From duchon.philippe at free.fr Sat Jan 1 07:27:17 2005 From: duchon.philippe at free.fr (Philippe Duchon) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 13:27:17 +0100 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [Rules] Reactions , Prescence, Iyaken In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050101132717.1f89a364.duchon.philippe@free.fr> On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 00:23:24 -0600 "E.X dvnc corp" wrote: > Ok Say I'm attacking during a Raid, I'm completely unopposed, and I bow > Iyaken to bow an unopposed personality. Can my opponent Flee the > Darkness?? Don't see why not. > > Just in general asking about reactions in battles where you have no > units. Ah, so that's what it is... > > I know reacting to cancel something gives you Relevance, but since it > really doesn't' satisfy Prescence, is it illegal? or do you even need to > worry about either? > Presence and Relevance only apply to Open and Battle actions, not Reactions. -- Philippe Duchon -- duchon.philippe at free.fr Scorpion Clan Crypto-Geek _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Kirbdog53 at aol.com Sat Jan 1 11:07:19 2005 From: Kirbdog53 at aol.com (Kirbdog53 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 11:07:19 EST Subject: [L5R-CCG] Unicorn Rules Question #1 Message-ID: <141.3c52cf0f.2f0824b7@aol.com> I have Shinjo Suboto face up in my provinces. My opponent plays Ambush on one of my Personalities. Can I bring Suboto into play, either in the Ambush battle or in my fief? Moto Gahrie _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Kirbdog53 at aol.com Sat Jan 1 11:22:50 2005 From: Kirbdog53 at aol.com (Kirbdog53 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 11:22:50 EST Subject: [L5R-CCG] Unicorn Rules Question #2 Message-ID: Set up: I am playing Khol Wall. I have two Shinjo Loruko's in play. I have 5 or 6 regions in play. I have Moto Latomu exp in play. My opponent has two 3F chump blockers in play. I attack my opponent's provinces A & B. Neither has a Region attached. He assigns one of his chump blockers to each Province, I assign a Loruko to each province, and keep Latomu exp in my Fief. I resolve Province A first, and play Sneak Attack. I us e the Khol Wall Action and switch the location of my two Lorukos. Question 1: Can I place a generic Region at both Provinces (or just the active battle) using Loruko's reaction to movement? Question 2: Can I produce a Ranged Attack at both Provinces (or just the active battle) using Latomu's Reaction to movement? Question 3: Besides affecting the strength of the Ranged Attack, does it matter which order I resolve the reactions in? Moto Gahrie _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From beattyr2003 at earthlink.net Sat Jan 1 11:40:26 2005 From: beattyr2003 at earthlink.net (Robert Beatty) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 11:40:26 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Unicorn Rules Question #1 References: <141.3c52cf0f.2f0824b7@aol.com> Message-ID: <001601c4f020$9a0539f0$198a79a5@DFDWZP21> ----- Original Message ----- From: >I have Shinjo Suboto face up in my provinces. My opponent plays Ambush on > one of my Personalities. Can I bring Suboto into play, either in the > Ambush > battle or in my fief? > Unicorn Clan Bushi . Cavalry Battle: Pay Suboto's Gold cost if you are not the Defender: If Suboto is face-up in one of your Provinces and will be opposed, bring him into play in the current battle. Yep, doesnt count as movement. Just like Gaki-do Bayushi Daremo Scorpion Clan *Ninja* Samurai Troublemaker Shadowed Tower *Bloodspeaker* _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From beattyr2003 at earthlink.net Sat Jan 1 11:46:45 2005 From: beattyr2003 at earthlink.net (Robert Beatty) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 11:46:45 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Unicorn Rules Question #2 References: Message-ID: <001a01c4f021$7c2c6dd0$198a79a5@DFDWZP21> ----- Original Message ----- From: > Set up: I am playing Khol Wall. I have two Shinjo Loruko's in play. I have > 5 > or 6 regions in play. I have Moto Latomu exp in play. My opponent has two > 3F > chump blockers in play. > > I attack my opponent's provinces A & B. Neither has a Region attached. He > assigns one of his chump blockers to each Province, I assign a Loruko to > each > province, and keep Latomu exp in my Fief. > > I resolve Province A first, and play Sneak Attack. I us e the Khol Wall > Action and switch the location of my two Lorukos. > > Question 1: Can I place a generic Region at both Provinces (or just the > active battle) using Loruko's reaction to movement? Yes. > > Question 2: Can I produce a Ranged Attack at both Provinces (or just the > active battle) using Latomu's Reaction to movement? No. Ranged attacks must target a card in the current battle unless specifically waived by card text. This is an old ruling for Latomu from around April/May of this past year. > > Question 3: Besides affecting the strength of the Ranged Attack, does it > matter which order I resolve the reactions in? Nope, since theres only one legal one outside of the active battle. > Moto Gahrie Bayushi Daremo Scorpion Clan *Ninja* Samurai Troublemaker _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From oberg_james at charter.net Sat Jan 1 12:06:23 2005 From: oberg_james at charter.net (james oberg) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 11:06:23 -0600 Subject: [L5R-CCG] bowing a bowed card Message-ID: <001d01c4f024$393a0890$6501a8c0@ccdm20ctfou1rr> Ok since its been brought up with nizomi the question is. can an opponent bow a bowed card. several examples comes to mind. Tsuruchi Iyaken Bow Iyaken: Target an unopposed Personality. Bow him. Can i use this on an already bowed personality. The only reason I bring this up is because of the ruling on Nizomi wher you bow 2 times instead of dying from the dragon sensei. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Whitecat31 at aol.com Sat Jan 1 15:18:26 2005 From: Whitecat31 at aol.com (Whitecat31 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 15:18:26 EST Subject: [L5R-CCG] Unicorn Rules Question #1 Message-ID: <12c.544f490e.2f085f92@aol.com> In a message dated 1/1/2005 8:42:32 AM Pacific Standard Time, beattyr2003 at earthlink.net writes: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > >I have Shinjo Suboto face up in my provinces. My opponent plays Ambush on > >one of my Personalities. Can I bring Suboto into play, either in the > >Ambush > >battle or in my fief? > > > Unicorn Clan Bushi . Cavalry > Battle: Pay Suboto's Gold cost if you are not the Defender: If Suboto is > face-up in one of your Provinces and will be opposed, bring him into play in > > the current battle. > > Yep, doesnt count as movement. Just like Gaki-do > > Bayushi Daremo > Scorpion Clan *Ninja* Samurai Troublemaker > Shadowed Tower > *Bloodspeaker* > I thought to agree but No.. It is not like Gaki-do. The reason why Gaki-do is legal in an Ambush is because it satisfies relavance, and presence, and does not violate Ambush's rule about moving a personality into the battle. The rule of relavance is very specific, that allows Gaki-do to work. "it moves or creates a card or token in the battle." For Suboto's battle action to work NORMALLY with relavance it is either movement or it is creating a Suboto in battle. If given the choice of one or the other, I would say that Suboto is MOVING into the battle and not being created in the battle. A card being brought into play is not being created.