From fraganhome at earthlink.net Tue Jun 1 01:30:54 2004 From: fraganhome at earthlink.net (The Frank/Egan House) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 01:30:54 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Rules Qs on two cards In-Reply-To: <200405311923.1buYVR68k3NZFji0@eagle> Message-ID: First, the relevant text from l5rsearch.com: Come one at a Time Immediate Terrain Battle: While there is only one defending Personality, that Personality may, as a Battle action, issue an unrefusable challenge to an opposing Personality, and each player may, as a Battle action, send one of his or her bowed or unbowed attacking units home bowed. The defending Personality, if there is one, may take one such challenge action immediately after this Terrain is played. > I have never been able to figure out exactly how Come One at a Time works. Can > anyone clarify? Let me parse this text out to clarify several questions > related to this card. > > The first part reads "Battle: While there is only one defending Personality, > that Personality may, as a Battle action, issue an unrefusable challenge to an > opposing Personality, and each player may, as a Battle action, send one of his > or her bowed or unbowed attacking units home bowed." > > So, does that mean I can have two personalities defending, and then send one > of them home (because "each player may ... send on of his or her bowed or > unbowed units home bowed). No, but you can play the terrain (COAT is a terrain) when there is more than one defending personality. This would theoretically prevent your opponent from playing a terrain of their own. Similarly, an attacker can play it in order to send home units from their army if they need to. Also, you seem to have misread. The card says: each player may, as a Battle action, send one of his or her bowed or unbowed attacking units home bowed. Only attackers can go home bowed. Not defenders. > THEN, with one defender left, use my defender in my next action to issue a > challenge? Is this legal? Or, is the card meant for only one defender? The challenge only is legal when there is one defender. You can play it whenever you want to. > ALSO, how many times may each player send a Personality home? Is it just once, > or do they now have the option to do that several times as a battle action? The attacker can flee with his entire army if he wants. > ALSO, does this mean I can issue a challege with my single defender once, OR > does it mean I can keep doing it again and again so long as the terrain is in > play? You can challenge as many times as you want, one personality at a time. > I read this card to mean that players may send home Personalities multiple > times (possibly) and the defender may duel multiple times (possibly). Correct, > or no? Sort of, see above. > Second, I have a question about Hiruma Dojo. Part of the card reads, > "Reaction: When paying for a Samurai, bow the Hiruma Dojo to lower that > Samurai's Gold cost by 4." > > I read this to mean that you can NEVER use Hiruma Dojo by itself to produce 4 > gold for a samurai. Is that correct? Must you ALWAYS use some other gold > resource to enact the reaction? In other words, doesn't this require you to > use Hiruma Dojo in conjunction with some other card in all or nearly all cases > (nearly all if there's some funky way to get gold I don't know about, like > tokens). Sort of. You're paying for a 2 gold samurai when you bow the Hiruma Dojo to reduce its cost by 4... thus making it free. You're also paying for a samurai when you make Kurohito with 3 Hiruma Dojos and a Barley Farm. So you reduce the cost. In essence you make 4 gold, but you're not actually making gold. Go figure. You pay for a small farm by paying 0 gold. You pay for Koto (Toku) by paying 0 gold. So why not pay for Utagawa by reducing her cost to 0 and then paying 0 gold? -- Bayushi Taiga Scorpion Clan Samurai * Ninja * Demolitionist "Here oni, here oni! Gotcha!" _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From EvanD at Chartermi.net Tue Jun 1 02:09:13 2004 From: EvanD at Chartermi.net (Evan Dukarski) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 02:09:13 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [Rules] After reading the diamond rulebook.. Message-ID: <00e101c4479e$f7be3860$41c5e342@dukarski> Im a long time casual L5R player and today I sat down and read through the diamond edition rulebook. It was the first time ive actually read a rulebook since I first got into the game way back with emerald edition. Usually when a new set comes out ill just skim through the book but this time I actually read it. Well now after reading it I have a few questions and of course there's no better place to get them answered than here. 1. I understand that costs are paid after a target is selected for a card. I'm confused on how timing works for this. For example..if I target one of my opponents cards with Honors Cost..and he reacts and cancels my honors cost..do I still have to pay the gold for it..I mean it seems to me that if he has a reaction that will cancel HC wouldn't he have to play it right when I choose my target before any costs are played? 2. If bonuses received from items are considered force bonuses how does this work for cards that react to when a personality gains a force bonus? If my opponent attaches a weapon to one of his personalities and I want to play say a overconfidence. Is the personality only considered to be "gaining a force bonus" right after he attaches the weapon so I have to play my overconfidence then...or is the personality considered to be constantly gaining the bonus..so I could target him with the overconfidence anytime I wanted to. This also brought up a question in my head about Senpet Scimitar..if scimitar is giving the personality a force bonus wouldn't that mean that whenever the personality is opposed the weapons total force bonus should be +5? 3. I understand that at sometimes when one of your actions is cancelled you may be entitled to a refund of any costs paid to play that action..the section in the rulebook on this was a little vague to me..how does this work..maybe someone out there can explain it a little more clearly. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From fairbnks5 at earthlink.net Tue Jun 1 02:59:40 2004 From: fairbnks5 at earthlink.net (Anne Fairbanks) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 23:59:40 -0700 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Memorial Day Message-ID: <410-2200462165940531@earthlink.net> I too would like to add my thanks as well. To all those who gave their lives to keep us strong and free, thanks for your sacrifice. To those who were able to return after service well rendered, thanks for your time, courage and energy. And to all those who currently serve, you are in my prayers daily. Come home in safety and peace. God bless you all. Anne I know that this is U.S. specific, so I apologize in advance. L5R has a very strong player base of people who either are or were active military. I wanted to take a minute to thank them for their service to the country. Your time and sacrifices are appreciated. Eric Devlin Anne Fairbanks fairbnks5 at earthlink.net _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From chrisb at bci.co.nz Tue Jun 1 04:27:49 2004 From: chrisb at bci.co.nz (Chris Bridgeman) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 20:27:49 +1200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Can a Quartermaster pay for a Crystal Mine Message-ID: Hi Can I bow and destory a Quartermaster and bow a Crystal mine at the same time to produce 6 gold and a +2/+2 token on a Samurai coming into play? Quartermaster: Bow Quartermaster to produce 2 Gold. Bow and destroy Quartermaster to produce 2 Gold when paying for a Samurai Personality or Bushi Personality. Give that Personality a +2F/+2C Weapon Item token after he enters play. Crystal Mine Singular Bow Crystal Mine and one of your Gold-producing Holdings to produce 6 Gold. Domo Arigato Matsu Kurisu --- Unexperienced pussy cat --- _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From montesquieu1 at free.fr Tue Jun 1 04:50:20 2004 From: montesquieu1 at free.fr (Montesquieu) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 10:50:20 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] New Code of Bushido / Sick Sad Game Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040601104358.02ebbc40@pop.free.fr> Hi, Just a little sad post. Just a little post to thanks those who gave a help to the new code of bushido. Less fun, more "paranoism". The principle of honor means that, because you follow it, there is no need of extra-rules. The debate about deckbacking was harsh on the Swift Sword forum. I can see that the top players have won. Wow. And where is the l5r spirit ? Oh yes, in the title, there is the word "bushido". Eh... that's all. Great job, guys. Continue to turn "a game with a great universe" in "a game". Ikoma Nagisa sad, sad, sad -------------- next part -------------- --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.690 / Virus Database: 451 - Release Date: 22/05/04 -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From damnukids at yahoo.com Tue Jun 1 05:58:38 2004 From: damnukids at yahoo.com (M S Colson) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 02:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] New Code of Bushido / Sick Sad Game In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040601104358.02ebbc40@pop.free.fr> Message-ID: <20040601095838.34513.qmail@web12704.mail.yahoo.com> --- Montesquieu wrote: > Just a little post to thanks those who gave a help > to the new code of > bushido. > Wow. And where is the l5r spirit ? I'd like to address an obvious flaw. I won't defend stinky people, but I do take issue with the dress code. This is a free country and if Lucas wants to play pantsless, then Rules Be Damned. Lets face it, when Lucas plays L5r it's performance art. If you make him keep his pants on, you are directly infringing on his freedom of expression. What I want to know is, Where is the American Spirit? So close to Verterans day, and yet we forget what all those men and women died for. I served My country so Lucas Twyman could play L5r in his Underwear!! Colson __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jsarment at chipidea.com Tue Jun 1 06:03:08 2004 From: jsarment at chipidea.com (Jose Angelo Sarmento) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 11:03:08 +0100 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Can a Quartermaster pay for a Crystal Mine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40BC545C.3020209@chipidea.com> No. If you bow the Quartermaster for the Crystal Mine's ability, you can not bow it for any of its own abilities and vice-versa. Best regards, Jose Sarmento Chris Bridgeman wrote: >Hi > >Can I bow and destory a Quartermaster and bow a Crystal mine at the same >time to produce 6 gold and a +2/+2 token on a Samurai coming into play? > >Quartermaster: >Bow Quartermaster to produce 2 Gold. Bow and destroy Quartermaster to >produce 2 Gold when paying for a Samurai Personality or Bushi Personality. >Give that Personality a +2F/+2C Weapon Item token after he enters play. > >Crystal Mine >Singular Bow Crystal Mine and one of your Gold-producing Holdings to produce >6 Gold. > >Domo Arigato > >Matsu Kurisu >--- Unexperienced pussy cat --- >_______________________________________________ >L5r-ccg mailing list >L5r-ccg at alderac.com >http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > > > _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From daimyo_shi at yahoo.com Tue Jun 1 08:16:19 2004 From: daimyo_shi at yahoo.com (Doji Hajime) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 08:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report In-Reply-To: <00c801c4477f$5aa66710$1619d60c@Cyclops> Message-ID: <20040601121619.63253.qmail@web90109.mail.scd.yahoo.com> --- Shinjo Dun wrote: > > > if you cut to 16 with a field of 67 people you > are going to have a > > riot > > > on your hands. Swiss is not a elimination round, > it what most > > people go > > > to Kotei for, I get to play against people i > never played before is a > > > large format. any one cutting to 16 at a event > with more than forty > > > people is asking for trouble. > > > > > > > > > In the new Code of Bushido they expect to cut to > 16 when you have > > over 100 people! > > > > That is insane! Why bother playing if you are > perfect or out? > > > > I can see no logic in this (or a couple other > things in the new Code, > > to be frank) > > > > Rusty Priske > > > > You've never played in an event with 150+ people, > went 6-2, finished > 9th-12th, and not made single elims have you? > > I have. Many times. > > I felt that at 5-3 at the IN Kotei I had NO business > making the cut to > single elims. I was 44th out of 194(191, 197, > whatever the exact number > was). That's about as good as 16th out of > 67(actually its slightly better). > There is NEVER any need for almost HALF(47%) of the > field to make the cut to > single elims. If 47% of the people in IN would have > made the cut then 90 > people would have been in. That's not a workable > number, so it would have > had to be either 64 or 128 for even pairings. If > they had cut to either of > those numbers it would have added at LEAST an hour > to the event, making it > end at almost 8:30 AM(I left at 7 after the last > person in my local group > was eliminated). > > Might as well just play 5 rounds of swiss and start > single elims then and > let everyone in if you're letting half the people > in. > > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com Ok what is the point of someone going to their "local" Kotei, who can't afford to just jump to from kotei to kotei if the cut is going to be a 1/4 or less of the field? ===== Doji Hajime Crane Clan Iaijutsu master * Samurai * Double Chi * Unique * Experienced * Jade Hand "If you are loyal to your lord, you should lie, murder, steal, and cheat for him. If you rather commit Seppaku than do those things how loyal are you really?" Soshi Hakiko Third ranked Sensei in the Kakita Iaijutsu Academy In morning of Toturi II _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From daimyo_shi at yahoo.com Tue Jun 1 08:32:04 2004 From: daimyo_shi at yahoo.com (Doji Hajime) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 08:32:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040601123204.71026.qmail@web90104.mail.scd.yahoo.com> --- Rusty Priske wrote: > > > You've never played in an event with 150+ people, > went 6-2, > finished > > 9th-12th, and not made single elims have you? > > > > I have. Many times. > > Nope. I have been to three large tournaments (our > local ones don't > get past 16 people). Each time I failed to make the > Top 32. But the > point was, as I played, I knew that I had a Chance > and I kept playing > and trying to do my best to get in. This past > weekend, after 3 > rounds I was 1-2. After 6 I was 4-2. I knew that If > I won my 4th > straight game, I could make the cut. That is cool. > That is the way it > should be, with people fighting it out until the > very end. > > Under the new system, after the second loss, I might > as well have > gone home. > > I'm not trying to claim that half the people should > get in, I just think > 16 people in a tournament of over 100 only benefits > the elite > players who play in big tournaments all the time. If > they have a bad > day and lose a couple early, they can just scrub and > play in > another big tourney the following week. My trip to > Kotei is a big deal > every year. When I didn't make the cut this year, I > wasn't crying > because I knew that I had a fair shot and couldn't > quite get it done. > Under the new system, instead I would have felt like > a spent a lot > of time and money for nothing. > > I think that if you have at least 80-90 players, you > should go to Top > 32. Below that, 16 might be more appropriate. The > new rules have > it 16 unless you have 128 people. I just don't like > it. > > Rusty Priske > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com I have to completely agree with Rusty here since we when to Kotei with the same kind of ideas. I lose my first two games at the Toronto Kotei, cutting to a top 16, I would have been already eliminated, what fun would that be. I don't think the cut number in the new code are very good. it too easy for very good player that travel around and take most of the top spots leaving the local players out of their own Kotei. ===== Doji Hajime Crane Clan Iaijutsu master * Samurai * Double Chi * Unique * Experienced * Jade Hand "If you are loyal to your lord, you should lie, murder, steal, and cheat for him. If you rather commit Seppaku than do those things how loyal are you really?" Soshi Hakiko Third ranked Sensei in the Kakita Iaijutsu Academy In morning of Toturi II _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From daimyo_shi at yahoo.com Tue Jun 1 09:54:05 2004 From: daimyo_shi at yahoo.com (Doji Hajime) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 09:54:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] competitive vs casual In-Reply-To: <12c.4325c830.2dedd374@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040601135405.89299.qmail@web90102.mail.scd.yahoo.com> --- Kirbdog53 at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/1/2004 5:17:28 AM Pacific > Standard Time, > daimyo_shi at yahoo.com writes: > > << "local" > Kotei, who can't afford to just jump to from kotei > to > kotei if the cut is going to be a 1/4 or less of > the field?>>> > > Unless the casual player is really good, or lives in > a place like Alaska, > there really isn't. This game at the higher levels > is no longer about the casual > player or hobbyist, it is increasingly geared to > the ultra competitive > player. The transformation has been going on since > the introduction of Gold > edition. Aside from the changes to the elimination > rounds, the new rules on deck > backing also are a blow to the casual player. AEG > has increasing handed control > of the tournament scene over to the competitive > players, you only have to > see who wrote the new Code of Bushido to figure > that out. > With the exception of cash prizes (which many would > like to see introduced > and I see in the near future) there is a de facto > pro tour system in place now. > AEG is still providing some support to the casual > players with the local > tournament systems, like the clan rivals, so all is > not lost. And who knows, on > any given day you can have a run of luck, and a > tuned deck. > Moto Gahrie > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com Creating an elite system is not a very good thing for any Collectible Card game, In fact I think in the long run it is what causes trouble for several of the more popular games. Certienly having the same group of players making large parts of the story will completely devalue that aspect of the game. Cutting down to the numbers that AEG has in the new code will be even worse for local tournaments. The cuts on small numbered events are really going to hurt. Of course I believe that the TO still can change the rules for his event as he could before with a months notice. Creating Elites is bad for any game, period! always has, always will be. ===== Doji Hajime Crane Clan Iaijutsu master * Samurai * Double Chi * Unique * Experienced * Jade Hand "If you are loyal to your lord, you should lie, murder, steal, and cheat for him. If you rather commit Seppaku than do those things how loyal are you really?" Soshi Hakiko Third ranked Sensei in the Kakita Iaijutsu Academy In morning of Toturi II _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From andrew.tate at mchsi.com Tue Jun 1 09:32:04 2004 From: andrew.tate at mchsi.com (Shinjo Dun) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 08:32:04 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report References: <1a8.244d88e1.2dedda92@aol.com> Message-ID: <014401c447dc$d43f6c40$1619d60c@Cyclops> > In a message dated 6/1/2004 6:02:49 AM Pacific Standard Time, > andrew.tate at mchsi.com writes: > > The cut shouldn't be about taking everyone who won half their games. It > should be about taking the best players in the field. The top 25% is enough > by FAR. > > There was a time when the focus was on all of the players, not just the > "best players". Now most people play this game for enjoyment, so they will > continue to play when all hope of making the single elims is gone. > However, given the new rules about dropping and cutting to single elims, > there really is no point in playing at most Kotei once you have two losses > (three for sure), because you are obviosly not one of the best. > If enough people take this attitude, and start dropping, what happens to > strength of schedule? > Moto Gahrie If done on a computer, with DCIr(which a lot of TOs use), it slightly improves. The first tiebreaker on DCIr(as I recall) is opponent's match win percentage. 1-2(33.3%) factors into tiebreakers a lot better than 1-6(14.3%). If its done manually, it depends on the method the person doing the tiebreakers uses, although I really can't imagine ANY sane TO using anything other than some pairings program for tourneys. DCIr is really good, and really easy to use. If it ain't broke........... Shinjo Dun _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From akodo_konjiro at yahoo.com Tue Jun 1 09:07:12 2004 From: akodo_konjiro at yahoo.com (con-zee`) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 06:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] New(ish) player with some more questions In-Reply-To: <20040531212026.48803.qmail@web86311.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040601130712.52678.qmail@web11607.mail.yahoo.com> 1) Is the decks in the Training Ground set the same as the decks in the Diamond Edition Lion and Shadowlands starter decks. [konjiro] Nope. Cards in TG are all fixed and designed as ready-to-play set. However, in TG you won't get any Clan Champion, House Guard and Celestial Sword compared to Starter decks which these cards are already fixed. 2) Which cards are the four promotional cards exclusive to the Training Ground set. [konjiro] VoitagiXP, Wanton Destruction, Matsu Hyun XP, Deathseeker's Glory KONJIRO Lion Clan Punisher "...I ain't here for revenge...I'm here to punish..." L5R Cards for Trade? check it out here: http://www.geocities.com/akodo_konjiro/ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Kirbdog53 at aol.com Tue Jun 1 09:11:46 2004 From: Kirbdog53 at aol.com (Kirbdog53 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 09:11:46 EDT Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report Message-ID: <1a8.244d88e1.2dedda92@aol.com> In a message dated 6/1/2004 6:02:49 AM Pacific Standard Time, andrew.tate at mchsi.com writes: The cut shouldn't be about taking everyone who won half their games. It should be about taking the best players in the field. The top 25% is enough by FAR. There was a time when the focus was on all of the players, not just the "best players". Now most people play this game for enjoyment, so they will continue to play when all hope of making the single elims is gone. However, given the new rules about dropping and cutting to single elims, there really is no point in playing at most Kotei once you have two losses (three for sure), because you are obviosly not one of the best. If enough people take this attitude, and start dropping, what happens to strength of schedule? Moto Gahrie _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From andrew.tate at mchsi.com Tue Jun 1 09:00:24 2004 From: andrew.tate at mchsi.com (Shinjo Dun) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 08:00:24 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report References: <20040601121619.63253.qmail@web90109.mail.scd.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <013101c447d8$69c7db30$1619d60c@Cyclops> > --- Shinjo Dun wrote: > > > > if you cut to 16 with a field of 67 people you > > are going to have a > > > riot > > > > on your hands. Swiss is not a elimination round, > > it what most > > > people go > > > > to Kotei for, I get to play against people i > > never played before is a > > > > large format. any one cutting to 16 at a event > > with more than forty > > > > people is asking for trouble. > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the new Code of Bushido they expect to cut to > > 16 when you have > > > over 100 people! > > > > > > That is insane! Why bother playing if you are > > perfect or out? > > > > > > I can see no logic in this (or a couple other > > things in the new Code, > > > to be frank) > > > > > > Rusty Priske > > > > > > > You've never played in an event with 150+ people, > > went 6-2, finished > > 9th-12th, and not made single elims have you? > > > > I have. Many times. > > > > I felt that at 5-3 at the IN Kotei I had NO business > > making the cut to > > single elims. I was 44th out of 194(191, 197, > > whatever the exact number > > was). That's about as good as 16th out of > > 67(actually its slightly better). > > There is NEVER any need for almost HALF(47%) of the > > field to make the cut to > > single elims. If 47% of the people in IN would have > > made the cut then 90 > > people would have been in. That's not a workable > > number, so it would have > > had to be either 64 or 128 for even pairings. If > > they had cut to either of > > those numbers it would have added at LEAST an hour > > to the event, making it > > end at almost 8:30 AM(I left at 7 after the last > > person in my local group > > was eliminated). > > > > Might as well just play 5 rounds of swiss and start > > single elims then and > > let everyone in if you're letting half the people > > in. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > L5r-ccg mailing list > > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > > > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > > Ok what is the point of someone going to their "local" > Kotei, who can't afford to just jump to from kotei to > kotei if the cut is going to be a 1/4 or less of the field? > > ===== > Doji Hajime > The same as those who can afford to jump from kotei to kotei. To qualify for Gencon. The cut shouldn't be about taking everyone who won half their games. It should be about taking the best players in the field. The top 25% is enough by FAR. Shinjo Dun _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From daimyo_shi at yahoo.com Tue Jun 1 09:59:03 2004 From: daimyo_shi at yahoo.com (Doji Hajime) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 09:59:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report In-Reply-To: <013101c447d8$69c7db30$1619d60c@Cyclops> Message-ID: <20040601135903.9844.qmail@web90107.mail.scd.yahoo.com> --- Shinjo Dun wrote: > > --- Shinjo Dun wrote: > > > > > > if you cut to 16 with a field of 67 people you > > > are going to have a > > > > riot > > > > > on your hands. Swiss is not a elimination > round, > > > it what most > > > > people go > > > > > to Kotei for, I get to play against people > i > > > never played before is a > > > > > large format. any one cutting to 16 at a > event > > > with more than forty > > > > > people is asking for trouble. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the new Code of Bushido they expect to cut > to > > > 16 when you have > > > > over 100 people! > > > > > > > > That is insane! Why bother playing if you are > > > perfect or out? > > > > > > > > I can see no logic in this (or a couple other > > > things in the new Code, > > > > to be frank) > > > > > > > > Rusty Priske > > > > > > > > > > You've never played in an event with 150+ > people, > > > went 6-2, finished > > > 9th-12th, and not made single elims have you? > > > > > > I have. Many times. > > > > > > I felt that at 5-3 at the IN Kotei I had NO > business > > > making the cut to > > > single elims. I was 44th out of 194(191, 197, > > > whatever the exact number > > > was). That's about as good as 16th out of > > > 67(actually its slightly better). > > > There is NEVER any need for almost HALF(47%) of > the > > > field to make the cut to > > > single elims. If 47% of the people in IN would > have > > > made the cut then 90 > > > people would have been in. That's not a > workable > > > number, so it would have > > > had to be either 64 or 128 for even pairings. > If > > > they had cut to either of > > > those numbers it would have added at LEAST an > hour > > > to the event, making it > > > end at almost 8:30 AM(I left at 7 after the last > > > person in my local group > > > was eliminated). > > > > > > Might as well just play 5 rounds of swiss and > start > > > single elims then and > > > let everyone in if you're letting half the > people > > > in. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > L5r-ccg mailing list > > > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > > > > > > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > > > > Ok what is the point of someone going to their > "local" > > Kotei, who can't afford to just jump to from kotei > to > > kotei if the cut is going to be a 1/4 or less of > the field? > > > > ===== > > Doji Hajime > > > > The same as those who can afford to jump from kotei > to kotei. To qualify > for Gencon. > > The cut shouldn't be about taking everyone who won > half their games. It > should be about taking the best players in the > field. The top 25% is enough > by FAR. > > Shinjo Dun > > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com Except that you never take people that have only one half their games. At Toronto they only took a hand full of 4 and 3 players and Toronto was a fairly large event. Of course I guess if you cut to perfect records then there be no Swiss Curse. So what we end up with is a set of elite all going to Gen con Seeded to Sat. and the Local player will never get there because the Cut is so small. ===== Doji Hajime Crane Clan Iaijutsu master * Samurai * Double Chi * Unique * Experienced * Jade Hand "If you are loyal to your lord, you should lie, murder, steal, and cheat for him. If you rather commit Seppaku than do those things how loyal are you really?" Soshi Hakiko Third ranked Sensei in the Kakita Iaijutsu Academy In morning of Toturi II _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Kirbdog53 at aol.com Tue Jun 1 08:41:24 2004 From: Kirbdog53 at aol.com (Kirbdog53 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 08:41:24 EDT Subject: [L5R-CCG] competitive vs casual Message-ID: <12c.4325c830.2dedd374@aol.com> In a message dated 6/1/2004 5:17:28 AM Pacific Standard Time, daimyo_shi at yahoo.com writes: <<>> Unless the casual player is really good, or lives in a place like Alaska, there really isn't. This game at the higher levels is no longer about the casual player or hobbyist, it is increasingly geared to the ultra competitive player. The transformation has been going on since the introduction of Gold edition. Aside from the changes to the elimination rounds, the new rules on deck backing also are a blow to the casual player. AEG has increasing handed control of the tournament scene over to the competitive players, you only have to see who wrote the new Code of Bushido to figure that out. With the exception of cash prizes (which many would like to see introduced and I see in the near future) there is a de facto pro tour system in place now. AEG is still providing some support to the casual players with the local tournament systems, like the clan rivals, so all is not lost. And who knows, on any given day you can have a run of luck, and a tuned deck. Moto Gahrie _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From kalandine at earthlink.net Tue Jun 1 10:06:20 2004 From: kalandine at earthlink.net (kalandine at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 10:06:20 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Florida Kotei and cut to the top 32 Message-ID: <23052843.1086098781007.JavaMail.root@thecount.psp.pas.earthlink.net> I was running the computer for the Florida Kotei. We cut to the top 32 for two reasons: 1. It was consistent with the Code of Bushido. 2. It was what we advertised on the website (based on our original guess of 80 participants, but pulling players for a drive as far as Tampa is for out-of-state players is really tough.). Even with top 32, we ran the entire finals as best two out of three. I believe, from memory, the only major upset was the number 32 player defeating the number 1 seed and that was do to the number 1 seed making a major mistake in the third game (his opinion - I didn't see the game). That being said, I really think that the proper number to cut to for a 67 person tournament is 16. I, however, hate it when T.O.'s change what they advertised in the middle of a tournament. -Mike Mullins _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From R.S.Giner-Sorolla at kent.ac.uk Tue Jun 1 10:34:21 2004 From: R.S.Giner-Sorolla at kent.ac.uk (Roger Giner-Sorolla) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:34:21 +0100 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Code of Bushido complaints In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't get it. "The samurai code was to live by honor, not rules" That would be news to the Asakura, Chosokabe, Hojo, and other Japanese samurai families, all of whom had very detailed rules for conduct (including hygiene!) as part of their code. See http://www.samurai-archives.com/code.html for excerpted examples. "Smaller final rounds are a conspiracy of elite players against the players who want to have fun" Let's consider a 7-1 qualification to a final round with 4 stages, as opposed to a 6-2 qualification to a final round with 5. In both systems you have to go 8-2 to reach the finals of 16. The first system takes less time, which is easier on the TO and the finalists. What's the difference? Both systems kick you out after the same number of losses. The difference is that in the first system, people know they will not reach the finals after 2 losses. They are then free to play the remaining rounds in the spirit of fun. It seems to me this system penalizes only those people who have a competitive mindset, yet are unhappy with the consequences of losing two early games and are disappointed to keep playing in the swiss knowing they will not go through. People who play for fun should not be fazed by this. "Rules against deck backing etc. are a conspiracy of elite players too" The minor dents in self-expression caused by giving up deck backing and playmats should be no impediment at all to a player who wants to show clan loyalty, or send some other message, in a creative way. Deck backing and playmats were restricted because they could interfere with the clear play of the game, for all players, not just elite ones -- in fact, you'd think that elite players would be less inconvenienced than new ones by these things. We all know that there are playmats that are just plain confusing to look at. Rather than legislate what constitutes a confusing playmat, it was decided just to not have them. "this game used to be about story, etc, etc" If anyone can point to any specific way in which the new Code of Bushido interferes with the interactive storyline nature of the CCG, please, let me know. "Having rules against cheating is paranoid and against the spirit of fun" Cheaters have been caught in L5R. Maybe in the "golden age" of L5R there were cheaters who were not caught. Who knows? I know I have more fun playing in a large tournament when I know there are enforced rules and sanctions against cheating. If you want to play L5R with people you can trust, play with people you do trust, at your friendly neighborhood store. AEG is not going to march jackbooted thugs out there to make sure you follow every little rule. -- Ono-san _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From andrew.tate at mchsi.com Tue Jun 1 10:34:51 2004 From: andrew.tate at mchsi.com (Shinjo Dun) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 09:34:51 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report References: <20040601135903.9844.qmail@web90107.mail.scd.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <016401c447e5$99a11490$1619d60c@Cyclops> > Except that you never take people that have only one > half their games. At Toronto they only took a hand > full of 4 and 3 players and Toronto was a fairly large > event. Of course I guess if you cut to perfect records > then there be no Swiss Curse. So what we end up with > is a set of elite all going to Gen con Seeded to Sat. > and the Local player will never get there because the > Cut is so small. > > ===== > Doji Hajime > But some Koteis HAVE taken as much as 47.7% of their field into single elims. As far as cutting to perfect records, then their would be no need for single elims. After swiss(assuming the correct number of rounds are ran) their should always be 1, and only 1, undefeated person. The simple fact is that the revised code allows for the top 12.6% to 25% of the field to make the cut. That's somewhere between 1 out of 8 and 1 out of 4. That's PLENTY of people. There's NEVER a need to have more than 1 out of 4 people in the single elim rounds. The reason swiss is ran, followed by single elims is to allow someone to have a bad game and still have a chance to make the finals, NOT to allow someone to go 4-3 finish 32nd in a field of 67 and make the cut. Quit whining about perceived eliteness and make yourself elite. The internet is a powerful tool. How do you think elite players got there? By working hard and playtesting. Experience. Just because you live in a small area or may not have a big playgroup doesn't mean you can't excel if you playtest extensively. There are 6 people who play in my local playgroup. 5 of us went to the IN Kotei. We had 2 people go 4-4, 2 5-3, and 1 6-2. 2 people in our group made the T32(out of 191). One of them lost in the T32 round, one finished T4. For a small group, that's not a bad showing. How'd we all manage to go at lease .500? By playtesting till we were blue in the face. Playing 3 days a week when people weren't working, and several nights a week also. Not just playing one clan. Over the course of playtesting, I had competitive decks built in Crane(3 different workable decks), Dragon(3 again), Lion(1), Rat(The Walls deck), Scorpion(1), and Unicorn(2). That's 11 different decks. And that's just what I built. Other people in our group had multiple decks from every other clan built. If it MIGHT work it was tested. To ensure that we all had decks that we a)wanted to play, b)were comfortable with, and c)were capable of winning against the field. One of our players wasn't able to playtest that much, so we did it for him. He went 4-4 with a deck he had never played before(Rat walls). Andrew Tate Shinjo Dun _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From DorilBard at aol.com Tue Jun 1 10:36:46 2004 From: DorilBard at aol.com (DorilBard at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 10:36:46 EDT Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report Message-ID: <1cc.22584bc5.2dedee7e@aol.com> In a message dated 6/1/04 6:59:50, daimyo_shi at yahoo.com writes: > --- Shinjo Dun wrote: > > --- >Shinjo Dun wrote: > > >> > >> > if you cut to 16 with a field of 67 people you >> > > are going to have a >> > > > riot >> > > > > on your hands. Swiss is not a elimination >> round, >> > > it what most >> > > > people go >> > > > > to Kotei for, I get to play against people >> i >> > > never played before is a >> > > > > large format. any one cutting to 16 at a >> event >> > > with more than forty >> > > > > people is asking for trouble. >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > In the new Code of Bushido they expect to cut >> to >> > > 16 when you have >> > > > over 100 people! >> > > > >> > > > That is insane! Why bother playing if you are >> > > perfect or out? >> > > > >> > > > I can see no logic in this (or a couple other >> > > things in the new Code, >> > > > to be frank) >> > > > >> > > > Rusty Priske >> > > > >> > > >> > > You've never played in an event with 150+ >> people, >> > > went 6-2, finished >> > > 9th-12th, and not made single elims have you? >> > > >> > > I have. Many times. >> > > >> > > I felt that at 5-3 at the IN Kotei I had NO >> business >> > > making the cut to >> > > single elims. I was 44th out of 194(191, 197, >> > > whatever the exact number >> > > was). That's about as good as 16th out of >> > > 67(actually its slightly better). >> > > There is NEVER any need for almost HALF(47%) of >> the >> > > field to make the cut to >> > > single elims. If 47% of the people in IN would >> have >> > > made the cut then 90 >> > > people would have been in. That's not a >> workable >> > > number, so it would have >> > > had to be either 64 or 128 for even pairings. >> If >> > > they had cut to either of >> > > those numbers it would have added at LEAST an >> hour >> > > to the event, making it >> > > end at almost 8:30 AM(I left at 7 after the last >> > > person in my local group >> > > was eliminated). >> > > >> > > Might as well just play 5 rounds of swiss and >> start >> > > single elims then and >> > > let everyone in if you're letting half the >> people >> > > in. >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > L5r-ccg mailing list >> > > L5r-ccg at alderac.com >> > > >> > >> >http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com >> > >> > Ok what is the point of someone going to their >> "local" >> > Kotei, who can't afford to just jump to from kotei >> to >> > kotei if the cut is going to be a 1/4 or less of >> the field? >> > >> > ===== >> > Doji Hajime >> > >> >> The same as those who can afford to jump from kotei >> to kotei. To qualify >> for Gencon. >> >> The cut shouldn't be about taking everyone who won >> half their games. It >> should be about taking the best players in the >> field. The top 25% is enough >> by FAR. >> >> Shinjo Dun >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> L5r-ccg mailing list >> L5r-ccg at alderac.com >> >http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > > >Except that you never take people that have only one >half their games. At Toronto they only took a hand >full of 4 and 3 players and Toronto was a fairly large >event. Of course I guess if you cut to perfect records >then there be no Swiss Curse. So what we end up with >is a set of elite all going to Gen con Seeded to Sat. >and the Local player will never get there because the >Cut is so small. > >===== >Doji Hajime Don't worry Hajime; there's always Europe. ;-) In seriousness, the days of scrub players lucking into their GenCon seeds are over. Teams like the Straw Dogs and Dynasty have enough resources to travel significant distances to play competitively in several Kotei. If there's a "weak" local environment in any of the regions, those teams will prey upon it. The only response those local regional environments have is to get better. We've already seen posts from Dan Tibbles explaining his choices for Swiss length and cut size based on participation. The main principles, as I understand them (and I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong. :) ) are these: 1) There should be enough rounds of swiss that only 1, maybe 2 perfect schedules should result. 2) The cut should be no worse than 1 full game above .500 i.e. 4-2 in six rounds, 5-2 in seven, 5-3 in eight, and so on. 3) One quarter to one third of the participants should make the cut, one third being the absolute maximum. There is enough anecdotal evidence from the Tibbles tournaments and non-Tibbles tourneys to say with some confidence that Tibbles is doing things the Right Way. L5R is finally popular enough to draw the sorts of gamers who become the 'elite' corps. As long as we don't forget the spirit of L5R, this is not a curse. >From what I've seen of the Straw Dogs and Dynasty (the Meat Patrol board aside), there is little danger of us as a community forgetting our spirit. It's what makes us give new players playsets of non-unique rares after they've been playing a couple months. It's what makes us go half-crazy and spend a chunk of our own cash so that a 1/1 Cavalry personality can be in the Legion of Heros. (Lucas Twyman, on behalf of Sanzo) It's what makes us back our decks in The Coward's Way and Mirumoto Tachiyama. Or Matsu Domotai and Domotai's Sacrifice. Or Otaku Kamoko and Shinjo's Breath. Or any one of the hundreds of of backing schemes that players have come up with in the years since the clear plastic sleeve. We may bitch and moan when AEG puts out another Humaliens or Initial D, because we know that that represents resources essentially thrown away. We bitch and moan louder when our favorite clan isn't doing well. We bitch and moan when the inane Infinite Combo of the Week is discovered. But for all that bitching and moaning, we're all still here, pouring effort and support into the L5R communities, both local and Internet. We love the game. We love the setting. We love the characters. As long as AEG doesn't forget us, I doubt we'll ever walk away. I know I don't intend to. Colin Busker-Cox Akodo Doril Lion Clan Omoidasu * Poet * Courtier * Gozoku Captain Shouldn't Have Taken That Tactical Action _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From geijhan at pandora.be Tue Jun 1 09:41:36 2004 From: geijhan at pandora.be (geijhan) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:41:36 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report References: <1a8.244d88e1.2dedda92@aol.com> Message-ID: <022301c447de$296ba9d0$2100a8c0@Upcbelgium.be> > However, given the new rules about dropping and cutting to single elims, > there really is no point in playing at most Kotei once you have two losses > (three for sure), because you are obviosly not one of the best. > If enough people take this attitude, and start dropping, what happens to > strength of schedule? > Moto Gahrie If people kept playing for fun only when they wouldn't make the cut with 3 losses, why would they suddenly stop playing if they can't make the cut with 2 losses? If your point is to have fun playing, no matter your result, why would that turn invalid if a certain result is now harder to achieve, as long as you get to play your games? As the tourney scene grows, so does the size of the tourneys and the need to handle tourneys swiftly increases, something which these rules help doing. Davy Claessens non-competitive player. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From mls14 at mac.com Tue Jun 1 11:28:22 2004 From: mls14 at mac.com (Matthew Smith) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 11:28:22 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report In-Reply-To: <016401c447e5$99a11490$1619d60c@Cyclops> References: <20040601135903.9844.qmail@web90107.mail.scd.yahoo.com> <016401c447e5$99a11490$1619d60c@Cyclops> Message-ID: <51359CF6-B3E0-11D8-9D0D-0003939CD690@mac.com> On Jun 1, 2004, at 10:34, Shinjo Dun wrote: > Just because you live in a small area or may not have a big playgroup > doesn't mean you can't excel if you playtest extensively. There are 6 > people who play in my local playgroup. 5 of us went to the IN Kotei. > We > had 2 people go 4-4, 2 5-3, and 1 6-2. 2 people in our group made the > T32(out of 191). One of them lost in the T32 round, one finished T4. > For a > small group, that's not a bad showing. How'd we all manage to go at > lease > .500? By playtesting till we were blue in the face. Playing 3 days a > week > when people weren't working, and several nights a week also. Not just > playing one clan. This type of behavior/mentality has dominated my local playgroup as well. No "theme" decks or multiplayer games ever see the light of day. Anybody want to play open? Nope. Anybody wanna try an alternate-rules tourney? No, I need to practice for . I try to make some more theme decks or other fun decks, but the only decks I should even bother making are decks that can win 1-on-1 games in 5-6 turns. Those are the only ones that will be noticed by people playtesting for the next big-prize tourney. I'm a competitive person, but it would be nice to play something other than 6-turn 1-on-1 deathmatches now and then. Of course, I won't complain too much because I'm very happy to have a local group of nice individuals who are happy to play L5R every week! Matthew P.S. - To my local playgroup: wait until you face my latest 6-turn winning deck of power! _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From chewbacc at terra.com.br Tue Jun 1 11:44:14 2004 From: chewbacc at terra.com.br (CHeWBaCCa) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 12:44:14 -0300 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Brazil Report Message-ID: <00b001c447ef$4b2b6ef0$99e9fea9@chewbacca> Hi, I don't know if some other player will send this so... I didn't make a full report cause i'm only fourth. 1 - Adrien Vesperini - Crane 2 - Carlos Eduardo Galhardo - Crane 3 - Gabriel Toledo - Phoenix 4 - Francisco de Assis - Phoenix 5 - Anderson Rosa - Mantis 6 - Davi Melo - Mantis 7 - Harlei Liguori - Unicorn 8 - Philipe Andrade - Phoenix 71 Players. Dont remeber what personality was choosed... _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From andrew.tate at mchsi.com Tue Jun 1 11:40:18 2004 From: andrew.tate at mchsi.com (Shinjo Dun) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 10:40:18 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report References: <20040601135903.9844.qmail@web90107.mail.scd.yahoo.com><016401c447e5$99a11490$1619d60c@Cyclops> <51359CF6-B3E0-11D8-9D0D-0003939CD690@mac.com> Message-ID: <017c01c447ee$bdd41d40$1619d60c@Cyclops> > On Jun 1, 2004, at 10:34, Shinjo Dun wrote: > > > Just because you live in a small area or may not have a big playgroup > > doesn't mean you can't excel if you playtest extensively. There are 6 > > people who play in my local playgroup. 5 of us went to the IN Kotei. > > We > > had 2 people go 4-4, 2 5-3, and 1 6-2. 2 people in our group made the > > T32(out of 191). One of them lost in the T32 round, one finished T4. > > For a > > small group, that's not a bad showing. How'd we all manage to go at > > lease > > .500? By playtesting till we were blue in the face. Playing 3 days a > > week > > when people weren't working, and several nights a week also. Not just > > playing one clan. > > This type of behavior/mentality has dominated my local playgroup as > well. No "theme" decks or multiplayer games ever see the light of day. Theme decks? Yeah. Actually we're doing a tourney with theme decks. > Anybody want to play open? Nope. No. Out of us, only 2 played before gold, and the other 4 started during the Gold era(with 1 starting at WoC). Anybody wanna try an > alternate-rules tourney? No, I need to practice for big tournament here>. See above. We're doing points based on who accomplishes their theme, then based on winning. I try to make some more theme decks or other fun > decks, but the only decks I should even bother making are decks that > can win 1-on-1 games in 5-6 turns. Those are the only ones that will > be noticed by people playtesting for the next big-prize tourney. I'm a > competitive person, but it would be nice to play something other than > 6-turn 1-on-1 deathmatches now and then. Of course, I won't complain > too much because I'm very happy to have a local group of nice > individuals who are happy to play L5R every week! > > Matthew > > P.S. - To my local playgroup: wait until you face my latest 6-turn > winning deck of power! > Hate to shatter your illusions, but one can play for fun and still be competitive. There's one CCG that figured out how to be successful several years ago. If it ain't broke.... Andrew Tate Shinjo Dun _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From cloak72 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 1 12:10:03 2004 From: cloak72 at yahoo.com (Robert Van Natter) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 09:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Rules for 28 May 2004 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040601161003.66018.qmail@web41812.mail.yahoo.com> Ummmm... That still wouldn't be a problem, as the CCG Golden Rule would kick in. --- Jimmy Repine wrote: > > > i don't have a rulebook on hand, but is it legal > to > > include personalities > > > that will not join you faction in your dynasty > deck? > > unless there's a > > > screw-ball exception, i assume they are. > > > > There is no rule on file forbidding it. > > I'd hope not, there is a personality that > specifically allows you to bring > them into play (Togashi Yokuni exp3) > > Jimmy Repine > Hitomi Yamesh > Dragon Clan Tattooed Jedi Master > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com ===== Hiruma Ayslyn Crab Clan Professional Medler Scout Samurai Hero "We are all just Samurai brother, but when we stand together, we are the Crab" "Pain shared is pain divided; joy shared is joy multiplied" Everything I needed to know, I learned from drinking at Callahan's __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From cloak72 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 1 12:10:23 2004 From: cloak72 at yahoo.com (Robert Van Natter) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 09:10:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Rules for 28 May 2004 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040601161023.18783.qmail@web41806.mail.yahoo.com> Ummmm... That still wouldn't be a problem, as the CCG Golden Rule would kick in. --- Jimmy Repine wrote: > > > i don't have a rulebook on hand, but is it legal > to > > include personalities > > > that will not join you faction in your dynasty > deck? > > unless there's a > > > screw-ball exception, i assume they are. > > > > There is no rule on file forbidding it. > > I'd hope not, there is a personality that > specifically allows you to bring > them into play (Togashi Yokuni exp3) > > Jimmy Repine > Hitomi Yamesh > Dragon Clan Tattooed Jedi Master > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com ===== Hiruma Ayslyn Crab Clan Professional Medler Scout Samurai Hero "We are all just Samurai brother, but when we stand together, we are the Crab" "Pain shared is pain divided; joy shared is joy multiplied" Everything I needed to know, I learned from drinking at Callahan's __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From R.S.Giner-Sorolla at kent.ac.uk Tue Jun 1 12:12:09 2004 From: R.S.Giner-Sorolla at kent.ac.uk (Roger Giner-Sorolla) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 17:12:09 +0100 Subject: [L5R-CCG] RE: competitive vs. causal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Creating Elites is bad for any game, period! always > has, always will be. I disagree. Take a look at chess, for example. People manage to play it in a wide variety of settings without worrying about who the local Grandmaster is. And do you have any support for the notion that a longer swiss and shorter elims is a way to "create" an elite? I think you are focusing on the experience of the 4-3 or 5-2 player who does not advance in the swiss, and would have in a field with a lower finals threshold. But, what you forget here is that the elimination rounds are thereby made longer, giving the "elite" players one more chance to knock out the "casual" or "local" players. Especially if they are run best 2 out of 3. Basically, if we leave this issue aside, and a number of other irrelevant issues like deck backing that somehow have become connected to this "elite" concept, there's this basic resentment that I see under a lot of these arguments: * L5R used to be a wacky, freewheeling game with free resources, god events, battle-ending and game-winning actions, and consequently, high draw dependency. * AEG has steadily been cutting down these elements to increase interactivity and the role of skill in the game. * This is bad because it means skilled players who train a lot win more games on the basis of their skill and training. * This gets to their head and makes them egomaniac and insufferable (traits which in my experience are not exclusively distributed among any one style of L5R player) * This also cuts down on the storyline and flavor aspects of L5R (another fallacy; having a great costume or theme deck has never been sufficient to win games; people do this regardless of their ability to win, and I hope they continue to do so) On the flip-side of this, though, I could ask what is the point of having tournaments if they are not in some way a test of skill? -- Ono-san _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From chimera_reader at hotmail.com Tue Jun 1 12:14:14 2004 From: chimera_reader at hotmail.com (Matt Snyder) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 11:14:14 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Qs on two cards cont'd Message-ID: Thanks for the explanations on Come One at a Time and Hiruma Dojo. Unfortunately, I have more questions. You said that COAT can send the entire army home. Can it do so against one defender without risking challenges? Doesn?t the army have to go home one action at a time? The rest, I understood. Thanks! As for Hiruma Dojo, I?m still confused. Say I have a 6 gold samurai personality of my faction. I choose to reduce its cost by 2 instead of pay full gold for the honor gain. Now, he costs 4 gold to play. I have only Hiruma Dojo unbowed as a source of gold. If I bow Hiruma Dojo as a reaction, I could ?make? 4 gold. But, timing-wise, how can I ?pay? 4 gold from nothing at all, then react to actually produce thye 4 gold? This is the exact situation I can?t figure out. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From ryuu at uol.com.br Tue Jun 1 12:33:06 2004 From: ryuu at uol.com.br (Ryu) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 13:33:06 -0300 Subject: RES: [L5R-CCG] Brazil Report In-Reply-To: <00b001c447ef$4b2b6ef0$99e9fea9@chewbacca> Message-ID: THE PERSONALITY CHOSEN WAS DOJI YOSAI. I ASKED HIM TO CHOOSE TWO OTHER: 1) DOJI YOSAI 2) ASAHINA KIMITA 3) KAKITA ARITEKO SEE YA Shiba Ryuu -----Mensagem original----- De: L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com [mailto:L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com]Em nome de CHeWBaCCa Enviada em: ter?a-feira, 1 de junho de 2004 12:44 Para: L5r-ccg at alderac.com Assunto: [L5R-CCG] Brazil Report Hi, I don't know if some other player will send this so... I didn't make a full report cause i'm only fourth. 1 - Adrien Vesperini - Crane 2 - Carlos Eduardo Galhardo - Crane 3 - Gabriel Toledo - Phoenix 4 - Francisco de Assis - Phoenix 5 - Anderson Rosa - Mantis 6 - Davi Melo - Mantis 7 - Harlei Liguori - Unicorn 8 - Philipe Andrade - Phoenix 71 Players. Dont remeber what personality was choosed... _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From daidojiling at yahoo.com Tue Jun 1 12:47:45 2004 From: daidojiling at yahoo.com (Ling) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 09:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report In-Reply-To: <1cc.22584bc5.2dedee7e@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040601164745.99481.qmail@web10910.mail.yahoo.com> --- DorilBard at aol.com wrote: > In seriousness, the days of scrub players lucking into their GenCon > seeds are > over. Teams like the Straw Dogs and Dynasty have enough resources to > travel > significant distances to play competitively in several Kotei. If there's > a > "weak" local environment in any of the regions, those teams will prey > upon it. The > only response those local regional environments have is to get better. Thanks for the top billing, in your face Flores! ===== Electronically Yours, Ling Crane Clan Smartypants * Straw Dog #L5R Social Director _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From oregano666 at hotmail.com Tue Jun 1 13:11:59 2004 From: oregano666 at hotmail.com (Mad Mokujin) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 13:11:59 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] RE: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 12, Issue 3 Message-ID: If you think the Meat Patrol board is lacking in spirit, you are obviously one of the people we are making fun of. We love the game as much as anyone else, we just don't do the regular tip-toe dance that many others do. The actual Meat Patrol members are always willing to help new players out, whether it is deck advice, giving away (good) cards to start them off, and all of the other "honorable" actions people tout as making themselves "holier than thou". Bottom line: Meat Patrol is about playing L5R, being honest, and having fun, whether you want to do it "in character" or as an a-hole is up to the individual. Mad Mokujin Meat Patrol http://meatpatrol.org >------------------------------ > >Message: 6 >Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 10:36:46 EDT >From: DorilBard at aol.com >Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion > Report >To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com >Message-ID: <1cc.22584bc5.2dedee7e at aol.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >L5R is finally popular enough to draw the sorts of gamers who become the >'elite' corps. As long as we don't forget the spirit of L5R, this is not a >curse. > >From what I've seen of the Straw Dogs and Dynasty (the Meat Patrol board >aside), there is little danger of us as a community forgetting our spirit. > >Colin Busker-Cox > >Akodo Doril >Lion Clan Omoidasu * Poet * Courtier * Gozoku >Captain Shouldn't Have Taken That Tactical Action > _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From mls14 at mac.com Tue Jun 1 13:51:47 2004 From: mls14 at mac.com (Matthew Smith) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 13:51:47 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report In-Reply-To: <017c01c447ee$bdd41d40$1619d60c@Cyclops> References: <20040601135903.9844.qmail@web90107.mail.scd.yahoo.com> <016401c447e5$99a11490$1619d60c@Cyclops> <51359CF6-B3E0-11D8-9D0D-0003939CD690@mac.com> <017c01c447ee$bdd41d40$1619d60c@Cyclops> Message-ID: <5A5E80C6-B3F4-11D8-BF27-0003939CD690@mac.com> On Jun 1, 2004, at 11:40, Shinjo Dun wrote: >> No "theme" decks or multiplayer games ever see the light of day. > > Theme decks? Yeah. Actually we're doing a tourney with theme decks. > >> Anybody want to play open? Nope. > > No. Out of us, only 2 played before gold, and the other 4 started > during > the Gold era(with 1 starting at WoC). > > Anybody wanna try an >> alternate-rules tourney? No, I need to practice for > big tournament here>. > > See above. We're doing points based on who accomplishes their theme, > then > based on winning. I was commenting on my own playgroup instead of yours, so your rebuttal seems quite odd to me. > Hate to shatter your illusions, but one can play for fun and still be > competitive. There's one CCG that figured out how to be successful > several > years ago. If it ain't broke.... If I wasn't having fun, I wouldn't still be playing. There are no illusions to shatter; I speak from experience. I used to play a lot more multiplayer and that I ended up seeing a lot more cards and a lot more fun ideas that were just plain impossible to pull off, much less attempt with 1-on-1 competitive games. So although I'm having plenty of fun now, I think things were *more* fun before everything became about playtesting in an attempt to be a kotei winner. On the other hand, we have more people showing up now, so that makes me happy, and I've had the chance to play with some newer players as well. In addition, I've seen some astoundingly good deck ideas, including a certain enlightenment deck that is scarily effective. Maybe if I personally organize a multiplayer game or two(after kotei season) or come up with a "theme" tournament, people will be open to it... who knows? Matthew _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From isawaletomo at juno.com Tue Jun 1 15:04:37 2004 From: isawaletomo at juno.com (Lee T Boswell) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 13:04:37 -0600 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Staff Tournament! Message-ID: <20040601.130456.-229311.31.isawaletomo@juno.com> This is an announcement of the first ever [to my knowledge] Staff Tournament! The winner and second place player's will each receive a Staff as a prize. The first player to achieve an Enlightenment victory will also receive a Staff. This is in acknowledgment of the Path of Enlightenment tournaments! If the Path of Enlightenment; Book of Air comes in, this will be a Book of Air tournament, otherwise it will be a Diamond Legal Tournament, with the single non-legal Promo card To Start A Dark Path being legal. The Tournament will be on Sunday, July 4th, with Sign-in at noon, starting as close to 12:30 as we can! Cost is $5 Canadian. Place is Wizard's Comics and Collectibles in Edmonton, AB, Canada. E-mail me if you need directions. There will be a apecial participation prize for all players. Space is limited, so show up early! Isawa Letomo Phoenix clan Librarian-Shugenja Lee Boswell ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From ipw4 at apci.net Tue Jun 1 15:00:06 2004 From: ipw4 at apci.net (Jon & Beth Bancroft) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 14:00:06 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Region 7 Kotei Reminder Message-ID: <003901c4480a$a781f000$8464adce@0016260312> Hi All, Region 7 Kotei is this Saturday June 5, 2004 at DieCon 4. If you are not already Pre-registered for the Kotei you can register beginning Friday June 4 From noon until 10pm and on Saturday June 5 from 8am until 10pm. Region 7 Kotei will begin at 10am Saturday June 5 until 11:30pm. At least six rounds of swiss to final 32. Hidden City will be allowed at Region 7 Kotei. Kotei Fee: $25 Includes DieCon Weekend Until Sat. Jon Bancroft Region 7 TO _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From mwhitman2 at comcast.net Tue Jun 1 15:14:45 2004 From: mwhitman2 at comcast.net (mwhitman2 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 19:14:45 +0000 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report Message-ID: <060120041914.22997.40BCD5A500009275000059D52200735834CD020E039B07089903@comcast.net> I believe the cut should have been to 16 players as well, but You have to stick with your word! The word was the top 32 players. I was placed 12th out of 67 after the cut and lost 2 out of 3 games. Overall the Florida Kotei was a blast!! Please bring back the actors for next years event. I enjoyed every minute of it. GREAT JOB GUYS! Monroe > --- Shinjo Dun wrote: > > --- > Shinjo Dun wrote: > > > > > > > > if you cut to 16 with a field of 67 people you > > > > are going to have a > > > > > riot > > > > > > on your hands. Swiss is not a elimination > > round, > > > > it what most > > > > > people go > > > > > > to Kotei for, I get to play against people > > i > > > > never played before is a > > > > > > large format. any one cutting to 16 at a > > event > > > > with more than forty > > > > > > people is asking for trouble. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the new Code of Bushido they expect to cut > > to > > > > 16 when you have > > > > > over 100 people! > > > > > > > > > > That is insane! Why bother playing if you are > > > > perfect or out? > > > > > > > > > > I can see no logic in this (or a couple other > > > > things in the new Code, > > > > > to be frank) > > > > > > > > > > Rusty Priske > > > > > > > > > > > > > You've never played in an event with 150+ > > people, > > > > went 6-2, finished > > > > 9th-12th, and not made single elims have you? > > > > > > > > I have. Many times. > > > > > > > > I felt that at 5-3 at the IN Kotei I had NO > > business > > > > making the cut to > > > > single elims. I was 44th out of 194(191, 197, > > > > whatever the exact number > > > > was). That's about as good as 16th out of > > > > 67(actually its slightly better). > > > > There is NEVER any need for almost HALF(47%) of > > the > > > > field to make the cut to > > > > single elims. If 47% of the people in IN would > > have > > > > made the cut then 90 > > > > people would have been in. That's not a > > workable > > > > number, so it would have > > > > had to be either 64 or 128 for even pairings. > > If > > > > they had cut to either of > > > > those numbers it would have added at LEAST an > > hour > > > > to the event, making it > > > > end at almost 8:30 AM(I left at 7 after the last > > > > person in my local group > > > > was eliminated). > > > > > > > > Might as well just play 5 rounds of swiss and > > start > > > > single elims then and > > > > let everyone in if you're letting half the > > people > > > > in. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > L5r-ccg mailing list > > > > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > > > > > > > > > > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > > > > > > Ok what is the point of someone going to their > > "local" > > > Kotei, who can't afford to just jump to from kotei > > to > > > kotei if the cut is going to be a 1/4 or less of > > the field? > > > > > > ===== > > > Doji Hajime > > > > > > > The same as those who can afford to jump from kotei > > to kotei. To qualify > > for Gencon. > > > > The cut shouldn't be about taking everyone who won > > half their games. It > > should be about taking the best players in the > > field. The top 25% is enough > > by FAR. > > > > Shinjo Dun > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > L5r-ccg mailing list > > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > > > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > > > Except that you never take people that have only one > half their games. At Toronto they only took a hand > full of 4 and 3 players and Toronto was a fairly large > event. Of course I guess if you cut to perfect records > then there be no Swiss Curse. So what we end up with > is a set of elite all going to Gen con Seeded to Sat. > and the Local player will never get there because the > Cut is so small. > > ===== > Doji Hajime > > Crane Clan Iaijutsu master * Samurai * Double Chi * Unique * Experienced * Jade > Hand > > "If you are loyal to your lord, you should lie, murder, steal, and cheat for > him. If you rather commit Seppaku than do those things how loyal are you > really?" Soshi Hakiko > > Third ranked Sensei in the Kakita Iaijutsu Academy > > In morning of Toturi II > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Billy_Vaughn at rmic.com Tue Jun 1 15:20:07 2004 From: Billy_Vaughn at rmic.com (Billy Vaughn) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:20:07 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Qs on two cards cont'd Message-ID: <7138A139BE637B499F20D7C6879858C90CCA832C@hera.corp.rmic.com> When you bow Hiruma Dojo to use as a source of gold for a samurai it pays four gold. Lowering the gold cost and paying 4 gold is basically the same thing. If you are paying cheap for a 6GC samurai. You bow the dojo and lower his gold cost by 4, now he comes in at 0 cost to you on the cheap. >> As for Hiruma Dojo, I'm still confused. Say I have a 6 gold samurai personality of my faction. I choose to reduce its cost by 2 instead of pay full gold for the honor gain. Now, he costs 4 gold to play. I have only Hiruma Dojo unbowed as a source of gold. If I bow Hiruma Dojo as a reaction, I could "make" 4 gold. But, timing-wise, how can I "pay" 4 gold from nothing at all, then react to actually produce thye 4 gold? This is the exact situation I can't figure out. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this e-mail and delete this e-mail from your system. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From kschafer at nazarenefoundation.org Tue Jun 1 15:33:21 2004 From: kschafer at nazarenefoundation.org (Kevin Schafer) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 14:33:21 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Qs on two cards cont'd In-Reply-To: <7138A139BE637B499F20D7C6879858C90CCA832C@hera.corp.rmic.com> Message-ID: <20040601193257.8514743F24@omta14.mta.everyone.net> No it does not pay 4 gold. It lowers a gold cost by 4. This is different. The thing to remember is that you do not have to produce gold to be "paying a gold cost" Any time you are trying to meet the gold cost of a card you are paying a gold cost, even if that cost is 0 or you are producing no gold. Kevin Schafer > -----Original Message----- > From: L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com [mailto:L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com] On > Behalf Of Billy Vaughn > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 2:20 PM > To: 'L5r-ccg at alderac.com' > Subject: RE: [L5R-CCG] Qs on two cards cont'd > > When you bow Hiruma Dojo to use as a source of gold for a samurai it pays > four gold. Lowering the gold cost and paying 4 gold is basically the same > thing. If you are paying cheap for a 6GC samurai. You bow the dojo and > lower > his gold cost by 4, now he comes in at 0 cost to you on the cheap. > > >> > > As for Hiruma Dojo, I'm still confused. > > Say I have a 6 gold samurai personality of my faction. I choose to reduce > its cost by 2 instead of pay full gold for the honor gain. Now, he costs 4 > gold to play. I have only Hiruma Dojo unbowed as a source of gold. > > If I bow Hiruma Dojo as a reaction, I could "make" 4 gold. But, timing- > wise, > > how can I "pay" 4 gold from nothing at all, then react to actually produce > thye 4 gold? This is the exact situation I can't figure out. > > > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r- > ccg_alderac.com > > This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is > addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or > the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, > distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you > have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by > replying to the sender of this e-mail and delete this e-mail from your > system. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From mls14 at mac.com Tue Jun 1 15:36:31 2004 From: mls14 at mac.com (Matthew Smith) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:36:31 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Qs on two cards cont'd In-Reply-To: <7138A139BE637B499F20D7C6879858C90CCA832C@hera.corp.rmic.com> References: <7138A139BE637B499F20D7C6879858C90CCA832C@hera.corp.rmic.com> Message-ID: On Jun 1, 2004, at 15:20, Billy Vaughn wrote: > As for Hiruma Dojo, I'm still confused. > > Say I have a 6 gold samurai personality of my faction. I choose to > reduce > its cost by 2 instead of pay full gold for the honor gain. Now, he > costs 4 > gold to play. I have only Hiruma Dojo unbowed as a source of gold. > > If I bow Hiruma Dojo as a reaction, I could "make" 4 gold. But, > timing-wise, > > how can I "pay" 4 gold from nothing at all, then react to actually > produce > thye 4 gold? This is the exact situation I can't figure out. You don't need to react to the production of gold. You simply lower the gold cost as a reaction to playing the samurai. Compare that to a card like city of gold that is a reaction to bowing a holding for gold. They are two different kinds of reactions. Matthew _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From duchon.philippe at free.fr Tue Jun 1 15:28:08 2004 From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 21:28:08 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] New Code of Bushido / Sick Sad Game In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040601104358.02ebbc40@pop.free.fr> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040601104358.02ebbc40@pop.free.fr> Message-ID: <20040601212808.7c1a28c5.duchon.philippe@free.fr> On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 10:50:20 +0200 Montesquieu wrote: > > The debate about deckbacking was harsh on the Swift Sword forum. I can > see that the top players have won. Wow. And where is the l5r spirit ? Oh > yes, in the title, there is the word "bushido". Eh... that's all. Me, I'm more interested by the two sentences: | Cards in a player's decks may not be used for deck backing purposes, | regardless of the version of the card. | | Decks may not be backed with tournament legal cards, regardless of the | set they are from. Now, I cannot figure a situation where the first sentence would add any restrictions that the second doesn't add in all by itself... > > Great job, guys. Continue to turn "a game with a great universe" in "a > game". It's a game, first. Imposing strict rules at sanctioned tournaments doesn't lessen the universe in any way. While I don't agree with the strictness of some of these rules, I do know that not everything is perfect in the L5R community. Believe it or not, some people will cheat. Sure, I wouldn't, and you wouldn't - but it's better for both of us if there are rules that make it a tiny bit harder for us to cheat. -- Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From duchon.philippe at free.fr Tue Jun 1 15:39:08 2004 From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 21:39:08 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report In-Reply-To: <20040601121619.63253.qmail@web90109.mail.scd.yahoo.com> References: <00c801c4477f$5aa66710$1619d60c@Cyclops> <20040601121619.63253.qmail@web90109.mail.scd.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040601213908.241e5899.duchon.philippe@free.fr> On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 08:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Doji Hajime wrote: > > Ok what is the point of someone going to their "local" > Kotei, who can't afford to just jump to from kotei to > kotei if the cut is going to be a 1/4 or less of the field? > The cut at 1/4 isn't that small, I'd say. 1/8 is a bit small, but 1/4 is OK. Not to say that it should always be smaller than that, but I'd rather have it be between 1/6 and 1/3 (there must be a ratio of two between the minimum and the maximum, because the fractional part of log_2(N) might be anything), than between 1/2 and 1/4. At the Southern France Kotei, there were 174 participants, with a top 32 - that's roughly between 1/5 and 1/6. Top 64 would have been too many, I'd say. (Of course, one could run, say, a top 48, with several rounds of Swiss to separate a top 16 from that, but there is no perfect scheme in a reasonable number of rounds to do that: if you do, you will have to cut through a bracket for the selection, and that's not good. At the Southern France Kotei, they did a top 32 cut, then 3 rounds of Swiss to go from top 32 to top 16 - the deal was, win 2 games or more and you're in; but this was a 2-day affair) -- Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Sphynx at aol.com Tue Jun 1 15:43:09 2004 From: Sphynx at aol.com (Sphynx at aol.com) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 15:43:09 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Odd Tourney Situation Message-ID: <23872ED2.3775788B.000547D6@aol.com> So at a tournament this weekend, a buddy of mine told me of the following situation (note that this is coming from "Al's" side and I don't have any other witnesses to the game). I'll use the names Al and Bob...: Al was in a game playing up against a Shadowlands PK deck (played by Bob). Throughout the game, the Shadowlands player was asking about force counts and such. However, at a key time in a key battle he didn't do so... In the key battle, the shadowlands player passed as did Al, at which point Al said "ok, I have 6 force to your 5, I win." Bob said "6? I thought you only had 4. I would have used commanding favor to drop that follower's force to zero." Al said "Well, unfortunately, since this is a clutch moment in the game, I'm not going to let you take that back." Bob calls over a judge and says to the judge "I said: I'm up by 1 force so I pass. He passed and then claims he's up by 1." Al says, "He may have said he was up by 1 in his head, but he never said it out loud and I don't have to remind him of the force." The judge says "I'm ruling in favor of Bob." Al loses his army. He continues the game at a serious disadvantage and manages to stave off the shadowlands player for a bit longer and then time is called. Al says "Well, time is called and there's no way I'm going to concede this game. I'll take the tie. Nothing personal, but taking the tie is better for me than giving you the win." Al begins to pack up his cards. Bob calls the judge over. The judge asks Al why he is picking up his cards. Al says again "Time was called, I refuse to concede, therefore unless he concedes to me it's a tie." The judge says he had no right to pick up the cards, so he's giving the win to Al. Here are my questions: 1) Should a judge make a decision based on one player's word over another? 2) If a game goes to time, and the players refuse to concede, is it automatically a tie or does the judge have a right to say "You lose" to one of the players? 3) Is Al obligated to tell his opponent his force total if the opponent doesn't ask? (Note that I didn't say "should tell him to be sportsmanlike".) 4) Other thoughts? Ookami Koan Controversy R Us _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From duchon.philippe at free.fr Tue Jun 1 15:45:48 2004 From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 21:45:48 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report In-Reply-To: <014401c447dc$d43f6c40$1619d60c@Cyclops> References: <1a8.244d88e1.2dedda92@aol.com> <014401c447dc$d43f6c40$1619d60c@Cyclops> Message-ID: <20040601214548.39c63cdb.duchon.philippe@free.fr> On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 08:32:04 -0500 "Shinjo Dun" wrote: > > If its done manually, it depends on the method the person doing the > tiebreakers uses, although I really can't imagine ANY sane TO using > anything other than some pairings program for tourneys. DCIr is really > good, and really easy to use. If it ain't broke........... I was surprised to not see any more details in the new Code of Bushido about how to select the top X for the cut; basically, it doesn't say how to rank players within the same number-of-victories bracket. What I usually use is "total number of points of opponents" first, then "total number of points of defeated opponents", but I'm not even sure this is supposed to be right. And I'm not using DCI Reporter, because I don't want to bring a laptop to our (small) tournaments; I've got this program on my Palm, but I'm not 100% happy with it, so half the time I do this by hand (that's with about 20 players, no more). -- Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From andrew.tate at mchsi.com Tue Jun 1 15:54:23 2004 From: andrew.tate at mchsi.com (Shinjo Dun) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 14:54:23 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Odd Tourney Situation References: <23872ED2.3775788B.000547D6@aol.com> Message-ID: <022501c44812$3ceddfd0$1619d60c@Cyclops> > Here are my questions: > 1) Should a judge make a decision based on one player's word over another? The judge should have tried to establish the correct force totals and whoevers army should have died should have died. > > 2) If a game goes to time, and the players refuse to concede, is it automatically a tie or does the judge have a right to say "You lose" to one of the players? No. If a game goes to time its a draw unless one player concedes to another. > 3) Is Al obligated to tell his opponent his force total if the opponent doesn't ask? (Note that I didn't say "should tell him to be sportsmanlike".) No. Your opponent asks, you tell him. If I'm not sure I normally ask "You're at 10, correct?" to make sure I'm right before passing. The SLH player should have asked before passing. > 4) Other thoughts? Are you sure this was an L5R tourney? I've seen similar judging stupidity in Indianapolis M:tG PTQs. Based on what you said, the SLH player should have lost the initial battle, and when the game went to time it should have been a draw. > Ookami Koan > Controversy R Us Shinjo Dun _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From duchon.philippe at free.fr Tue Jun 1 15:54:39 2004 From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 21:54:39 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Code of Bushido complaints In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040601215439.3956d292.duchon.philippe@free.fr> On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:34:21 +0100 "Roger Giner-Sorolla" wrote: > > "Rules against deck backing etc. are a conspiracy of elite players too" > > The minor dents in self-expression caused by giving up deck backing and > playmats should be no impediment at all to a player who wants to show > clan loyalty, or send some other message, in a creative way. Deck > backing and playmats were restricted because they could interfere with > the clear play of the game, for all players, not just elite ones -- in > fact, you'd think that elite players would be less inconvenienced than > new ones by these things. We all know that there are playmats that are > just plain confusing to look at. Rather than legislate what constitutes > a confusing playmat, it was decided just to not have them. Well, the rules, as set out, are a bit strict. Something like "deck backing and playmats are tolerated, but if one player requests that they be removed, the opponent has to comply" would be nice, and would mostly de facto forbid over-confusing deck backs and playmats. I never use a playmat, but I can see where a player would like some small ceremonial to his games; if the mat is neutral enough, where's the harm? Also, I have a backing project of using Traitor's Grove (not DE legal) and Bayushi Ryu (DE legal) to back a (Scorpion, what do you think?) deck. According to the new Code, I cannot use Ryu until he goes out of the environment - even though I wouldn't use him in the deck. Of course, I'd be ready to remove the backs if my opponent required it of me, but by the very fact that it's spelled out so strictly in the Code, I suspect TOs (other than me) will enforce this. -- Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From ornatov at hotmail.com Tue Jun 1 16:00:03 2004 From: ornatov at hotmail.com (Andrew Ornatov) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 13:00:03 -0700 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Odd Tourney Situation Message-ID: >Here are my questions: >1) Should a judge make a decision based on one player's word over another? Depending on previous tournament history - yes and no. This is called "failure to agree on reality" and if one person has a history of such infractions in the current tournament, the judge should give preference to the other player (but only if the stories of the players are completely opposite of each other, and only if the conflict cannot be resolved any other way). If both players are clean - no, absolutely not. >2) If a game goes to time, and the players refuse to concede, is it >automatically a tie or does the >judge have a right to say "You lose" to >one of the players? The head judge has the right to do anything. The head judge is the ultimate authority, and can (not saying they should) force a player to lose at any point in the tournament. Otherwise it would be difficult to hand out game losses as penalties... Picking up your cards prior to either 1) mutual agreement between the players on the result of the game or 2)victory on the part of one player, is generally considered a sign of conceding, tho... However, if the game goes to time, in my opinion, once the current turn is finished, the game is a tie, without any input from the players. If one of them is willing to concede to the other, this has to be done before the turn is over. >3) Is Al obligated to tell his opponent his force total if the opponent >doesn't ask? (Note that I >didn't say "should tell him to be >sportsmanlike".) No. Nor is Al obligated to tell the truth about his own force. Lying is bad sportsmanship, and should result in a warning/game loss/DQ (depending on severity and frequency of the offence) but no player is under the obligation to tell the truth to their opponents. If the opponent didn't ask Al about his force, it's his problem, not Al's. Al is fully in the right to hold his opponent to his actions based on false assumptions. Lying/withholding the truth about public information is not against the rules. It IS the responsibility of both players to maintain a legal state of the game - no personalities with 0 chi in play, no Kolat Mastering Clan Champs; it is NOT the responsibility of the players to inform the opponent of their misplays, if they are not breaking the rules of the game. Andrew _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From andrew.tate at mchsi.com Tue Jun 1 16:02:28 2004 From: andrew.tate at mchsi.com (Shinjo Dun) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:02:28 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report References: <1a8.244d88e1.2dedda92@aol.com><014401c447dc$d43f6c40$1619d60c@Cyclops> <20040601214548.39c63cdb.duchon.philippe@free.fr> Message-ID: <022f01c44813$5dd0f3d0$1619d60c@Cyclops> > I was surprised to not see any more details in the new Code of Bushido > about how to select the top X for the cut; basically, it doesn't say > how to rank players within the same number-of-victories bracket. > > What I usually use is "total number of points of opponents" first, > then "total number of points of defeated opponents", but I'm not even > sure this is supposed to be right. And I'm not using DCI Reporter, > because I don't want to bring a laptop to our (small) tournaments; > I've got this program on my Palm, but I'm not 100% happy with it, so > half the time I do this by hand (that's with about 20 players, no > more). > > -- > > Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr > Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek > Assuming no drops, the 2nd method will get you the same standings as Opponents Match Win %. Doing by hand isn't an issue in a 20 person tourney also. Normally you'd only have a few to check. I was referring more to a 60 or 70 person event where manual pairings/tiebreakers is insane. Shinjo Dun _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From mirumoto_kentei at yahoo.com Tue Jun 1 16:08:06 2004 From: mirumoto_kentei at yahoo.com (Mirumoto Kentei) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 13:08:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] [Rules] More fun with Danjuro and others... In-Reply-To: <20040530190114.84521.qmail@web90004.mail.scd.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040601200806.46923.qmail@web50004.mail.yahoo.com> Just wanted to stick my nose in and mention Akodo Rokuro's bow negation effect, as it was part of the last round of UL talks. Specifically, I choose to bow, but negate it w/AR, so I don't gain honor (I didn't bow), but I'm not dishonored either (I didn't choose the "not bow" path). Not sure that the two relate, but thought I'd bring it up. Martin Lund wrote:Comments Below: --- Karl Warsop wrote: > > I'm curious if Danjuro can redirect an UL targetting > one of your shugenja to himself. He is a legal > target when the shugenja is targeted > (assuming he is unbowed) but by the time it hits him > he's bowed and thus illegal. [MARTY] Going by past rulings on the subject ([L5R-CCG] Rules for 13 November 2003 by Zen), Danjuro only needs be a legal target when you first go to play his redirection ability. His subsequent bowing will not affect anything. After all, back in Gold when personalities couldn't be targeted while bowed, you could self-target with a bowing ability. He'll redirect the Unrequited, but then you won't be able to choose to bow him. He'll automatically get sent down the "do not bow, dishonor, lose honor equal to Personal Honor" path of Unrequited Love unless you somehow unbow him before effects resolve. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From duchon.philippe at free.fr Tue Jun 1 16:00:20 2004 From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 22:00:20 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report In-Reply-To: <016401c447e5$99a11490$1619d60c@Cyclops> References: <20040601135903.9844.qmail@web90107.mail.scd.yahoo.com> <016401c447e5$99a11490$1619d60c@Cyclops> Message-ID: <20040601220020.11157e12.duchon.philippe@free.fr> On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 09:34:51 -0500 "Shinjo Dun" wrote: > > As far as cutting to perfect records, then their would be no need for > single elims. After swiss(assuming the correct number of rounds are > ran) their should always be 1, and only 1, undefeated person. That's true, but unless the number of participants is a perfect power of 2, or one fewer than a power of 2, you cannot be sure how many rounds that will take (it will always be the base 2 logarithm of the number of players, but you'd have to round that either up or down, depending on how well paired down players do). Not every tournament will have a number of participants among 1,2,3,4,7,8,15,16,31,32,63,64,... -- Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jst1vaughn at mindspring.com Tue Jun 1 16:23:31 2004 From: jst1vaughn at mindspring.com (Vaughn Derderian) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 16:23:31 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report In-Reply-To: <20040601123204.71026.qmail@web90104.mail.scd.yahoo.com> References: <20040601123204.71026.qmail@web90104.mail.scd.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40BCE5C3.1080803@mindspring.com> Doji Hajime wrote: > I have to completely agree with Rusty here since we > when to Kotei with the same kind of ideas. I lose my > first two games at the Toronto Kotei, cutting to a top > 16, I would have been already eliminated, what fun > would that be. I don't think the cut number in the new > code are very good. it too easy for very good player > that travel around and take most of the top spots > leaving the local players out of their own Kotei. I'm sorry, I thought that the purpose of a tournament was to find the best player with the best deck on that given day. In my opinion, pulling fewer people from Swiss into the elimination rounds helps accomplish that goal, so it's a good thing. If tournaments are supposed to have some other goal, something that I'm missing, please feel free to let me know. -- Vaughn * The Random Ninja _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From aelfwin at credifarma.net Tue Jun 1 16:31:49 2004 From: aelfwin at credifarma.net (Vladimir Orellana) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 14:31:49 -0600 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Code of Bushido question: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40BCE7B5.1000707@credifarma.net> The code of Bushido Reads on Page 3: Diamond Storyline The following cards are legal: ? Any card printed with a Diamond bug in the lower left corner, plus all previous printings of these cards. ? Personalities who are the antecedent, or who have the same antecedent, as a Diamond-legal Soul of ?X? Personality (that is, ?X? himself or another Personality who is also the ?Soul of X?). These cards are treated as though they are the Diamond-legal version in all ways. ? Sealed Deck ? Participants are required to bring or purchase enough sealed product to build a 30/30 deck. This usually consists of at least one Starter Deck and at least two Booster Packs. Notice: "? Clan joining restrictions (?X will only join X Clan.?, ?X will not join X Clan.?) are waived." Does this mean that if I?m playing a Daimond Storyline game, I can put a Clan Champion that?s not part of my clan and put him into play? _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jrepine1 at email.msn.com Tue Jun 1 16:34:01 2004 From: jrepine1 at email.msn.com (Jimmy Repine) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:34:01 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Odd Tourney Situation References: <23872ED2.3775788B.000547D6@aol.com> Message-ID: > Here are my questions: > 1) Should a judge make a decision based on one player's word over another? No. A judge should look at the situation and make his best judgement. Asking any spectators that might have seen what occurred, ect. > 2) If a game goes to time, and the players refuse to concede, is it automatically a tie or does the judge have a right to say "You lose" to one of the players? I am completely against judges awarding a match to a player in such a way. Barring cheating, unsportsmanlike conduct or something similar, a judge should never decide the outcome of a game like that. > 3) Is Al obligated to tell his opponent his force total if the opponent doesn't ask? (Note that I didn't say "should tell him to be sportsmanlike".) No. > 4) Other thoughts? Without actually being there and seeing the situation, it's hard to make some calls. Especially when dealing with issues of sportsmanship and 'He said/she said' Jimmy Repine Hitomi Yamesh Dragon Clan Tattooed Jedi Master _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From UCIMUNee at aol.com Tue Jun 1 16:37:34 2004 From: UCIMUNee at aol.com (UCIMUNee at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:37:34 EDT Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 12, Issue 6 Message-ID: <129.42d605ec.2dee430e@aol.com> Do you mean the judge gave BOB the win b/c AL picked up his cards? I think the judge was stupid in helping Bob with his "I can't read or ask my opponent his force" disability. As for picking up your cards, is that a written rule?? ~Doji Maidori, aka Michael Shaneman In a message dated 6/1/2004 1:01:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, L5r-ccg-request at alderac.com writes: Message: 6 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 15:43:09 -0400 From: Sphynx at aol.com Subject: [L5R-CCG] Odd Tourney Situation To: l5r-ccg at alderac.com Message-ID: <23872ED2.3775788B.000547D6 at aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 So at a tournament this weekend, a buddy of mine told me of the following situation (note that this is coming from "Al's" side and I don't have any other witnesses to the game). I'll use the names Al and Bob...: Al was in a game playing up against a Shadowlands PK deck (played by Bob). Throughout the game, the Shadowlands player was asking about force counts and such. However, at a key time in a key battle he didn't do so... In the key battle, the shadowlands player passed as did Al, at which point Al said "ok, I have 6 force to your 5, I win." Bob said "6? I thought you only had 4. I would have used commanding favor to drop that follower's force to zero." Al said "Well, unfortunately, since this is a clutch moment in the game, I'm not going to let you take that back." Bob calls over a judge and says to the judge "I said: I'm up by 1 force so I pass. He passed and then claims he's up by 1." Al says, "He may have said he was up by 1 in his head, but he never said it out loud and I don't have to remind him of the force." The judge says "I'm ruling in favor of Bob." Al loses his army. He continues the game at a serious disadvantage and manages to stave off the shadowlands player for a bit longer and then time is called. Al says "Well, time is called and there's no way I'm going to concede this game. I'll take the tie. Nothing personal, but taking the tie is better for me than giving you the win." Al begins to pack up his cards. Bob calls the judge over. The judge asks Al why he is picking up his cards. Al says again "Time was called, I refuse to concede, therefore unless he concedes to me it's a tie." The judge says he had no right to pick up the cards, so he's giving the win to Al. Here are my questions: 1) Should a judge make a decision based on one player's word over another? 2) If a game goes to time, and the players refuse to concede, is it automatically a tie or does the judge have a right to say "You lose" to one of the players? 3) Is Al obligated to tell his opponent his force total if the opponent doesn't ask? (Note that I didn't say "should tell him to be sportsmanlike".) 4) Other thoughts? Ookami Koan Controversy R Us _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jrepine1 at email.msn.com Tue Jun 1 16:35:27 2004 From: jrepine1 at email.msn.com (Jimmy Repine) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:35:27 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report References: <1a8.244d88e1.2dedda92@aol.com><014401c447dc$d43f6c40$1619d60c@Cyclops> <20040601214548.39c63cdb.duchon.philippe@free.fr> Message-ID: I use opponents strength of schedule. Jimmy Repine Hitomi Yamesh Dragon Clan Tattooed Jedi Master ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philippe Duchon" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report > On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 08:32:04 -0500 > "Shinjo Dun" wrote: > > > > If its done manually, it depends on the method the person doing the > > tiebreakers uses, although I really can't imagine ANY sane TO using > > anything other than some pairings program for tourneys. DCIr is really > > good, and really easy to use. If it ain't broke........... > > I was surprised to not see any more details in the new Code of Bushido > about how to select the top X for the cut; basically, it doesn't say > how to rank players within the same number-of-victories bracket. > > What I usually use is "total number of points of opponents" first, > then "total number of points of defeated opponents", but I'm not even > sure this is supposed to be right. And I'm not using DCI Reporter, > because I don't want to bring a laptop to our (small) tournaments; > I've got this program on my Palm, but I'm not 100% happy with it, so > half the time I do this by hand (that's with about 20 players, no > more). > > -- > > Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr > Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From kschafer at nazarenefoundation.org Tue Jun 1 16:41:29 2004 From: kschafer at nazarenefoundation.org (Kevin Schafer) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:41:29 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Code of Bushido question: In-Reply-To: <40BCE7B5.1000707@credifarma.net> Message-ID: <20040601204105.70A9D40759@omta16.mta.everyone.net> If and only if you are playing in a sealed deck tournament. Kevin Schafer > -----Original Message----- > From: L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com [mailto:L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com] On > Behalf Of Vladimir Orellana > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 3:32 PM > To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com > Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] Code of Bushido question: > > The code of Bushido Reads on Page 3: > > Diamond Storyline > The following cards are legal: > ? Any card printed with a Diamond bug in the lower left corner, plus all > previous printings of these cards. > ? Personalities who are the antecedent, or who have the same antecedent, > as a Diamond-legal Soul of ?X? > Personality (that is, ?X? himself or another Personality who is also the > ?Soul of X?). These cards are treated > as though they are the Diamond-legal version in all ways. > ? Sealed Deck ? Participants are required to bring or purchase enough > sealed product to build a 30/30 deck. > This usually consists of at least one Starter Deck and at least two > Booster Packs. > Notice: "? Clan joining restrictions (?X will only join X Clan.?, ?X > will not join X Clan.?) are waived." > > Does this mean that if I?m playing a Daimond Storyline game, I can put a > Clan Champion that?s not part of my clan and put him into play? > > > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jrepine1 at email.msn.com Tue Jun 1 16:38:58 2004 From: jrepine1 at email.msn.com (Jimmy Repine) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:38:58 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Odd Tourney Situation References: Message-ID: Your answers are based upon the M:tG DCI floor rules and their penalities and guidelines. While they are good policy, some don't tranfer over to L5R well. Jimmy Repine Hitomi Yamesh Dragon Clan Tattooed Jedi Master > >Here are my questions: > >1) Should a judge make a decision based on one player's word over another? > > Depending on previous tournament history - yes and no. This is called > "failure to agree on reality" and if one person has a history of such > infractions in the current tournament, the judge should give preference to > the other player (but only if the stories of the players are completely > opposite of each other, and only if the conflict cannot be resolved any > other way). If both players are clean - no, absolutely not. > > >2) If a game goes to time, and the players refuse to concede, is it > >automatically a tie or does the >judge have a right to say "You lose" to > >one of the players? > > The head judge has the right to do anything. The head judge is the ultimate > authority, and can (not saying they should) force a player to lose at any > point in the tournament. Otherwise it would be difficult to hand out game > losses as penalties... Picking up your cards prior to either 1) mutual > agreement between the players on the result of the game or 2)victory on the > part of one player, is generally considered a sign of conceding, tho... > However, if the game goes to time, in my opinion, once the current turn is > finished, the game is a tie, without any input from the players. If one of > them is willing to concede to the other, this has to be done before the turn > is over. > > >3) Is Al obligated to tell his opponent his force total if the opponent > >doesn't ask? (Note that I >didn't say "should tell him to be > >sportsmanlike".) > > No. Nor is Al obligated to tell the truth about his own force. Lying is > bad sportsmanship, and should result in a warning/game loss/DQ (depending on > severity and frequency of the offence) but no player is under the obligation > to tell the truth to their opponents. If the opponent didn't ask Al about > his force, it's his problem, not Al's. Al is fully in the right to hold his > opponent to his actions based on false assumptions. Lying/withholding the > truth about public information is not against the rules. It IS the > responsibility of both players to maintain a legal state of the game - no > personalities with 0 chi in play, no Kolat Mastering Clan Champs; it is NOT > the responsibility of the players to inform the opponent of their misplays, > if they are not breaking the rules of the game. > > Andrew > > > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From duchon.philippe at free.fr Tue Jun 1 16:40:23 2004 From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 22:40:23 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report In-Reply-To: References: <1a8.244d88e1.2dedda92@aol.com> <014401c447dc$d43f6c40$1619d60c@Cyclops> <20040601214548.39c63cdb.duchon.philippe@free.fr> Message-ID: <20040601224023.2677b7ca.duchon.philippe@free.fr> On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:35:27 -0400 "Jimmy Repine" wrote: > I use opponents strength of schedule. Right, but how do you compute this? -- Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From duchon.philippe at free.fr Tue Jun 1 16:37:34 2004 From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 22:37:34 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report In-Reply-To: <40BCE5C3.1080803@mindspring.com> References: <20040601123204.71026.qmail@web90104.mail.scd.yahoo.com> <40BCE5C3.1080803@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20040601223734.69ee89c4.duchon.philippe@free.fr> On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 16:23:31 -0400 Vaughn Derderian wrote: > I'm sorry, I thought that the purpose of a tournament was to find > the best player with the best deck on that given day. In my > opinion, pulling fewer people from Swiss into the elimination rounds > helps accomplish that goal, so it's a good thing. If tournaments > are supposed to have some other goal, something that I'm missing, > please feel free to let me know. > > -- Vaughn * The Random Ninja Well, there's the small factor of some people having fun, too. Plus, the best player with the best deck that day can still lose a few games to chance, so while your argument would support a pure Swiss tournament until only one is left undefeated (equivalent to a single elimination event for the purpose of determining a winner, but lets people play even after they've lost a game - how nice!), I think a mixed version where some people with losses make the cut is better. Of course at some point you turn to single elimination, but by then you should have switched to 2-out-of-3 matches, which should mitigate the effects of bad luck. Plus, it's not just about finding out who the best player is. It's also nice to determine who the top player of each clan was, and so on. I'm afraid focusing only on the winner of the event, is detrimental to the overall experience as a whole. Oh, and every largish event (basically, anything that is expected to draw players from more than the local pool) should have a sportsmanship prize. -- Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jalexander at alderac.com Tue Jun 1 16:41:23 2004 From: jalexander at alderac.com (Jeff Alexander) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 13:41:23 -0700 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Origins In-Reply-To: <1da.22e82fc7.2debaad3@aol.com> References: <1da.22e82fc7.2debaad3@aol.com> Message-ID: > >1) Will the Age of Man open tournament be 30/30 or 40/40? 40/40. No special changes to deck size were announced, so the current rule applies. > >2) Will the Age of Man tournament use starting honor, or starting >honor +cut >>to see who goes first? Starting Honor, breaking ties with a uniform random method. If there is a tie in a multi-game finals match, the start for the first game is determined randomly, then the start alternates on successive games throughout the match. > >3) Will the Age of Man tournament use Winds, or the original favor rules? Winds. There are currently nine in the Open environment. (Black Heart of the Empire is an MRP of Daigotsu.) -- Jeff Alexander Lead Designer, L5R CCG Alderac Entertainment Group _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From duchon.philippe at free.fr Tue Jun 1 16:39:47 2004 From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 22:39:47 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Code of Bushido question: In-Reply-To: <40BCE7B5.1000707@credifarma.net> References: <40BCE7B5.1000707@credifarma.net> Message-ID: <20040601223947.01e978e6.duchon.philippe@free.fr> On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 14:31:49 -0600 Vladimir Orellana wrote: > The code of Bushido Reads on Page 3: > > Diamond Storyline > The following cards are legal: > ___ Any card printed with a Diamond bug in the lower left corner, plus > all previous printings of these cards. > ___ Personalities who are the antecedent, or who have the same > antecedent, as a Diamond-legal Soul of ___X___ > Personality (that is, ___X___ himself or another Personality who is also > the ___Soul of X___). These cards are treated > as though they are the Diamond-legal version in all ways. > ___ Sealed Deck ___ Participants are required to bring or purchase enough > sealed product to build a 30/30 deck. > This usually consists of at least one Starter Deck and at least two > Booster Packs. > Notice: "___ Clan joining restrictions (___X will only join X Clan.___, ___X > > will not join X Clan.___) are waived." > > Does this mean that if I?m playing a Daimond Storyline game, I can put a > > Clan Champion that?s not part of my clan and put him into play? > > Clearly, the last four dots should be indented a bit further, as they are sub-topics of the "Sealed deck" item. Somebody didn't check for silly inconsistencies... -- Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From aelfwin at credifarma.net Tue Jun 1 16:43:49 2004 From: aelfwin at credifarma.net (Vladimir Orellana) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 14:43:49 -0600 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Code of Bushido question: In-Reply-To: <20040601204105.70A9D40759@omta16.mta.everyone.net> References: <20040601204105.70A9D40759@omta16.mta.everyone.net> Message-ID: <40BCEA85.9010809@credifarma.net> Kevin Schafer wrote: >If and only if you are playing in a sealed deck tournament. > >Kevin Schafer > > I tought so, but the rules for draft are below that comment, and this is on the section of Daimond Storyline. I think somebody needs to recheck that document. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From ipw4 at apci.net Tue Jun 1 16:53:31 2004 From: ipw4 at apci.net (Jon & Beth Bancroft) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:53:31 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Region 7 Kotei reminder Time Correction Message-ID: <000d01c4481a$7f8097e0$3564adce@0016260312> ooopppss Correction to the Kotei registration time for Saturday June 5, 2004. Kotei Registration will be from 8am until 10am. Kotei will begin at 10am. Jon _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jrepine1 at email.msn.com Tue Jun 1 17:00:06 2004 From: jrepine1 at email.msn.com (Jimmy Repine) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 17:00:06 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 12, Issue 6 References: <129.42d605ec.2dee430e@aol.com> Message-ID: > Do you mean the judge gave BOB the win b/c AL picked up his cards? > > I think the judge was stupid in helping Bob with his "I can't read or ask my > opponent his force" disability. As for picking up your cards, is that a > written rule?? There was a period in time where some rather dirty players were trying to say that when their opponent picked up their cards before signing the results slip in M:tG tourneys that it was a sign of concession. > ~Doji Maidori, aka Michael Shaneman Jimmy Repine Hitomi Yamesh Dragon Clan Tattooed Jedi Master _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From kmack at alderac.com Tue Jun 1 17:11:55 2004 From: kmack at alderac.com (Kristy Mack) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 14:11:55 -0700 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 12, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: <129.42d605ec.2dee430e@aol.com> References: <129.42d605ec.2dee430e@aol.com> Message-ID: >Do you mean the judge gave BOB the win b/c AL picked up his cards? > >I think the judge was stupid in helping Bob with his "I can't read or ask my >opponent his force" disability. As for picking up your cards, is that a >written rule?? > >~Doji Maidori, aka Michael Shaneman It is -never- acceptable to pick up an opponent's cards without their permission. At the very least, such behavior is unsettling. This is something we did not feel needed to be written out when we were revising the Code, but if confusion exists, we will clarify it. As always, if anyone has specific questions they need answered about the Code, they should email us. The formatting issues will be corrected within the next week or so. Thanks! -- Kristy Mack AEG Fan Club Coordinator kmack at alderac.com "The Princess is in the other castle." - Lucas _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jrepine1 at email.msn.com Tue Jun 1 17:14:10 2004 From: jrepine1 at email.msn.com (Jimmy Repine) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 17:14:10 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report References: <1a8.244d88e1.2dedda92@aol.com><014401c447dc$d43f6c40$1619d60c@Cyclops><20040601214548.39c63cdb.duchon.philippe@free.fr> <20040601224023.2677b7ca.duchon.philippe@free.fr> Message-ID: > On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:35:27 -0400 > "Jimmy Repine" wrote: > > > I use opponents strength of schedule. > > Right, but how do you compute this? The easiest-quick method is to total up the wins each of your opponents had and add them together. For example, lets say the people I played this weekend had the following records: 2-5, 4-3, 5-2, 5-2, 4-3, 5-2, 6-1. Therefor my SoS would be 31. Closer to the way the DCI does it would be to total up the number of wins and divide it by the number of matches played. My opponents won 31 out of 49 games. Which would give you an OMWP of 63.3%. The way the DCI does it (at least the last time I had to do it by hand) is you take the win % for each person you played, with a min value of 33% add them up and divide them. This is because when you batch the totals like in the previous versions, drops will cause skews to the numbers. So, going this way my OMWP would be: 33+57.1+71.4+71.4+57.1+71.4+85.7= 63.9% Jimmy Repine Hitomi Yamesh Dragon Clan Tattooed Jedi Master _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From neilsmithies at optusnet.com.au Tue Jun 1 17:23:16 2004 From: neilsmithies at optusnet.com.au (Neil Smithies) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 07:23:16 +1000 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000e01c4481e$a7b37030$c1681cd3@neil> Download the software from the TO site, it does it all for you (though it is set up for 3/1/0). I have modified a version for 1/0/0 and 8 rounds if your interested let me know. Still you need a PC or PDA to run it on which is the downside...... Dr. Neil Smithies L5R Bounty Hunter Visit L5R Victoria at http://members.optusnet.com.au/vicl5r -----Original Message----- From: L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com [mailto:L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy Repine Sent: Wednesday, 2 June 2004 7:14 AM To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] Re: [ScorpionClan] Florida Kotei, Top Scorpion Report > On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:35:27 -0400 > "Jimmy Repine" wrote: > > > I use opponents strength of schedule. > > Right, but how do you compute this? The easiest-quick method is to total up the wins each of your opponents had and add them together. For example, lets say the people I played this weekend had the following records: 2-5, 4-3, 5-2, 5-2, 4-3, 5-2, 6-1. Therefor my SoS would be 31. Closer to the way the DCI does it would be to total up the number of wins and divide it by the number of matches played. My opponents won 31 out of 49 games. Which would give you an OMWP of 63.3%. The way the DCI does it (at least the last time I had to do it by hand) is you take the win % for each person you played, with a min value of 33% add them up and divide them. This is because when you batch the totals like in the previous versions, drops will cause skews to the numbers. So, going this way my OMWP would be: 33+57.1+71.4+71.4+57.1+71.4+85.7= 63.9% Jimmy Repine Hitomi Yamesh Dragon Clan Tattooed Jedi Master _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From chrisb at bci.co.nz Tue Jun 1 17:35:32 2004 From: chrisb at bci.co.nz (Chris Bridgeman) Date: Wed, 2