcast.net  Wed Dec  1 10:15:15 2004
From: mwhitman2 at comcast.net (mwhitman2 at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 15:15:15 +0000
Subject: [L5R-CCG] Problems with a Player at my tournament
Message-ID: <120120041515.25168.41ADE0020008DDBC000062502200734748CD020E039B07089903@comcast.net>


I've been running tournaments for well over a year now. Most of my game range from 6-14 players in the last year. Most of my players are newbies, Under 18, but have good Play skills. A couple of months ago a guy "Demetri" moved  from South Florida up here to Tallahassee Fl. Out of 40+ tournaments I have never had a problem with  my players accepting my rulings, or anything else.  I cant same the same for Demetri.  Demetri is an experinced player and has played with experienced players before moving here.  He's been playing since before GOLD Edition. The problem I'm having is instead of my Events running smooth like usual I find myself spending more time with the oldest player "Demeteri"  telling him  how, why, and when certain things come into effect or just giving him the basic rules/errata's. Examples:  Keen Eye Vs A Time is Not Right. Egg of Pan Ku, Plains of Ostan Uchi, Redirecting actions the list goes on..... Like I said though I dont have this problem with my other players at all.  One of his best sayings is "if it is not in the rule book then it is not a rule"! this made me laugh so hard. I quickly played him several times with Kyuden Bayushi Gozuko deck, and said "boy it's a good thing the errata is not in the rule book for this nasty deck". Just to make a point! Here is his reply to a ruling from the rule archive for Plains of Ostan Uchi
If it gets attached to a Province while that Province is being revealed during the Events Phase, the second card can be revealed before moving to the next Province. [JA, 17 February 2004; 26 August 2004] 
Well, the card is much older than Feb 2004, plus it's pretty much just a statement... not a clarification of why the rules which specifically prohibit it do not apply as stated. However if that's your ruling a TD, I'm going to accept playing by it in your tournament.

Now you see he is willing to accept my ruling/Aechive ruling, but is not satisfied at all with the rule. Almost like he still does not believe that is the way the card works now. At that tournament when this came up we argued over this for a good five minutes making it less enjoyable enviroment for 2 new players that where there. It came to me saying this is my ruling when, and when you enter my event you go by my ruling WRONG OR RIGHT! I need players I dont won't to baned the guy or anything I just need a fresh idea of how to break the rulings to this guy without having a scene.  SORRY FOR THE RANT 

                                                                             Thanks Monroe
                                                                             BH/TO of Tallahassee
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From mklein at printtime.com  Wed Dec  1 10:39:21 2004
From: mklein at printtime.com (Mark Klein)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 09:39:21 -0600
Subject: [L5R-CCG] Problems with a Player at my tournament
In-Reply-To: <120120041515.25168.41ADE0020008DDBC000062502200734748CD020E039B07089903@c
	omcast.net>
References: <120120041515.25168.41ADE0020008DDBC000062502200734748CD020E039B07089903@c
	omcast.net>
Message-ID: <a06100502bdd395813595@[192.168.1.27]>

I'd just take him aside at the beginning of your next tournament and 
tell him this is how its going to be, I want you to play and have 
fun, but my final answer is THE final answer and there will be NO 
argument. be nice, but tell him if he can't abide those rules then 
maybe he should reevaluate if he wants to play in your 
tournaments......Don't be the bad guy, just make him decide.
-- 
Mark Klein
Graphic Designer
Print Time E.P.P.

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From dm4hire at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  1 11:00:30 2004
From: dm4hire at hotmail.com (Joseph Provenzano)
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 10:00:30 -0600
Subject: [L5R-CCG] Problems with a Player at my tournament
In-Reply-To: <a06100502bdd395813595@[192.168.1.27]>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F3792CA06FEE68B24746F0CE4BF0@phx.gbl>

My recommendation is to get with the store owner and make a tournament 
guideline for the store referencing game play and ruling issues.  Then post 
it.  You as the TO have final say, but it will help to have it written down 
and the store's support so that what you say is the final call right or 
wrong.  Make the players aware of it.  Also post the latest Code of Bushido 
in the store as well.  Make sure the players read both.  Stops a lot of 
problems and reinforces your standing as the TO if issues get hot.

DM4Hire



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From yoritomo.somori at yobanjin.org  Wed Dec  1 11:46:25 2004
From: yoritomo.somori at yobanjin.org (Simon Gill)
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 16:46:25 +0000
Subject: [L5R-CCG] A plea
Message-ID: <41ADF561.9010400@yobanjin.org>

Would it be possible to have the definition and clarification of 
unopposed added to the accumulated rulings. I have a horrible feeling 
it's going to cause serious problems for player's of the Pride in 
tournaments.

-- 
Mantis Emissary to the <a href="http://matrix.netsoc.tcd.ie/~matsu/phpBB2/index.php">Lower Courts</a>

I donated to <a href="http://tsuruchi.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8950&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=">Feed the Lost</a>


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From kantreid at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  1 11:47:59 2004
From: kantreid at yahoo.com (Arthur Reid)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 08:47:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [L5R-CCG] And lo, there came a herald...
In-Reply-To: <41ADC4E8.6020909@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20041201164759.84021.qmail@web50606.mail.yahoo.com>

I have to say this is one of the greatest posts in L5R
history.

Go Vaughn

Art
--- Vaughn Derderian <jst1vaughn at mindspring.com>
wrote:

> 
> Many are the voices I have heard, crying out for a
> leader, one who could 
> give guidance on the proper way for L5R players to
> behave in 
> tournaments, one who could teach the people of the
> world of right and 
> wrong, one who knows the value of foily cards.
> 
> L5R players of the world, your savior is here.  I
> implore all of you, 
> take heed to the wisdom of...Bayushi Rick.
> 
> ***
> 
> Originally found at:
> 
>
http://www.tsuruchi.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9046&start=56
> 
> <Translated from the Kobune Port>
> 
> Greetings.
> 
> I play with a LOT of foils in my deck, a lot.
> 
> I shuffle my deck adequately. If you don't think I
> do, you can ask me to 
> shuffle it. Most likely I will say no, because I
> play with a lot of 
> foils. IF YOU TRY TO TOUCH MY <gosh darn> DECK
> WITHOUT ASKING/AFTER I 
> TELL YOU NOT TO I WILL DONKEY PUNCH YOU.
> 
> If you require my deck to be shuffled further, or
> are not satisfied with 
> you only being allowed to cut my deck, get a judge,
> and prepare for me 
> to be a rules lawyering <person>.
> 
> I don't tolerate <shenanigans>, and many a table has
> been 
> flipped/elbowdropped because of it.
> 
> ***
> 
> I would speak more in praise of glorious Bayushi
> Rick, but I have miles 
> to go before I sleep, and the weight of my burden is
> heavy.  For the 
> first in what I hope to be a series of musings on
> the wisdom of Bayushi 
> Rick, please journey to:
> 
>
http://www.tsuruchi.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9046&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=82
> 
> Blessed be, and may all your decks have a LOT (a
> lot) of foils.
> 
> -- 
> Vaughn
> 
>      * Herald of Bayushi Rick
>      * The Random Ninja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> L5r-ccg mailing list
> L5r-ccg at alderac.com
>
http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com
> 


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From patryn150 at sunflower.com  Wed Dec  1 12:18:46 2004
From: patryn150 at sunflower.com (Alex Hawman)
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 11:18:46 -0600
Subject: [L5R-CCG] And lo, there came a herald...
In-Reply-To: <20041201164759.84021.qmail@web50606.mail.yahoo.com>;
	from kantreid@yahoo.com on Wed, 1 Dec 2004 08:47:59 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <200412011718.iB1HIkqE011418@webmail.sunflower.com>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Url: http://h4x0r5.com/pipermail/l5rinfo/attachments/20041201/7dd2d6a0/attachment.diff 

From shosurokenshin at gmail.com  Wed Dec  1 15:21:46 2004
From: shosurokenshin at gmail.com (Shosuro Kenshin)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 12:21:46 -0800
Subject: [L5R-CCG] Problems with a Player at my tournament
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F3792CA06FEE68B24746F0CE4BF0@phx.gbl>
References: <a06100502bdd395813595@192.168.1.27>
	<BAY101-F3792CA06FEE68B24746F0CE4BF0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8cabb44604120112213fb81437@mail.gmail.com>

Definately show him the code of bushido. If he continues to argue,
disqualify him for "stalling." He's not playing the game when he
should be, he's arguing with a judge over a ruling, and that's taking
up time. 5 minutes by your account. That's clearly stalling and the
poor sport player should auto-lose the current round for doing it.
Other parts of the Code of Bushido which you should point out to this
player are rule 9 and the "resolving conflicts" section.
9. Card Legality
Players are responsible for being familiar with the most recent L5R
card rulings for the represented tournament environment. Card legality
is based on the standard policy: New sets are legal 30 days from their
date of release, and promos are legal 30 days from the release date of
the set following their release.

Resolving Conflicts
When two players in a game cannot agree on a card's function or other
game rule, either player may call upon head judge (or appointed floor
judges) to make a decision. By entering a sanctioned tournament, all
players agree to
abide by any and all rulings and decisions made by tournament
officials. If a floor judge makes a ruling a player believes to be in
error, the player may appeal to the head judge without penalty. The
head judge's rulings and
decisions are final.

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 10:00:30 -0600, Joseph Provenzano
<dm4hire at hotmail.com> wrote:
> My recommendation is to get with the store owner and make a tournament
> guideline for the store referencing game play and ruling issues.  Then post
> it.  You as the TO have final say, but it will help to have it written down
> and the store's support so that what you say is the final call right or
> wrong.  Make the players aware of it.  Also post the latest Code of Bushido
> in the store as well.  Make sure the players read both.  Stops a lot of
> problems and reinforces your standing as the TO if issues get hot.
> 
> DM4Hire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> L5r-ccg mailing list
> L5r-ccg at alderac.com
> http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com
> 


-- 
Shosuro Kenshin

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From tkdyanni at ameritech.net  Wed Dec  1 17:31:52 2004
From: tkdyanni at ameritech.net (jon)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 14:31:52 -0800
Subject: [L5R-CCG] Jeff ?  Ray's contact info?   
Message-ID: <000a01c4d7f5$90941640$ce28fea9@v2z1v1>

I need to get ahold of Ray, does anyone have his contact info?

Thanks,
Jon
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From Sphynx at aol.com  Wed Dec  1 15:32:15 2004
From: Sphynx at aol.com (Sphynx at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 15:32:15 -0500
Subject: [L5R-CCG] Problems with a Player at my tournament
Message-ID: <0FDD303F.73D801F4.000547D6@aol.com>

>I'd just take him aside at the beginning of your next tournament and 
>tell him this is how its going to be, I want you to play and have 
>fun, but my final answer is THE final answer and there will be NO 
>argument. be nice, but tell him if he can't abide those rules then 
>maybe he should reevaluate if he wants to play in your 
>tournaments......Don't be the bad guy, just make him decide.
>-- 
>Mark Klein

Of the suggestions I've seen, this is the *least* antagonistic.  It's brilliant.  Take the player aside where the player doesn't lose face in front of anyone, nothing needs to be posted where it's obvious who it was addressed towards, and state the facts of the case as you see them and as you need them to be.

Mark gets to be my TO anytime.

Kudos.

Ookami Koan


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From ori at ozemail.com.au  Wed Dec  1 15:51:47 2004
From: ori at ozemail.com.au (ori at ozemail.com.au)
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 07:51:47 +1100
Subject: [L5R-CCG] Dawn ordering update?
In-Reply-To: <20041201170245.YMIK28194.smta10.mail.ozemail.net@host.alderac.com>
Message-ID: <41AEC993.14623.1BC61E@localhost>

G`day
It`s the 1st of Dec.-Dawn of the Empire should now be available for ordering
by the general public,but the info on the L5R website hasn`t been 
updated as promised...
Ori


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From mklein at printtime.com  Wed Dec  1 15:53:48 2004
From: mklein at printtime.com (Mark Klein)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 14:53:48 -0600
Subject: [L5R-CCG] Problems with a Player at my tournament
In-Reply-To: <0FDD303F.73D801F4.000547D6@aol.com>
References: <0FDD303F.73D801F4.000547D6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a0610050cbdd3dfbed77c@[192.168.1.27]>

>  >I'd just take him aside at the beginning of your next tournament and
>>tell him this is how its going to be, I want you to play and have
>>fun, but my final answer is THE final answer and there will be NO
>>argument. be nice, but tell him if he can't abide those rules then
>>maybe he should reevaluate if he wants to play in your
>>tournaments......Don't be the bad guy, just make him decide.
>>--
>>Mark Klein
>
>Of the suggestions I've seen, this is the *least* antagonistic. 
>It's brilliant.  Take the player aside where the player doesn't lose 
>face in front of anyone, nothing needs to be posted where it's 
>obvious who it was addressed towards, and state the facts of the 
>case as you see them and as you need them to be.
>
>Mark gets to be my TO anytime.
>
>Kudos.
>
>Ookami Koan
>
I try....Just wish I had the time to TO.......
I barely have the time to play anymore.
-- 
Mark Klein
Graphic Designer
Print Time E.P.P.

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From tanon.denis at numericable.fr  Wed Dec  1 16:57:34 2004
From: tanon.denis at numericable.fr (TANON DENIS)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 22:57:34 +0100
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES]Agasha Tomioko and Bishamon's furry.
Message-ID: <001b01c4d7f0$c63d5e50$80fbd852@bart>

First the text of the cards : 

Agasha Tomioko
Phoenix Clan Water Shugenja. Fifth Legion Commander Reaction: Once per turn, after Tomioko attaches a Spell as a Limited, Open, or Battle action, take an additional action of the same type. 