(Although, I am more than willing to open up that can of worms, if it is declared as such.) Sadly, since Suboto can not move into the battle due to the wording on AMBUSH(No other units may assign or move to this battle.) the action is not legal and can not be done. David Starr Whitecat31 GAB Vice-Admiral in the Golden Koku Team _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Whitecat31 at aol.com Sat Jan 1 15:27:14 2005 From: Whitecat31 at aol.com (Whitecat31 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 15:27:14 EST Subject: [L5R-CCG] bowing a bowed card Message-ID: In a message dated 1/1/2005 9:07:56 AM Pacific Standard Time, oberg_james at charter.net writes: > Ok since its been brought up with nizomi the question is. can an opponent > bow a bowed card. > > several examples comes to mind. > Tsuruchi Iyaken > Bow Iyaken: Target an unopposed Personality. Bow him. > Can i use this on an already bowed personality. > > The only reason I bring this up is because of the ruling on Nizomi wher you > bow 2 times instead of dying from the dragon sensei. Something like this was discussed a long time ago and the synopsis of it was this. "You can bow an opponent's bowed card if it is an effect or result of an action and as long as it is not a cost of doing something else." I hope that helps. David Starr whitecat31 GAB Vice-Admiral in the Golden Koku Team _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From beattyr2003 at earthlink.net Sat Jan 1 15:57:11 2005 From: beattyr2003 at earthlink.net (Robert Beatty) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 15:57:11 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Unicorn Rules Question #1 References: <12c.544f490e.2f085f92@aol.com> Message-ID: <002c01c4f044$77d3d430$198a79a5@DFDWZP21> ----- Original Message ----- From: >> >I have Shinjo Suboto face up in my provinces. My opponent plays Ambush >> >on >> >one of my Personalities. Can I bring Suboto into play, either in the >> >Ambush >> >battle or in my fief? >> > >> Unicorn Clan Bushi . Cavalry >> Battle: Pay Suboto's Gold cost if you are not the Defender: If Suboto is >> face-up in one of your Provinces and will be opposed, bring him into play >> in >> >> the current battle. >> >> Yep, doesnt count as movement. Just like Gaki-do >> >> Bayushi Daremo >> > I thought to agree but No.. It is not like Gaki-do. The reason why > Gaki-do > is legal in an Ambush is because it satisfies relavance, and presence, and > does not violate Ambush's rule about moving a personality into the battle. > > The rule of relavance is very specific, that allows Gaki-do to work. > "it moves or creates a card or token in the battle." > > For Suboto's battle action to work NORMALLY with relavance it is either > movement or it is creating a Suboto in battle. > > If given the choice of one or the other, I would say that Suboto is MOVING > into the battle and not being created in the battle. A card being brought > into > play is not being created.(Although, I am more than willing to open up > that > can of worms, if it is declared as such.) Your not given the choice to decide if bringing a card into play is creating them or moving them. It is creating them. I'm sure many will now want to hear that from Marty, but simple reasoning brings you to the conclusion that entering play = creating. It certainly cannot lead you to say bring into play = movement. Movement implies you start in one location and enter another. Since he is not in play, he has no starting location. He can't then be considered to be moving someplace. That means the only aswer has to be same as creating. Since he enters play in the battle, hes relevant and present or will be. The cards *ARENT* trying to trick you, they really arn't _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Whitecat31 at aol.com Sun Jan 2 02:16:30 2005 From: Whitecat31 at aol.com (Whitecat31 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 02:16:30 EST Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_=5BL5R-CCG=5D_Unicorn_Rules_Question_=231?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BJEFF/ZEN/MARTY=5D=A0?= Message-ID: <54.3ac52244.2f08f9ce@aol.com> In a message dated 1/1/2005 12:59:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, beattyr2003 at earthlink.net writes: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > >>>I have Shinjo Suboto face up in my provinces. My opponent plays Ambush > >>>on > >>>one of my Personalities. Can I bring Suboto into play, either in the > >>>Ambush > >>>battle or in my fief? > >>> > >>Unicorn Clan Bushi . Cavalry > >>Battle: Pay Suboto's Gold cost if you are not the Defender: If Suboto is > >>face-up in one of your Provinces and will be opposed, bring him into play > >>in > >> > >>the current battle. > >> > >>Yep,? doesnt count as movement.? Just like Gaki-do > >> > >>Bayushi Daremo > >> > >I thought to agree but No.. It is not like Gaki-do.?? The reason why > >Gaki-do > >is legal in an Ambush is because it satisfies relavance, and presence, and > >does not violate Ambush's rule about moving a personality into the battle. > > > >The rule of relavance is very specific, that allows Gaki-do to work. > >"it moves or creates a card or token in the battle." > > > >For Suboto's battle action to work NORMALLY with relavance it is either > >movement or it is creating a Suboto in battle. > > > >If given the choice of one or the other, I would say that Suboto is MOVING > >into the battle and not being created in the battle.? A card being brought > >into > >play is not being created.(Although, I am more than willing to open up > >that > >can of worms, if it is declared as such.) > > Your not given the choice to decide if bringing a card into play is creating > > them or moving them.? It is creating them. > > I'm sure many will now want to hear that from Marty, but simple reasoning > brings you to the conclusion that entering play = creating.? It certainly > cannot lead you to say bring into play = movement.? Movement implies you > start in one location and enter another.? Since he is not in play, he has no > > starting location.? He can't then be considered to be moving someplace. > That means the only aswer has to be same as creating. > > Since he enters play in the battle, hes relevant and present or will be. > > The cards *ARENT* trying to trick you, they really arn't > Well,? I would love to agree with you, but I can not.? For relavence, the action must CREATE or MOVE a personality into the battle.? We will have to wait for the definition of create, but I do not think BRINGING a card into play is creating a card.? Sadly, we will need to wait for JEFF on this one, who is on vacation. In general TOKENS are created.? We could argue that bringing a card into play is classified as movement or creation, but I rather let the game designer make that decision. There of course might be another ruling, the Subuto action is not legal because it does not satisfy the relavance of creating or movement, because bringing a card into play is something else entirely. Ie.. not movement or creation. I give us these below rulings to interpet as you see fit.? With no preference.? This will be for us to over analyze until a true ruling comes out of Jeffs mouth.? I think Marty might pass the buck on this one. Although, I am actually curious to hear ZEN's thoughts on this. Under cost: Altering the cost of a particular type of card only matters when you are bringing that card type into play from your hand or Provinces, not when you are using an action that creates a card of that type. [JA, 18 October 2000] E.g., costs of actions that generate followers (e.g., Farmlands) are not affected by things that pay for or reduce the cost (Hida Tsuru, non-Experienced) of followers. These costs can be reduced by effects that look for when particular effects occur; e.g., "when bringing a follower into play" or "when attaching." [Extension from Hida Tsuru, Experienced. Reversal, JA, email, 20 September 2000] WC: I think Jeff would consider ACTIONs as things that would create, and dynasty and fate cards as something that count as bringing into play. Under Arrival of the Emerald Champion. Arrival of the Emerald Champion May be used in a battle in which you have no units. [DW, 12/11/96] Once created, the Champion acts like any other Personality. [DW, 12/11/96] WC: (It is not a token that is a created but a card.)? thats why I pointed it out.? Although, it could have been a bad choice of words by DW.? But it does set a precedence of bringing a card into play and for DW to consider that creating. DW is Dave Williams the original lead desginer of L5R. Either way these rulings, are not 100% specific, and don't exactly help. David Starr Whitecat31 GAB Vice-Admiral in the Golden Koku Team _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From iosef at gothic.net.au Sun Jan 2 11:49:52 2005 From: iosef at gothic.net.au (I) Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 03:49:52 +1100 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Unicorn Rules Question #1 [JEFF/ZEN/MARTY] =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0?= In-Reply-To: <54.3ac52244.2f08f9ce@aol.com> References: <54.3ac52244.2f08f9ce@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20050103034725.01e4a220@localhost> At 06:16 PM 2/01/2005, Whitecat31 at aol.com wrote: >Well, I would love to agree with you, but I can not. For relavence, the >action must CREATE or MOVE a personality into the battle. > >We will have to wait for the definition of create, but I do not think >BRINGING a card into play is creating a card. Sadly, we will need to wait >for JEFF >on this one, who is on vacation. > >In general TOKENS are created. We could argue that bringing a card into play >is classified as movement or creation, but I rather let the game designer >make that decision. > >There of course might be another ruling, the Subuto action is not legal >because it does not satisfy the relavance of creating or movement, because >bringing >a card into play is something else entirely. Ie.. not movement or creation. > >I give us these below rulings to interpet as you see fit. With no >preference. This will be for us to over analyze until a true ruling comes >out of Jeffs >mouth. I think Marty might pass the buck on this one. Although, I am >actually >curious to hear ZEN's thoughts on this. > > >Under cost: > >Altering the cost of a particular type of card only matters when you are >bringing that card type into play from your hand or Provinces, not when >you are >using an action that creates a card of that type. [JA, 18 October 2000] E.g., >costs of actions that generate followers (e.g., Farmlands) are not >affected by >things that pay for or reduce the cost (Hida Tsuru, non-Experienced) of >followers. These costs can be reduced by effects that look for when >particular >effects occur; e.g., "when bringing a follower into play" or "when >attaching." >[Extension from Hida Tsuru, Experienced. Reversal, JA, email, 20 September >2000] > >WC: I think Jeff would consider ACTIONs as things that would create, and >dynasty and fate cards as something that count as bringing into play. > >Under Arrival of the Emerald Champion. > >Arrival of the Emerald Champion >May be used in a battle in which you have no units. [DW, 12/11/96] >Once created, the Champion acts like any other Personality. [DW, 12/11/96] > >WC: (It is not a token that is a created but a card.) thats why I pointed it >out. Although, it could have been a bad choice of words by DW. But it does >set a precedence of bringing a card into play and for DW to consider that >creating. DW is Dave Williams the original lead desginer of L5R. > >Either way these rulings, are not 100% specific, and don't exactly help. > >David Starr >Whitecat31 GAB Vice-Admiral in the Golden Koku Team From Rules 29 November: From: mparoni1 at c... Date: Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:15 am Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Shinjo Suboto > Shinjo Suboto: "Pay Suboto's Gold cost if you are not the Defender: If Suboto > is face-up in one of your Provinces and will be opposed, bring him into play > in the current battle." Does this technically count as "moving" him into the > battle? No. Bringing a card into play at a Battlefield is not the same as moving a card into a battlefield. This is why you can use Essence of Gaki-do in an Ambush. Note "bringing into play" in the ruling, not "creating". Unless Jeff reverses this ruling, the bring into play is legal. Iestyn (This was only 5 weeks ago folks.) _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jack-hawksmoor at austin.rr.com Sun Jan 2 20:24:57 2005 From: jack-hawksmoor at austin.rr.com (jack-hawksmoor at austin.rr.com) Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 19:24:57 -0600 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_=5BL5R-CCG=5D_Unicorn_Rules_Question_=231?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BJEFF/ZEN/MARTY=5D=A0?= Message-ID: <15b752415b49c4.15b49c415b7524@texas.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimmy Repine Date: Sunday, January 2, 2005 6:05 pm Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] Unicorn Rules Question #1[JEFF/ZEN/MARTY]? > The ruling was made so that you couldn't take an action in a > battle to kill > Gaheris. Because killing him doesn't move him out of the battle. > Ah, my mistake. Thanks for the clarification. I would still argue that, if going from out of play to in play during battle is considered movement, then the reverse should also be movement, and then destruction during battle could be canceled by cards that cancel movement out of a battle. I would hope that most people don't really want that to be the case, so with that in mind, Suboto's ability shouldn't be considered movement. ~Brian _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From lyversj at bellsouth.net Sun Jan 2 18:52:14 2005 From: lyversj at bellsouth.net (James Lyvers) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 18:52:14 -0500 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?RE=3A_=5BL5R-CCG=5D_Unicorn_Rules_Question_=231?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BJEFF/ZEN/MARTY=5D=A0?= In-Reply-To: <15a80d315aa80e.15aa80e15a80d3@texas.rr.com> Message-ID: >From the rulebook under the rules of presence on pg 80. "Gain a unit in the battle as an unconditional result of the action." That should cover Movement, Creation, or bringing into play, which I believe to be 3 very different and seperate effects. So Ambush says you cannot move a unit. You aren't moving you are bringing a unit into play in the current Battle. So Presence satisfied. The stickler is Relevance bullet 1 on pg 81 is irrelevant to the disscussion. bullet 2 - It moves or creates a card or token in the battle. My personal opinion is that while strictly speaking bringing a card into play does not qualify as either of these, I believe that is only due to oversite. At the time said rule was printed the only effects that allowed you to gain units in battle were movement or creation effects. Still strictly speaking this does not qualify as relevant. bullet 3 - It targets or directly affects a card or token in the battle, the province [battlefield?] under attack, or the battle itself. So does the action target battle. I would say no. It doesn't say target, and you can't choose which battle he goes to, except as a function of when you play the action, which has never qualified as targeted under the rules for targeting. The only think left to envoke is the rule of obvious legality. See here is the dilemma, because the action and the rules taken together, would never allow you to play the action, because it would never, EVER! qualify as relevant to a battle under the current rules of relevancy, the action either does nothing, or must fall into the rule of obvious legality. Note this is no longer a discussion about ambush specifically, but rather about Suboto's action in general. Personally, I think it should fall into relevancy under bullet 2, and that the only reason it does not is oversite on the part of whoever wrote/edited the Diamond Rulebook. In choosing to use "Gain" under the rule of presence, but not in the rule of relevance. They have forced a situation to fall into rule of obvious legality, which I know many of us here hate with the sort of fear and loathing that is afforded to child molesters, and other criminals of the most nefarious sort. But in the interim, I guess the answer is yes Suboto can, via his printed action go to an ambush. Akodo James -----Original Message----- From: L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com [mailto:L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com]On Behalf Of jack-hawksmoor at austin.rr.com Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 3:55 PM To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] Unicorn Rules Question #1[JEFF/ZEN/MARTY] I know infering can be a dangerous thing, but this might be applicable: "A card leaving play (e.g., because it is destroyed) does not count as "leaving the battle." [JA, 3 July 2000]" That sounds to me like it is referring to movement effects, i.e. going from in play to out of play isn't considered movement. If I remember correctly, this ruling was made so that movement cancelling effects could not cancel the destruction of a card. If this sets a precedent and it applies to going the other direction, then going from out of play (in a province) to in play (at a battle) wouldn't count as movement, either. I'm inclined to think that the simplest ruling would be that Suboto's ability is a creation effect, and thus satisfies Relevance. Any other ruling would require errata or inconsistency in the rules, I think. ~Brian _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From c.slide at gmail.com Sun Jan 2 19:13:20 2005 From: c.slide at gmail.com (chiasticslide) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 19:13:20 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Yobanjin Fortress Message-ID: Question: If I declare an attack with no attackers and no defenders, and I create a Yobanjin with a Yobanjin Fortress at the current (empty) battle, and then me and my opponent both consecutively pass, does the personality survive into resolution? I'm not clear whether or not passing counts as actions resolving. ** Yobanjin Fortress 2G Holding Bow this card: Produce 2 Gold. Battle: Bow this card: Create a 1F/1C Yobanjin personality card in your army in the current battle. Remove this personality from the game after the battle ends or after two more actions resolve. -- //Otaku Taizung _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jrepine1 at msn.com Sun Jan 2 19:05:28 2005 From: jrepine1 at msn.com (Jimmy Repine) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 19:05:28 -0500 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_=5BL5R-CCG=5D_Unicorn_Rules_Question_=231?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BJEFF/ZEN/MARTY=5D=A0?= References: <15a80d315aa80e.15aa80e15a80d3@texas.rr.com> Message-ID: The ruling was made so that you couldn't take an action in a battle to kill Gaheris. Because killing him doesn't move him out of the battle. Jimmy Repine Hitomi Yamesh Dragon Clan Tattooed Jedi Master ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] Unicorn Rules Question #1[JEFF/ZEN/MARTY] >I know infering can be a dangerous thing, but this might be applicable: > > "A card leaving play (e.g., because it is destroyed) does not count as > "leaving the battle." [JA, 3 July 2000]" > > That sounds to me like it is referring to movement effects, i.e. going > from in play to out of play isn't considered movement. If I remember > correctly, this ruling was made so that movement cancelling effects could > not cancel the destruction of a card. If this sets a precedent and it > applies to going the other direction, then going from out of play (in a > province) to in play (at a battle) wouldn't count as movement, either. > > I'm inclined to think that the simplest ruling would be that Suboto's > ability is a creation effect, and thus satisfies Relevance. Any other > ruling would require errata or inconsistency in the rules, I think. > > ~Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jack-hawksmoor at austin.rr.com Sun Jan 2 15:55:01 2005 From: jack-hawksmoor at austin.rr.com (jack-hawksmoor at austin.rr.com) Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 14:55:01 -0600 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_=5BL5R-CCG=5D_Unicorn_Rules_Question_=231?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BJEFF/ZEN/MARTY=5D=A0?= Message-ID: <15a80d315aa80e.15aa80e15a80d3@texas.rr.com> I know infering can be a dangerous thing, but this might be applicable: "A card leaving play (e.g., because it is destroyed) does not count as "leaving the battle." [JA, 3 July 2000]" That sounds to me like it is referring to movement effects, i.e. going from in play to out of play isn't considered movement. If I remember correctly, this ruling was made so that movement cancelling effects could not cancel the destruction of a card. If this sets a precedent and it applies to going the other direction, then going from out of play (in a province) to in play (at a battle) wouldn't count as movement, either. I'm inclined to think that the simplest ruling would be that Suboto's ability is a creation effect, and thus satisfies Relevance. Any other ruling would require errata or inconsistency in the rules, I think. ~Brian _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From kaioto at yahoo.com Sun Jan 2 23:03:24 2005 From: kaioto at yahoo.com (Martin Lund) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 20:03:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Rules for 25 and 26 December 2004 [RULES] Message-ID: <20050103040324.55785.qmail@web54104.mail.yahoo.com> Your Rules for Saturday, December 25 and Sunday, December 26, 2004 * * * * * * * * * * From: "Slothboy" Date: Sat Dec 25, 2004 12:06 am Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Suitengu's Surge, Tengoku Acolytes and In Time of War > Does the honor gain happen before In Time of War checks my starting family honor > for that turn, like Boastful Proclamation? > > Surge says 'before' while Boastful says 'at the start' - does that mean I'm > gaining honor in the previous player's turn, and In Time of War would cap my > gain at 5 even if I had 3 Acolytes in play? > > Or does the Dragon return to play in some moment between turns - after the > previous player's turn has finished but before mine starts? Does that make it > impossible to satisfy the once per turn restriction? That's a right mess there. By past precident in the Rulebook "After the end of the turn," comes before, "Before the beginning of the next turn." That does, at first glance, create a gap of time in between the two turns. I can find any immediate leads to work with, though Jeff may have fielded something similar to this a while ago. Let me forward this over to him to check it out real quick. * * * * * * * * * * From: DorilBard at a... Date: Sun Dec 26, 2004 1:23 am Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Chieh-Kuro's Fire-Otaku followup > What is the combined Force + Chi of a personality in the Dead Pile, for the > purposes of Kuro's Fire? Personalities in the Discard Pile still have Force and Chi values. For the purposes of resolving a cast Spell, I need to double-check with Jeff. I have precident on what to do with cards when Actions destroy them as a cost (To Do What We Must), but I'm not sure that "Last Known Value" principle extends to being killed by a Reaction or some other sort of trigger. That said, I spoke incorrectly about killing Chieh. Consecutive Ranged Attacks - do - run afoul of one thing if you destroy the caster of Kuro's Fire - targeting. Each one is targeted in sequence, so if the Personality is in the Discard Pile when you need to target an opposing card for the next Ranged Attack, you won't be able to find a legal target. However, other kinds of unresolved effects that don't require sequential targeting of "opposing" cards - would - resolve even with the caster in the Discard Pile. As for the Statistics, thing, I'll get back to you as soon as Jeff gets back to me. * * * * * * * * * * From: Robert Van Natter Date: Sun Dec 26, 2004 11:11 am Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Gozoku/Political Adjunct > Basicly someone posted a deck with that trick in it. I > asked if it actually worked. Ben Palmer posted and > said he was pretty sure it did. The Marty posted and > said it did indeed work, so long as the Adjunct was in > the current Battle." > > So. I am guessing that you already know my question > after this long wind-up... > > Is the Gozoku/PA combo legal to lock-down someone not > at the current battle if the PA is in the current > battle; or is the previously stated ruling here all > encompassing, and it is an illegal play regardless of > what battle the PA is at. It might have happened. I've made mistakes before, especially outside the official rulings. That said, the ruling on the books, established by the Rules Junta, is in the Archive: "Using a separate action on a card in battle (e.g., Political Adjunct) to help pay part of the cost of a card out of battle (e.g., Gozoku Sensei) does not satisfy the requirement for relevance. [ML, 29 September 2004]" (Accumulated Rulings, "Battle: Action Segment" * * * * * * * * * * That should cover everything for Saturday and Sunday. If I missed your question, please repost it with the flag [RULES] as part of your Clear and Distinct subject line. I'll get back to you at the first opportunity. Thank you, - Marty Lund Deputy Rules Monkey __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From diablo_5 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 2 23:25:53 2005 From: diablo_5 at hotmail.com (Andrew Laderoute) Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 23:25:53 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Negating Destruction Question Message-ID: If I manage to use Few Against Many or Iron Pillar (both do the same thing) to negate the destruction of the Personality when he is destroyed by one of the following, what happens to the attached cards? A) Challenged to a lethal duel and lose (say, Steel on Steel) B) Overwhelmed C) Direct Assault If I'm right, A and B means the attached cards are kept, but C, since it destroys entire unit, keeps the Personality but not attached cards. Right? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hida Ryushi 6F/6C 0HR/12G/2PH Crab Clan Hero*Iron Legion Samurai*Tactician*Yu 5*Experienced*Unique Tactical Battle: Ryushi gains a Force bonus equal to his Yu value. Reaction: After any Attack Phase, you may take one Action card that checked Ryushi's Yu value from your Discard pile into your hand. "After a thousand battles, one only sees death." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From diablo_5 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 2 23:27:14 2005 From: diablo_5 at hotmail.com (Andrew Laderoute) Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 23:27:14 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Direct Assault Question Message-ID: Is it legal to use Hiruma Todori NON-EXP or Tsudao's Chambers to straighten one Follower on a unit that entirely bows for the Direct Assault action? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hida Ryushi 6F/6C 0HR/12G/2PH Crab Clan Hero*Iron Legion Samurai*Tactician*Yu 5*Experienced*Unique Tactical Battle: Ryushi gains a Force bonus equal to his Yu value. Reaction: After any Attack Phase, you may take one Action card that checked Ryushi's Yu value from your Discard pile into your hand. "After a thousand battles, one only sees death." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Kirbdog53 at aol.com Mon Jan 3 08:51:25 2005 From: Kirbdog53 at aol.com (Kirbdog53 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 08:51:25 EST Subject: [L5R-CCG] Rules Question Message-ID: <111.40ba6c9d.2f0aa7dd@aol.com> If you are a Unicorn player, and you use Suboto's ability to bring him into play using his ability, may you reduce his cost by 2? Moto Gahrie _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From ebatalis at mail.gr Mon Jan 3 17:51:33 2005 From: ebatalis at mail.gr (ebatalis at mail.gr) Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 17:51:33 EEST Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: bowing and bowed cards Message-ID: <110476389301@mailserver.mail.gr> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available Url: http://h4x0r5.com/pipermail/l5rinfo/attachments/20050103/0e12f166/attachment.diff From henry.hemming at phreaker.net Mon Jan 3 12:15:30 2005 From: henry.hemming at phreaker.net (Henry Hemming) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 19:15:30 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Rules Question References: <111.40ba6c9d.2f0aa7dd@aol.com> Message-ID: <00f001c4f1b7$d4b92870$1bd68e3e@tanitsu> Honor gain, and the lowest cost for in clan personalities only apply during dynasty phase, if I remember correctly.. -typo ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, 03 January, 2005 15:51 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Rules Question > If you are a Unicorn player, and you use Suboto's ability to bring him > into > play using his ability, may you reduce his cost by 2? > > > > Moto Gahrie > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From henry.hemming at phreaker.net Mon Jan 3 12:23:04 2005 From: henry.hemming at phreaker.net (Henry Hemming) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 19:23:04 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: bowing and bowed cards References: <110476389301@mailserver.mail.gr> Message-ID: <00f501c4f1b8$e364d850$1bd68e3e@tanitsu> You can take take an action where some or all of the effects are already applied. This means you can try to use actions that bow personalityies even if they are already bowed, if there are other effects they still occure. Example, you can use gozoku on a bowed personality, etc. But you cannot satisfy the cost of an action that bows, if the personality cannot bow, because that would mean failing to pay the cost. Example, you cannot lobby with a bowed personality as he fails to pay the cost of bowing the personality. -typo ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, 03 January, 2005 19:51 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: bowing and bowed cards > Happy New Year to everyone and mostly to those that need it. > > > Well it came up a rather perculiar subject concerning bowed cards and > actions on Pirate ash#$@ personalities. On the half of the Pus#@$@# eeerr > Pirates the point is that bowed cards can be targeted by actions that > have an effect that bows and sends home an effect that bows and cannot > straighten and generally that it is legal to target cards with actions > that bow them no matter if they are bowed or not. > I am reffering to Tsuruchi Tokaro,Iyaken and all of his merry band of men > in tights. > I would like a fully explanotary answer please because I have to explain > to some players. > > Also if this comes legal is GOZOKU legal in targeting a bowed card and if > it is why there is a clarification in both Rubies of Iuchiban concerning > which ruby can bow who and in what condition. > Also if this is legal many questions come up and which are. Is Temple of > the NK legal in targeting a dishonored personality and if it is what > happens,is unrequited love legal targeting a bowed/dishonered pers and > what happens if it is? > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > http://www.mail.gr/ - Get Your Private Free Email Address! > http://www.ringtone.gr/ - Ringtones & Logos for your mobile! > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From lordg at ono.com Mon Jan 3 12:59:53 2005 From: lordg at ono.com (lordg at ono.com) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 18:59:53 +0100 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Tangen sensei/ tsuruchi tech Message-ID: <41AD919E00013145@resmta01.ono.com> Hi, I am a scorpion player with tangen sensei. My opponent plays tsuruchi technique (the battle action) on one of my cards (foll-pers). Can I redirect that action to cards controlled by him (foll-pers) in this battle? Why? Thanks. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From esteiger at alderac.com Mon Jan 3 13:51:44 2005 From: esteiger at alderac.com (Eric Steiger) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 10:51:44 -0800 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Attn: Emmanuel Chuilon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Will Emmanuel Chuilon please contact me, either through e-mail or by phone (909-390-5444 x. 145)? Or, if anybody has his e-mail address, please send it to me (esteiger at alderac.com). Thank you. -- Sincerely, Eric Steiger AEG Customer Service -------------------------------------------------------- 4045 E. Guasti Rd. #212 Ontario, CA 91761 Email: esteiger at alderac.com AIM: AEGEricS Phone: (909) 390-5444 ext. 145 Fax: (909) 390-5446 _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Armin-Schmid at gmx.de Mon Jan 3 15:51:28 2005 From: Armin-Schmid at gmx.de (Armin Schmid) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 21:51:28 +0100 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Tangen sensei/ tsuruchi tech References: <41AD919E00013145@resmta01.ono.com> Message-ID: <001d01c4f1d6$04f1fe40$6402a8c0@armin> hi, you can't! Rulebook (page 90) "A ranged attack must target a single card opposing the card..." His cards a not legal targets. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 6:59 PM Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Tangen sensei/ tsuruchi tech Hi, I am a scorpion player with tangen sensei. My opponent plays tsuruchi technique (the battle action) on one of my cards (foll-pers). Can I redirect that action to cards controlled by him (foll-pers) in this battle? Why? Thanks. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jalexander at alderac.com Mon Jan 3 16:35:17 2005 From: jalexander at alderac.com (Jeff Alexander) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 13:35:17 -0800 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 Message-ID: As part of the never-ending process of improving the L5R CCG tournaments as competitive events, AEG is announcing the creation of a formal Watch List of cards we feel may be unduly influencing the play environment. This list will be updated monthly, with all cards on it eventually either being removed from the Watch List or receiving balancing errata once we have had time to ascertain the card's true status. Such errata will also be announced monthly, and will typically have a one month lead time before any goes into effect. Currently, the Design Team is keeping close watch on two Web of Lies Personalities: Utaku Tarako Yoritomo Tokaro Tokaro is on the List because his ability can repeatedly seize permanent control of another player's cards in play, even despite an apparently-intended way of rendering his ability unusable. Tarako is on the List because her Battle action is powerful, reusable, and is legal in a very wide variety of situations that put her controller at little risk and are difficult for an opponent to avoid. -- Jeff Alexander Lead Designer, L5R CCG Alderac Entertainment Group _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From shaw.ken at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 3 17:01:42 2005 From: shaw.ken at worldnet.att.net (Ken Shaw) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 16:01:42 -0600 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 References: Message-ID: <000d01c4f1df$cfa6c270$b680fea9@your4di1s53ime> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Alexander" To: Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 3:35 PM Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 > As part of the never-ending process of improving the L5R CCG > tournaments as competitive events, AEG is announcing the creation of > a formal Watch List of cards we feel may be unduly influencing the > play environment. This list will be updated monthly, with all cards > on it eventually either being removed from the Watch List or > receiving balancing errata once we have had time to ascertain the > card's true status. Such errata will also be announced monthly, and > will typically have a one month lead time before any goes into effect. > > Currently, the Design Team is keeping close watch on two Web of Lies > Personalities: > > Utaku Tarako > Yoritomo Tokaro > > > Tokaro is on the List because his ability can repeatedly seize > permanent control of another player's cards in play, even despite an > apparently-intended way of rendering his ability unusable. > > Tarako is on the List because her Battle action is powerful, > reusable, and is legal in a very wide variety of situations that put > her controller at little risk and are difficult for an opponent to > avoid. > Huh, I thought these cards "were working as designed". Since there can't have been many WoL legal tournaments where did this data come from? Ken _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From muellmann88 at yahoo.de Mon Jan 3 17:05:53 2005 From: muellmann88 at yahoo.de (Pascal Richard) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 23:05:53 +0100 (CET) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 In-Reply-To: <000d01c4f1df$cfa6c270$b680fea9@your4di1s53ime> Message-ID: <20050103220553.12655.qmail@web86910.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> EH? Where is SAORI on th list? Ken Shaw wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Alexander" To: Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 3:35 PM Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 > As part of the never-ending process of improving the L5R CCG > tournaments as competitive events, AEG is announcing the creation of > a formal Watch List of cards we feel may be unduly influencing the > play environment. This list will be updated monthly, with all cards > on it eventually either being removed from the Watch List or > receiving balancing errata once we have had time to ascertain the > card's true status. Such errata will also be announced monthly, and > will typically have a one month lead time before any goes into effect. > > Currently, the Design Team is keeping close watch on two Web of Lies > Personalities: > > Utaku Tarako > Yoritomo Tokaro > > > Tokaro is on the List because his ability can repeatedly seize > permanent control of another player's cards in play, even despite an > apparently-intended way of rendering his ability unusable. > > Tarako is on the List because her Battle action is powerful, > reusable, and is legal in a very wide variety of situations that put > her controller at little risk and are difficult for an opponent to > avoid. > Huh, I thought these cards "were working as designed". Since there can't have been many WoL legal tournaments where did this data come from? Ken _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com --------------------------------- Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - Jetzt mit 250MB kostenlosem Speicher _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jalexander at alderac.com Mon Jan 3 18:54:29 2005 From: jalexander at alderac.com (Jeff Alexander) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:54:29 -0800 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 In-Reply-To: <20050103220553.12655.qmail@web86910.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <20050103220553.12655.qmail@web86910.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >EH? Where is SAORI on th list? Saori has inefficient stats for her cost, doesn't destroy or steal, provides a built-in way of ending one of the effects she does produce, and only works in combination with a Unique or multiple other cards. She's strong, sure, but not so strong that we feel she has to change to keep the game what we want it to be. -- Jeff Alexander Lead Designer, L5R CCG Alderac Entertainment Group _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jalexander at alderac.com Mon Jan 3 18:46:48 2005 From: jalexander at alderac.com (Jeff Alexander) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:46:48 -0800 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 In-Reply-To: <000d01c4f1df$cfa6c270$b680fea9@your4di1s53ime> References: <000d01c4f1df$cfa6c270$b680fea9@your4di1s53ime> Message-ID: > >Huh, I thought these cards "were working as designed". A card can work as designed and still be too strong. > >Since there can't > >have been many WoL legal tournaments where did this data come from? Predicting the post-Web environment in advance for playtest of the next set. -- Jeff Alexander Lead Designer, L5R CCG Alderac Entertainment Group _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From bh350 at aegbountyhunter.com Mon Jan 3 20:52:32 2005 From: bh350 at aegbountyhunter.com (Rusty Priske) Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 20:52:32 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 Message-ID: > >EH? Where is SAORI on th list? > > Saori has inefficient stats for her cost, doesn't destroy or steal, > provides a built-in way of ending one of the effects she does > produce, and only works in combination with a Unique or multiple > other cards. She's strong, sure, but not so strong that we feel she > has to change to keep the game what we want it to be. Only works in combination with Unique or multiple other cards? We have been told that she can use her ability on herself. Is this not true? Rusty Priske _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jimandandrealetters at hotmail.com Tue Jan 4 00:24:49 2005 From: jimandandrealetters at hotmail.com (James and Andrea Collier) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 05:24:49 +0000 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > >EH? Where is SAORI on th list? > > > > Saori has inefficient stats for her cost, doesn't destroy or steal, > > provides a built-in way of ending one of the effects she does > > produce, and only works in combination with a Unique or >multiple > > other cards. She's strong, sure, but not so strong that we feel >she > > has to change to keep the game what we want it to be. > >Only works in combination with Unique or multiple other cards? >We have been told that she can use her ability on herself. Is this >not true? It's true, Rusty. I think that what Jeff means is that if you want to WIN . . . Saori is 3 Chi. There's way to many 4 chi personalities out there that would leave you spending 4 gold to straighten Saori. Wannabe no Shiryo _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Luftmorder at aol.com Tue Jan 4 00:30:29 2005 From: Luftmorder at aol.com (Luftmorder at aol.com) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 00:30:29 EST Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 Message-ID: <7f.54b5ebff.2f0b83f5@aol.com> In a message dated 1/3/2005 9:28:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, jimandandrealetters at hotmail.com writes: It's true, Rusty. I think that what Jeff means is that if you want to WIN . . . Saori is 3 Chi. There's way to many 4 chi personalities out there that would leave you spending 4 gold to straighten Saori. Plus Shi-Tien Yen-Wang Temple is common in many builds as well, so even gainst Mantis, Crab, and some Unicorn builds (the new ones mostly), her issueing the duel herself is generally not that great an idea. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Kirbdog53 at aol.com Tue Jan 4 00:47:05 2005 From: Kirbdog53 at aol.com (Kirbdog53 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 00:47:05 EST Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 Message-ID: <1d2.2e1d74b4.2f0b87d9@aol.com> In a message dated 1/3/2005 9:28:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, jimandandrealetters at hotmail.com writes: think that what Jeff means is that if you want to WIN . . . Saori is 3 Chi. There's way to many 4 chi personalities out there that would leave you spending 4 gold to straighten Saori. You've never seen a Saori with an Ancient Sword attached? I see that all the time. Throw in a Kuroiban Advisor or a Political Adjunct and now you're able to beat 90% of the Personalities out there. So we have a combo that requires only one common, or at most two? And once it's going it is as unbeatable at the HoT fire combo. Moto Gahrie _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From henry.hemming at phreaker.net Tue Jan 4 03:09:17 2005 From: henry.hemming at phreaker.net (Henry Hemming) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:09:17 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 References: <1d2.2e1d74b4.2f0b87d9@aol.com> Message-ID: <001801c4f234$b3d97290$1bd68e3e@tanitsu> The environment changes, before you could survive with no consideration given to duel decks, not anymore. Here are some excelent defences against duel decks. - kharmaic strike. - shosure technique. - excellent student. - keen eye. - tsuma dojo. -typo ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, 04 January, 2005 7:47 Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 > > In a message dated 1/3/2005 9:28:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > jimandandrealetters at hotmail.com writes: > > think that what Jeff means is that if you want to WIN . . . > > Saori is 3 Chi. There's way to many 4 chi personalities out there that > would > leave you spending 4 gold to straighten Saori. > > > > You've never seen a Saori with an Ancient Sword attached? I see that all > the > time. Throw in a Kuroiban Advisor or a Political Adjunct and now you're > able > to beat 90% of the Personalities out there. > > So we have a combo that requires only one common, or at most two? And once > it's going it is as unbeatable at the HoT fire combo. > > Moto Gahrie > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From otaku_rotsuken at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jan 4 08:20:42 2005 From: otaku_rotsuken at yahoo.co.uk (Piotr Kapis) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 14:20:42 +0100 Subject: [L5R-CCG] taut bowstrings wih some RA ruling needed Message-ID: Hello everybody, I need a ruling concerning Action Card "Taut Bowstrings" and some personalities. Taut Bowstrings (WoC) "Reaction: Play before one of your target Followers or Items bows to produce a ranged attack or as part of a combined ranged attack. That card need not bow. Reaction: Play after a unit moves into a Province or before a unit leaves a Province to make a ranged attack targeting it from your opposing cards in that Province. Your cards need not bow to produce this attack." Now, usually RAs are Battle actions, but sometimes they are Reactions. Moto Latomu has such ability, Moto Latomu exp gives it to others, and Shosuro Tsuyoshi has one compared against Chi. My question is, can I use second ability of TB with such RAs? I would say yes, basing on RAs description on page 90 in rulebook, but I'm not sure. -- Otaku Rotsuken I will follow you now and always my Lady no words required _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From mklein at printtime.com Tue Jan 4 09:20:35 2005 From: mklein at printtime.com (Mark Klein) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 08:20:35 -0600 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> > >EH? Where is SAORI on th list? >>> >>> Saori has inefficient stats for her cost, doesn't destroy or steal, >>> provides a built-in way of ending one of the effects she does >>> produce, and only works in combination with a Unique or >>multiple >>> other cards. She's strong, sure, but not so strong that we feel >>she >>> has to change to keep the game what we want it to be. >> >>Only works in combination with Unique or multiple other cards? >>We have been told that she can use her ability on herself. Is this >>not true? > >It's true, Rusty. > >I think that what Jeff means is that if you want to WIN . . . > >Saori is 3 Chi. There's way to many 4 chi personalities out there >that would leave you spending 4 gold to straighten Saori. > >Wannabe no Shiryo > Getting Saori to a point where she can do it her self is QUITE easy. and Straightening her so she can do it over and over is QUITE easy too..... 8 (or 9?) of top 16 being Crane at Topaz screams that this card needs a look at. Every crane deck I played had her as it's engine........ -- Mark Klein Graphic Designer Print Time E.P.P. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From lyversj at bellsouth.net Tue Jan 4 09:15:34 2005 From: lyversj at bellsouth.net (James Lyvers) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:15:34 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] taut bowstrings wih some RA ruling needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I would say no you can not. Based on the fact that those Ranged attacks, specifically Latomu, are not legal to play at that time. This is different from the duel from WoE (can't remember the name), as that card just requires you to have a ranged attack, and has no condition on its use. Akodo James -----Original Message----- From: L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com [mailto:L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com]On Behalf Of Piotr Kapis Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 8:21 AM To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com Subject: [L5R-CCG] taut bowstrings wih some RA ruling needed Hello everybody, I need a ruling concerning Action Card "Taut Bowstrings" and some personalities. Taut Bowstrings (WoC) "Reaction: Play before one of your target Followers or Items bows to produce a ranged attack or as part of a combined ranged attack. That card need not bow. Reaction: Play after a unit moves into a Province or before a unit leaves a Province to make a ranged attack targeting it from your opposing cards in that Province. Your cards need not bow to produce this attack." Now, usually RAs are Battle actions, but sometimes they are Reactions. Moto Latomu has such ability, Moto Latomu exp gives it to others, and Shosuro Tsuyoshi has one compared against Chi. My question is, can I use second ability of TB with such RAs? I would say yes, basing on RAs description on page 90 in rulebook, but I'm not sure. -- Otaku Rotsuken I will follow you now and always my Lady no words required _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Kirbdog53 at aol.com Tue Jan 4 09:38:09 2005 From: Kirbdog53 at aol.com (Kirbdog53 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:38:09 EST Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 Message-ID: In a message dated 1/4/2005 6:23:42 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, mklein at printtime.com writes: <<>> It gets worse. HoT/Fire dueling was bad enough, but now they are using Saori also. Moto Gahrie _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From henry.hemming at phreaker.net Tue Jan 4 10:53:00 2005 From: henry.hemming at phreaker.net (Henry Hemming) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 17:53:00 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 References: Message-ID: <003901c4f275$78b74a70$1bd68e3e@tanitsu> Who am I to say anything after such evidence, but a crane deck doesnt have to rely on saoris. Why bother, you can have 9 unrefusable action phase duels in the fate deck that dont require any combos, and 3 blade of penances. And enough card draw to pick up the entire fate deck in a single turn in most games. And underhand provides with 1 duel and a new guardian to get started. Easy jump from 6 to 40 honor in every game, as soon as you have almost any 1-2 personalities in play. -typo ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, 04 January, 2005 16:38 Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 > > In a message dated 1/4/2005 6:23:42 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > mklein at printtime.com writes: > > << and Straightening her so she can do it over and over is QUITE easy > too..... > > 8 (or 9?) of top 16 being Crane at Topaz screams that this card needs > a look at. > Every crane deck I played had her as it's engine........>>> > > > It gets worse. HoT/Fire dueling was bad enough, but now they are using > Saori > also. > > Moto Gahrie > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From mklein at printtime.com Tue Jan 4 11:04:27 2005 From: mklein at printtime.com (Mark Klein) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:04:27 -0600 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 In-Reply-To: <003901c4f275$78b74a70$1bd68e3e@tanitsu> References: <003901c4f275$78b74a70$1bd68e3e@tanitsu> Message-ID: >Who am I to say anything after such evidence, but a crane deck >doesnt have to rely on saoris. Why bother, you can have 9 >unrefusable action phase duels in the fate deck that dont require >any combos, and 3 blade of penances. And enough card draw to pick up >the entire fate deck in a single turn in most games. And underhand >provides with 1 duel and a new guardian to get started. Easy jump >from 6 to 40 honor in every game, as soon as you have almost any 1-2 >personalities in play. > Its funny that you talk about duels that don't need combo's and then go into explaining how you need combo's for the card draw and honor gain........ And the fact that this all can be done + adding the nastyness that is Saori is quite powerfull....... -- Mark Klein Graphic Designer Print Time E.P.P. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From hametsuj at yahoo.com Tue Jan 4 11:48:56 2005 From: hametsuj at yahoo.com (Grant Jeffers) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 08:48:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Tangen sensei/ tsuruchi tech In-Reply-To: <001d01c4f1d6$04f1fe40$6402a8c0@armin> Message-ID: <20050104164856.70340.qmail@web60810.mail.yahoo.com> Why can't you? Tsuruchi Tech isn't opposing anything. -Grant Armin Schmid wrote: hi, you can't! Rulebook (page 90) "A ranged attack must target a single card opposing the card..." His cards a not legal targets. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 6:59 PM Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Tangen sensei/ tsuruchi tech Hi, I am a scorpion player with tangen sensei. My opponent plays tsuruchi technique (the battle action) on one of my cards (foll-pers). Can I redirect that action to cards controlled by him (foll-pers) in this battle? Why? Thanks. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! ? What will yours do? _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From cloak72 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 4 12:04:40 2005 From: cloak72 at yahoo.com (Robert Van Natter) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:04:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Tangen sensei/ tsuruchi tech In-Reply-To: <20050104164856.70340.qmail@web60810.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050104170440.89605.qmail@web41805.mail.yahoo.com> Redirection must still end up being a legal target. Since you can not target your own cards with TsuTech, you can not redirect it back on your opponent. --- Grant Jeffers wrote: > Why can't you? Tsuruchi Tech isn't opposing > anything. > > -Grant > > Armin Schmid wrote: > hi, > > you can't! > > Rulebook (page 90) > "A ranged attack must target a single card opposing > the card..." > > His cards a not legal targets. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 6:59 PM > