From vantor at compupress.gr Fri Oct 1 06:04:56 2004 From: vantor at compupress.gr (Vangelis Kratsas) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:04:56 +0300 Subject: [L5R-CCG] RULES - entering play dishonored Message-ID: Hi, I would like to ask if this ruling means that the rulebook phrase "(The Personal Honor of a Personality who "enters play dishonored" is 0 for this purpose.)" is completely negated in all cases (Toturi etc.). As I understand it, there are two different cases (please correct me if I'm wrong): 1. The ruling affects only Setai Sensei because the phrase "enters play dishonored" is not written in exact words, so the rulebook effect in parenthesis does not happen 2. The ruling affects all cards dishonored before or when entering play, even if the phrase "enters play dishonored" is written on them, because "an effect that depends on a number, and a change to that number,cannot occur at the same time". So I decide to have the honor gained, then apply the dishonor effect, forgetting the phrase in parenthesis that insists that "personal honor is 0 for this purpose" Please enlighten me on this... Doji Vantori Honorable Student of Dirty Tricks "Hey folks, Jeff got us a fast turnaround on this one. Enjoy highering all those Lions for honor and THEN dishonoring them. :) - Marty Lund Deputy Rules Monkey --- Jeff Alexander wrote: > Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 10:22:47 -0700 > To: "Kaioto" > From: Jeff Alexander > Subject: Re: Rules Question - Setai Sensei and > entering play Dishonored > > It is a case of conflicting simultaneous effects (an effect that > depends on a number, and a change to that number, > cannot occur at the same time). Active player decides the order. It > goes directly against intent and all playtest, but the rules are clear. > > > -- > Jeff Alexander > Lead Designer, L5R CCG > Alderac Entertainment Group" _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From as1114097 at sapo.pt Sat Oct 2 09:47:53 2004 From: as1114097 at sapo.pt (Jorge Ribeiro) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 14:47:53 +0100 Subject: [L5R-CCG] RULES - Kyuden Agasha References: Message-ID: <000e01c4a886$6a41d5c0$769fc151@POIS> What's the gold cost of the zero gold cost spells in Kyuden Agasha? Is it zero as in the spell or is it one due to Kyuden Agasha? Shiba Buntaro _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From kaioto at yahoo.com Fri Oct 1 09:56:25 2004 From: kaioto at yahoo.com (Martin Lund) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 06:56:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] RULES - entering play dishonored In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041001135625.71604.qmail@web54110.mail.yahoo.com> Comments Below: --- Vangelis Kratsas wrote: > > Hi, > I would like to ask if this ruling means that the > rulebook phrase "(The Personal Honor of a > Personality who "enters play dishonored" is 0 for > this purpose.)" is completely negated in all cases > (Toturi etc.). As I understand it, there are two > different cases (please correct me if I'm wrong): [MARTY] This only applies to Setai Sensei, because Setai Sensei involves a choice as to whether or not the personality enters play dishonored, and until that choice is made, the personality is NOT entering play dishonored. That choice happens to have the same timing as the Honor Gain for bringing a personality into play, so you have Conflicting Simultaneous Effects. Active player chooses which order to resolve them in, and the active player will typically choose to gain the Honor before he has to choose between Dishonor and -1F. - Marty Lund Deputy Rules Monky __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From hsendatsu at hotmail.com Fri Oct 1 12:38:08 2004 From: hsendatsu at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?B?VG9t4XMgUGVsbPNu?=) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:38:08 +0000 Subject: [L5R-CCG] L5R in Spanish Message-ID: Why do spanish players have to stand cards without the playtesting changes in spanish? Tamago has a restriction that retires him from play if he has less than 1 honor,Iuchiban Sensei is a completely new card, etc. Couldn?t AEG send the changes made to cards to the spanish distributor so that the cards we receive are the same other people use? That?s not to talk about mistranslations, and other errors (like Swamp Harriers getting Hiruma Dojo?s picture), but that has nothing to do with AEG. Kirai Unaligned Ronin - Kolat - Gozoku - AEGseeker "Muy pronto los jefes descubrir?n sus piezas. Entonces, el Imperio temblar?." _________________________________________________________________ Moda para esta temporada. Ponte al d?a de todas las tendencias. http://www.msn.es/Mujer/moda/default.asp _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Jonas.Schupp at t-online.de Fri Oct 1 12:53:00 2004 From: Jonas.Schupp at t-online.de (Jonas.Schupp at t-online.de) Date: 01 Oct 2004 16:53 GMT Subject: [L5R-CCG] RULES - entering play dishonored In-Reply-To: <20041001135625.71604.qmail@web54110.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041001135625.71604.qmail@web54110.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1CDQW7-17qyI40@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> "Martin Lund" schrieb: > Comments Below: > > --- Vangelis Kratsas wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I would like to ask if this ruling means that the > > rulebook phrase "(The Personal Honor of a > > Personality who "enters play dishonored" is 0 for > > this purpose.)" is completely negated in all cases > > (Toturi etc.). As I understand it, there are two > > different cases (please correct me if I'm wrong): > > [MARTY] This only applies to Setai Sensei, because > Setai Sensei involves a choice as to whether or not > the personality enters play dishonored, and until that > choice is made, the personality is NOT entering play > dishonored. That choice happens to have the same > timing as the Honor Gain for bringing a personality > into play, so you have Conflicting Simultaneous > Effects. Active player chooses which order to resolve > them in, and the active player will typically choose > to gain the Honor before he has to choose between > Dishonor and -1F. > > - Marty Lund > Deputy Rules Monky > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > Is there a difference between "before" and "immediately before" or is before always immediately before? Thanks _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From kmack at alderac.com Fri Oct 1 12:57:30 2004 From: kmack at alderac.com (Kristy Mack) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:57:30 -0700 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Imperial Herald #14 Message-ID: Just my usual reminder. The last day to join the Imperial Assembly -and- receive Issue 14 is October 22nd. Note: When you join through the online store, your first Issue will be the one that ships after your membership is processed, this does not always mean it will be the current Issue. Example: If you join the Imperial Assembly today, you will not receive Issue 13, your membership will start with Issue 14. As always, email me, not the list, if you have any questions regarding the Imperial Assembly. Thanks! -- Kristy Mack AEG Fan Club & Events Coordinator kmack at alderac.com "From such wonders are gods born." - Kakita _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From army_of_dragons at hotmail.com Fri Oct 1 12:58:31 2004 From: army_of_dragons at hotmail.com (Ian Price) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:58:31 +0000 Subject: [L5R-CCG] RULES - Setai (Jeff/Marty) Message-ID: Once again, a big thank you to the rules guys for your timely responses to my question! Marty, no hard feelings, you made the safe call and I respect you for it. Thank you again for passing the question on to Jeff. Jeff, thank you for supporting my interpretation! Thank you even moreso for the incredibly quick turnaround on the answer. Please don't errata Setai Sensei. The Scorpion will be tearing us apart with it as is. But, come what may, this has re-affirmed my faith in the CCG rules team. You guys are awesome! --Ian Price aka, Matsu Tamagochan - in honor of our egged champion. aka, Ikoma Tanomori - just a lecherous bard... Always fighting all forms of the taint: we are the Legion of the White Lion! _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From duchon.philippe at free.fr Fri Oct 1 13:30:25 2004 From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 19:30:25 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] DAWN RULES question. In-Reply-To: <20040930.130832.-242191.1.isawaletomo@juno.com> References: <20040930.130832.-242191.1.isawaletomo@juno.com> Message-ID: <20041001193025.1df0423c.duchon.philippe@free.fr> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 13:08:23 -0600 Lee T Boswell wrote: > > >Can Yukue and or Kajiko be bowed to pay for > Kaimetsu-Uo? > > > > No. You are not paying to gain a Province. You are > > paying to put a Personality into play. > > This is true of Kajiko, but Yukue's wording is different. In an > open > game, why would she not be able to? Her text specifically says: > "Reaction: Bow Yukue when paying the gold cost affiliated with gaining > an additional Province. The gold cost is reduced to zero." This is poor wording, but it's still clear to me that the 12G cost of Kaimetsu-Uo is NOT directly affiliated with gaining a Province. The Gold is a cost to make K-U enter play, and gaining a Province would be a consequence of K-U entering play, but it's still not the same thing. -- Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From duchon.philippe at free.fr Fri Oct 1 13:33:15 2004 From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 19:33:15 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Fwd from Jeff - Setai Sensei and entering play Dishonored In-Reply-To: <20040930201534.22370.qmail@web54107.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040930201534.22370.qmail@web54107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20041001193315.3262a69a.duchon.philippe@free.fr> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 13:15:34 -0700 (PDT) Martin Lund wrote: > Hey folks, > > Jeff got us a fast turnaround on this one. > > Enjoy highering all those Lions for honor and THEN > dishonoring them. :) Where's the THEN? Setai Sensei dishonors BEFORE entering play (card text), and Honor is gained AFTER, right (see rulings on Ki-Rin's Shrine)? Was Jeff really aware of this when he made this ruling? -- Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From duchon.philippe at free.fr Fri Oct 1 13:37:39 2004 From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 19:37:39 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] L5R in Spanish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041001193739.2be7ef34.duchon.philippe@free.fr> On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:38:08 +0000 Tom?s Pell?n wrote: > Why do spanish players have to stand cards without the playtesting > changes in spanish? > Tamago has a restriction that retires him from play if he has less than > 1 honor,Iuchiban Sensei is a completely new card, etc. I haven't seen the French cards, but I've been told it's the same with the French versions of the cards. I've been told that this is the printer's (Carta Mundi) fault, as the (post-playtest) corrected versions were sent to them, but not taken into account when printing. -- Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From ninjadebugger at cox.net Fri Oct 1 13:42:22 2004 From: ninjadebugger at cox.net (ninjadebugger) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 12:42:22 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Fwd from Jeff - Setai Sensei and entering playDishonored References: <20040930201534.22370.qmail@web54107.mail.yahoo.com> <20041001193315.3262a69a.duchon.philippe@free.fr> Message-ID: <040e01c4a7de$03d18ea0$f5a60d44@Skuld> > Where's the THEN? > > Setai Sensei dishonors BEFORE entering play (card text), and Honor is > gained AFTER, right (see rulings on Ki-Rin's Shrine)? > > Was Jeff really aware of this when he made this ruling? You need to check your rulings again. They ruled that Dragons _don't_ gain the extra honor for Ki-Rin's Shrine because the gain happens BEFORE entering play. And by rulebook text, they both happen at the same time, which means the active player decides. Akodo Makoto Lion Clan Cannibal _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From duchon.philippe at free.fr Fri Oct 1 13:55:22 2004 From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 19:55:22 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Fwd from Jeff - Setai Sensei and entering playDishonored In-Reply-To: <040e01c4a7de$03d18ea0$f5a60d44@Skuld> References: <20040930201534.22370.qmail@web54107.mail.yahoo.com> <20041001193315.3262a69a.duchon.philippe@free.fr> <040e01c4a7de$03d18ea0$f5a60d44@Skuld> Message-ID: <20041001195522.1b96b658.duchon.philippe@free.fr> On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 12:42:22 -0500 "ninjadebugger" wrote: > > Where's the THEN? > > > > Setai Sensei dishonors BEFORE entering play (card text), and Honor is > > gained AFTER, right (see rulings on Ki-Rin's Shrine)? > > > > Was Jeff really aware of this when he made this ruling? > > You need to check your rulings again. They ruled that Dragons _don't_ > gain the extra honor for Ki-Rin's Shrine because the gain happens BEFORE > entering play. And by rulebook text, they both happen at the same time, > which means the active player decides. You see... I don't know exactly how, from the fact (that I knew) that you don't gain extra Honor from the Ki-Rin's Shrine, I ever could deduce that the Honor gain happened after entering play. Thanks for making me feel extra stupid tonight :) -- Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From ze.mike at megamail.pt Fri Oct 1 15:05:49 2004 From: ze.mike at megamail.pt (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Miguel_Diniz_Martins?=) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 20:05:49 +0100 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Direct Assault after Archer Squad Message-ID: <1096657549.415daa8d158d3@roma-hme1> Can I bow a unit that has his personality bowed? Example: I have an army with 4 bushi with 1 follower each. I play archer squad and bow the personalities for the ranged attacks, then i play direct assault. Can I bow the units with unbowed followers for the action or must the personality be unbowed for that. Direct assault says "bow a unit", not "bow a personality", so if I have unbowed followers does that count as unbowed units? ------------------------------------------------- Email Enviado utilizando o servi?o MegaMail _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From anowack at tulane.edu Fri Oct 1 15:27:55 2004 From: anowack at tulane.edu (Aaron Nowack) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:27:55 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] L5R in Spanish In-Reply-To: <20041001193739.2be7ef34.duchon.philippe@free.fr> References: <20041001193739.2be7ef34.duchon.philippe@free.fr> Message-ID: <415DAFBB.1090709@tulane.edu> Philippe Duchon wrote: > On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:38:08 +0000 > Tom?s Pell?n wrote: > >> Why do spanish players have to stand cards without the playtesting >> changes in spanish? >> Tamago has a restriction that retires him from play if he has less than >> 1 honor,Iuchiban Sensei is a completely new card, etc. > > I haven't seen the French cards, but I've been told it's the same with > the French versions of the cards. I've been told that this is the > printer's (Carta Mundi) fault, as the (post-playtest) corrected > versions were sent to them, but not taken into account when printing. > Out of rampant curiosity, what does the French/Spanish Iuchiban Sensei do? "Shosuro Aaron" Scorpion Clan Perpetual Newbie * Half-Chi _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From mls14 at mac.com Fri Oct 1 15:29:40 2004 From: mls14 at mac.com (Matthew Smith) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 15:29:40 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Direct Assault after Archer Squad In-Reply-To: <1096657549.415daa8d158d3@roma-hme1> References: <1096657549.415daa8d158d3@roma-hme1> Message-ID: <3D737621-13E0-11D9-8085-0003939CD690@mac.com> On Oct 1, 2004, at 15:05, Jos? Miguel Diniz Martins wrote: > Can I bow a unit that has his personality bowed? > Example: I have an army with 4 bushi with 1 follower > each. I play archer squad and bow the personalities for > the ranged attacks, then i play direct assault. Can I > bow the units with unbowed followers for the action or > must the personality be unbowed for that. Direct > assault says "bow a unit", not "bow a personality", so > if I have unbowed followers does that count as unbowed > units? Nope, the entire unit must be unbowed. I'm almost certain this was also answered on this list at some point too. Matthew _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From marek at geek.hu Fri Oct 1 16:56:08 2004 From: marek at geek.hu (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Szaszk=F3_M=E1rton?=) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 22:56:08 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES]Question Message-ID: Greetings, Let's say that a player has Kakita Chiyeko bowed in a battle. He plays a Steel on Steel, using Chiyeko's Reaction, but his opponent negates the unbowing with Victory of the Wolf. What happens in this situation? Thank you in advance. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From rmcchesney at hotmail.com Fri Oct 1 18:38:32 2004 From: rmcchesney at hotmail.com (Robert McChesney) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 22:38:32 +0000 Subject: [L5R-CCG] rule- katsu experienced Message-ID: I'd like to know if its possible to bring katsu twice back from your discard pile. situation: katsu is dead in my discard pile with a copy of him trough egg of panku. I bow my stronghold to bring katsu into play and straiten my stronghold with hero's grave. Can i bring then my egg into play since the katsu says to ignore all costs and restrictions? Title Katsu (Experienced) Edition Wrath of the Empror Text Shadowlands Shugenja. Khadi. Experienced. Unique Lose 6 Honor. Katsu will not join players other than his owner. Limited: If Katsu is dead in your discard pile, bow your Stronghold to bring him into play, ignoring costs and restrictions. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jalexander at alderac.com Fri Oct 1 18:46:23 2004 From: jalexander at alderac.com (Jeff Alexander) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 15:46:23 -0700 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List/Errata update for October 1st, 2004 Message-ID: As part of the never-ending process of improving the L5R CCG tournaments as competitive events, AEG is announcing the creation of a formal Watch List of cards we feel may be unduly influencing the play environment. This list will be updated monthly, with all cards on it eventually either being removed from the Watch List or receiving balancing errata once we have had time to ascertain the card's true status. Such errata will also be announced monthly, and will typically have a one month lead time before any goes into effect. Gozoku Sensei is being added to the Watch List. -- Jeff Alexander Lead Designer, L5R CCG Alderac Entertainment Group _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From rmcchesney at hotmail.com Fri Oct 1 18:48:26 2004 From: rmcchesney at hotmail.com (Robert McChesney) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 22:48:26 +0000 Subject: [L5R-CCG] rule- katsu experienced Message-ID: I'd like to know if its possible to bring katsu twice back from your discard pile. situation: katsu is dead in my discard pile with a copy of him trough egg of panku. I bow my stronghold to bring katsu into play and straiten my stronghold with hero's grave. Can i bring then my egg into play since the katsu says to ignore all costs and restrictions? Title Katsu (Experienced) Edition Wrath of the Empror Text Shadowlands Shugenja. Khadi. Experienced. Unique Lose 6 Honor. Katsu will not join players other than his owner. Limited: If Katsu is dead in your discard pile, bow your Stronghold to bring him into play, ignoring costs and restrictions. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From kmack at alderac.com Fri Oct 1 19:35:26 2004 From: kmack at alderac.com (Kristy Mack) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 16:35:26 -0700 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Kotei 2005 News Message-ID: Keep your eyes on the Legend of the Five Ring website. The 2005 Kotei Request for Proposal will be up soon. As a special note, we are planning to schedule the Florida Kotei for Memorial Day weekend so everyone attending the Kotei Cruise can attend two Koteis in the same week without additional travel expenses. More formal details will be announced when all of the RFPs have been turned in and the final schedule is announced. This message is early because we are trying to make sure everyone remembers the October 8th deadline to make their Kotei Cruise reservations. John Zinser will be attending both of these Koteis, so if you haven't had a chance to meet the boss yet, this will be a great opportunity. If you have any specific questions regarding the Kotei Cruise, make sure to contact Eric Devlin at saberinc at prodigy.net Once the RFP is up, if you have any questions about it, feel free to email me. Have a great weekend everyone! -- Kristy Mack AEG Fan Club & Events Coordinator kmack at alderac.com "From such wonders are gods born." - Kakita _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From arthur at halavais.net Fri Oct 1 20:30:48 2004 From: arthur at halavais.net (Arthur Halavais) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 00:30:48 +0000 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [Rules] Implied Traits Message-ID: <20041002003048.916.qmail@station171.com> Since I cna't seem to find a list anywhere, would it be possible to see a comprehensive list of all currently effective Implied Traits? Yogo Aroso _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From beattyr2003 at earthlink.net Fri Oct 1 20:44:03 2004 From: beattyr2003 at earthlink.net (Robert Beatty) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 20:44:03 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [Rules] Implied Traits References: <20041002003048.916.qmail@station171.com> Message-ID: <001b01c4a818$ebfb1a40$149079a5@DFDWZP21> Are you Implying that such a list is someplace you cant find? :P Bayushi Daremo Scorpion Clan *Ninja* Samurai Troublemaker Shadowed Tower *Bloodspeaker* ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Halavais" > Since I cna't seem to find a list anywhere, would it be possible to see a > comprehensive list of all currently effective Implied Traits? > > Yogo Aroso _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From AkodoBob at sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 1 20:54:06 2004 From: AkodoBob at sbcglobal.net (AkodoBob at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 17:54:06 -0700 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [Rules] Implied Traits References: <20041002003048.916.qmail@station171.com> Message-ID: <001701c4a81a$5231fbc0$6501a8c0@dell1> Page 65 of the Diamond Edition Rule book has a list. I don't know if it's comprehensive, but I can't think of any others. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Halavais" To: Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 5:30 PM Subject: [L5R-CCG] [Rules] Implied Traits > Since I cna't seem to find a list anywhere, would it be possible to see a comprehensive list of all currently effective Implied Traits? > > Yogo Aroso > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From arthur at halavais.net Fri Oct 1 22:41:07 2004 From: arthur at halavais.net (Arthur Halavais) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 02:41:07 +0000 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [rules] Patronage Message-ID: <20041002024107.7797.qmail@station171.com> The personality bowing to bay the cost of Patronage is considered to be performing it, correct? If this is the case, and said personality were dishonored, would the Patronage rehonor them instead of creating the 2 honor at end of turn? Yogo Aroso _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From sascha.meyer at sdirekt-net.de Sat Oct 2 04:01:51 2004 From: sascha.meyer at sdirekt-net.de (Sascha Meyer) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 10:01:51 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List/Errata update for October 1st, 2004 Message-ID: <000a01c4a856$141daf00$14433ed4@q> Does this mean there is no chance that a possible Gozoku Sensei errata goes into effect before December, 1st? The European Championship has to be played with this "slightly overpowered" Gozoku Sensei ? > Gozoku Sensei is being added to the Watch List. > > -- > Jeff Alexander > Lead Designer, L5R CCG > Alderac Entertainment Group _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From duchon.philippe at free.fr Sat Oct 2 04:25:42 2004 From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 10:25:42 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List/Errata update for October 1st, 2004 In-Reply-To: <000a01c4a856$141daf00$14433ed4@q> References: <000a01c4a856$141daf00$14433ed4@q> Message-ID: <20041002102542.406333e6.duchon.philippe@free.fr> On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 10:01:51 +0200 "Sascha Meyer" wrote: > Does this mean there is no chance that a possible Gozoku Sensei errata > goes into effect before December, 1st? > The European Championship has to be played with this "slightly > overpowered" Gozoku Sensei ? > The Watch List does NOT mean AEG considers it overpowered (I don't think there's much doubt that it IS strong; it remains to be seen whether it's really out of line), only that it might be. And while I don't know if it's happened in the past, an erratum could appear for Nov. 1st, right? -- Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Whitecat31 at aol.com Sat Oct 2 04:28:31 2004 From: Whitecat31 at aol.com (Whitecat31 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 04:28:31 EDT Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List/Errata update for October 1st, 2004 Message-ID: <110.3928361a.2e8fc0af@aol.com> In a message dated 10/2/2004 1:09:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, sascha.meyer at sdirekt-net.de writes: > Does this mean there is no chance that a possible Gozoku Sensei errata goes > into effect > before December, 1st? > The European Championship has to be played with this "slightly overpowered" > Gozoku Sensei ? > > > >Gozoku Sensei is being added to the Watch List. > > > >-- > >Jeff Alexander > >Lead Designer, L5R CCG > >Alderac Entertainment Group > Well, do what most people do.. Play with it. It is easily abused. Scorpion can actually run a decent military now. Political Adjuncts are awesome are with it in almost any deck. If you are really bothered by it, confusion at court, shoguns fealty, heck even "enough talk", might fit well in a deck. Seriously Good luck. The card is a detriment to the environment. David Starr Whitecat31 GAB Vice-Admiral in the Golden Koku Team _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From mls14 at mac.com Sat Oct 2 10:01:15 2004 From: mls14 at mac.com (Matthew Smith) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 10:01:15 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List/Errata update for October 1st, 2004 In-Reply-To: <110.3928361a.2e8fc0af@aol.com> References: <110.3928361a.2e8fc0af@aol.com> Message-ID: <86C69AC8-147B-11D9-A550-0003939CD690@mac.com> On Oct 2, 2004, at 04:28, Whitecat31 at aol.com wrote: > Well, do what most people do.. Play with it. It is easily abused. > Scorpion > can actually run a decent military now. Political Adjuncts are awesome > are with > it in almost any deck. It is easily abused and basically has no drawbacks. That is why it is so powerful. Not being able to play a wind with Gozoku sensei is inconsequential because it is more powerful than any of the winds. And -1 to starting honor only hurts Lion because they have so many people with a 6 honor requirement. What makes it worse is that its secondary ability is also extremely strong, and you tend to forget about it as an opponent since you're worried about your guys getting bowed out. > If you are really bothered by it, confusion at court, shoguns fealty, > heck > even "enough talk", might fit well in a deck. > > Seriously Good luck. The card is a detriment to the environment. I have found that weenie blitz (lion benten blitz, for example) decks do pretty well against Gozoku. You've got more people than they can bow out. Just look out for the dishonor in that case. Also, pack 3x the same old tricks in case they try to bow 3 or 4 people in a turn. If you can play that one meta card, you're in really nice shape. The problem is that weenie blitz tends to lose to other deck types. Matthew _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From kitsuki_ikeda at yahoo.com Sat Oct 2 12:39:35 2004 From: kitsuki_ikeda at yahoo.com (Kitsuki Ikeda) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 09:39:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Earthly Yearnings Message-ID: <20041002163935.5148.qmail@web12204.mail.yahoo.com> It's my opponent's turn, and I've got an Agasha Seruma in play with Earthly Yearnings attached. During the Action phase, the sequence of plays goes as follows: Opponent's first action: Bow Kakita Dueling Academy to fetch an Iaijutsu Challenge. My action: Bow Seruma to cast Earthly Yearnings, targeting my opponent's Doji Kurohito exp2. Opponent's action: Use Iaijutsu Challenge to have Kurohito challenge Seruma to a duel. Once my opponent challenges Seruma, do I give Seruma the Earthly Yearnings bonus in time for her to be able to strike and kill Kurohito, or does Seruma only get the bonus after the entire action resolves? _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From whowhoamamii at hotmail.com Sat Oct 2 16:55:44 2004 From: whowhoamamii at hotmail.com (dustin howard) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 20:55:44 +0000 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List/Errata update for October 1st, 2004 Message-ID: >And while I don't know if it's happened in the past, an erratum could >appear for Nov. 1st, right? > >-- > > Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr > Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek > In the past they've indicated that future watchlist errata will take a month to come into effect. So if errata is issued on Nov 1, it won't affect anything until Dec 1. Ide Okama _________________________________________________________________ Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From moosi at paradise.net.nz Sun Oct 3 00:02:49 2004 From: moosi at paradise.net.nz (Mark Williams) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 17:02:49 +1300 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watchlist update In-Reply-To: <0I4Y009VOSWWOZ@linda-3.paradise.net.nz> References: <0I4Y009VOSWWOZ@linda-3.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20041003165836.01bcba28@pop3.paradise.net.nz> At 05:10 AM 10/3/2004 +1300, you wrote: >Gozoku Sensei is being added to the Watch List. I will express my surprise that the better all factions sensei ended up on the watchlist. No, really. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Luftmorder at aol.com Sun Oct 3 00:07:50 2004 From: Luftmorder at aol.com (Luftmorder at aol.com) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 00:07:50 EDT Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watchlist update Message-ID: <1ec.2b4574be.2e90d516@aol.com> In a message dated 10/2/2004 9:04:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, moosi at paradise.net.nz writes: I will express my surprise that the better all factions sensei ended up on the watchlist. No, really. I agree, I would have thought that Kuyden Bayushi, if anything, was more abusive than Gozoku sensei. With or without said sensei. Unfortunately, I cannot think of a way to make it not so without making it a coaster. Thankfully better minds than mine are on the Design Team. The Sensei is strong, but not unbeatable. That's my thought anyway. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From npg at internode.on.net Sun Oct 3 06:06:55 2004 From: npg at internode.on.net (Nick Grebneff) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 19:36:55 +0930 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Fwd from Jeff - Setai Sensei and entering playDishonored In-Reply-To: <20041001195522.1b96b658.duchon.philippe@free.fr> Message-ID: <001501c4a930$bd21a680$92306596@kyudenbayushi> > > > Where's the THEN? > > > Setai Sensei dishonors BEFORE entering play (card text), > > > and Honor > > > is gained AFTER, right (see rulings on Ki-Rin's Shrine)? > > > Was Jeff really aware of this when he made this ruling? > > > > You need to check your rulings again. They ruled that > > Dragons _don't_ > > gain the extra honor for Ki-Rin's Shrine because the gain happens > > BEFORE entering play. And by rulebook text, they both > > happen at the same time, which means the active player decides. Hmmm... Excuse me for coming into this discussion somewhat late but it seems to me that this latest ruling contradicts an earlier ruling. The following was taken from the Entering Play section of the Accumulated Rulings: "A player cannot gain honor from hiring a Personality of his or her faction who enters play dishonored (notwithstanding the rule that honor gains occur before a Personality enters play). [Summary of other rulings; JA, 13 August 2002]" I've got nothing against improving the useability of this Sensei, but I would really prefer to see the rules remain as consistant as possible. _____________________________________________ Bayushi Kusai . Scorpion Clan Samurai . Ninja "Come, the lady of the Grove awaits." _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From duchon.philippe at free.fr Sun Oct 3 06:32:28 2004 From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 12:32:28 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Fwd from Jeff - Setai Sensei and entering playDishonored In-Reply-To: <001501c4a930$bd21a680$92306596@kyudenbayushi> References: <20041001195522.1b96b658.duchon.philippe@free.fr> <001501c4a930$bd21a680$92306596@kyudenbayushi> Message-ID: <20041003123228.70dd2f65.duchon.philippe@free.fr> On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 19:36:55 +0930 "Nick Grebneff" wrote: > > Hmmm... Excuse me for coming into this discussion somewhat late but > it seems to me that this latest ruling contradicts an earlier ruling. > > The following was taken from the Entering Play section of the > Accumulated Rulings: > "A player cannot gain honor from hiring a Personality of his or her > faction who enters play dishonored (notwithstanding the rule that > honor gains occur before a Personality enters play). > [Summary of other rulings; JA, 13 August 2002]" The difference is that, with Setai Sensei, the dishonoring is optional: you can opt not to have it happen. So, the normal rules for conflicting simultaneous effects come into effect: if the result is incompatible (like, the player gains Honor, but doesn't), the active player chooses which effect happens first. -- Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From duchon.philippe at free.fr Sun Oct 3 07:51:31 2004 From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 13:51:31 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Permanently gained restricted abilities Message-ID: <20041003135131.251e52d2.duchon.philippe@free.fr> Say a Personality (DON'T think of Doji Konishiko, or Marty won't answer the question!) permanently gains, say, an ability from an Action card that, under normal circumstances, can only be used once (or once for each time something happens; think of Shame). Can the ability then be used once per turn, or more often than that? Or does the restriction carry over to the gained ability? -- Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From npg at internode.on.net Sun Oct 3 09:40:31 2004 From: npg at internode.on.net (Nick Grebneff) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 23:10:31 +0930 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Fwd from Jeff - Setai Sensei and entering playDishonored In-Reply-To: <20041003123228.70dd2f65.duchon.philippe@free.fr> Message-ID: <000401c4a94e$90e31180$92306596@kyudenbayushi> > > The following was taken from the Entering Play section of the > > Accumulated Rulings: "A player cannot gain honor from hiring a > > Personality of his or her faction who enters play dishonored > > (notwithstanding the rule that honor gains occur before a > Personality > > enters play). [Summary of other rulings; JA, 13 August 2002]" > > The difference is that, with Setai Sensei, the dishonoring is > optional: you can opt not to have it happen. So, the normal > rules for conflicting simultaneous effects come into effect: > if the result is incompatible (like, the player gains Honor, > but doesn't), the active player chooses which effect happens first. I really don't see how the dishonouring being optional makes any difference. If the player using Setai so chooses, the personality will *enter*play*dishonoured*. All that is relevent to this ruling is whether a personality entering play is doing so dishonoured or not dishonoured. If it does indeed enter play dishonoured then you cannot gain any honour. The facts seem quite clear to me. _____________________________________________ Bayushi Kusai . Scorpion Clan Samurai . Ninja "Come, the lady of the Grove awaits." _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From hsendatsu at hotmail.com Sun Oct 3 10:45:17 2004 From: hsendatsu at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?B?VG9t4XMgUGVsbPNu?=) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 14:45:17 +0000 Subject: [L5R-CCG] L5R in Spanish Message-ID: >Out of rampant curiosity, what does the French/Spanish Iuchiban Sensei do? > > >"Shosuro Aaron" >Scorpion Clan Perpetual Newbie * Half-Chi > >_______________________________________________ I?m not sure about the card (I saw it at the prerelease and don?t own a copy), but it is something like: Your nonhuman Personalities cost 1 more Gold Limited: Once per turn, give a Bloodspeaker Personality in one of your Provinces your Faction Trait. Reaction: The same as normal Iuchiban Sensei. Kirai Unaligned Ronin - Kolat - Gozoku - AEGseeker "Muy pronto los jefes descubrir?n sus piezas. Entonces, el Imperio temblar?." >L5r-ccg mailing list >L5r-ccg at alderac.com >http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com _________________________________________________________________ Descarga gratis la Barra de Herramientas de MSN http://www.msn.es/usuario/busqueda/barra?XAPID=2031&DI=1055&SU=http%3A//www.hotmail.com&HL=LINKTAG1OPENINGTEXT_MSNBH _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From ninjadebugger at cox.net Sun Oct 3 11:00:24 2004 From: ninjadebugger at cox.net (ninjadebugger) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:00:24 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Fwd from Jeff - Setai Sensei and entering playDishonored References: <000401c4a94e$90e31180$92306596@kyudenbayushi> Message-ID: <07c401c4a959$b65ae450$f5a60d44@Skuld> > I really don't see how the dishonouring being optional makes any > difference. If the player using Setai so chooses, the personality > will *enter*play*dishonoured*. > > All that is relevent to this ruling is whether a personality entering > play is doing so dishonoured or not dishonoured. If it does indeed > enter play dishonoured then you cannot gain any honour. > > The facts seem quite clear to me. The problem is, the personalities aren't "entering play dishonored" The personalities are being dishonored before they enter play. There IS a difference. You cannot check a value while changing it. Two conflicting effects, both with the same timing "before entering play". The active player decides which happens first. Most of the time, he's going to choose to check the value first, so the game will see only a personality entering play honorably. Your problem, as I see it, is that you're trying to force resolution of Setai Sensei first, which you can't force, according to the rules. Two effects, they conflict, and they happen on the same trigger, active player chooses. Period. It's been ruled time and time again. Jeff couldn't rule otherwise. He'd be invalidating his own past rulings. The only way to "fix" Setai Sensei would be to errata it to say something about not gaining honor for the personalities involved, or change the timing so that it had to happen before the gaining honor for coming into play. That's not a ruling. That's errata. Errata doesn't happen until/unless the card is warping the environment in undesirable ways. Akodo Makoto Lion Clan Cannibal _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From cloak72 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 3 11:00:52 2004 From: cloak72 at yahoo.com (Robert Van Natter) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 08:00:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Fwd from Jeff - Setai Sensei and entering playDishonored In-Reply-To: <000401c4a94e$90e31180$92306596@kyudenbayushi> Message-ID: <20041003150052.81752.qmail@web41829.mail.yahoo.com> The difference is the timing of the choice conflicts with the timing of the honour gain. Because of this, the active player gets to decide which effect occurs first, the choice, or the honour gain. --- Nick Grebneff wrote: > > > The following was taken from the Entering Play > section of the > > > Accumulated Rulings: "A player cannot gain honor > from hiring a > > > Personality of his or her faction who enters > play dishonored > > > (notwithstanding the rule that honor gains occur > before a > > Personality > > > enters play). [Summary of other rulings; JA, 13 > August 2002]" > > > > The difference is that, with Setai Sensei, the > dishonoring is > > optional: you can opt not to have it happen. So, > the normal > > rules for conflicting simultaneous effects come > into effect: > > if the result is incompatible (like, the player > gains Honor, > > but doesn't), the active player chooses which > effect happens first. > > I really don't see how the dishonouring being > optional makes any > difference. If the player using Setai so chooses, > the personality > will *enter*play*dishonoured*. > > All that is relevent to this ruling is whether a > personality entering > play is doing so dishonoured or not dishonoured. If > it does indeed > enter play dishonoured then you cannot gain any > honour. > > The facts seem quite clear to me. > > > _____________________________________________ > Bayushi Kusai . Scorpion Clan Samurai . Ninja > "Come, the lady of the Grove awaits." > > > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > ===== Hiruma Ayslyn Crab Clan Professional Medler Scout Samurai Hero "We are all just Samurai brother, but when we stand together, we are the Crab" "Pain shared is pain divided; joy shared is joy multiplied" Everything I needed to know, I learned from drinking at Callahan's _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From lyversj at bellsouth.net Sun Oct 3 12:38:44 2004 From: lyversj at bellsouth.net (James Lyvers) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 12:38:44 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Fwd from Jeff - Setai Sensei and entering playDishonored In-Reply-To: <20041003150052.81752.qmail@web41829.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It seems to me that the JA ruling from 2002 about not gaining honor if enter play dishonored implies that the choice to pay full or 2 less happens at the same time as the dishonor choice, but the effect of that choice (gaining honor)doesn't happen until later, which doesn't invalidate anything. It was in fact my initial basis for arguing that you do not gain the honor. In addition if bringing a dynasty card into play from a province were treated like any other action their would be a distinct procedure. Announce Target (effectively uneccessary in most cases) Pay Cost Resolve Now you pay cost including deciding to change cost before you resolve the effect of bringing a card into play and other ancilliary effects like gain honor if paid full for personality of your faction/Bow holdings/etc. And why should the dynasty phase have to have special rules that cause confusion like this instead of opperating just like everything else. The design team seems intrested in creating symetry in other aspects like the parallel of battle and duel resolution. Why not here as well? I'm a lion and I don't like this ruling at all. Akodo James -----Original Message----- From: L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com [mailto:L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com]On Behalf Of Robert Van Natter Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 11:01 AM To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com Subject: RE: [L5R-CCG] Fwd from Jeff - Setai Sensei and entering playDishonored The difference is the timing of the choice conflicts with the timing of the honour gain. Because of this, the active player gets to decide which effect occurs first, the choice, or the honour gain. --- Nick Grebneff wrote: > > > The following was taken from the Entering Play > section of the > > > Accumulated Rulings: "A player cannot gain honor > from hiring a > > > Personality of his or her faction who enters > play dishonored > > > (notwithstanding the rule that honor gains occur > before a > > Personality > > > enters play). [Summary of other rulings; JA, 13 > August 2002]" > > > > The difference is that, with Setai Sensei, the > dishonoring is > > optional: you can opt not to have it happen. So, > the normal > > rules for conflicting simultaneous effects come > into effect: > > if the result is incompatible (like, the player > gains Honor, > > but doesn't), the active player chooses which > effect happens first. > > I really don't see how the dishonouring being > optional makes any > difference. If the player using Setai so chooses, > the personality > will *enter*play*dishonoured*. > > All that is relevent to this ruling is whether a > personality entering > play is doing so dishonoured or not dishonoured. If > it does indeed > enter play dishonoured then you cannot gain any > honour. > > The facts seem quite clear to me. > > > _____________________________________________ > Bayushi Kusai . Scorpion Clan Samurai . Ninja > "Come, the lady of the Grove awaits." > > > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > ===== Hiruma Ayslyn Crab Clan Professional Medler Scout Samurai Hero "We are all just Samurai brother, but when we stand together, we are the Crab" "Pain shared is pain divided; joy shared is joy multiplied" Everything I needed to know, I learned from drinking at Callahan's _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From npg at internode.on.net Sun Oct 3 12:53:22 2004 From: npg at internode.on.net (Nick Grebneff) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 02:23:22 +0930 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Fwd from Jeff - Setai Sensei and entering playDishonored In-Reply-To: <07c401c4a959$b65ae450$f5a60d44@Skuld> Message-ID: <001201c4a969$83f9c160$92306596@kyudenbayushi> Well... I must say that I normally feel I have a pretty good grasp of where the rules are and then every now and then something like this comes along. Your arguments have certainly given me much cause for contemplation. I still believe that the way that I read the ruling that there should be no honour gain. However, I can now see a case that the ruling I quoted could be interpreted differently. As I stated before it reads: "A player cannot gain honor from hiring a Personality of his or her faction who enters play dishonored (notwithstanding the rule that honor gains occur before a Personality enters play). [Summary of other rulings; JA, 13 August 2002]" Now everyone is going on about how important the timing is here but I do not see that timing is relevant to this ruling because it the ruling itself specifically states that it does not care that honour gains happen before. Essentially it is acknowledging that normally there would be a timing issue here but that it does not care and is overiding those other rules in this specific case. Anyhow, the two ways I can see that you can read this ruling are that it checks for: a) Effects which specifically describe that a personality "enters play dishonoured" OR b) Personalities that actually enter play in the dishonoured state If a) is true then this ruling obviously does not apply to Setai Sensei as it does not use that specific terminology. However, if it truly was meant to be read that way to look for that specific phrase then it should really be using quotation marks around the phrase as I have (and perhaps should make it pointedly clear that it is indeed only that phrase that is being considered. However, if b) is true then there is no practical difference between a card that "enters play dishonoured" and one that is "dishonoured before entering play". The end result will be that the personality comes into play dishonoured. A personality that subjected to either such effect must become dishonored at the same time i.e. immediately before entering play. You can do all the checking of state that you want and these two effects will look identical. Anyhow I look forward to seeing people's views on this - a couple of you almost had me convinced until I re-examined my reasoning. ;-) _____________________________________________ Bayushi Kusai . Scorpion Clan Samurai . Ninja "Come, the lady of the Grove awaits." _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From ninjadebugger at cox.net Sun Oct 3 13:05:14 2004 From: ninjadebugger at cox.net (ninjadebugger) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 12:05:14 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Fwd from Jeff - Setai Sensei and entering playDishonored References: <001201c4a969$83f9c160$92306596@kyudenbayushi> Message-ID: <082001c4a96b$26df9c00$f5a60d44@Skuld> > Anyhow I look forward to seeing people's views on this - a couple of you > almost had me convinced until I re-examined my reasoning. ;-) Aaaaah, see, there's your fundamental problem. The ruling you're quoting, and using to support your entire argument, is obsolete. The Diamond Edition rulebook, on page 59, states: "...or add his Personal Honor to your Family Honor immediately before he enters play. (The Personal Honor of a personality who "enters play dishonored" is 0 for this purpose.)" The ruling you quoted was changed slightly and incorporated into the rules, and rendered obsolete. As far as the rules are concerned, according to the current rulebook and current rulings, the personality is not "entering play dishonored", he simply happens to have been dishonored after the honor was gained and before he entered play. Akodo Makoto Lion Clan Cannibal _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Whitecat31 at aol.com Sun Oct 3 13:33:29 2004 From: Whitecat31 at aol.com (Whitecat31 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 13:33:29 EDT Subject: [L5R-CCG] Fwd from Jeff - Setai Sensei and entering playDishonored Message-ID: <126.4c74e87b.2e9191e9@aol.com> In a message dated 10/3/2004 9:55:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time, npg at internode.on.net writes: > As I stated before it reads: > "A player cannot gain honor from hiring a Personality of his or her > faction who enters play dishonored (notwithstanding the rule that > honor gains occur before a Personality enters play). > [Summary of other rulings; JA, 13 August 2002]" If it makes you feel better, some of us think this is a counter intuitive ruling anyway. They changed the rules due to Ki-Rin's Shrine Exp to make the honor gain happen before entering play. The above rule was based on previous rules of the game. Basically, they want to have one's cake and it eat it too. It is two incompatible rulings. David Starr whitecat31 GAB Vice-Admiral in the Golden Koku team _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From loki_lamesang at hotmail.com Sun Oct 3 15:14:25 2004 From: loki_lamesang at hotmail.com (Loki) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 21:14:25 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Brutal Confrontation + Same Old Tricks question Message-ID: Hi ! I have a really simple question about the interaction between The Same Old Tricks and Brutal Confrontation : can the former cancel the latter if its action is used more than once ? I would assume it can't, but I just want to be sure. Thanks. Loki _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From lyversj at bellsouth.net Sun Oct 3 16:28:56 2004 From: lyversj at bellsouth.net (James Lyvers) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 16:28:56 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Brutal Confrontation + Same Old Tricks question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I would say no, because the actions described on Brutal Confrontation are given to players. Notice that the two actions are in Quotes, not actions on Brutal Confrontation. Akodo James -----Original Message----- From: L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com [mailto:L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com]On Behalf Of Loki Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 3:14 PM To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com Subject: [L5R-CCG] Brutal Confrontation + Same Old Tricks question Hi ! I have a really simple question about the interaction between The Same Old Tricks and Brutal Confrontation : can the former cancel the latter if its action is used more than once ? I would assume it can't, but I just want to be sure. Thanks. Loki _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From npg at internode.on.net Sun Oct 3 20:44:18 2004 From: npg at internode.on.net (Nick Grebneff) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:14:18 +0930 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Fwd from Jeff - Setai Sensei and entering playDishonored In-Reply-To: <082001c4a96b$26df9c00$f5a60d44@Skuld> Message-ID: <001101c4a9ab$4dd14a80$53816596@kyudenbayushi> Aha! Thank you. Finally some clarity. Yes it does indeed appear that the ruling I quoted has been made redundant. In that case, perhaps we can have it removed from the Archive to avoid furher confusion? Again thank you all for you patience. _____________________________________________ Bayushi Kusai . Scorpion Clan Samurai . Ninja "Come, the lady of the Grove awaits." > Aaaaah, see, there's your fundamental problem. > > The ruling you're quoting, and using to support your entire > argument, is obsolete. The Diamond Edition rulebook, on page > 59, states: > > "...or add his Personal Honor to your Family Honor > immediately before he enters play. (The Personal Honor of a > personality who "enters play dishonored" is 0 for this purpose.)" > > The ruling you quoted was changed slightly and incorporated > into the rules, and rendered obsolete. As far as the rules > are concerned, according to the current rulebook and current > rulings, the personality is not "entering play dishonored", > he simply happens to have been dishonored after the honor was > gained and before he entered play. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From apollyon.no.oni at gmail.com Mon Oct 4 01:53:26 2004 From: apollyon.no.oni at gmail.com (Apollyon no Oni) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:53:26 +1000 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Permanently gained restricted abilities In-Reply-To: <20041003135131.251e52d2.duchon.philippe@free.fr> References: <20041003135131.251e52d2.duchon.philippe@free.fr> Message-ID: <2dd6b5240410032253760e546@mail.gmail.com> The restriction carries over, whenever a card has it's own name, think of it saying "This card can" So, in the example of someone somehow getting shame permanently attached to them as an ability, it would say "This card may only target each personality blah blah blah". However, if the ability gained was non permanent, say through the thunder dragon copying the ability on the personality, it could then target each turn, as it is a new ability. As an offshoot question, if P'an Ku copies an ability (like shame), then recopies the same ability next turn, does that make it a new ability and could he therefor target a dishonoured peep again with the inbuilt shame? On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 13:51:31 +0200, Philippe Duchon wrote: > Say a Personality (DON'T think of Doji Konishiko, or Marty won't > answer the question!) permanently gains, say, an ability from an > Action card that, under normal circumstances, can only be used once > (or once for each time something happens; think of Shame). > > Can the ability then be used once per turn, or more often than that? > Or does the restriction carry over to the gained ability? > > -- > > Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr > Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From isawaletomo at juno.com Mon Oct 4 02:11:33 2004 From: isawaletomo at juno.com (Lee T Boswell) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 00:11:33 -0600 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Sword of the Ronin. Message-ID: <20041004.001541.-242191.8.isawaletomo@juno.com> Announcing the first Sword tourney in Edmonton, Alberta! The Sword of the Ronin! In Remembrance of - and in Honour of the Memory of - Naka Kuro, the Great and Honoured Grand Master of the Elements, we, the Phoenix of the Far North do hold a tournament open to all Ronin! For the winner, a complete Daisho! In the city of Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, on the date of November 20, 2004. Sign in begins at 9:30, and game play begins at 11:00. This is a Diamond legal tournament. The winner shall receive a complete Daisho, second shall receive a Katana, and third shall receive a Tanto. Top four will receive a 3D Stronghold of their clan, and top eight will receive a 3D of their Wind. There will also be doorprizes given away between every round and throughout the day. Travel the path of the Musha Shugyo! In memory of the years [over half a century] Naka Kuro wandered the Empire, we will welcome any Samurai who walks the path of enlightenment in this way! Come, and meet others walking this path, ompare abilities, duel, enjoy a short respite on your path! There will be a simultaneous Challenge format tournament. This alternate Diamond Legal format will be played by anyone who wishes. Each player is allowed, at the beginning of the day, to substitute up to 5 total cards , or their stronghold, in their deck, with Open cards. Each Open card shall be considered Unique for deck building purposes. You may not challenge the same person more than once in a two hour period. To the person with the most wins in this format, shall go a battered Wakizashi, suitable for a person going on a Musha Shugyo! You may use a different deck from your Main tournament deck, or the same one. If you use the same one, and do substitiute cards, make sure to remove the open cards before you start the next round, or you will lose that round. The cards from Dawn of the Empire will be allowed as Open substitutes. Gaijin Market. There will be representatives of foreign lands there for comparison of Techniques, and display Gaijin wares. Naturally, these items will not be available for purchase, in accordance with Imperial law. I will have example decks and rulebooks of Legend of the Burning Sands available to be looked out, tried out, played. Take a look at this blast of the past! Information. This tournament will be held in the Edmonton room at Milner Library. That is in Edmonton at about 102 Ave, between 100 and 99 Street. The street address is 7 Sir Winston Churchill Square. Cost to enter is $30, or $25 if you pre-register with me or at Wizard's in Edmonton. For more information, contact Isawa Letomo [me], the coordinater of the event, at isawaletomo at juno.com . Part of all entry fees from tournaments in Edmonton will go toward more proze support for this! The next Edmonton tourney is Sunday, Oct. 10, at Wizards, at 12:30, for $5 Canadian. ________________ Isawa Letomo Phoenix clan Librarian-Shugenja Lee Boswell BH#1474 ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From passengerpigeon at mac.com Mon Oct 4 03:22:38 2004 From: passengerpigeon at mac.com (William Burke) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 00:22:38 -0700 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Permanently gained restricted abilities In-Reply-To: <2dd6b5240410032253760e546@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2B7E99FC-15D6-11D9-9C97-003065A79056@mac.com> On Sunday, October 3, 2004, at 10:53 PM, Apollyon no Oni wrote: > The restriction carries over, whenever a card has it's own name, think > of it saying "This card can" So, in the example of someone somehow > getting shame permanently attached to them as an ability, it would say > "This card may only target each personality blah blah blah". However, > if the ability gained was non permanent, say through the thunder > dragon copying the ability on the personality, it could then target > each turn, as it is a new ability. As an offshoot question, if P'an Ku > copies an ability (like shame), then recopies the same ability next > turn, does that make it a new ability and could he therefor target a > dishonoured peep again with the inbuilt shame? Shame: Political Limited: Target a dishonored Personality. That Personality's controller loses 7 Honor. No more copies of Shame may target that Personality until he is restored to honor and dishonored again. So the limitation is not relative to the ability, but relative to the card. In fact, technically, once you target somebody with a Shame printed on P'an Ku, you can't target that personality with any ability printed on P'an Ku, or any ability printed on an Egg (of P'an Ku) of P'an Ku, until he gets restored to honor and then dishonored. At least, that's what a strict reading suggests. --p _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From popejubal at yahoo.com Mon Oct 4 10:41:48 2004 From: popejubal at yahoo.com (Michael Wilson) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 07:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List Message-ID: <20041004144148.72638.qmail@web53401.mail.yahoo.com> I see that Gozoku Sensei has made it to the watch list. I'd like to know when Dan Tibbles will be added to the list. He is seriously overpowered. Pope Jubal Jubal no Oni Dark Oracle of Jell-O --- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jalexander at alderac.com Mon Oct 4 12:57:04 2004 From: jalexander at alderac.com (Jeff Alexander) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 09:57:04 -0700 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List/Errata update for October 1st, 2004 In-Reply-To: <000a01c4a856$141daf00$14433ed4@q> References: <000a01c4a856$141daf00$14433ed4@q> Message-ID: > >Does this mean there is no chance that a possible Gozoku Sensei >errata goes into effect >before December, 1st? Very little. > >The European Championship has to be played with this "slightly >overpowered" Gozoku Sensei ? Right. My advise is to expect it to be played as written. -- Jeff Alexander Lead Designer, L5R CCG Alderac Entertainment Group _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jalexander at alderac.com Mon Oct 4 13:24:16 2004 From: jalexander at alderac.com (Jeff Alexander) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:24:16 -0700 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Fwd from Jeff - Setai Sensei and entering playDishonored In-Reply-To: <000401c4a94e$90e31180$92306596@kyudenbayushi> References: <000401c4a94e$90e31180$92306596@kyudenbayushi> Message-ID: > > > The following was taken from the Entering Play section of the >> > Accumulated Rulings: "A player cannot gain honor from hiring a >> > Personality of his or her faction who enters play dishonored >> > (notwithstanding the rule that honor gains occur before a >> Personality >> > enters play). [Summary of other rulings; JA, 13 August 2002]" >> >> The difference is that, with Setai Sensei, the dishonoring is >> optional: you can opt not to have it happen. So, the normal >> rules for conflicting simultaneous effects come into effect: >> if the result is incompatible (like, the player gains Honor, >> but doesn't), the active player chooses which effect happens first. > >I really don't see how the dishonouring being optional makes any >difference. If the player using Setai so chooses, the personality >will *enter*play*dishonoured*. > >All that is relevent to this ruling is whether a personality entering >play is doing so dishonoured or not dishonoured. If it does indeed >enter play dishonoured then you cannot gain any honour. > >The facts seem quite clear to me. The Honor gain and the decision to dishonor him happen at the same time -- immediately before the Personality enters play. The Honor gain is based on his Personal Honor, which dishonoring him changes. You cannot gain Honor equal to an amount that is in the middle of changing from one number to another. So, the two effects can't be simultaneous. By Cardinal Rule #3, the active player decides which happens first: the Honor gain or the decision to make the Personality a dishonored Deathseeker. He may choose either. If the Lion is made a Deathseeker, he enters play dishonored, either way. However, if the player chose to gain Honor first, that gain stays. You do not go back in time and retroactively change the amount of the gain to 0. -- Jeff Alexander Lead Designer, L5R CCG Alderac Entertainment Group _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From togashi.shin at free.fr Mon Oct 4 13:24:03 2004 From: togashi.shin at free.fr (Togashi Imura) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:24:03 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG][Rules]Pay for a sl card, and chi bonus to followers. References: <20041004144148.72638.qmail@web53401.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006801c4aa36$f1bfc7d0$468ae78a@imuradono> Two random question on that filthy little dark thing that is names Shadowlands : 1/ Is paying for an action that bring a shadowland card into play, paying for a shadowland card ? ie : can Daigotsu Dojo pay for Jigoku Sensei ? Relevant texts : Daigotsu Dojo Bow Daigotsu Dojo to produce 3 Gold when paying for a Shadowlands card. Lose 3 Honor. Jigoku Sensei After revealing this Sensei, put up to nine non-Unique Oni Personalities from your deck face-down under it. Your deck must still be legal. You may not play non-Unique Oni Personalities from your Provinces. Limited: Pay 3 Gold and discard one of your Shugenja to put into play one of these Oni with lower Gold cost than the Shugenja's cost plus Chi, ignoring costs. 2/ Here is the situation : I have a suiteiru no oni with, say, five token from his action (1F Nonhuman Shadowlands Oni Follower tokens ). I play a Bloodspeaker Ambush... do my 1F followers become 2/+2 followers (thus giving my suiteiru +10 chi (+12 with the terrain)), or mere 2/2 followers (and suiteiru only gains 2 chi from the terrain) ? Relevant texts : Bloodspeaker Ambush Immediate Terrain Maho Battle: Destroy all other Terrains, Personalities and Followers with the Bloodspeaker or Shadowlands traits gain + 1F/+2C while at the battle. Lose 2 Honor. Suiteiru no Oni Oni. Nonhuman. Shadowlands Lose 4 Honor. Open: Destroy one of your unbowed Personalities to create a number of 1F Nonhuman Shadowlands Oni Follower tokens equal to the destroyed Personality's Chi and attach them to your Personalities. Lose Honor equal to the number of tokens created. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jalexander at alderac.com Mon Oct 4 13:33:28 2004 From: jalexander at alderac.com (Jeff Alexander) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:33:28 -0700 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Fwd from Jeff - Setai Sensei and entering playDishonored In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >It seems to me that the JA ruling from 2002 about not gaining honor if enter >play dishonored implies that the choice to pay full or 2 less happens at the >same time as the dishonor choice, but the effect of that choice (gaining >honor)doesn't happen until later, which doesn't invalidate anything. It was >in fact my initial basis for arguing that you do not gain the honor. The decision whether to reduce the cost of an in-Faction Personality by 2 happens during the "pay costs" step, along with producing Gold and Reactions such as The Hiruma Dojo's. Honor is gained if this option is not taken by the time the player declares he is finished paying costs, since the gain is before the Personality enters play and the Personality can't enter play until he's been paid for. >In addition if bringing a dynasty card into play from a province were >treated like any other action their would be a distinct procedure. > >Announce >Target (effectively uneccessary in most cases) >Pay Cost >Resolve > >Now you pay cost including deciding to change cost before you resolve the >effect of bringing a card into play and other ancilliary effects like gain >honor if paid full for personality of your faction/Bow holdings/etc. And >why should the dynasty phase have to have special rules that cause confusion >like this instead of opperating just like everything else. The design team >seems intrested in creating symetry in other aspects like the parallel of >battle and duel resolution. Why not here as well? Anything that affects a card's cost happens before or during the "pay costs" step . Anything that refers to a card entering play happens after, as that trigger does not exist until the cost is satisfied. I don't see an inconsistency. -- Jeff Alexander Lead Designer, L5R CCG Alderac Entertainment Group _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From kaioto at yahoo.com Mon Oct 4 13:07:59 2004 From: kaioto at yahoo.com (Martin Lund) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:07:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Rules for 29 September 2004 Message-ID: <20041004170759.65430.qmail@web54109.mail.yahoo.com> Your Rules for Wednesday, September 29, 2004 * * * * * * * * * * From:? William Burke Date:? Wed?Sep?29,?2004? 7:03 am Subject:? [L5R-CCG] Far and Wide does not work > Therefore, through the normal course of play, Far and Wide can never be > played, because you must ALWAYS discard regions if you do not attach > them during the Events Phase, and Far and Wide is a Limited action. > Far and Wide can be played only if, during the Events Phase or the > Action Phase, a card in a Province is discarded and then refilled and > turned face up. Far and Wide was written to work under Pre-Diamond Rules. With the onset of Diamond Edition, the card became almost non-functional. It happens sometimes. * * * * * * * * * * From:? mwhitman2 at c... Date:? Wed?Sep?29,?2004? 10:38 am Subject:? [L5R-CCG] Keen Eye questons > Can Keen Eye stop A Time is Not Right? I ruled that Keen Eye could not stop > Time is Not Right because Time is Not Right is triggered by the targeting step > of the action not the effects of the action. You ruled correctly. There is no Challenge until effects resolve, which is long after the Targeting Step. > Does Keen Eye stop Dismissed? Only if you use the ability on Dismissed that Negates a Challenge. Keen Eye can stop that, but not the ability on Dismissed that Cancels a Political Limited action like say, Storm Heart. > Keen Eye vs Smoke and Mirrors: If your Smoke and Mirrors has Keen Eye played > on it you still play/discard Smoke and Mirrors and it prodoces no effects > correct? Well, you play Smoke and Mirrors instead of Focusing. Then immediately before it produces effects, you use Keen Eye to Negate all its effects. It was still played, and takes your opportunity to Focus or Strike, but it produces no effects. > Say you have Ring of Fire in play. what if the only card you focused in a > duel was discarded by Smoke and Mirrors can you still draw a card from Ring of > Fire? You still focused the card, even if it was later discarded. That card counts towards the number you can draw with Ring of Fire. * * * * * * * * * * From:? Martin Lund Date:? Wed?Sep?29,?2004? 4:29 pm Subject:? Re: [L5R-CCG] RULES: Political Adjunct / Gozuko In short, using the Reaction on a card in the Current Battle to pay for the cost of a Battle or Open Action DOES NOT make that Battle or Open Action itself Relevant. You need Gozoku Sensei to fulfill Relevance through its own Action, regardless of where cards like Political Adjunct happen to be. * * * * * * * * * * From:? "Yoritomo Yojo" Date:? Wed?Sep?29,?2004? 6:31 pm Subject:? [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Smite the Blood > just wanna know if smite the blood would still bow the targetted personality > even if the range attack strength does not equal or exceed the peep's force. > that's all. It is just an additional effect. It doesn't matter how any other part of the Ranged Attack works out. You can shoot a beafy, 7 Force Tamago in the foot with a puny Strength 0 Ranged Attack that would bounce off harmlessly and still bow him by Smiting his Blood. * * * * * * * * * * That should cover everything from Wednesday, September 29, 2004. If I missed your question unrelated to Dawn of the Empire, please repost it with the flag [RULES] as part of your distinct and clear subject line. I'll get back to you at the first opportunity. Thank you, - Marty Lund Deputy Rules Monkey _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From rbowman at alderac.com Mon Oct 4 13:49:07 2004 From: rbowman at alderac.com (rbowman) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:49:07 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List In-Reply-To: <20041004144148.72638.qmail@web53401.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000301c4aa3a$7a150700$6602a8c0@yourpa86z1i3g7> Greetings, > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Wilson [mailto:popejubal at yahoo.com] > > I see that Gozoku Sensei has made it to the watch > list. I'd like to know when Dan Tibbles will be added > to the list. He is seriously overpowered. We are coping with him fine over here in Europe. I would say that is due to the different environments, but as all you Americans *know* Europe just sucks and now Dan has the Europe taint as well... ;P!! Take care, Rob _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From kaioto at yahoo.com Mon Oct 4 13:34:04 2004 From: kaioto at yahoo.com (Martin Lund) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:34:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Rules for 30 September Message-ID: <20041004173404.74690.qmail@web54108.mail.yahoo.com> Your Rules for Thursday, September 30, 2004 * * * * * * * * * * From:? Shosuro Laurecu Date:? Thu?Sep?30,?2004? 7:50 am Subject:? [L5R-CCG] Crystal mine and Money lenders > Yesterday i was playing and i bowed Crystal mine and moneylender to > make 6 gold, the other guy started telling me i can't do that because > the moneylender was not a Gold producing holding because it don't have > a number in the Gold Production part, It bows to produce gold under its own power (even if it is 0 Gold) and so it is a Gold Producing Holding. You can use an "empty" Moneylender with a Crystal Mine. * * * * * * * * * * From:? Martin Lund Date:? Thu?Sep?30,?2004? 11:32 am Subject:? [L5R-CCG] Fwd from Jeff - Dawn of the Empire Question from L5R-CCG Here you go, folks. Dawn of the Empire responses from Jeff. Enjoy! - Marty Lund Deputy Rules Monkey --- Jeff Alexander wrote: > Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:48:53 -0700 > To: "Kaioto" > From: Jeff Alexander > Subject: Re: Rules Question - FW: Dawn of the Empire > Question from L5R-CCG > > >This one's all you, Jeff! :) > > > >- Marty > > > >--- In L5R-CCG-Archive at yahoogroups.com, > NSchattman at a... wrote: > >Marty, > > > >Allways a pleasure being the only on in my local > play group with reliable > >computer access, so here are two Dawn Questions. I > realize you may need to > >bounce these up to Jeff, but here goes: > > > >Question one: > > > >Can Yukue and or Kajiko be bowed to pay for Kaimetsu-Uo? > > No. You are not paying to gain a Province. You are > paying to put a Personality into play. > > > >Question two is a question concerning the use of Otaku: > > > >Assume a range 3 attack targets and destroys a > >follower in Otaku's army. > > > >Does her ability create a range 3 attack she can > apply to a legal target in > >the opposing army? Or can she destroy any card in > the opposing army? Such as > >a 10f Kuon? Or a personality with followers > regardless of force? > > Yes, yes, yes. "The same effect" on Otaku refers to > the "destroyed, bowed, or moved home" clause. * * * * * * * * * * From:? Whitecat31 at a... Date:? Thu?Sep?30,?2004? 2:28 pm Subject:? [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Dawn plus Barbarian Wall > With the current rules and templating, when is the card drawn? for Way of the > Horse and Chariot. When you play the card on a target to gain the ability, > or when you use the permanent range attack ability in battle, or both, or > neither? To answer this in more general terms, the quotation marks are there for a reason. When a card says: Target Personality / Holding / Player gains, "Some ability text." Do something else. Then only the part in quotation marks in granted. Everything else sticks with the original Action. > Also.. this was not answered with a "yes" or "no" by Marty or Jeff, and my > question even had [Rules] in the subject line. > Does the Barbarian Wall's open action to change a province strength to its > base strength temporarily remove the permanent province strength bonus given > by Lessons From Earth. It is a simple Bonus / Penalty effect, like any other. It will completely wipe-out the bonus from Lessons >From Earth on the subject Province for the duration of the ability of Barbarian Wall (end of turn). > Same thing for Importune Kami. Same answer. * * * * * * * * * * From:? Martin Lund Date:? Thu?Sep?30,?2004? 4:15 pm Subject:? [L5R-CCG] Fwd from Jeff - Setai Sensei and entering play Dishonored Hey folks, Jeff got us a fast turnaround on this one. Enjoy highering all those Lions for honor and THEN dishonoring them. :) - Marty Lund Deputy Rules Monkey --- Jeff Alexander wrote: > Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 10:22:47 -0700 > To: "Kaioto" > From: Jeff Alexander > Subject: Re: Rules Question - Setai Sensei and > entering play Dishonored > > It is a case of conflicting simultaneous effects (an effect that > depends on a number, and a change to that number, > cannot occur at the same time). Active player decides the order. It > goes directly against intent and all playtest, but the rules are clear. > > > -- > Jeff Alexander > Lead Designer, L5R CCG > Alderac Entertainment Group * * * * * * * * * * That should cover everything from Thursday, September 30, 2004. If I missed your question unrelated to Dawn of the Empire, please repost it with the flag [RULES] as part of your distinct and clear subject line. I'll get back to you at the first opportunity. Thank you, - Marty Lund Deputy Rules Monkey _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From arthur at halavais.net Mon Oct 4 14:11:28 2004 From: arthur at halavais.net (Arthur Halavais) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:11:28 +0000 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Watch List Message-ID: <20041004181128.13248.qmail@station171.com> -------Original Message------- > From: > Subject: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 16, Issue 6 > Sent: 04 Oct 2004 16:00:00 > > Send L5r-ccg mailing list submissions to > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > > I see that Gozoku Sensei has made it to the watch > list. I'd like to know when Dan Tibbles will be added > to the list. He is seriously overpowered. > > Pope Jubal > Jubal no Oni > Dark Oracle of Jell-O > --- You obviously missed this argument the first time around. Design felt that Tibbles would be balanced by an errate to Unique. Of course, us players disagreed with them fully, but the higher powers have spoken. Hell, I'd be happy if they'd just errata him to be dual-aligned; Lion and Scorpion. Probably fit the taint in there somewhere, as well. Yogo Aroso * Scorpion Clan Shugenja * Really Unique _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From kaioto at yahoo.com Mon Oct 4 14:34:20 2004 From: kaioto at yahoo.com (Martin Lund) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Rules for 2 October 2004 Message-ID: <20041004183420.46851.qmail@web54103.mail.yahoo.com> Your Rules for Saturday, October 2, 2004 * * * * * * * * * * From:? Kitsuki Ikeda Date:? Sat?Oct?2,?2004? 12:39 pm Subject:? [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Earthly Yearnings > It's my opponent's turn, and I've got an Agasha Seruma > in play with Earthly Yearnings attached. During the > Action phase, the sequence of plays goes as follows: > > Opponent's first action: Bow Kakita Dueling Academy to > fetch an Iaijutsu Challenge. > > My action: Bow Seruma to cast Earthly Yearnings, > targeting my opponent's Doji Kurohito exp2. > > Opponent's action: Use Iaijutsu Challenge to have > Kurohito challenge Seruma to a duel. > > Once my opponent challenges Seruma, do I give Seruma > the Earthly Yearnings bonus in time for her to be able > to strike and kill Kurohito, or does Seruma only get > the bonus after the entire action resolves? "after each time that Samurai performs an action" is when to conditions are met: 1.) The Samurai has met the criteria to be "performing" the Action. 2.) The Action itself has been considered successfully "played" - that first considered true after all its costs are met and Reacted to, but before any of its effects resolve. In this case, both conditions are met before the Challenge is even issued to Seruma, so she'll get the bonus long before entering the duel with Kurohito. * * * * * * * * * * That should cover everything from Saturday, October 2, 2004. If I missed your question unrelated to Dawn of the Empire, please repost it with the flag [RULES] as part of your distinct and clear subject line. I'll get back to you at the first opportunity. Thank you, - Marty Lund Deputy Rules Monkey __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From tsunotakishi at yahoo.com Mon Oct 4 14:45:29 2004 From: tsunotakishi at yahoo.com (Daniel Tickle) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:45:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] [Rules] Costs of Personalities and Fury of the Dark Lord Message-ID: <20041004184529.96367.qmail@web61004.mail.yahoo.com> Ok, this will be composed with a straight forward question followed by a more detailed question that brought about the discussion at my house recently. Question: For Fury of the Dark Lord, it targets personalities gold cost, not necessarly printed gold cost, correct? Thus those people that say "Reduce this Card's Gold Cost By the highest personal honor among your personalities in play" makes the person more suspectable to Fury, correct? On another note, does the choice to bring in somebody at a reduced gold cost alter their gold cost until the end of the turn? In relation to the second part, the following scenerio was developed: 1. The Event "Interesting Times" is in play. 2. The opponent swaps Dynasty and Action Phases. 3. Opponent Bring in 8G Infantry Personalites for 6G each 4. During the Action phase I play Plans Within Plans 5. I play Fury of the Dark Lord Should this extremly unlikely scenerio appear, would the new people just brought out be affected by Fury, since their gold costs are reduced until the end of the turn, or is the gold cost the one just printed on the card. Thanks. Daniel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From kaioto at yahoo.com Mon Oct 4 14:25:41 2004 From: kaioto at yahoo.com (Martin Lund) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Rules for 1 October 2004 Message-ID: <20041004182541.74533.qmail@web54102.mail.yahoo.com> Your Rules for Friday, October 1, 2004 * * * * * * * * * * From:? Martin Lund Date:? Fri?Oct?1,?2004? 9:56 am Subject:? Re: [L5R-CCG] RULES - entering play dishonored Comments Below: --- Vangelis Kratsas wrote: > > Hi, > I would like to ask if this ruling means that the > rulebook phrase "(The Personal Honor of a > Personality who "enters play dishonored" is 0 for > this purpose.)" is completely negated in all cases > (Toturi etc.). As I understand it, there are two > different cases (please correct me if I'm wrong): [MARTY] This only applies to Setai Sensei, because Setai Sensei involves a choice as to whether or not the personality enters play dishonored, and until that choice is made, the personality is NOT entering play dishonored. That choice happens to have the same timing as the Honor Gain for bringing a personality into play, so you have Conflicting Simultaneous Effects. Active player chooses which order to resolve them in, and the active player will typically choose to gain the Honor before he has to choose between Dishonor and -1F. * * * * * * * * * * From:? "Jorge Ribeiro" Date:? Sat?Oct?2,?2004? 9:47 am Subject:? [L5R-CCG] RULES - Kyuden Agasha > What's the gold cost of the zero gold cost spells in Kyuden Agasha? > Is it zero as in the spell or is it one due to Kyuden Agasha? Kyuden Agasha says, "All Spells you own cost 2 less Gold, to a minimum of 1." That's an effect with a minimum modification. That 2 Gold Reduction from Kyuden Agasha can not carry a Spell's cost below 1. Since the Spell's cost is already less than 1, the minimum value for the reduction won't matter. * * * * * * * * * * From:? Jos? Miguel Diniz Martins Date:? Fri?Oct?1,?2004? 3:05 pm Subject:? [L5R-CCG] Direct Assault after Archer Squad > Can I bow a unit that has his personality bowed? > Example: I have an army with 4 bushi with 1 follower > each. I play archer squad and bow the personalities for > the ranged attacks, then i play direct assault. Can I > bow the units with unbowed followers for the action or > must the personality be unbowed for that. Direct > assault says "bow a unit", not "bow a personality", so > if I have unbowed followers does that count as unbowed > units? A Unit is a Personality and all his or her attached cards (Diamond Edition Rulebook, page 105). If any of those cards are not unbowed, then the unit is not bowed. If any of those cards do not go from unbowed to bowed status, then you have not "bowed a unit." So, if the Personality, Follower, Item, or Ancestor in a given unit is bowed, you can't pay the cost "bow a unit" (such as that of Direct Assault) by just bowing the remaining cards in the unit. * * * * * * * * * * From:? Szaszk? M?rton Date:? Fri?Oct?1,?2004? 4:56 pm Subject:? [L5R-CCG] [RULES]Question > Let's say that a player has Kakita Chiyeko bowed in a battle. He plays > a Steel on Steel, using Chiyeko's Reaction, but his opponent negates > the unbowing with Victory of the Wolf. What happens in this situation? He's failed to pay the Cost of the Action. The Diamond Edition Rulebook, page 72, paragraph 3, addresses this. To summarize, the player gets Steel on Steel back wherever it came from (probably his hand), no other costs are refunded, and the attempt is Canceled. The next player now gets an opportunity to take a Battle or Open Action, or Pass. The player whose Action was canceled does not count as having Passed. * * * * * * * * * * From:? "Robert McChesney" Date:? Fri?Oct?1,?2004? 6:38 pm Subject:? [L5R-CCG] rule- katsu experienced > I'd like to know if its possible to bring katsu twice back from your discard > pile. > situation: > katsu is dead in my discard pile with a copy of him trough egg of panku. I > bow my stronghold to bring katsu into play and straiten my stronghold with > hero's grave. Can i bring then my egg into play since the katsu says to > ignore all costs and restrictions? This looks more like a question of whether or not you can bring a second copy of Katsu into play. Since Katsu says, 'Ignoring all costs and restrictions,' you can ignore the restriction of the Uniqueness Rule. You could even bring back your Katsu and Egg of Katsu by this special ability when your opponent has his Katsu in play. * * * * * * * * * * From:? "Arthur Halavais" Date:? Fri?Oct?1,?2004? 8:30 pm Subject:? [L5R-CCG] [Rules] Implied Traits > Since I cna't seem to find a list anywhere, would it be possible to see a > comprehensive list of all currently effective Implied Traits? Page 65 of the Diamond Edition Rulebook handles the implicitness issues with Faction Traits. The Glossary also has some relevant entries under the various traits, such as Undead, Ratling, Mujina, Oni, Human, Infantry, Cavalry, Diplomat / Courtier, and Creature. * * * * * * * * * * From:? "Arthur Halavais" Date:? Fri?Oct?1,?2004? 10:41 pm Subject:? [L5R-CCG] [rules] Patronage > The personality bowing to bay the cost of Patronage is considered to be > performing it, correct? Yes, he's bowing as a cost of playing the Action. > If this is the case, and said personality were dishonored, would the > Patronage rehonor them instead of creating the 2 honor at end of turn? Yes * * * * * * * * * * That should cover everything from Friday, October 1, 2004. If I missed your question unrelated to Dawn of the Empire, please repost it with the flag [RULES] as part of your distinct and clear subject line. I'll get back to you at the first opportunity. Thank you, - Marty Lund Deputy Rules Monkey __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From kaioto at yahoo.com Mon Oct 4 14:56:37 2004 From: kaioto at yahoo.com (Martin Lund) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:56:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Rules for 3 October 2004 Message-ID: <20041004185637.63641.qmail@web54103.mail.yahoo.com> Your Rules for Sunday, October 3, 2004 * * * * * * * * * * From:? Philippe Duchon Date:? Sun?Oct?3,?2004? 7:51 am Subject:? [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Permanently gained restricted abilities > Say a Personality (DON'T think of Doji Konishiko, or Marty won't > answer the question!) permanently gains, say, an ability from an > Action card that, under normal circumstances, can only be used once > (or once for each time something happens; think of Shame). I've been contemplating a personal moratorium on answering anything with the faintest stench of Blessings of Isawa on it. That'll show you. ;) > Can the ability then be used once per turn, or more often than that? > Or does the restriction carry over to the gained ability? You get the whole pile of text of the ability. If you copy Shame, and use it, then no more copies of [this card name] can target the victim of the Shame-clone-ability until the Personality is re-honored and dishonored again. You could, however, hit them with a "regular" shame in addition to the clone-shame-ability. * * * * * * * * * * From:? "Loki" Date:? Sun?Oct?3,?2004? 3:14 pm Subject:? [L5R-CCG] Brutal Confrontation + Same Old Tricks question > I have a really simple question about the interaction between The Same Old > Tricks and Brutal Confrontation : can the former cancel the latter if its > action is used more than once ? I would assume it can't, but I just want to > be sure. If you manage to dig Brutal Confrontation out of your Discard Pile and play it again in the same turn, sure, you can cancel its Battle Action. However, the Same Old Tricks won't avail you at all against the Battle Actions that Brutal Confrontation gives to Players. Those are not abilities considered to be played off of the Brutal Confrontation card. They sort of just hang out in the etherium as a game rule modification with a certain duration, sort of like picking up a Star Man in Super Mario Brothers. :) * * * * * * * * * * That should cover everything from Sunday, October 3, 2004. If I missed your question unrelated to Dawn of the Empire, please repost it with the flag [RULES] as part of your distinct and clear subject line. I'll get back to you at the first opportunity. Thank you, - Marty Lund Deputy Rules Monkey __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From shinjo_eien at yahoo.com Mon Oct 4 15:27:00 2004 From: shinjo_eien at yahoo.com (Shinjo Eien) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:27:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [L5R-CCG] [Rules] Costs of Personalities and Fury of the Dark Lord In-Reply-To: <20041004184529.96367.qmail@web61004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20041004192700.92892.qmail@web51604.mail.yahoo.com> Perhaps it would help to read the card in question. Fury of the Dark Lord: Limited: Destroy all non-Creature Infantry Personalities with a printed Gold cost less than 7 and all non-Creature Cavalry Personalities with a printed gold cost less than 8. Then remove all Personalities in discard piles from the game. It is right there on the card, "printed". So no to all of your sceanarios. Daniel Tickle wrote: Ok, this will be composed with a straight forward question followed by a more detailed question that brought about the discussion at my house recently. Question: For Fury of the Dark Lord, it targets personalities gold cost, not necessarly printed gold cost, correct? Thus those people that say "Reduce this Card's Gold Cost By the highest personal honor among your personalities in play" makes the person more suspectable to Fury, correct? On another note, does the choice to bring in somebody at a reduced gold cost alter their gold cost until the end of the turn? In relation to the second part, the following scenerio was developed: 1. The Event "Interesting Times" is in play. 2. The opponent swaps Dynasty and Action Phases. 3. Opponent Bring in 8G Infantry Personalites for 6G each 4. During the Action phase I play Plans Within Plans 5. I play Fury of the Dark Lord Should this extremly unlikely scenerio appear, would the new people just brought out be affected by Fury, since their gold costs are reduced until the end of the turn, or is the gold cost the one just printed on the card. Thanks. Daniel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com Jeremy Gibbs Shinjo Eien 4F 4C -HR 8GC 0PH Unicorn Clan Villian - Kolat - Courtier - Unique Lose 4 honor. While Eien is in play, honor losses from your Kolat cards and Kolat effects are reduced by 2. Open: Bow Eien to prevent a Personality whose Chi has not been reduced this game from dropping below 1. They have -3F/-2C permanently. "When darkness descends, a man must find allies in the shadows." --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From tanon.denis at numericable.fr Mon Oct 4 15:25:26 2004 From: tanon.denis at numericable.fr (TANON DENIS) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:25:26 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BRULES=5D=3AMoshi_Kekiesu_+_Shosuku_se?= =?iso-8859-1?q?nse=EF?= Message-ID: <002501c4aa47$eb283fe0$80fbd852@bart> Hi, Can I use the reaction of Shosuku sense? on a range attack performed by Moshi Kekiesu. I know it will not increase Kekiesu's range attack, but is it still legal to do this ? Yoritomo kalim?ro -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From duchon.philippe at free.fr Mon Oct 4 15:36:25 2004 From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:36:25 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [Rules] More fun with copying In-Reply-To: <20041004185637.63641.qmail@web54103.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041004185637.63641.qmail@web54103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20041004213625.7ccdc8c6.duchon.philippe@free.fr> On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:56:37 -0700 (PDT) Martin Lund wrote: > > Say a Personality (DON'T think of Doji Konishiko, or Marty won't > > answer the question!) permanently gains, say, an ability from an > > Action card that, under normal circumstances, can only be used once > > (or once for each time something happens; think of Shame). > > I've been contemplating a personal moratorium on > answering anything with the faintest stench of > Blessings of Isawa on it. That'll show you. ;) > > > Can the ability then be used once per turn, or more often than that? > > Or does the restriction carry over to the gained ability? > > You get the whole pile of text of the ability. If you > copy Shame, and use it, then no more copies of [this > card name] can target the victim of the > Shame-clone-ability until the Personality is > re-honored and dishonored again. > > You could, however, hit them with a "regular" shame in > addition to the clone-shame-ability. > OK. I assume, if I Egg the modified Personality, since the name is also copied, I won't be able to Koni-er-clone-Shame them again. What if the copied ability is on a Personality who changes its name? Say, I copy the modified Personality's ability with a P'anPersonality who can (hypothetically) permanently copy an ability, and Egg that P'anPersonality: I get two different Personalities, both with the same name, so their uses are exclusive. But what if one of them changes its name to, say, Many-Temple Master? -- Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From daimyo_shi at yahoo.com Mon Oct 4 18:26:54 2004 From: daimyo_shi at yahoo.com (Doji Hajime) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:26:54 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List In-Reply-To: <20041004144148.72638.qmail@web53401.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041004144148.72638.qmail@web53401.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4161CE2E.8020901@yahoo.com> Dan should be added to the watch list! of course Dan will be happy that he on the watch list! Suggest Errata for Dan Tibbles: All cards played by Dan are considered to have the Shadowlands Taint. If Dan has taken more than two provinces in a single turn, he loses a turn Dan cannot play strongholds or person allies that are not Shadowlands or Lion Michael Wilson wrote: >I see that Gozoku Sensei has made it to the watch >list. I'd like to know when Dan Tibbles will be added >to the list. He is seriously overpowered. > >Pope Jubal >Jubal no Oni >Dark Oracle of Jell-O >--- > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > >_______________________________________________ >L5r-ccg mailing list >L5r-ccg at alderac.com >http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > > > -- Doji Hajime Crane Clan Iaijutsu master . Samurai . Double Chi . Unique . Experienced . Legion of the Jade Hand . Legion of the White Lion "If you are loyal to your lord, you should lie, murder, steal, and cheat for him. If you rather commit Seppaku than do those things how loyal are you really?" Soshi Hakiko Head Sensei of the Crying Dojo in Toshi Ranbo In morning of Toturi II _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From saberinc at prodigy.net Mon Oct 4 18:48:03 2004 From: saberinc at prodigy.net (Eric Devlin) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:48:03 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Update References: <20041004144148.72638.qmail@web53401.mail.yahoo.com> <4161CE2E.8020901@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <013e01c4aa64$360957d0$dfece704@s> Howdy, A really cool update: Ultimat Vodka is now one of the donors for the Oct. 30th Storyline Charity Tournament. They are sending some HUGELY cool stuff (including one item we can give to someone under 21). We also can now confirm that Eden Studios, Atlas Games and Mongoose Publishing are now supporting the event. As a reminder, you can purchase raffle tickets online for this great cause at www.koteis.com We will ship your prize to you. Eric Devlin Team Whiplash www.koteis.com saberinc at prodigy.net _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From mls14 at mac.com Mon Oct 4 21:31:05 2004 From: mls14 at mac.com (Matthew Smith) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:31:05 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Foo rule - Family Token Message-ID: <399CE188-166E-11D9-ACE5-0003939CD690@mac.com> I was wondering if I could destroy the item "Family Token" with the spell Tengoku's Gate or move it with Sympathetic Energies, per the foo rule. Matthew _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From nolian_wolfrider at hotmail.com Tue Oct 5 02:51:16 2004 From: nolian_wolfrider at hotmail.com (Ben Henderson) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:51:16 -0700 Subject: [L5R-CCG] re:setai sensei Message-ID: Well, according to the rulebook, it says that personalities entering play dishonored are zero. Since setai sensei creates a choice as to how a personality enters play, it would seem that you'd have to wait for the choice made by the player to be made before determining weather you receive honor. You don't know how it's going to enter, and when something is dependent on how it will enter, you'd have to wait for that to be resolved first, you can't just skip ahead because the personality hasn't entered play yet. It's more like setai sensei creates an additional step. You pay the cost, you determine how the personality enters play, then it enters play. So gaining honor woulc actually happen AFTER setai sensei had done its thing. And because of this, I'd say you shouldn't gain honor for the personality even if you payed full. It just seems that if you say that personalities that enter play dishonored can open up a can of worms because it basically means that the rulebook (without being errated or whatever) is wrong and can't be referred to anymore. _________________________________________________________________ Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From kaishu320 at hotmail.com Tue Oct 5 04:44:50 2004 From: kaishu320 at hotmail.com (albert fernandez) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 08:44:50 +0000 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [Rules] Shosuku Sensei + Kolat Assassin Message-ID: Hello, I am a Mantis Player with Shosuku Sensei. I have 10 Family Honor. I have played a Kolat Assassin. After it I will have: a) 4 Family Honor, due to 4 loss from Kolat plus 2 from Shosuku Sensei b) 6 Family Honor, due to 4 loss from Kolat. The Sensei make Honor losses when "you lose Honor from one of your other cards", and the Kolat is never in play and then isn't "one of YOUR other cards" c) other. Please explain Thanks, _________________________________________________________________ La informaci?n m?s fresca desde diferentes puntos de vista en la Revista de Prensa de MSN. http://es.newsbot.msn.com/ _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From togashi.shin at free.fr Tue Oct 5 04:47:18 2004 From: togashi.shin at free.fr (Togashi Imura) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:47:18 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [Rules] Shosuku Sensei + Kolat Assassin References: Message-ID: <003b01c4aab7$ebe691f0$468ae78a@imuradono> It was already ruled (by jeff) that b) holds Togashi Imura ----- Original Message ----- From: "albert fernandez" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 10:44 AM Subject: [L5R-CCG] [Rules] Shosuku Sensei + Kolat Assassin > Hello, > > I am a Mantis Player with Shosuku Sensei. I have 10 Family Honor. I have > played a Kolat Assassin. > > After it I will have: > > a) 4 Family Honor, due to 4 loss from Kolat plus 2 from Shosuku Sensei > b) 6 Family Honor, due to 4 loss from Kolat. The Sensei make Honor losses > when "you lose Honor from one of your other cards", and the Kolat is never > in play and then isn't "one of YOUR other cards" > c) other. Please explain > > Thanks, > > _________________________________________________________________ > La informaci?n m?s fresca desde diferentes puntos de vista en la Revista de > Prensa de MSN. http://es.newsbot.msn.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > > _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From lord.goonie at laposte.net Tue Oct 5 07:18:40 2004 From: lord.goonie at laposte.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gu=E9na=EBl DANTIN?=) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:18:40 +0100 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: [Rules] More fun with copying Message-ID: <416173550005B004@lpdnpm05.laposte.net> (added by postmaster@laposte.net) >On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:56:37 -0700 (PDT) >Martin Lund wrote: > >> > Say a Personality (DON'T think of Doji Konishiko, or Marty won't >> > answer the question!) permanently gains, say, an ability from an >> > Action card that, under normal circumstances, can only be used once >> > (or once for each time something happens; think of Shame). >> >> I've been contemplating a personal moratorium on >> answering anything with the faintest stench of >> Blessings of Isawa on it. That'll show you. ;) More about Konishiko : I bring her into play and copy a random political action. Later in the game, i copy her with the Egg ; can the Egg use Konichiko's copied reaction while entering play, thus gaining a second copied political ability ? I now copy Konishiko's reaction with any personality that can do so (Pan'Ku or Shapeshifter...), destroy said personality and play feign death, or Kisada's Shrine if i managed to give him Yu, or whatever that brings him back in play, and permanently acquires an action. I guess i can do so again on my next turn with the same personality ? Togashi Goonie, tattooed monk _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From moebliss at gci.net Tue Oct 5 09:02:50 2004 From: moebliss at gci.net (R & H Moeller) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 05:02:50 -0800 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Rules questions Message-ID: <007b01c4aadb$9eaf8800$6401a8c0@moeller1> Are senseis considered cards? Will purity of the seven thunders destroy the jiggoku sensei? If a shugenja is dishonored when it is discarded using the jiggoku sensei, will they stay dishonored if they reentered play _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From ninjadebugger at cox.net Tue Oct 5 10:27:29 2004 From: ninjadebugger at cox.net (ninjadebugger) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:27:29 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] re:setai sensei References: Message-ID: <0be501c4aae7$71d10eb0$f5a60d44@Skuld> > It's more like setai sensei creates an additional step. You pay the cost, > you determine how the personality enters play, then it enters play. So > gaining honor woulc actually happen AFTER setai sensei had done its thing. > And because of this, I'd say you shouldn't gain honor for the personality > even if you payed full. Rule number one of making and interpreting the rules. Thou shalt not introduce additional steps. The rulings are QUITE clear on what happens when you have two conflicting traits with the same timing. Why do you need to introduce an additional step? Because it's "wrong" for you to be able to gain honor for people you're going to dishonor? Because it wasn't playtested that way? Bull. The rules are the rules, and if you want to step outside them and create new steps, you have to errata either the rules or the card. That's errata, not a ruling. There's a big difference. One is made to clear up uncertanties, the other is made to fix an overpowered card. Setai Sensei is in no way overpowered. Akodo Makoto Lion Clan Cannibal _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From lyversj at bellsouth.net Tue Oct 5 11:36:00 2004 From: lyversj at bellsouth.net (James Lyvers) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:36:00 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Fwd from Jeff - Setai Sensei and entering playDishonored In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Anything that affects a card's cost happens before or during the "pay costs" step . Anything that refers to a card entering play happens after, as that trigger does not exist until the cost is satisfied. I don't see an inconsistency. -- Jeff Alexander Lead Designer, L5R CCG Alderac Entertainment Group ************************************************************** OK, doesn't that mean that because the gain honor part of the rule references before comming into play, that it would happen after paying costs, therefore you would have to make the decision for how much to pay and by implication to gain honor before actually gaining the honor. And would it not be that choice (not the honor gain) which is made at the same time as the deathseeker choice? As I initially described? Honestly if it was not designers intent, and it seems to me that it is the rule that is unclear on the order of bringing a dynasty card into play. Instead of making a bad ruling, would it not be better to just fix the rule? Maybe something like this, which I claim no rights to. "If you are bringing a personality with your faction trait into play you may reduce that personalities cost by 2. If you do not reduce the personalities cost by 2, then when the personality enters play gain honor equal to the personalities personal honor before they entered play. A personality 'entering play dishonored' has 0 personal honor for this purpose." Character/Word Count for replacement rule: 361/57 Character/Word Count for original rule: 293/53 Most of the difference in character count is in using "personality" instead of using the pronoun "his". On that particular page in the current rulebook there are 2 lines of blank text, more than enough take up the slack. Does this not more closely resemble how it has worked for so long, while still maintaining the integrity of previous rulings, with the exception of this ruling? Which I can tell you the group of players I run with disagree with this ruling 100%. Akodo James _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From lyversj at bellsouth.net Tue Oct 5 11:56:10 2004 From: lyversj at bellsouth.net (James Lyvers) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:56:10 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [Rules] Costs of Personalities and Fury of the Dark Lord In-Reply-To: <20041004192700.92892.qmail@web51604.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Even if it didn't I believe the rule book says the reduction only lasts until you bring them into play, not till end of turn. Akodo James -----Original Message----- From: L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com [mailto:L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com]On Behalf Of Shinjo Eien Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 3:27 PM To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] [Rules] Costs of Personalities and Fury of the Dark Lord Perhaps it would help to read the card in question. Fury of the Dark Lord: Limited: Destroy all non-Creature Infantry Personalities with a printed Gold cost less than 7 and all non-Creature Cavalry Personalities with a printed gold cost less than 8. Then remove all Personalities in discard piles from the game. It is right there on the card, "printed". So no to all of your sceanarios. Daniel Tickle wrote: Ok, this will be composed with a straight forward question followed by a more detailed question that brought about the discussion at my house recently. Question: For Fury of the Dark Lord, it targets personalities gold cost, not necessarly printed gold cost, correct? Thus those people that say "Reduce this Card's Gold Cost By the highest personal honor among your personalities in play" makes the person more suspectable to Fury, correct? On another note, does the choice to bring in somebody at a reduced gold cost alter their gold cost until the end of the turn? In relation to the second part, the following scenerio was developed: 1. The Event "Interesting Times" is in play. 2. The opponent swaps Dynasty and Action Phases. 3. Opponent Bring in 8G Infantry Personalites for 6G each 4. During the Action phase I play Plans Within Plans 5. I play Fury of the Dark Lord Should this extremly unlikely scenerio appear, would the new people just brought out be affected by Fury, since their gold costs are reduced until the end of the turn, or is the gold cost the one just printed on the card. Thanks. Daniel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com Jeremy Gibbs Shinjo Eien 4F 4C -HR 8GC 0PH Unicorn Clan Villian - Kolat - Courtier - Unique Lose 4 honor. While Eien is in play, honor losses from your Kolat cards and Kolat effects are reduced by 2. Open: Bow Eien to prevent a Personality whose Chi has not been reduced this game from dropping below 1. They have -3F/-2C permanently. "When darkness descends, a man must find allies in the shadows." --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jalexander at alderac.com Tue Oct 5 14:21:04 2004 From: jalexander at alderac.com (Jeff Alexander) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:21:04 -0700 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Fwd from Jeff - Setai Sensei and entering playDishonored In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This will be my last post on the topic. >Anything that affects a card's cost happens before or during the "pay >costs" step . Anything that refers to a card entering play happens >after, as that trigger does not exist until the cost is satisfied. I >don't see an inconsistency. >-- >Jeff Alexander >Lead Designer, L5R CCG >Alderac Entertainment Group > >************************************************************** > >OK, doesn't that mean that because the gain honor part of the rule >references before comming into play, that it would happen after paying >costs, therefore you would have to make the decision for how much to pay and >by implication to gain honor before actually gaining the honor. Yes. That matches what I said earlier in the post you quote. >And would it >not be that choice (not the honor gain) which is made at the same time as >the deathseeker choice? As I initially described? No. That does not logically follow. The decision whether to reduce the Personality's cost by 2 must be made while his cost is being paid, otherwise it wouldn't actually help buy him. The Honor gain if this option is not exercised happens immediately before the Personality enters play, by rulebook text. The Personality does not enter play until after his cost has been fully paid, by fundamental game rules. So, no, you don't gain Honor the moment you say "I'm not making him 2 Gold cheaper". By card and rulebook text, you gain Honor at the same time you decide whether to dishonor him from the Sensei, at a time when the Honor gain effect is locked in by an earlier decision. >Honestly if it was not designers intent, and it seems to me that it is the >rule that is unclear on the order of bringing a dynasty card into play. >Instead of making a bad ruling, would it not be better to just fix the rule? Because it would be errata either way, and it is not clear that errata is necessary to govern the card's accidentally greater strength for the good of the game as a whole. The #1 rule of errata is that errata is worse than no errata. Period. We don't have a glaring game balance issue. We have a direct and unambiguous answer straight from the rulebook. We don't need errata. -- Jeff Alexander Lead Designer, L5R CCG Alderac Entertainment Group _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jalexander at alderac.com Tue Oct 5 14:41:57 2004 From: jalexander at alderac.com (Jeff Alexander) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:41:57 -0700 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Strike with no Shadow. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The final sentence of this card, "You may increase this card's Gold cost by 2 to shuffle it into your deck instead of discarding it after playing it." is not an effect. It addresses how the card is played, much like the final sentence, "Play this card only if you have a Terrain in play for this battle." on Well Prepared. The templating rules still in place for Wrath of the Emperor sometimes place these sentences last on a card, which has created ambiguity here. To get Strike with No Shadow to shuffle into your deck after you play it, the extra 2 Gold cost must be added while the card is being paid for. -- Jeff Alexander Lead Designer, L5R CCG Alderac Entertainment Group _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From patryn150 at sunflower.com Tue Oct 5 15:02:20 2004 From: patryn150 at sunflower.com (Alex Hawman) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 14:02:20 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Strike with no Shadow. In-Reply-To: ; from jalexander@alderac.com on Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:41:57 -0700 Message-ID: <200410051902.i95J2KHe003104@webmail.sunflower.com> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available Url: http://h4x0r5.com/pipermail/l5rinfo/attachments/20041005/e12e3f75/attachment.diff From saberinc at prodigy.net Tue Oct 5 16:52:57 2004 From: saberinc at prodigy.net (Eric Devlin) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 16:52:57 -0400 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Important Prereg Info References: <200410051902.i95J2KHe003104@webmail.sunflower.com> Message-ID: <016301c4ab1d$4c46dbd0$61eee704@s> Hi, We are receiving a wide array of material to include in the attendee gift bags for the Oct. 30th Storyline Charity Tournament. Our problem is the depth of supply of these items. The priority for the gift bags will be given to those that preregister for the event. There is a TON of stuff going into the prereg bags and we are working hard to ensure that each bag contains more in dollar value than the cost of entry. That is a FANTASTIC bargain. In addition, we are going to have certain raffle items available JUST to those people that preregister. We have a huge prize pool and this is going to be a remarkable event. Your preregistering helps us out greatly and we would appreciate your assistance. You can preregister through our website via paypal: www.koteis.com You can also preregister by sending a check or money order to: Kevin Christopher 70 Timothy Drive Middletown Ct. 06457 Event Info: Full Storyline Tournament: One character from KYD will enter i