Bishamon's Fury (U) Coste: 10; Focus: 3. You may bring this card into play from your hand as a Battle action. If you do, you may gain an additional Battle action to use the following ability. Ritual Battle: Bow and destroy a number of Shugenja Personalities you control, including this one, equal to the number of targets: Target any number of opposing units. Destroy them.


Now the question : If I attach to Tomioko Bishamon's Fury during battle, by card's texte I win an action to cast the spell, but can I also win an action using Tomioko's reaction ? ie : must I cast the spell immediatly after attaching it, therefore destroying Tomioko (so the answer would be no), or do I have the time to use tomioko's reaction ?
-------------- next part --------------
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From tanon.denis at numericable.fr  Wed Dec  1 17:02:12 2004
From: tanon.denis at numericable.fr (TANON DENIS)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 23:02:12 +0100
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULE]Savagery of the Moto
Message-ID: <002401c4d7f1$6b80a660$80fbd852@bart>

The card : 

Savagery of Moto : 
Battle: If you are a Unicorn Clan player, target a Personality you do not control in the current battle and a Personality with the same controller at a different location. Switch their locations. 
Battle: Target a Region you control and a Region attached to the current Province. Move them to each others' Provinces until the battle ends. 


And the question : 

What Happens to the regions if one of the province is detroyed during the resolution step of the battle ?

Yoritomo Kalim?ro
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From rmcchesney at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  1 17:01:43 2004
From: rmcchesney at hotmail.com (Robert McChesney)
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 22:01:43 +0000
Subject: [L5R-CCG] web of lie
Message-ID: <BAY16-F43A22DD87062171C5160CDCBF0@phx.gbl>

I wanted to know the reaction of house of the spring chrysanthemum, can that 
cancel any action targeting? Meaning in the action phase or the battle 
phase?

House of the Spring Chrysanthemum
Bow this card: produce 2 gold
Reaction: After an action targets a ninja, bow a scorpion clan samurai you 
control:
Once per turn, cancel the action


And on the side. Show of Good Faith .. The personality that i take control 
of, can i use him to defend in a battle since he is not attacking? And if 
its 2 scorpion clan players , for example, can i take control of my oponents 
scorpion champion?

_________________________________________________________________
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From jalexander at alderac.com  Wed Dec  1 17:40:45 2004
From: jalexander at alderac.com (Jeff Alexander)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 14:40:45 -0800
Subject: [L5R-CCG] Web of Lies rulesheet additions,
	including the Duelist trait
Message-ID: <a06002009bdd3bef7d5c8@[192.168.1.49]>

Credits:

Justin Walsh was incorrectly named as a member of the Design Team for 
Web of Lies.  Credit should go instead to Mark Wootton.  A thousand 
apologies, Mark.


Glossary:

conditional [errata, p. 98]: An effect is conditional if, at the time 
the action, Event, or trait producing that effect begins resolving, 
it has not yet been determined whether the effect will occur.


Duelist:

There have been many changes to the fundamental mechanics of dueling 
over the past month of development that have kept us from giving a 
definitive function to the Duelist trait until now.  Dueling, and the 
Duelist trait, will work differently in Lotus Edition.  This interim 
rule is a simple addition to the game that will still give the trait 
sufficient functionality to make Duelist Personalities more worth 
playing:

After the first time each duel a Personality with this trait focuses, 
his controller may draw two cards.


-- 
Jeff Alexander
Lead Designer, L5R CCG
Alderac Entertainment Group

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From duchon.philippe at free.fr  Wed Dec  1 14:35:43 2004
From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 20:35:43 +0100
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] "effect" and "end this effect"
Message-ID: <20041201203543.45cb35dd.duchon.philippe@free.fr>

Are two different uses of the same ability, different "effects"?

I am asking because of this card:

Yoritomo Matsoru

   Raid Battle: Bow Matsoru: If Matsoru is attacking the current
   Province during a Raid Battle, target one of the Defender's
   Provinces. For the rest of the game, cards in that Province may not
   be discarded or enter play, and the Defender may pay 3 Gold as a
   Limited action to end this effect at the end of that turn.

If the same Matsoru is used several times on the same Province, or if
more than one Matsoru is used on the same Provinces, does the Defender
have to pay 3 Gold several times before they can get use of their
Province again?

(Matsoru and Tsuruchi Armband can be an ugly combo)

-- 

  Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr
  Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek

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From duchon.philippe at free.fr  Wed Dec  1 14:51:57 2004
From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 20:51:57 +0100
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] [Web] Tomioko/Bishamon's Fury
Message-ID: <20041201205157.28b1c020.duchon.philippe@free.fr>

Another WoL question...

What happens if Agasha Tomioko 

  (Reaction: Once per turn, after Tomioko attaches a Spell as a
   Limited, Open, or Battle action, take an additional action of the same
   type.)

plays Bishamon's Fury 

   (You may bring this card into play from your hand as a Battle
   action. If you do, you may gain an additional Battle action to use
   the following ability. Ritual Battle: Bow and destroy a number of
   Shugenja Personalities you control, including this one, equal to the
   number of targets: Target any number of opposing units. Destroy
   them.)

during a Battle?

I see Bishamon's Fury's effect as an Entering-play effect, so that it
would take effect first, and that would mean Tomioko was dead before
she got time to take her Reaction. But maybe it's possible to play the
Reaction (gaining an action) before resolving the Bishamon effect?


-- 

  Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr
  Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek

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From jkkotz at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  1 18:19:23 2004
From: jkkotz at yahoo.com (James Kotz)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:19:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] Rule of Obvious Legality/Cardinal Rule -Jeff
In-Reply-To: <a06002002bdd25851972a@[192.168.1.46]>
Message-ID: <20041201231923.19680.qmail@web53103.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jeff Alexander <jalexander at alderac.com> wrote:
> >I know I'm being a pain on this and I know that
> real
> >estate on the cards is often scarce, but I believe
> >that avoiding situations like this is an
> achieveable goal.
> 
> It is achievable.  However, it requires nearly
> doubling the amount of 
> text on many cards with clauses that will cause
> confusion through 
> sheer verbosity and by almost never mattering.  This
> solution is 
> worse than the problem.
> 
> -- 
> Jeff Alexander
> Lead Designer, L5R CCG
> Alderac Entertainment Group

Do not look at the man behind the curtain!!!  He is no
one, and most certainly not the All-powerful Wizard of
Oz!!!  Nothing to see back there!!!

1) Talk is cheap.  Show us this supposedly huge
wording that would *have* to be used to avoid the
RoOL.  Or ask the players who don't like the wordings
to rewrite the cards.  It will either prove to them
that you are right, or get better cards, a win-win
situation for you.  The way it is now is a variant of
the oh-so-loved "Jeff said so" rulings.

2) (And this one applies to some other cards as well
<cough> Overwhelmed <cough>.)  If you can't word an
idea clearly and legally, don't make the card.  No one
card makes or breaks L5R.


	
		
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From duchon.philippe at free.fr  Wed Dec  1 14:26:27 2004
From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 20:26:27 +0100
Subject: [L5R-CCG] And lo, there came a herald...
In-Reply-To: <41ADC4E8.6020909@mindspring.com>
References: <41ADC4E8.6020909@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20041201202627.665d766e.duchon.philippe@free.fr>

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 08:19:36 -0500
Vaughn Derderian <jst1vaughn at mindspring.com> wrote:

> 
> Many are the voices I have heard, crying out for a leader, one who could
> 
> give guidance on the proper way for L5R players to behave in 
> tournaments, one who could teach the people of the world of right and 
> wrong, one who knows the value of foily cards.
> 
> L5R players of the world, your savior is here.  I implore all of you, 
> take heed to the wisdom of...Bayushi Rick.
> 
> ***
> 
> Originally found at:
> 
> http://www.tsuruchi.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9046&start=56
> 
> <Translated from the Kobune Port>
> 
> Greetings.
> 
> I play with a LOT of foils in my deck, a lot.
> 
> I shuffle my deck adequately. If you don't think I do, you can ask me to
> 
> shuffle it. Most likely I will say no, because I play with a lot of 
> foils. IF YOU TRY TO TOUCH MY <gosh darn> DECK WITHOUT ASKING/AFTER I 
> TELL YOU NOT TO I WILL DONKEY PUNCH YOU.

What's the point of this? It's obviously against the Code of Bushido,
and while said Code has lots of problems, this is not one of
them. Your opponent gets to shuffle your deck, and that's the best way
to do it (expecting a judge to be available to shuffle your deck
instead of your opponent is completely selfish, as there will never be
enough judges for that; declaring that you're the only one allowed to
shuffle your own deck is inviting suspicions of cheating, and cannot
be tolerated).

Of course, threatening violence only makes it worse.



-- 

  Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr
  Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek

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From jkkotz at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  1 18:25:53 2004
From: jkkotz at yahoo.com (James Kotz)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:25:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] Rule of Obvious Legality/Cardinal Rule -Jeff
In-Reply-To: <20041130200326.52251.qmail@web41805.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041201232553.61607.qmail@web53106.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Robert Van Natter <cloak72 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Cite a single instance where you can have an
> honourably dead personality in play, and I will give
> it to you.  Until then, it's just sophistry.

So bad rules should be left alone until the exploit
comes out, and then Jeff & co gets to issue errata to
fix it?  Do you wait to run out of gas before you go
to the station to fill you gas tank up?  No, you deal
with potential problems when they are discovered, not
when they actually occur.


		
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From jkkotz at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  1 18:33:34 2004
From: jkkotz at yahoo.com (James Kotz)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:33:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Shinjo Suboto
In-Reply-To: <112920041115.23816.41AB04BE0002CE0D00005D082200750330CE0702019D0E9F03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20041201233335.50023.qmail@web53109.mail.yahoo.com>

--- mparoni1 at comcast.net wrote:
> Shinjo Suboto: "Pay Suboto's Gold cost if you are
> not the Defender: If Suboto is face-up in one of
> your Provinces and will be opposed, bring him into
> play in the current battle." 
> Does this technically count as "moving" him into the
> battle?
> Micah

Nope. He just appears there.  Cards that are "moving"
should specifically use some variant of "move" as of
Lotus legality (WoL and DotE for now).


		
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From duchon.philippe at free.fr  Wed Dec  1 14:35:43 2004
From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 20:35:43 +0100
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] "effect" and "end this effect"
Message-ID: <20041201203543.45cb35dd.duchon.philippe@free.fr>

Are two different uses of the same ability, different "effects"?

I am asking because of this card:

Yoritomo Matsoru

   Raid Battle: Bow Matsoru: If Matsoru is attacking the current
   Province during a Raid Battle, target one of the Defender's
   Provinces. For the rest of the game, cards in that Province may not
   be discarded or enter play, and the Defender may pay 3 Gold as a
   Limited action to end this effect at the end of that turn.

If the same Matsoru is used several times on the same Province, or if
more than one Matsoru is used on the same Provinces, does the Defender
have to pay 3 Gold several times before they can get use of their
Province again?

(Matsoru and Tsuruchi Armband can be an ugly combo)

-- 

  Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr
  Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek

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From jkkotz at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  1 18:40:23 2004
From: jkkotz at yahoo.com (James Kotz)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:40:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES]The Last Prophecy
In-Reply-To: <BAY102-F35C09A1C3A2FC9E0E6A268AABF0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20041201234023.63795.qmail@web53101.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Matt Skordia <mattskordia at hotmail.com> wrote:
> The Last Prophecy -- Event:
> 
> "Name a card.  Search your Fate deck for that card. 
> Show it.  Put it in 
> your hand.  Discard a number of cards equal to it's
> Focus value, or all of 
> them if there are not enough."
> 
> 1) When Last Prophecy resolves, may I name a card
> that is not in my deck??

It reads "Name a card." not "Name a card in your
deck." or even "Name a fate card.".  The cards are not
trying to fool you.  Have a day.  

> 2) If I don't find the card that I named, do I still
> have to discard a 
> number of cards equal to the focus value of the
> named card??

Discard a number of cards equal to an unknown value? 
I hope not.  If find = no, then discard = no.


		
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From duchon.philippe at free.fr  Wed Dec  1 14:14:25 2004
From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 20:14:25 +0100
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES]
In-Reply-To: <001601c4d718$74813bf0$9a2e05d5@user5hkca89uul>
References: <20041130160059.53252.qmail@web41823.mail.yahoo.com>
	<001601c4d718$74813bf0$9a2e05d5@user5hkca89uul>
Message-ID: <20041201201425.75d8585d.duchon.philippe@free.fr>

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 22:09:04 +0200
"sarandis vrettakos" <s_vrettakos at acn.gr> wrote:

> Actually it does.Think about it:
> 
> Both destructions DO happen at the same time.Therefore,the
> active player decides which happens first,reactions are played in 
> response to that first destruction and then the second one occurs.
> Ergo,feign death is bust.

This must be the single most often badly quoted rule.

When two things happen simultaneously, the active player decides which
happens first ONLY if there is a conflict - such as a single card
going to two different places at once, or the same stat being set to
two different values. If they are compatible, then the active player
has no choice to make.

If two different effects kill a Personality at the same time, the
Personality dies. There is no choice, and it's simultaneous.


-- 

  Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr
  Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek

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From cloak72 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  1 19:29:23 2004
From: cloak72 at yahoo.com (Robert Van Natter)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 16:29:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] Rule of Obvious Legality/Cardinal Rule -Jeff
In-Reply-To: <20041201232553.61607.qmail@web53106.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041202002923.17864.qmail@web41823.mail.yahoo.com>

The flipside of the coin, James, is that one doesn't
need to go borrowing trouble.  Which is IMHO what a
number of people here are doing with railling against
rules and mechanics that have worked fine since the
games inception.

--- James Kotz <jkkotz at yahoo.com> wrote:

> --- Robert Van Natter <cloak72 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Cite a single instance where you can have an
> > honourably dead personality in play, and I will
> give
> > it to you.  Until then, it's just sophistry.
> 
> So bad rules should be left alone until the exploit
> comes out, and then Jeff & co gets to issue errata
> to
> fix it?  Do you wait to run out of gas before you go
> to the station to fill you gas tank up?  No, you
> deal
> with potential problems when they are discovered,
> not
> when they actually occur.
> 
> 
> 		
> __________________________________ 
> Do you Yahoo!? 
> Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! 
> http://my.yahoo.com 
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> L5r-ccg mailing list
> L5r-ccg at alderac.com
>
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> 


=====
Hiruma Ayslyn
Crab Clan Professional Medler  Scout  Samurai  Hero


"We are all just Samurai brother, but when we stand together, we are the Crab"

"Pain shared is pain divided; joy shared is joy multiplied"
Everything I needed to know, I learned from drinking at Callahan's


	
		
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From thepeevenator at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  1 19:30:38 2004
From: thepeevenator at hotmail.com (Nathan Peever)
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 00:30:38 +0000
Subject: [L5R-CCG] Web of Lies rulesheet additions,
	including the Duelist trait
In-Reply-To: <a06002009bdd3bef7d5c8@[192.168.1.49]>
Message-ID: <BAY1-F402440632F09F82A2146FFB3B00@phx.gbl>

Is the effect for the Duelist trait going to be in effect for SoCal Gencon, 
or will it be put into effect when Web of Lies becomes tournament legal?

>From: Jeff Alexander <jalexander at alderac.com>
>Reply-To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com
>To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com
>Subject: [L5R-CCG] Web of Lies rulesheet additions,including the Duelist 
>trait
>Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 14:40:45 -0800
>
>Credits:
>
>Justin Walsh was incorrectly named as a member of the Design Team for Web 
>of Lies.  Credit should go instead to Mark Wootton.  A thousand apologies, 
>Mark.
>
>
>Glossary:
>
>conditional [errata, p. 98]: An effect is conditional if, at the time the 
>action, Event, or trait producing that effect begins resolving, it has not 
>yet been determined whether the effect will occur.
>
>
>Duelist:
>
>There have been many changes to the fundamental mechanics of dueling over 
>the past month of development that have kept us from giving a definitive 
>function to the Duelist trait until now.  Dueling, and the Duelist trait, 
>will work differently in Lotus Edition.  This interim rule is a simple 
>addition to the game that will still give the trait sufficient 
>functionality to make Duelist Personalities more worth playing:
>
>After the first time each duel a Personality with this trait focuses, his 
>controller may draw two cards.
>
>
>--
>Jeff Alexander
>Lead Designer, L5R CCG
>Alderac Entertainment Group
>
>_______________________________________________
>L5r-ccg mailing list
>L5r-ccg at alderac.com
>http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com



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From zfaulkes at sbcglobal.net  Wed Dec  1 19:49:39 2004
From: zfaulkes at sbcglobal.net (Zen Faulkes)
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 18:49:39 -0600
Subject: [L5R-CCG] A plea
Message-ID: <41AE66A3.7050401@sbcglobal.net>

Greetings,

From: Simon Gill <yoritomo.somori at yobanjin.org>
Subject: [L5R-CCG] A plea

> Would it be possible to have the definition and clarification of 
> unopposed added to the accumulated rulings.

    Of course it's possible. I'm not convinced it's necessary. I 
generally avoid putting entries into the Archive that say, "This word 
means the same in the game as it does in regular English."

Zen Faulkes! * Crab Clan Scholar * Unaligned Rules Archivist

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From neil_g_phillips at yahoo.com.au  Wed Dec  1 19:52:29 2004
From: neil_g_phillips at yahoo.com.au (NEil Phillips)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 11:52:29 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [L5R-CCG] And lo, there came a herald...
In-Reply-To: <41ADC4E8.6020909@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20041202005229.7848.qmail@web52305.mail.yahoo.com>

Just worth mentioning that anyone who hadn't read the
entire KP thread (EG me) may not realise that this
post was sarcastic and therefore some people (EG me)
would assume you to be an ass.

I allmost embarrassed myself with a "How stupid is
this" post after reading the page you linked to but
before reading the whole thread.


 --- Vaughn Derderian <jst1vaughn at mindspring.com>
wrote: 
> 
> Many are the voices I have heard, crying out for a
> leader, one who could 
> give guidance on the proper way for L5R players to
> behave in 
> tournaments, one who could teach the people of the
> world of right and 
> wrong, one who knows the value of foily cards.
> 
> L5R players of the world, your savior is here.  I
> implore all of you, 
> take heed to the wisdom of...Bayushi Rick.
> 
> ***
> 
<snipped bullshit>

> 
> ***
> 
> I would speak more in praise of glorious Bayushi
> Rick, but I have miles 
> to go before I sleep, and the weight of my burden is
> heavy.  For the 
> first in what I hope to be a series of musings on
> the wisdom of Bayushi 
> Rick, please journey to:
> 
>
http://www.tsuruchi.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9046&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=82
> 
> Blessed be, and may all your decks have a LOT (a
> lot) of foils.
> 
> -- 
> Vaughn
> 
>      * Herald of Bayushi Rick
>      * The Random Ninja
> 
> _______________________________________________
> L5r-ccg mailing list
> L5r-ccg at alderac.com
>
http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com
>  

=====
NEil Phillips (neil_g_phillips at yahoo.com.au)
"Reality be Damned, Innocent Lives are at Stake!"
The opinions expressed above are not my own,
but rather are those of Microsoft Corporation.

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From Kirbdog53 at aol.com  Wed Dec  1 20:26:21 2004
From: Kirbdog53 at aol.com (Kirbdog53 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 20:26:21 EST
Subject: [L5R-CCG] And lo, there came a herald...
Message-ID: <96.1b79114c.2edfc93d@aol.com>

Yeah, because L5R is just the type of game in which we want players to  
threaten to "donkey punch" other players.  

Moto  Gahrie

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From jalexander at alderac.com  Wed Dec  1 20:51:41 2004
From: jalexander at alderac.com (Jeff Alexander)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 17:51:41 -0800
Subject: [L5R-CCG] Web of Lies rulesheet additions, 	including the
	Duelist trait
In-Reply-To: <BAY1-F402440632F09F82A2146FFB3B00@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY1-F402440632F09F82A2146FFB3B00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <a06002003bdd41a635078@[192.168.1.49]>

>Is the effect for the Duelist trait going to be in effect for SoCal 
>Gencon, or will it be put into effect when Web of Lies becomes 
>tournament legal?


We recommend that Tournament Organizers not adopt the interim rule 
until Web of Lies becomes legal.  It will NOT be in effect for GenCon 
SoCal.

-- 
Jeff Alexander
Lead Designer, L5R CCG
Alderac Entertainment Group

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From jalexander at alderac.com  Wed Dec  1 21:09:36 2004
From: jalexander at alderac.com (Jeff Alexander)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 18:09:36 -0800
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] Rule of Obvious Legality/Cardinal Rule -Jeff
In-Reply-To: <20041201232553.61607.qmail@web53106.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041201232553.61607.qmail@web53106.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a06002004bdd4264c1cbf@[192.168.1.49]>

>--- Robert Van Natter <cloak72 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>  Cite a single instance where you can have an
>>  honourably dead personality in play, and I will give
>>  it to you.  Until then, it's just sophistry.
>
>So bad rules should be left alone until the exploit
>comes out, and then Jeff & co gets to issue errata to
>fix it?  Do you wait to run out of gas before you go
>to the station to fill you gas tank up?  No, you deal
>with potential problems when they are discovered, not
>when they actually occur.

Part of the definition of "dead" includes being in a discard pile. 
Thus, an instruction to "Target a dead Personality" is an explicit 
instruction to target a card that is not in play.  It is unmistakably 
a case of a card overriding the rule that restricts targeting choices 
to cards that are in play only.

There are certain things we are never going to allow, such as having 
more than two Personalities in a duel or overriding definitions such 
as "Infantry" and "dead".  There is no reason to reword every card 
that says "Target a dead Personality" to say "Target a dead 
Personality, even if he is not in play" instead as a precaution 
against the day it becomes possible for cards to be both in play and 
dead at the same time.  Demanding that cards be worded so robustly 
that their function does not change even if fundamental definitions 
in the game change around them goes beyond the point of diminished 
returns on accuracy versus readability.

-- 
Jeff Alexander
Lead Designer, L5R CCG
Alderac Entertainment Group

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From jalexander at alderac.com  Wed Dec  1 21:44:20 2004
From: jalexander at alderac.com (Jeff Alexander)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 18:44:20 -0800
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] Rule of Obvious Legality/Cardinal Rule -Jeff
In-Reply-To: <20041201231923.19680.qmail@web53103.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041201231923.19680.qmail@web53103.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a06002005bdd42a07fd3c@[192.168.1.49]>

>1) Talk is cheap.  Show us this supposedly huge
>wording that would *have* to be used to avoid the
>RoOL.

Political Reaction: After another player?s action destroys Kurako: If 
Kurako is in your discard pile, even if Kurako is not in play, that 
player loses 5 Honor.

>   Or ask the players who don't like the wordings
>to rewrite the cards.

This would open us up to potential intellectual property theft 
lawsuits unless done in a fashion that would add unaffordable extra 
time to the development process.

>2) (And this one applies to some other cards as well
><cough> Overwhelmed <cough>.)

Overwhelmed was poorly worded.  It got a lot better in Diamond.

>   If you can't word an
>idea clearly and legally, don't make the card.  No one
>card makes or breaks L5R.

It would hurt L5R if it took an inordinate amount of text to create 
any card that targeted or affected cards in discard piles, decks, 
Provinces, or hands; or any card that targeted or affected discard 
piles, decks, Provinces, hands, Family Honor scores, players...

I mean, carrying the current argument to its logical conclusion, any 
card that says "Target a player" cannot be played.  After all, it 
only *implicitly* breaks the rule that all actions must target a card 
in play.  It does not explicitly do so.  Therefore, all such cards 
need to be worded "Target a player, even if he is not a card in play" 
in order to work properly.  After all, we *may* someday make a card 
that says "All players are considered cards in play until the turn 
ends.", and this would break the clearly flimsy hand-waving rule that 
is the only thing making these cards work now.

-- 
Jeff Alexander
Lead Designer, L5R CCG
Alderac Entertainment Group

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From Luftmorder at aol.com  Wed Dec  1 22:08:01 2004
From: Luftmorder at aol.com (Luftmorder at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 22:08:01 EST
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] Rule of Obvious Legality/Cardinal Rule -Jeff
Message-ID: <8e.1b75e8a7.2edfe111@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/1/2004 6:49:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
jalexander at alderac.com writes:
"All players are considered cards in play until the turn 
ends.", 
If you do this, would this mean that if a player does something twice, like 
scratch his or her nose you could hit them with The Same Old Tricks to make 
that player not do that any more?

*Grin*
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From Whitecat31 at aol.com  Wed Dec  1 22:08:46 2004
From: Whitecat31 at aol.com (Whitecat31 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 22:08:46 EST
Subject: [L5R-CCG] And Lo a Herald of Stupidity.
Message-ID: <81.1c089b75.2edfe13e@aol.com>

(Five private emails asking me to respond to this and the Kobune port forum)  
ARGGHH.. I really wanted this issue to die.


Sad to say the port forum post and the far below link was aimed partially at 
me. I (and I am sure others) would prefer people did not use this list, to 
goad people over an issue from over two years ago.
Personally, I thought people would give this 2 year old issue a rest, 
especially since the new Rules of Bushido cover it.  As one of my friends said.  
"Some people grow, and some people don't."  Anyway, this is how I deal with this 
issue now.  I would also recommend this to people like Bayushi Rick and other 
sensitive about cards.  Pile shuffle.  Many little stacks. I prefer stacks of 
ten.  It is very quick and very fast.
Cards are peoples, property.  It is polite to respect other peoples property. 
I do not practice the riffle shuffle. The riffle shuffle destroys cards and 
card sleeves over time.  It is basically impolite and rude. Also there is a 
consensus among many that merge shuffling can even do more damage to cards than 
riffle shuffling.  
The code of Bushido says pile shuffling is fine for randomization.
I practice the pile shuffle. Anybody at any legal time can pile shuffle my 
cards.  I don't mind at all.  You can stack my cards into 40 one card pile 
stacks for all I care.  Just please be polite about it.  Pile shuffling is almost 
as fast as the riffle shuffle.
This game is about having fun, and playing with honor.  If somebody gets 
pleasure and enjoyment out of damaging peoples cards or intimidating them, or if 
they get pleasure out of the fact that they did so, I would kindly suggest, 
they find another game to play.  In my opinion they are not good for the 
continuance of the game and are participating in bad sportsmanship.

Now this is from the CODE of BUSHIDO.  
http://www.l5r.alderac.com/ccg/l5r_code_of_bushido.pdf
----------------------------
Shuffling
After any time a player's deck is shuffled, the opponent may shuffle it 
further before play resumes. This further shuffle may be used to rearrange the 
cards in any order provided it is done without seeing the card faces. If the 
player desires, he or she can request that a judge or tournament official perform 
the shuffle instead of the opponent.
The player may not rearrange the deck in any way between this further shuffle 
and resuming the game. Players must shuffle their opponent's deck in such a 
manner that the cards and sleeves do not become damaged.

If you are not proficient in riffle shuffling please do NOT attempt to riffle 
shuffle your opponent's deck. Pile shuffling works fine for randomization.
------------------------------
There you have it folks. If somebody riffle shuffle's your deck and they 
don't do it well and with proficiency, they have violated the Code of Bushido 
rules.  It is up to you to have them DISQUALIFIED.  If somebody merges your cards 
and looks down at your cards and sees a card face while merging, it is up to 
you to have them DISQUALIFIED.
>From my standpoint I would rather see a person get DQ'd over a card game, 
then see them get Donkey punched over a card game.

P. S  See you guys at Gencon...I am hoping for maybe a 4-4 record and a fun 
time.. :)

David Starr
Whitecat31 GAB Vice-Admiral in the Golden Koku Team


In a message dated 12/1/2004 5:25:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
jst1vaughn at mindspring.com writes:

> Many are the voices I have heard, crying out for a leader, one who could 
> give guidance on the proper way for L5R players to behave in 
> tournaments, one who could teach the people of the world of right and 
> wrong, one who knows the value of foily cards.
> 
> L5R players of the world, your savior is here.  I implore all of you, 
> take heed to the wisdom of...Bayushi Rick.
> 
> ***
> 
> Originally found at:
> 
> http://www.tsuruchi.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9046&start=56
> 
> <Translated from the Kobune Port>
> 
> Greetings.
> 
> I play with a LOT of foils in my deck, a lot.
> 
> I shuffle my deck adequately. If you don't think I do, you can ask me to 
> shuffle it. Most likely I will say no, because I play with a lot of 
> foils. IF YOU TRY TO TOUCH MY <gosh darn> DECK WITHOUT ASKING/AFTER I 
> TELL YOU NOT TO I WILL DONKEY PUNCH YOU.
> 
> If you require my deck to be shuffled further, or are not satisfied with 
> you only being allowed to cut my deck, get a judge, and prepare for me 
> to be a rules lawyering <person>.
> 
> I don't tolerate <shenanigans>, and many a table has been 
> flipped/elbowdropped because of it.
> 
> ***
> 
> I would speak more in praise of glorious Bayushi Rick, but I have miles 
> to go before I sleep, and the weight of my burden is heavy.  For the 
> first in what I hope to be a series of musings on the wisdom of Bayushi 
> Rick, please journey to:
> 
> http://www.tsuruchi.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9046&postdays=0&postorder=asc&
> start=82
> 
> Blessed be, and may all your decks have a LOT (a lot) of foils.
> 
> -- 
> Vaughn

_______________________________________________
L5r-ccg mailing list
L5r-ccg at alderac.com
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From andrew.tate at mchsi.com  Wed Dec  1 22:46:08 2004
From: andrew.tate at mchsi.com (Shinjo Dun)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 21:46:08 -0600
Subject: [L5R-CCG] And Lo a Herald of Stupidity.
References: <81.1c089b75.2edfe13e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <024701c4d821$75b93950$f3d9cf0c@Cyclops>

Since this was the first person to specifically mention pile shuffling, why 
is it considered to be a legal form of "randomization".  If one knows how to 
pile shuffle well enough, then there is NO randomization and the deck keeps 
its original order.  If I had enough time I could find some specific 
examples from other games, but bottom line, pile shuffling = not 
randomization.

Shinjo Dun
Andy Tate
andrew.tate at mchsi.com
Team American Idol * Ruben
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Whitecat31 at aol.com>
To: <L5r-ccg at alderac.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 9:08 PM
Subject: [L5R-CCG] And Lo a Herald of Stupidity.


> (Five private emails asking me to respond to this and the Kobune port 
> forum)
> ARGGHH.. I really wanted this issue to die.
>
>
> Sad to say the port forum post and the far below link was aimed partially 
> at
> me. I (and I am sure others) would prefer people did not use this list, to
> goad people over an issue from over two years ago.
> Personally, I thought people would give this 2 year old issue a rest,
> especially since the new Rules of Bushido cover it.  As one of my friends 
> said.
> "Some people grow, and some people don't."  Anyway, this is how I deal 
> with this
> issue now.  I would also recommend this to people like Bayushi Rick and 
> other
> sensitive about cards.  Pile shuffle.  Many little stacks. I prefer stacks 
> of
> ten.  It is very quick and very fast.
> Cards are peoples, property.  It is polite to respect other peoples 
> property.
> I do not practice the riffle shuffle. The riffle shuffle destroys cards 
> and
> card sleeves over time.  It is basically impolite and rude. Also there is 
> a
> consensus among many that merge shuffling can even do more damage to cards 
> than
> riffle shuffling.
> The code of Bushido says pile shuffling is fine for randomization.
> I practice the pile shuffle. Anybody at any legal time can pile shuffle my
> cards.  I don't mind at all.  You can stack my cards into 40 one card pile
> stacks for all I care.  Just please be polite about it.  Pile shuffling is 
> almost
> as fast as the riffle shuffle.
> This game is about having fun, and playing with honor.  If somebody gets
> pleasure and enjoyment out of damaging peoples cards or intimidating them, 
> or if
> they get pleasure out of the fact that they did so, I would kindly 
> suggest,
> they find another game to play.  In my opinion they are not good for the
> continuance of the game and are participating in bad sportsmanship.
>
> Now this is from the CODE of BUSHIDO.
> http://www.l5r.alderac.com/ccg/l5r_code_of_bushido.pdf
> ----------------------------
> Shuffling
> After any time a player's deck is shuffled, the opponent may shuffle it
> further before play resumes. This further shuffle may be used to rearrange 
> the
> cards in any order provided it is done without seeing the card faces. If 
> the
> player desires, he or she can request that a judge or tournament official 
> perform
> the shuffle instead of the opponent.
> The player may not rearrange the deck in any way between this further 
> shuffle
> and resuming the game. Players must shuffle their opponent's deck in such 
> a
> manner that the cards and sleeves do not become damaged.
>
> If you are not proficient in riffle shuffling please do NOT attempt to 
> riffle
> shuffle your opponent's deck. Pile shuffling works fine for randomization.
> ------------------------------
> There you have it folks. If somebody riffle shuffle's your deck and they
> don't do it well and with proficiency, they have violated the Code of 
> Bushido
> rules.  It is up to you to have them DISQUALIFIED.  If somebody merges 
> your cards
> and looks down at your cards and sees a card face while merging, it is up 
> to
> you to have them DISQUALIFIED.
>>From my standpoint I would rather see a person get DQ'd over a card game,
> then see them get Donkey punched over a card game.
>
> P. S  See you guys at Gencon...I am hoping for maybe a 4-4 record and a 
> fun
> time.. :)
>
> David Starr
> Whitecat31 GAB Vice-Admiral in the Golden Koku Team
>
>
> In a message dated 12/1/2004 5:25:24 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> jst1vaughn at mindspring.com writes:
>
>> Many are the voices I have heard, crying out for a leader, one who could
>> give guidance on the proper way for L5R players to behave in
>> tournaments, one who could teach the people of the world of right and
>> wrong, one who knows the value of foily cards.
>>
>> L5R players of the world, your savior is here.  I implore all of you,
>> take heed to the wisdom of...Bayushi Rick.
>>
>> ***
>>
>> Originally found at:
>>
>> http://www.tsuruchi.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9046&start=56
>>
>> <Translated from the Kobune Port>
>>
>> Greetings.
>>
>> I play with a LOT of foils in my deck, a lot.
>>
>> I shuffle my deck adequately. If you don't think I do, you can ask me to
>> shuffle it. Most likely I will say no, because I play with a lot of
>> foils. IF YOU TRY TO TOUCH MY <gosh darn> DECK WITHOUT ASKING/AFTER I
>> TELL YOU NOT TO I WILL DONKEY PUNCH YOU.
>>
>> If you require my deck to be shuffled further, or are not satisfied with
>> you only being allowed to cut my deck, get a judge, and prepare for me
>> to be a rules lawyering <person>.
>>
>> I don't tolerate <shenanigans>, and many a table has been
>> flipped/elbowdropped because of it.
>>
>> ***
>>
>> I would speak more in praise of glorious Bayushi Rick, but I have miles
>> to go before I sleep, and the weight of my burden is heavy.  For the
>> first in what I hope to be a series of musings on the wisdom of Bayushi
>> Rick, please journey to:
>>
>> http://www.tsuruchi.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9046&postdays=0&postorder=asc&
>> start=82
>>
>> Blessed be, and may all your decks have a LOT (a lot) of foils.
>>
>> -- 
>> Vaughn
>
> _______________________________________________
> L5r-ccg mailing list
> L5r-ccg at alderac.com
> http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com 


_______________________________________________
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From neil_g_phillips at yahoo.com.au  Wed Dec  1 22:54:25 2004
From: neil_g_phillips at yahoo.com.au (NEil Phillips)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 14:54:25 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] Rule of Obvious Legality/Cardinal Rule -Jeff
In-Reply-To: <a06002004bdd4264c1cbf@[192.168.1.49]>
Message-ID: <20041202035425.40369.qmail@web52308.mail.yahoo.com>

 --- Jeff Alexander <jalexander at alderac.com> wrote: 
> There are certain things we are never going to
> allow, such as having 
> more than two Personalities in a duel (....)

Hahaha, Coward's Way.

The problem is, noone knows what definitions are on
the "Don't Touch" list..

=====
NEil Phillips (neil_g_phillips at yahoo.com.au)
"Reality be Damned, Innocent Lives are at Stake!"
The opinions expressed above are not my own,
but rather are those of Microsoft Corporation.

_______________________________________________
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From jalexander at alderac.com  Wed Dec  1 23:25:37 2004
From: jalexander at alderac.com (Jeff Alexander)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 20:25:37 -0800
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] Rule of Obvious Legality/Cardinal Rule -Jeff
In-Reply-To: <20041202035425.40369.qmail@web52308.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041202035425.40369.qmail@web52308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a06002008bdd44801082e@[192.168.1.49]>

>  --- Jeff Alexander <jalexander at alderac.com> wrote:
>>  There are certain things we are never going to
>>  allow, such as having
>>  more than two Personalities in a duel (....)
>
>Hahaha, Coward's Way.

Good point, but not quite!

"The second Personality only contributes a Chi bonus and shares the 
consequences of losing. He or she is not a participant in the duel 
nor entering a duel, so effects that apply to duel participants or 
are triggered when "entering a duel" cannot be used on him or her." 
[DW, 21 March 1997]

That ruling is ONLY seven and a half years old.
-- 
Jeff Alexander
Lead Designer, L5R CCG
Alderac Entertainment Group

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From neil_g_phillips at yahoo.com.au  Wed Dec  1 23:51:09 2004
From: neil_g_phillips at yahoo.com.au (NEil Phillips)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 15:51:09 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] Rule of Obvious Legality/Cardinal Rule -Jeff
In-Reply-To: <a06002008bdd44801082e@[192.168.1.49]>
Message-ID: <20041202045109.75155.qmail@web52305.mail.yahoo.com>

 --- Jeff Alexander <jalexander at alderac.com> wrote: 

> >Hahaha, Coward's Way.
> 
> Good point, but not quite!

(...)

> That ruling is ONLY seven and a half years old.

Actually I knew about the ruling, I was making a joke
:)

The card itself does say "Select an unbowed
Personality you control who joins the duel"

It's really just an artifact of old cards trying to
explain what the card is doing in story terms.. (And
didn't Shame still do that like, right up to Gold
Edition? stains the family honour? Haha, funny.)


So. In order to determine when a card is legal to
play, I must consider:

- What the templating on the card meant when the card
was printed
- All rulings and errata to the card
- What every other card in the history of the game is
capable of
- What the templating of every card in the history of
the game meant at the time it was printed
- All rulings and errata on every card in the history
of the game

Simple! 

OK, I am stretching here.


Anyhow, if Kurako's ability can be used while bowed,
can we now use Crane Tattoo's ability while bowed?
(and the old Crane Tattoo/Hurricane Tattoo/Iron
Mountain/Matsu Hataki XP trick will work?)

=====
NEil Phillips (neil_g_phillips at yahoo.com.au)
"Reality be Damned, Innocent Lives are at Stake!"
The opinions expressed above are not my own,
but rather are those of Microsoft Corporation.

_______________________________________________
L5r-ccg mailing list
L5r-ccg at alderac.com
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From patryn150 at sunflower.com  Thu Dec  2 00:17:29 2004
From: patryn150 at sunflower.com (Alex Hawman)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 23:17:29 -0600
Subject: [L5R-CCG] And Lo a Herald of Stupidity.
References: <81.1c089b75.2edfe13e@aol.com>
	<024701c4d821$75b93950$f3d9cf0c@Cyclops>
Message-ID: <001001c4d82e$3b649800$1701a8c0@yourmom>

Except the for the part that pile shuffling is an accepted form of shuffling
your OPPONENTS deck, you still have to shuffle yours proficiently.

Dead issue.

Beaten.

Into.

Ground.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shinjo Dun" <andrew.tate at mchsi.com>
To: <L5r-ccg at alderac.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] And Lo a Herald of Stupidity.


> Since this was the first person to specifically mention pile shuffling,
why
> is it considered to be a legal form of "randomization".  If one knows how
to
> pile shuffle well enough, then there is NO randomization and the deck
keeps
> its original order.  If I had enough time I could find some specific
> examples from other games, but bottom line, pile shuffling = not
> randomization.
>
> Shinjo Dun
> Andy Tate
> andrew.tate at mchsi.com
> Team American Idol * Ruben
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <Whitecat31 at aol.com>
> To: <L5r-ccg at alderac.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 9:08 PM
> Subject: [L5R-CCG] And Lo a Herald of Stupidity.
>
>
> > (Five private emails asking me to respond to this and the Kobune port
> > forum)
> > ARGGHH.. I really wanted this issue to die.
> >
> >
> > Sad to say the port forum post and the far below link was aimed
partially
> > at
> > me. I (and I am sure others) would prefer people did not use this list,
to
> > goad people over an issue from over two years ago.
> > Personally, I thought people would give this 2 year old issue a rest,
> > especially since the new Rules of Bushido cover it.  As one of my
friends
> > said.
> > "Some people grow, and some people don't."  Anyway, this is how I deal
> > with this
> > issue now.  I would also recommend this to people like Bayushi Rick and
> > other
> > sensitive about cards.  Pile shuffle.  Many little stacks. I prefer
stacks
> > of
> > ten.  It is very quick and very fast.
> > Cards are peoples, property.  It is polite to respect other peoples
> > property.
> > I do not practice the riffle shuffle. The riffle shuffle destroys cards
> > and
> > card sleeves over time.  It is basically impolite and rude. Also there
is
> > a
> > consensus among many that merge shuffling can even do more damage to
cards
> > than
> > riffle shuffling.
> > The code of Bushido says pile shuffling is fine for randomization.
> > I practice the pile shuffle. Anybody at any legal time can pile shuffle
my
> > cards.  I don't mind at all.  You can stack my cards into 40 one card
pile
> > stacks for all I care.  Just please be polite about it.  Pile shuffling
is
> > almost
> > as fast as the riffle shuffle.
> > This game is about having fun, and playing with honor.  If somebody gets
> > pleasure and enjoyment out of damaging peoples cards or intimidating
them,
> > or if
> > they get pleasure out of the fact that they did so, I would kindly
> > suggest,
> > they find another game to play.  In my opinion they are not good for the
> > continuance of the game and are participating in bad sportsmanship.
> >
> > Now this is from the CODE of BUSHIDO.
> > http://www.l5r.alderac.com/ccg/l5r_code_of_bushido.pdf
> > ----------------------------
> > Shuffling
> > After any time a player's deck is shuffled, the opponent may shuffle it
> > further before play resumes. This further shuffle may be used to
rearrange
> > the
> > cards in any order provided it is done without seeing the card faces. If
> > the
> > player desires, he or she can request that a judge or tournament
official
> > perform
> > the shuffle instead of the opponent.
> > The player may not rearrange the deck in any way between this further
> > shuffle
> > and resuming the game. Players must shuffle their opponent's deck in
such
> > a
> > manner that the cards and sleeves do not become damaged.
> >
> > If you are not proficient in riffle shuffling please do NOT attempt to
> > riffle
> > shuffle your opponent's deck. Pile shuffling works fine for
randomization.
> > ------------------------------
> > There you have it folks. If somebody riffle shuffle's your deck and they
> > don't do it well and with proficiency, they have violated the Code of
> > Bushido
> > rules.  It is up to you to have them DISQUALIFIED.  If somebody merges
> > your cards
> > and looks down at your cards and sees a card face while merging, it is
up
> > to
> > you to have them DISQUALIFIED.
> >>From my standpoint I would rather see a person get DQ'd over a card
game,
> > then see them get Donkey punched over a card game.
> >
> > P. S  See you guys at Gencon...I am hoping for maybe a 4-4 record and a
> > fun
> > time.. :)
> >
> > David Starr
> > Whitecat31 GAB Vice-Admiral in the Golden Koku Team
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 12/1/2004 5:25:24 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> > jst1vaughn at mindspring.com writes:
> >
> >> Many are the voices I have heard, crying out for a leader, one who
could
> >> give guidance on the proper way for L5R players to behave in
> >> tournaments, one who could teach the people of the world of right and
> >> wrong, one who knows the value of foily cards.
> >>
> >> L5R players of the world, your savior is here.  I implore all of you,
> >> take heed to the wisdom of...Bayushi Rick.
> >>
> >> ***
> >>
> >> Originally found at:
> >>
> >> http://www.tsuruchi.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9046&start=56
> >>
> >> <Translated from the Kobune Port>
> >>
> >> Greetings.
> >>
> >> I play with a LOT of foils in my deck, a lot.
> >>
> >> I shuffle my deck adequately. If you don't think I do, you can ask me
to
> >> shuffle it. Most likely I will say no, because I play with a lot of
> >> foils. IF YOU TRY TO TOUCH MY <gosh darn> DECK WITHOUT ASKING/AFTER I
> >> TELL YOU NOT TO I WILL DONKEY PUNCH YOU.
> >>
> >> If you require my deck to be shuffled further, or are not satisfied
with
> >> you only being allowed to cut my deck, get a judge, and prepare for me
> >> to be a rules lawyering <person>.
> >>
> >> I don't tolerate <shenanigans>, and many a table has been
> >> flipped/elbowdropped because of it.
> >>
> >> ***
> >>
> >> I would speak more in praise of glorious Bayushi Rick, but I have miles
> >> to go before I sleep, and the weight of my burden is heavy.  For the
> >> first in what I hope to be a series of musings on the wisdom of Bayushi
> >> Rick, please journey to:
> >>
> >>
http://www.tsuruchi.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9046&postdays=0&postorder=asc&
> >> start=82
> >>
> >> Blessed be, and may all your decks have a LOT (a lot) of foils.
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> Vaughn
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > L5r-ccg mailing list
> > L5r-ccg at alderac.com
> > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>


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From togashi.shin at free.fr  Thu Dec  2 00:55:03 2004
From: togashi.shin at free.fr (Togashi Imura)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 06:55:03 +0100
Subject: [L5R-CCG][Rules]Refilling Face up during the event phase
References: <81.1c089b75.2edfe13e@aol.com><024701c4d821$75b93950$f3d9cf0c@Cyclops>
	<001001c4d82e$3b649800$1701a8c0@yourmom>
Message-ID: <004001c4d833$77d4c120$468ae78a@imuradono>

Ok, basically, the question is... if I have a region that is revealed during
the event phase, and I use, say, the Shogun's Barracks to refill the
province face up. That's a long sentence, I cut it here :) . Well, then, the
card I reveal that way is an event, does it resolve at once ?

I'd say yes, but...

Same for regions ? (yes => enters play or discarded at once).

Togashi Imura



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From jst1vaughn at mindspring.com  Thu Dec  2 01:44:11 2004
From: jst1vaughn at mindspring.com (Vaughn Derderian)
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 01:44:11 -0500
Subject: [L5R-CCG] And Lo a Herald of Stupidity.
In-Reply-To: <81.1c089b75.2edfe13e@aol.com>
References: <81.1c089b75.2edfe13e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <41AEB9BB.7050606@mindspring.com>

Whitecat31 at aol.com wrote:

> (Five private emails asking me to respond to this and the Kobune port forum)  
> ARGGHH.. I really wanted this issue to die.
> 
> 
> Sad to say the port forum post and the far below link was aimed partially at 
> me. I (and I am sure others) would prefer people did not use this list, to 
> goad people over an issue from over two years ago.

Not really.  Even though I thought your post from back in the day was a 
little extreme (and it still is), you had a legitimate point.  Now, when 
I tell people I'm going to shuffle their deck, I ask them if they have a 
method that they'd prefer I use.  I don't really care about the alleged 
intimidation factor that comes from shuffling, I just want a truly 
random game.  So, I'll just say - leave David alone.  No one should get 
punished forever for one crazy post, even if it happened to get 
immortalized on the internet.

As for the glorious magnificence that is Bayushi Rick...speak not of 
him, lest your mind be blasted by his brilliance.  Speak ill of him, and 
lo! the donkey punches shall commence.  You have been warned.

-- 
Vaughn

     * Herald of Bayushi Rick
     * The Random Ninja

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From iosef at gothic.net.au  Thu Dec  2 02:15:57 2004
From: iosef at gothic.net.au (I)
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 18:15:57 +1100
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] Rule of Obvious Legality/Cardinal Rule -Jeff
In-Reply-To: <8e.1b75e8a7.2edfe111@aol.com>
References: <8e.1b75e8a7.2edfe111@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041202181431.01d4aec0@mail.gothic.net.au>

At 02:08 PM 2/12/2004, Luftmorder at aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 12/1/2004 6:49:15 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>jalexander at alderac.com writes:
>"All players are considered cards in play until the turn
>ends.",
>If you do this, would this mean that if a player does something twice, like
>scratch his or her nose you could hit them with The Same Old Tricks to make
>that player not do that any more?
>
>*Grin*
Even better, when you do something, if you don't like what they do in 
response, Fall on your knees it, because they are reacting........

Iestyn 


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From yoritomo.somori at yobanjin.org  Thu Dec  2 04:34:34 2004
From: yoritomo.somori at yobanjin.org (Simon Gill)
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 09:34:34 +0000
Subject: [L5R-CCG] A plea
In-Reply-To: <41AE66A3.7050401@sbcglobal.net>
References: <41AE66A3.7050401@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <41AEE1AA.5080606@yobanjin.org>

Zen Faulkes wrote:

>    Of course it's possible. I'm not convinced it's necessary. I 
> generally avoid putting entries into the Archive that say, "This word 
> means the same in the game as it does in regular English."

I'm more interested in the clarification really, I spent every game of 
the Web prerelease arguing that a personality at home is unopposed. 
Luckily the TO agreed with me, as I would not like to play Aramasu's 
Pride in an environment where the ruling was made that only people in 
battle are unopposed.

It just means that it's quick and simple to find, as opposed to finding 
the archived mail.

-- 
Mantis Emissary to the <a href="http://matrix.netsoc.tcd.ie/~matsu/phpBB2/index.php">Lower Courts</a>

I donated to <a href="http://tsuruchi.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8950&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=">Feed the Lost</a>


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From lordg at ono.com  Thu Dec  2 05:35:58 2004
From: lordg at ono.com (lordg at ono.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 11:35:58 +0100
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Uso sensei 
Message-ID: <41A7074E00003817@resmta03.ono.com>

Hola,
+Uso sensei vs Nizomi
I have uso sensei, my opponent reacts to my duels with asahina nizomi.
Does my test of might destroy the loser?
same for steel on steel?

+Uso sensei vs Daizu/feign death
Does my steel on steel destroy the loser two times, one per own text, another
one per uso sensei?

+Kakita vs smoke and mirrors
I have Kakita dueling another personality. If I react to my first focus/strike
opportunity with smoke (if legal) can I still focus with 1-3 cards in my
next opportunity or must I strike? 
Can I draw two cards when react with smoke&mirrors with a duelist instead
of focusing the first time? 

Thanks (sorry for my poor english)


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From sascha.meyer at sdirekt-net.de  Thu Dec  2 06:00:16 2004
From: sascha.meyer at sdirekt-net.de (Sascha Meyer)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 12:00:16 +0100
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [Rules][WEB][JEFF]Rules again
Message-ID: <002b01c4d85e$1bc27230$99433ed4@q>

Since Marty told me: " I'm
skipping over the other Web of Lies questions as well.
Please repost them addressed directly to Jeff, maybe
with [WEB] and [JEFF] in your Subject Line.", I post them again.
(And again since there was no response on this.)

4F Scorpion Personality gets a Shosuro Infiltrator via Few Against Many.
Recruiting Drive gets played. In battle I use Shosuro Infiltrator's battle action.
Can I now really attach him again for zero gold and repeat this stuff like a trillion times?

 
I have Paneki ex2 and his Egg in play.
May I now use two of my opponent's cards?
May I play his Traveling Ronin?
If so, are they discarded immediately because of the last sentence on Paneki?

 
Shattered Focus
Is its action effective against focus cards with effects that kick in "when revealed"?
(Kharmic Strike, False Trail, The Fortunes Smile, ...)


Morisue vs. Hand of Vengeance
If Morisue uses her ability, how many cards may the opponent bow if his HoV is in effect?
A: 1     B: # Personalities in his army

 
Akodo Mirotai + Rain of Death
Mirotai takes his action, looses his trait and goes to war.
Does he count for the requirement of Rain of Death since Tactician is still printed on him although he lost it?


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From dwinner at comcast.net  Thu Dec  2 10:54:18 2004
From: dwinner at comcast.net (David Winner)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 08:54:18 -0700
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Uso sensei 
References: <41A7074E00003817@resmta03.ono.com>
Message-ID: <000401c4d887$31871f20$6500a8c0@q>

I already asked the first question but did not have any reply.
However, this list had people already respond to my question, so you may
want to look at my last message and follow the results.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <lordg at ono.com>
To: <L5r-ccg at alderac.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 3:35 AM
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Uso sensei


Hola,
+Uso sensei vs Nizomi
I have uso sensei, my opponent reacts to my duels with asahina nizomi.
Does my test of might destroy the loser?
same for steel on steel?

+Uso sensei vs Daizu/feign death
Does my steel on steel destroy the loser two times, one per own text,
another
one per uso sensei?

+Kakita vs smoke and mirrors
I have Kakita dueling another personality. If I react to my first
focus/strike
opportunity with smoke (if legal) can I still focus with 1-3 cards in my
next opportunity or must I strike?
Can I draw two cards when react with smoke&mirrors with a duelist instead
of focusing the first time?

Thanks (sorry for my poor english)


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From nagaherald at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  2 11:13:27 2004
From: nagaherald at hotmail.com (Joe Reil)
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 11:13:27 -0500
Subject: [L5R-CCG] And Lo a Herald of Stupidity.
In-Reply-To: <024701c4d821$75b93950$f3d9cf0c@Cyclops>
Message-ID: <BAY2-F37B4B0A35326D67A6F89DDD0B00@phx.gbl>

>Since this was the first person to specifically mention pile shuffling, why 
>is it considered to be a legal form of "randomization".  If one knows how 
>to pile shuffle well enough, then there is NO randomization and the deck 
>keeps its original order.  If I had enough time I could find some specific 
>examples from other games, but bottom line, pile shuffling = not 
>randomization.

Knew this was going to come up.

First. Yes, it *is* possible to stack your deck doing a pile shuffle. 
However, that is so easy to counter by the opponent that anybody who falls 
for it deserves what they get.

If you do a pile shuffle properly, i.e., not having the deck pre-stacked, 
then it is just as good as any other method of shuffling, and in some 
people's minds better in some ways as it results in much less wear and tear 
on the cards and/or sleeves.

And technically, someone who knows what they're doing can stack any deck no 
matter what the method of shuffling, so this argument doesn't hold a whole 
lot of water.

Even if someone were to try to cheat using a pre-stacked deck and pile 
shuffling, it is extremely easy to counter. Just shuffle it yourself. David 
was not saying that he didn't want anybody shuffling his deck, just that he 
didn't want anybody riffling or merging it.

Or are you worried that if you pile shuffle your opponents deck that he'll 
still somehow magically be able to have it pre-stacked?

I mean seriously, is it that difficult a concept that you should respect 
other people's property? No reasonable person is arguing that you shouldn't 
have the right to shuffle an opponent's deck, just that you respect their 
wishes in the manner that you treat their cards.

? Joe Reil

Qashar, the Naga Herald
aka
Shiba Dokan, Phoenix Jade Hand Samurai ? Yojimbo to Shiba Samoshii
Tattooed ? Naga Tattoo



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From dhknecht999 at cox.net  Thu Dec  2 12:41:05 2004
From: dhknecht999 at cox.net (dhknecht999 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 12:41:05 -0500
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Isawa Washici -- Experienced?
Message-ID: <20041202174105.UBMI329.lakermmtao02.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net>

Isawa Washichi's traits are as follows:

Phoenix Clan Shugenja * Double Chi
Uniques * Soul of Naka Kuro Experienced 2

So he himself is not experienced, but he is the "Soul of" an experienced 
personality.

The question is:  can he be retrieved from your Dynasty deck with Boundless 
Sight (Search your Dynasty deck for an Experienced Personality and refill this 
Province with that card, face-up)?

My initial thought was no because he isn't experienced himself.  However, the 
"Soul of" trait allows you to play Naka Kuro Experienced 2 instead if you have 
that card.  Naka Kuro IS expereinced, and could be retrieved with Boundless 
Sight.

Any official rulings?

Thanks,
Don Knecht


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From jalexander at alderac.com  Thu Dec  2 12:29:43 2004
From: jalexander at alderac.com (Jeff Alexander)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 09:29:43 -0800
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] Rule of Obvious Legality/Cardinal Rule -Jeff
In-Reply-To: <20041202045109.75155.qmail@web52305.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041202045109.75155.qmail@web52305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a06002000bdd501554d89@[192.168.1.49]>

>Anyhow, if Kurako's ability can be used while bowed,
>can we now use Crane Tattoo's ability while bowed?

Kurako's ability can't be used while bowed.  It CAN be used while she 
is dead.  Cards are neither bowed nor unbowed while they are out of 
play.

-- 
Jeff Alexander
Lead Designer, L5R CCG
Alderac Entertainment Group

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From jimandandrealetters at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  2 13:22:58 2004
From: jimandandrealetters at hotmail.com (James and Andrea Collier)
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 18:22:58 +0000
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] Rule of Obvious Legality/Cardinal Rule -Jeff
In-Reply-To: <8e.1b75e8a7.2edfe111@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY14-F32A25B78C3E1449404F47EBAB00@phx.gbl>



>In a message dated 12/1/2004 6:49:15 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>jalexander at alderac.com writes:
>"All players are considered cards in play until the turn
>ends.",

Maybe you could say "Target an opposing side" instead of player.

Among other benefits, it reduces the number of letters on the card by 2.

Wannabe no Shiryo



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From yoritomogarou at pop.com.br  Thu Dec  2 15:48:48 2004
From: yoritomogarou at pop.com.br (Andersongarou)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 18:48:48 -0200 (EDT)
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Isawa Washici -- Experienced?
In-Reply-To: <20041202174105.UBMI329.lakermmtao02.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net>
References: <20041202174105.UBMI329.lakermmtao02.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <2941.200.188.187.239.1102020528.squirrel@popmail5.pop.com.br>

Isawa Wasshichi are not experienced by himself like you said, you can?t bring him
with Boundless sight, "soul of" only count for deckbuild, read your manual in soul
of section.


> Isawa Washichi's traits are as follows:
>
> Phoenix Clan Shugenja * Double Chi
> Uniques * Soul of Naka Kuro Experienced 2
>
> So he himself is not experienced, but he is the "Soul of" an experienced
> personality.
>
> The question is:  can he be retrieved from your Dynasty deck with Boundless
> Sight (Search your Dynasty deck for an Experienced Personality and refill this
> Province with that card, face-up)?
>
> My initial thought was no because he isn't experienced himself.  However, the
> "Soul of" trait allows you to play Naka Kuro Experienced 2 instead if you have
> that card.  Naka Kuro IS expereinced, and could be retrieved with Boundless
> Sight.
>
> Any official rulings?
>
> Thanks,
> Don Knecht
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com
>
>


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From kaioto at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  2 17:19:30 2004
From: kaioto at yahoo.com (Martin Lund)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 14:19:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [L5R-CCG] Rules for 29 November 2004 [RULES]
Message-ID: <20041202221931.63424.qmail@web54104.mail.yahoo.com>

Your Rules for Monday, November 29, 2004

* * * * * * * * * *

From:? "Gamblin, Patrick Maurice" <b7um at u...> 
Date:? Mon?Nov?29,?2004? 12:19 am 
Subject:? [L5R-CCG] Bowed at battle resolution

> If I my entire army is bowed during battle
resolution, and there is no 
> opposing army, am I considered to have 'won' it?

No. Not without specific text that says otherwise. You
must have an army on either side for the resolution of
the battle to create a "Win," "Loss," or "Tie."

The same thing applies for duels - if your foe suffers
an "unfortunate accident" before you compare chi
totals, no one "wins" or "loses" a duel.

Aramasu's Pride from the Web of Lies previews,
however, has a printed exemption that counts unopposed
battles as "wins" for its - specific -  effect.

* * * * * * * * * *

From:? mparoni1 at c... 
Date:? Mon?Nov?29,?2004? 3:55 am 
Subject:? [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Two questions

> If say, Otaku is in my army, and a card in my army
is destroyed by a ranged
> attack, does Otaku apply a ranged attack to a card
opposing her, or does she
> destroy a card opposing her?

Otaku specifically cites the effects, "destroy,"
"bow," or "moved move."

You would apply the appropriate one of those 3
effects, not any other restrictions or additional
effects related to them.

See also the email I forwarded to the List from Jeff
Alexander on September 30th.

If an effect sends something home bowed, Otaku would
just send something home.

If an effect destroyed something with a Force less
than X (where X is the RA strength) Otaku would just
destroy something.

If an effect bowed a card and prohibited it from
straightening until its controller's next straighten
phase, Otaku would just bow something.

>  Are regions considered to be in the battlefield,
for the purposes of 
> fulfilling
> relevance? I.e., targeting or destroying a region in
a battlefield would, by
> itself, fulfill relevance?

Yes. They are considered to be cards at the
battlefield, but not cards in any army (hence they
can't be "opposing" or "opposed").

* * * * * * * * * *

From:? mparoni1 at c... 
Date:? Mon?Nov?29,?2004? 6:15 am 
Subject:? [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Shinjo Suboto

> Shinjo Suboto: "Pay Suboto's Gold cost if you are
not the Defender: If Suboto 
> is face-up in one of your Provinces and will be
opposed, bring him into play 
> in the current battle." Does this technically count
as "moving" him into the 
> battle?

No. Bringing a card into play at a Battlefield is not
the same as moving a card into a battlefield.

This is why you can use Essence of Gaki-do in an
Ambush.

* * * * * * * * * *

From:? mparoni1 at c... 
Date:? Mon?Nov?29,?2004? 6:46 am 
Subject:? [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Shinjo Suboto again

> If you are not the Defender, can I still bring him
into play in the current
>  battlefield by paying his gold cost?

"If you are not the defender" only refers to the
condition under which you must pay Suboto's Gold Cost
as a cost of the Action - nothing more.

* * * * * * * * * *

From:? "Togashi Imura" <togashi.shin at f...> 
Date:? Mon?Nov?29,?2004? 8:28 am 
Subject:? [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Restoring Doji Treasury
and Unicity

> I wanted to know which player is able to put a
chosen holding in play. It
> should matter in case of unique holdings (e.g.
Shogun's Barrack) if both
> players want to bring the same one in play.

If the desired effects would conflict (putting two of
the same Unique into play at once) the player whose
turn it is gets to decide the order in which players
select a holding and bring it into play. (Extension
from page 34, Diamond Edition Rulebook)

* * * * * * * * * *

From:? Joe Eagle <josepheagle at c...> 
Date:? Mon?Nov?29,?2004? 1:02 pm 
Subject:? [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Is Tireless Assault
"performed"?

> Question: is Tireless Assault considered to be
"performed" by the
> personality? (for the purposes of Ninja Mentor, for
example)
>
>  Looking at p71 of the rulebook, the only one of the
criteria which
> seems relevant is:
> "3. Actions which involve one or more Personalities
or Followers in
> their cost....or which require targetting your own
Personalities or
> Followers who meet certain conditions, such as being
a Shugenja or a
> Tactician or having a Chi above 2, are performed by
those cards."

It would be performed by criteria #3.

You have to target a Personality.

That Personality must meet the condition of being in
your home and not have been in a battle during its
resolution in this attack phase.

* * * * * * * * * *

From:? Bob Yager <bobyager at a...> 
Date:? Mon?Nov?29,?2004? 2:13 pm 
Subject:? [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Timing Issues

>  Suitengu's Surge has the sentence, "Remove the unit
from the game.
> Return it to the game, with all attached cards and
tokens, before the
> beginning of the next turn."
>
>  Fury of the Hida has the sentence, "Remove the
Followers from the game
> at the end of the turn if you are not a Crab Clan
player."
>
> Is not the ... before the beginning of the next turn
... and .... the
> end of the turn.... the same for timing's sake?

"Effects that occur between phases or segments resolve
in the order of the phase or segment they refer to.
E.g., an effect occuring "after the Events Phase"
resolves before one occuring "before the Action
Phase." [ZF, 10 August 2001]" (Accumulated Rulings,
"Timing")

Suitengu's Surge will prevent Fury of the Hida from
removing the follower tokens from the game, because it
returns the unit to play after Fury of the Hida tries
and fails to remove the tokens from the game.

* * * * * * * * * *

From:? Michael Wilson <popejubal at y...> 
Date:? Mon?Nov?29,?2004? 3:32 pm 
Subject:? [L5R-CCG] [rules] Suiteingu's Surge

> The default state of cards entering play is unbowed
> unless they are holdings (which typically enter play
> bowed) or there is card text stating otherwise.

<SNIP>

> Suiteingu's Surge removes a Personality and all its
> attached cards and tokens from the game entirely.

<SNIP>

> Am I correct in expecting the unit to reenter play
> unbowed?

Sure. They trigger "entering play" effects as well.

* * * * * * * * * *

From:? Jeff Alexander <jalexander at a...> 
Date:? Mon?Nov?29,?2004? 11:22 pm 
Subject:? Re: [L5R-CCG] [rules] Rule of Obvious
Legality/Cardinal Rule -Jeff

>(and yes, I know that Jeff is going to rule that she
>can use her ability in the discard pile - it only
>makes sense. That will be a ruling by fiat, however,
>based on designer intent and not based on the actual
>rules of the game and the wording of the card.)

I have covered this before. If a card tells you to use
its ability
only at an illegal time, then it is legal to use at
that time. It's
a case of the card overriding the rules, and it is
directly supported
by page 34, which is a very real page I did not just
make up.

--
Jeff Alexander
Lead Designer, L5R CCG
Alderac Entertainment Group

* * * * * * * * * *

From:? Jeff Alexander <jalexander at a...> 
Date:? Mon?Nov?29,?2004? 11:13 pm 
Subject:? Re: [L5R-CCG] Herald Promo Time of legality
Question
  
>Greetings,
>
>I got a Herald with a promo today.. It appears that
the promo is Diamond
>bugged only. It is a cool little item card, that
might fit in a few
>decks called
>Tamori's Flame.
>
>Can somebody tell me when it will be legal.

When Web of Lies becomes legal.

--
Jeff Alexander
Lead Designer, L5R CCG
Alderac Entertainment Group

* * * * * * * * * *

From:? Jeff Alexander <jalexander at a...> 
Date:? Tue?Nov?30,?2004? 3:24 am 
Subject:? Re: [L5R-CCG] Presence

>But that doesn't settle the issue. The card that you
are talking
>about is an Imperial edition card. All other MRPs
have either "You
>may play this in a battle which you have no units"
>thus making the Presence issue moot or some statment
making it only
>legal to play when you have one or more units in the
battle.
>
>Zen Faulkes wrote:
>
>>Greetings,
>>
>> The question at hand is, "Does Ancient Battlefield
fulfil the Rule of
>>Presence?" Yes. Precedent: Traversable Terrain (not
the most recent
>>printing, however). Under its original wording, it
was used for years to
>>slide in units in a battle where you had none.

I agree. Traversable Terrain is not a precedent. The
rules of
Presence and Relevance were not the same in Imperial
Edition, which
is the only edition of the rules where Traversable
lacks the explicit
exception to the Rule of Presence.

Regarding Ancient Battlefield:

Page 80 says the action meets Presence only if the
gaining of a unit
in the battle is an unconditional result of the
action.

Examining the Glossary on page 98 reveals that the
definition of
"conditional" is incorrect and needs to change.

The exact wording has yet to be determined, but it
will either be
similar to or replace the definition of "variable".
The movement of
the unit into the battle IS conditional -- it is not a
preordained
mandatory effect of the action, but instead relies on
something not
determinable at the time of playing (in this case, a
future player
decision made when Delayed Terrains resolve).

In the interim, since the movement of the unit is
conditional, the
action of playing Ancient Battlefield does not meet
the Rule of
Presence. It is not legal if you have no units in the
current battle.

--
Jeff Alexander
Lead Designer, L5R CCG
Alderac Entertainment Group

* * * * * * * * * *

That should cover everything for Monday. If I missed
your question, please repost it with the flag [RULES]
as part of your Clear and Distinct subject line. I'll
get back to you at the first opportunity.

Thank you,
- Marty Lund
Deputy Rules Monkey

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From aelfwin at credifarma.net  Thu Dec  2 17:35:16 2004
From: aelfwin at credifarma.net (Vladimir Orellana)
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 16:35:16 -0600
Subject: [L5R-CCG] Ronin Swordsman question + overconfidence
In-Reply-To: <OCEPJCPHIGPCNINELNFHIEAFCEAA.marill@t-online.de>
References: <OCEPJCPHIGPCNINELNFHIEAFCEAA.marill@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <41AF98A4.2010501@credifarma.net>

If I  use test of might or any other duel of force, against a 
personality with 3 printed chi, and he uses the reaction of the 
swordsman to focus the card, can I use overconfidence on him?


Kakita Ryosan wrote:

>Hi I?ve got a question about Ronin Swordsman. The cards says when I enter
>the duel I can take that card into my hand and focus with it. Then I gain 2
>honor if I win the duel. Does the card have to be attached to gain the 2
>honor or not? I mean can I focus this card from hand and will gain the two
>honor before it was in play?
>
>Thanks!
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>L5r-ccg mailing list
>L5r-ccg at alderac.com
>http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com
>
>
>  
>



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From neil_g_phillips at yahoo.com.au  Thu Dec  2 19:36:45 2004
From: neil_g_phillips at yahoo.com.au (NEil Phillips)
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 11:36:45 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] Rule of Obvious Legality/Cardinal Rule -Jeff
In-Reply-To: <a06002000bdd501554d89@[192.168.1.49]>
Message-ID: <20041203003645.19509.qmail@web52308.mail.yahoo.com>

 --- Jeff Alexander <jalexander at alderac.com> wrote: 
> >Anyhow, if Kurako's ability can be used while
> bowed,
> >can we now use Crane Tattoo's ability while bowed?
> 
> Kurako's ability can't be used while bowed.  It CAN
> be used while she 
> is dead.  Cards are neither bowed nor unbowed while
> they are out of 
> play.

OK, let's ask the question again, and could you answer
it this time?

If a personality with a Crane Tattoo is killed whilst
bowed, can I use the Crane Tattoo's reaction.

If not, why not?

If so, please change the archive.

Additional:

Does Akasha Non-Exp bow for her Ranged Attack?

If so, why?

If not, please change the archive.


And an aside: Jeff, could you please answer questions
clearly rather than making cryptic remarks that people
have to puzzle through?

=====
NEil Phillips (neil_g_phillips at yahoo.com.au)
"Reality be Damned, Innocent Lives are at Stake!"
The opinions expressed above are not my own,
but rather are those of Microsoft Corporation.

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From cloak72 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  2 20:29:17 2004
From: cloak72 at yahoo.com (Robert Van Natter)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 17:29:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [L5R-CCG] Ronin Swordsman question + overconfidence
In-Reply-To: <41AF98A4.2010501@credifarma.net>
Message-ID: <20041203012917.85726.qmail@web41825.mail.yahoo.com>

No, because at the time when Overconfidence would be
played, the swordsman is focused face down and is not
part of the publicly know game state.  Nothing has
changed here.  Face down cards are not public
knowledge.  It doesn't matter that you, your opponent,
their family, friends, dogs know what that card is,
the game does not.

--- Vladimir Orellana <aelfwin at credifarma.net> wrote:

> If I  use test of might or any other duel of force,
> against a 
> personality with 3 printed chi, and he uses the
> reaction of the 
> swordsman to focus the card, can I use
> overconfidence on him?
> 
> 
> Kakita Ryosan wrote:
> 
> >Hi I?ve got a question about Ronin Swordsman. The
> cards says when I enter
> >the duel I can take that card into my hand and
> focus with it. Then I gain 2
> >honor if I win the duel. Does the card have to be
> attached to gain the 2
> >honor or not? I mean can I focus this card from
> hand and will gain the two
> >honor before it was in play?
> >
> >Thanks!
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >L5r-ccg mailing list
> >L5r-ccg at alderac.com
>
>http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> L5r-ccg mailing list
> L5r-ccg at alderac.com
>
http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com
> 


=====
Hiruma Ayslyn
Crab Clan Professional Medler  Scout  Samurai  Hero


"We are all just Samurai brother, but when we stand together, we are the Crab"

"Pain shared is pain divided; joy shared is joy multiplied"
Everything I needed to know, I learned from drinking at Callahan's


	
		
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From Sphynx at aol.com  Thu Dec  2 20:34:31 2004
From: Sphynx at aol.com (Sphynx at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 20:34:31 EST
Subject: [L5R-CCG] Tacoma Pre-release reminder...
Message-ID: <da.1a2a1e43.2ee11ca7@aol.com>

Just a reminder that Table Top Games is having a pre-release at 1pm on 
Sunday.  Anyone who plays L5R in the Northwest (and isn't at GC SoCal) should plan 
on attending or I'll break out my teacher voice.

Sunday, 1pm, Table Top Games, $20 (gets you one starter and four boosters and 
at least one promo...probably more).

Leon
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From jalexander at alderac.com  Thu Dec  2 20:46:02 2004
From: jalexander at alderac.com (Jeff Alexander)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 17:46:02 -0800
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] Rule of Obvious Legality/Cardinal Rule -Jeff
In-Reply-To: <20041203003645.19509.qmail@web52308.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041203003645.19509.qmail@web52308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a06002003bdd571c690f2@[192.168.1.59]>

>If a personality with a Crane Tattoo is killed whilst
>bowed, can I use the Crane Tattoo's reaction.

No.

>If not, why not?

By MRP, this reaction is used when the Personality dies, not after. 
The tattooed Personality is not in the discard pile when the trigger 
occurs.

>Does Akasha Non-Exp bow for her Ranged Attack?
>
>If so, why?
>
>If not, please change the archive.

Bowing is not a cost of her ranged attack ability.  Forwarded to Zen. 
The rulebook has changed since she was printed, and this issue has no 
legacy rule that says to play the card by the rules that existed at 
its time of printing (like those that exist for Political actions, 
older cost-effect templates, and obsolete game definitions such as 
"your").  The archive is no longer correct.

>And an aside: Jeff, could you please answer questions
>clearly rather than making cryptic remarks that people
>have to puzzle through?

I will try.  The thing is, the whole question was asked based on a 
mistaken premise.  That tends to invalidate a question and make the 
answer to it meaningless or, worse, confusing.

-- 
Jeff Alexander
Lead Designer, L5R CCG
Alderac Entertainment Group

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From jkkotz at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  2 23:19:05 2004
From: jkkotz at yahoo.com (James Kotz)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 20:19:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] Rule of Obvious Legality/Cardinal Rule -Jeff
In-Reply-To: <a06002005bdd42a07fd3c@[192.168.1.49]>
Message-ID: <20041203041905.33772.qmail@web53110.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jeff Alexander <jalexander at alderac.com> wrote:
> Political Reaction: After another player?s action
> destroys Kurako: If Kurako is in your discard pile,
> even if Kurako is not in play, that player loses 5 >
Honor.

You are adding to the card's action.  The original
does not mention location at all. So...

Political Reaction: After another player's action
destroys Kurako: That player loses 5 honor.

vs.

Political Reaction: After another player's action
destroys Kurako, even if she is not in play: That
player loses 5 Honor.

It's an extra 1/2 line, and makes the game much easier
to understand for those casual players you errata'd KB
for.

Again, because Feign Death/Kisada's Shrine/etc allow
this reaction to be legal while the card is in play,
how are player's supposed to know that the RoOL applies?


	
		
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From henry.hemming at phreaker.net  Thu Dec  2 23:30:06 2004
From: henry.hemming at phreaker.net (Henry Hemming)
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 06:30:06 +0200
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] Rule of Obvious Legality/Cardinal Rule -Jeff
References: <20041203003645.19509.qmail@web52308.mail.yahoo.com>
	<a06002003bdd571c690f2@[192.168.1.59]>
Message-ID: <01b001c4d8f0$c487eed0$1bd68e3e@tanitsu>

cards in dynasty..

3x Doji Saori
1x Asahina Sekawa

1x Shattered Focus
1x Kakita

fate cards..

3x Smoke and Mirrors
3x Wear Him Down
1x Kokujins Daisho
3x Victory or Death

with the new duelist trait, and with enough duelists you can empty your 
opponents hand early in the game, while drawing your entire fate deck in a 
single round.... what were the combos you always thought were too complex to 
set up :-)

-typo






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From neil_g_phillips at yahoo.com.au  Fri Dec  3 01:00:01 2004
From: neil_g_phillips at yahoo.com.au (NEil Phillips)
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 17:00:01 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] Rule of Obvious Legality/Cardinal Rule -Jeff
In-Reply-To: <20041203041905.33772.qmail@web53110.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041203060001.6093.qmail@web52308.mail.yahoo.com>

 --- James Kotz <jkkotz at yahoo.com> wrote: 

...

> It's an extra 1/2 line, and makes the game much
> easier to understand for those casual players you 
> errata'd KB for.

Actually, convoluted templating makes thigns harder to
understand for new players.

The advantage is that experienced players can figure
out exactly how the cards work, without needing to
email the lead designer of the game. 

=====
NEil Phillips (neil_g_phillips at yahoo.com.au)
"Reality be Damned, Innocent Lives are at Stake!"
The opinions expressed above are not my own,
but rather are those of Microsoft Corporation.

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From togashi at o2.ie  Fri Dec  3 07:34:13 2004
From: togashi at o2.ie (Tim Caisley)
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 12:34:13 +0000 GMT
Subject: [L5R-CCG] (rules) WOL focus effect cards.
Message-ID: <1479339158-1102077303-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-13724-@engine16.bwc.produk.on.blackberry>

Hey,

I've been milling on this for the past few days.

As you all know, WoL saw some  cards that have  effects when revieled as focus cards  eg: Weigh the Cost & Misdirection etc. 

My question is, I focus away the above cards, I attach the spell 'The Kami Watch Over Me' to a random Shug & cast it, are these cards shuffled back into my deck or do they remain in my discard pile?


Cheers
Tim

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From popejubal at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  3 08:19:52 2004
From: popejubal at yahoo.com (Michael Wilson)
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 13:19:52 -0000
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] Rule of Obvious Legality/Cardinal Rule -Jeff
In-Reply-To: <a06002000bdd501554d89@[192.168.1.49]>
Message-ID: <copp5o+8p7s@eGroups.com>


--- In L5R-CCG-Archive at yahoogroups.com, Jeff Alexander 
<jalexander at a...> wrote:
> >Anyhow, if Kurako's ability can be used while bowed,
> >can we now use Crane Tattoo's ability while bowed?
> 
> Kurako's ability can't be used while bowed.  It CAN be used while 
she 
> is dead.  Cards are neither bowed nor unbowed while they are out of 
> play.
> 
> -- 
> Jeff Alexander
> Lead Designer, L5R CCG
> Alderac Entertainment Group

Jeff, thanks for following up with a specific statement that says 
Kurako's after-death reaction can be used.  I appreciate having the 
designer statement available to say that my excpetionally nit-picky 
(although I still claim that it is strictly correct) argument does 
not apply.

Mainly, I put it forward as a reason why I dislike the Rule of 
Obvious Legality - because by a strictly constructionist reading of 
the rulebook (including the RoOL), all rulings and the card text, any 
reaction that triggers "after this personality is destroyed" cannot 
be used while dead because of the existance of Feign Death and Ray of 
Hope.  I do understand that this is a bizarre circumstance and I 
believe that your statement above (i.e. "after this personality is 
destroyed" reacts can be used when the person is in the discard pile) 
is good for the game - I just felt the need to put that forward.

Pope Jubal
Jubal no Oni
Dark Oracle of Jell-O
---




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From xtaeus2 at hotmail.com  Fri Dec  3 11:14:56 2004
From: xtaeus2 at hotmail.com (Matt Demand)
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 10:14:56 -0600
Subject: [L5R-CCG] couple questions
In-Reply-To: <000501c34068$83e05740$a09cc118@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <BAY12-F2292AFA72BDDD062C9008DF3B10@phx.gbl>


Well after a lot of playing last night my playgroup and I decided to ask a 
couple questions on some of the new WoL cards we got from the pre-release.  
Okay first, Doji Saori, can she bow and target herself to issue the 
unrefusable challenge?  I don't think so personally as you have to be 
unbowed to issue a challenge.  The other question involves Moto Latomu exp 
and his Reaction.  If I have say 6 regions total in play, my opponent has 
none for the sake of this question, and they have attacked me at two 
different provinces, using the ability off the Khol wall can I produce a 
ranged attacked at any province I move into.  Say they are attacking two of 
my provinces (left and right most), I switch around people from my leftmost 
and right most, do both get to do a ranged attack at each province or only 
the battle that's currently under way?

-Matt Demand



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From jsarment at chipidea.com  Fri Dec  3 12:24:33 2004
From: jsarment at chipidea.com (Jose Angelo Sarmento)
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 17:24:33 +0000
Subject: [L5R-CCG] couple questions
In-Reply-To: <BAY12-F2292AFA72BDDD062C9008DF3B10@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY12-F2292AFA72BDDD062C9008DF3B10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <41B0A151.9060209@chipidea.com>

Matt Demand wrote:

>
> Well after a lot of playing last night my playgroup and I decided to 
> ask a couple questions on some of the new WoL cards we got from the 
> pre-release.  Okay first, Doji Saori, can she bow and target herself 
> to issue the unrefusable challenge?  I don't think so personally as 
> you have to be unbowed to issue a challenge.  

Actually I think the rule is that you have to be unbowed to perform an 
action *that issues* a challenge. Which would make Saori a valid target 
for her own ability.

> The other question involves Moto Latomu exp and his Reaction.  If I 
> have say 6 regions total in play, my opponent has none for the sake of 
> this question, and they have attacked me at two different provinces, 
> using the ability off the Khol wall can I produce a ranged attacked at 
> any province I move into.  Say they are attacking two of my provinces 
> (left and right most), I switch around people from my leftmost and 
> right most, do both get to do a ranged attack at each province or only 
> the battle that's currently under way?

My instinctive reasoning, without reading any of the cards whatsoever, 
is no because any action you take has to meet Relevance for the current 
battle. Taking a ranged attack from and at a personality in another 
battle would not be relevant to the current battle.

>
> -Matt Demand
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> L5r-ccg mailing list
> L5r-ccg at alderac.com
> http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com
>

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From yoritomo.somori at yobanjin.org  Fri Dec  3 12:50:39 2004
From: yoritomo.somori at yobanjin.org (Simon Gill)
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 17:50:39 +0000
Subject: [L5R-CCG] couple questions
In-Reply-To: <41B0A151.9060209@chipidea.com>
References: <BAY12-F2292AFA72BDDD062C9008DF3B10@phx.gbl>
	<41B0A151.9060209@chipidea.com>
Message-ID: <41B0A76F.3000205@yobanjin.org>

Jose Angelo Sarmento wrote:

> My instinctive reasoning, without reading any of the cards whatsoever, 
> is no because any action you take has to meet Relevance for the 
> current battle. Taking a ranged attack from and at a personality in 
> another battle would not be relevant to the current battle.

Battle and Open actions do have to meet Relevance. Reactions don't. The 
problem with Latomu XP is the same as his base version. It was ruled 
that you can only use Latomu basic on a personality in the current 
battle. As far as I can tell, it's the same with Latomu XP, but I need 
to spend much more time with the cards to be sure.

-- 
Mantis Emissary to the <a href="http://matrix.netsoc.tcd.ie/~matsu/phpBB2/index.php">Lower Courts</a>

I donated to <a href="http://tsuruchi.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8950&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=">Feed the Lost</a>


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From kaioto at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  3 15:05:49 2004
From: kaioto at yahoo.com (Martin Lund)
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 12:05:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [L5R-CCG] Rules for 30 November 2004 [RULES]
Message-ID: <20041203200549.74856.qmail@web54110.mail.yahoo.com>

Your Rules for Tuesday, November 30, 2004

* * * * * * * * * *

From:? "Quiet Corn" <quietcorn at h...> 
Date:? Tue?Nov?30,?2004? 12:28 am 
Subject:? [L5R-CCG] Raid Battles and Yu

> Do guys with Yu get to activate their Yu after
loosing a raid battle? They
> don't die as a result of the raid, but according to
the rules, Yu activates
> when you loose a battle, not when your guys start to
die because of loosing
> a battle.

Yes, hence the goodness that was Yu Personalities +
Pick Your Battles. All you have to do is lose. It
doesn't matter if Battle Resolution would destroy you
or not.

* * * * * * * * * * 

From:? Hjal Nelson <shinjo_arasaka at y...> 
Date:? Tue?Nov?30,?2004? 12:32 am 
Subject:? [L5R-CCG] Moto Ogedi Self Destruction Clause

> "destroy ogedei at the end of the resolution segment
if there was an army
> opposing him there when it began and the battle was
at a province with no
> regions attached."
>
> Does this mean:
>
> "destroy ogedei at the end of the resolution segment
if there was an army
> opposing him there when (the battle) began and the
battle was at a province 
> with no regions attached."

No.

> or
>
> "destroy ogedei at the end of the resolution segment
if there was an army
> opposing him there when (the resolution segment)
began and the battle was at a
> province with no regions attached."

This one is correct. Pronoun usage ("it") is only
valid substitution for a noun that has been previously
demonstrated.

The only nouns referred to in the sentence at this
point are Ogedei, an Army, and the Resolution Segment.
Only the Resolution Segment is a time, hence it is the
only one of the three eligible to relate to "when."

So, by process of elimination, "it" must refer to "the
resolution segment."

...

The fact that I am giving a ruling with a grammatical
explanation in light of my own atrocious grammar,
typographical errors, poor spelling, and sundry abuses
of the English language is not lost on me, I assure
you. I feel so dirty. ;-)

* * * * * * * * * *

From:? "albert fernandez" <kaishu320 at h...> 
Date:? Tue?Nov?30,?2004? 2:47 am 
Subject:? [L5R-CCG] [RULES]Regions at battle

> I have a Region in Province A. It is the Attack
Phase, current battle at
> Province A.
>
> 1) Is the Region considered to be in the battle or
battlefield?

Lotus templating is trying to make the timing event
"battle" distinct from the location "battlefield."

In terms of a location, yes, the Region attached to
the Province at which the current battle is being
fought is "at the current battlefield," (new wording)
and "in the current battle" (old wording).

> 2) Could my opponent bow my Region with Well
Prepared?

Yes.

> 3) The Defender have played Explored Territory. The
Attacker uses Crab
> Builders trying to destroy the Region. What happens?
>
> 3.B) The destruction of the Region is negated. The
Defender draws a card.

That one. Explored Territory looks for a card you
control "in this battle." The Region qualifies.

The Region IS NOT, however, in any player's ARMY. This
means if is also not an "opposing" or "opposed" card
at the battlefield.

* * * * * * * * * *

From:? Jeff Alexander <jalexander at a...> 
Date:? Tue?Nov?30,?2004? 2:49 am 
Subject:? Re: [L5R-CCG] [RULES WoL] Question correctly
answered (Tarako WoL)

>Hello,
>
><<I have a Utaku Tarako and Shinjo Yushiro in play. I
have a Region
>attached to my Province A (blank text). The enemy
leader has a Kuon
>Exp. 3 in play, with no cards attached.
><<
><<The enemy leader declares an attack against me.
Assigns Kuon to
>Province B. I assign Tarako to defend this Province
B. Yushiro
>defends Province A.
><<
><<The enemy leader starts the battle in Province A.
Now I want as my
>first battle action:
><<
><<- To use the Tarako's battle action. Destroy Region
attached to
>Province A.Target Kuon. Destroy Kuon.
><<
><<Is it legal?
>>
>>Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] [RULES WoL] Question not
correctly answered
>> (remainder) Tarako WoL
>>
>>You have a unit in the current battle, so you have
Presence.
>>
>>You are targeting a card in the current battle
(since costs target as
>>well), so you have Relevance.
>>
>Then, does this mean that Regions are considered to
be cards in the
>Battlefield, or in the battle, at the Province they
are attached to?
>I suppose your answer will be YES.
>
>Could be a Region bowed by a Well Prepared (suppose I
have played a
>Terrain before and remains in play)?
>
>It sounds strange to me, because Regions are attached
to Provinces,
>but I have never seen a rule that they are on the
battlefield in the
>same way as units, Terrains or Formations.
>
>Please, Could you confirm this point?
>
>A) Regions are considered in the battlefield whenever
are battles in
>the Provinces they are attached to
>B) Regions are never in the battlefield

A). (But they are not in the defending army and are
not opposing any
attacking cards.)

--
Jeff Alexander
Lead Designer, L5R CCG
Alderac Entertainment Group

* * * * * * * * * *

From:? greg paradis <shosuro_taekada at y...> 
Date:? Tue?Nov?30,?2004? 7:49 am 
Subject:? [L5R-CCG] Re: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 17, Issue
71

>  As if Marty and Jeff did not have enough work,
>
> I apologize if this has been answered here, I have
not seen it yet.
>
> Ninja Mentor under Tishi Sensei. Does the follower
become 2/ +3 ? Or does the
> follower itself merely gain 1 chi ?

2 / +3

For more information, check out the message:
"[L5R-CCG] Rules for 24 and 25 October 2004 [RULES]"
in my reply to Shosuro Kenshin's message: "[L5R-CCG]
Followers and Chi bonuses"

You can view it in the Yahoo! archive at this URL:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/L5R-CCG-Archive/message/54946

Do a find for "Ninja Mentor" and you should find it
about halfway down the page.

* * * * * * * * * *

From:? "Goju Kaze" <GojuKaze at w...> 
Date:? Tue?Nov?30,?2004? 3:12 pm 
Subject:? Re: [L5R-CCG] Rules for 27 November 2004
[RULES]

> > From: "Arthur Halavais" <arthur at h...>
> > Date: Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:40 pm
> > Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re:Suboto and Slaughter the
Scout
> >
> > > Is Slaughter a legal play in responce to
Suboto's Action?
> > > (or, is his action movement?)
> >
> > Entering play at a Battle is not the same thing as
> > Moving into a Battle.
> >
> > Entering play at a Battle does not trigger
Slaughter
> > the Scout.
> >
>
> This means Suboto can enter play during an Ambush? I
though so, but I'm
> waiting confirmation.

Yes - just like you can make Essence of Gaki-do Tokens
in any Ambush or invoke Satsume / Toshimoko / Toshiken
/ Hachi with Arrival of the Emerald Champion.

* * * * * * * * * *

From:? Marill at t... (Kakita Ryosan) 
Date:? Tue?Nov?30,?2004? 5:17 pm 
Subject:? [L5R-CCG] Ronin Swordsman

> Hi I?ve got a question about Ronin Swordsman. The
cards says when I enter
> the duel I can take that card into my hand and focus
with it. Then I gain 2
> honor if I win the duel. Does the card have to be
attached to gain the 2
> honor or not? I mean can I focus this card from hand
and will gain the two
> honor before it was in play?

No, you won't get any Honor if you play it as a Focus
without ever attaching it.

That honor gain is an Effect of the Action on Ronin
Swordsman. If you don't take that Action, it can't
give you any Honor. Ronin Swordsman requires you use
its Reaction only when attached to a Personality in a
duel ("this personality").

* * * * * * * * * *

From:? "Matt Skordia" <mattskordia at h...> 
Date:? Tue?Nov?30,?2004? 9:35 pm 
Subject:? [L5R-CCG] [RULES]The Last Prophecy

> 1) When Last Prophecy resolves, may I name a card
that is not in my deck??

Yes. If your opponent does not believe that you lack a
copy of that card, you can have a judge validate it.
In most cases, I doubt this would be an issue. If you
really want to dodge the effect, I don't recall any
rule forcing you to name a format-legal card. 

(In fact, at one point in my career playing and
judging Magic, you could name "The Ace of Spades," for
a similar effect if you pleased.)

> 2) If I don't find the card that I named, do I still
have to discard a
> number of cards equal to the focus value of the
named card??

No. This effect refers to current Focus Value of the
exact copy of the card that you retrieve. If you don't
have a copy of that card retrieved, the value would
not be defined and you wouldn't discard any cards.
Knowledge of the printed Focus Value of the card's
most recent printing is irrelevant. You can't apply a
"default" assumed value since an individual card might
have its Stat Values modified to make it distinct from
any other copies.

* * * * * * * * * *

That should cover everything for Tuesday. If I missed
your question, please repost it with the flag [RULES]
as part of Clear and Distinct subject line. I'll get
back to you at the first opportunity.

Thank you,
- Marty Lund
Deputy Rules Monkey

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From popejubal at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  3 16:33:38 2004
From: popejubal at yahoo.com (Michael Wilson)
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 13:33:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] Chimamire vs. Chags
Message-ID: <20041203213338.83083.qmail@web53401.mail.yahoo.com>

Chimamire no Oni hands out some -1 Chi loving to Moto
Chagtai until his chi is 0.

Moto Chagtai now has 0 chi and has no penalties that
will wear off at or before the end of the turn.

Does Chagtai die now or at the end of the turn?

Pope Jubal
Jubal no Oni
Dark Oracle of Jell-O
---


		
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From jkkotz at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  3 17:46:07 2004
From: jkkotz at yahoo.com (James Kotz)
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 14:46:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] Rule of Obvious Legality/Cardinal Rule -Jeff
In-Reply-To: <20041203060001.6093.qmail@web52308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041203224608.45197.qmail@web53108.mail.yahoo.com>

--- NEil Phillips <neil_g_phillips at yahoo.com.au>
wrote:
> > It's an extra 1/2 line, and makes the game much
> > easier to understand for those casual players you 
> > errata'd KB for.
> 
> Actually, convoluted templating makes thigns harder
> to
> understand for new players.

Is this the part where we starting talking about "It
isn't convoluted! Yes it is! No it isn't!" and lose
track of what we were originally talking about?


		
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From popejubal at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  3 17:49:04 2004
From: popejubal at yahoo.com (Michael Wilson)
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 14:49:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] dying/discarded after Gozoku lockdown
Message-ID: <20041203224904.15238.qmail@web53404.mail.yahoo.com>

Let's say someone locks down one of my personalities
with Gozoku Sensei and doesn't use the favor after
that.

I kill that personality and then Feign Death.  They'll
come back into play bowed, but is the lockdown
"forgotten" because they died?  In particular, I'm
thinking that it might be because cards that are not
in play are neither bowed nor unbowed.

Also, lets say that the gozoku'd personality is
discarded from play and then enters play again later
(Jigoku Sensei followed by Musume Mura, for example). 
They'll enter play unbowed, but will the "cannot
unbow" lockdown effect still be in place?

Pope Jubal
Jubal no Oni
Dark Oracle of Jell-O
---

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From rmcchesney at hotmail.com  Fri Dec  3 23:03:48 2004
From: rmcchesney at hotmail.com (Robert McChesney)
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2004 04:03:48 +0000
Subject: [L5R-CCG] weapon abillity
Message-ID: <BAY16-F228F7DA712ACC452D77C6DDCB20@phx.gbl>

Can you still use a weapons abillity even if the personnality its attached 
to is bowed?
Example:
Title  Ichiro's Yumi
Text  Weapon Will only attach to a Samurai or Bushi. Battle: Bow Ichiro's 
Yumi to give -3F to an opposing Follower or Personality. You may then 
produce a Ranged 0 Attack against that card if it is a legal target.
Can i still perform this abillity if the weapon isn't bowed but the perso 
its attached to is?

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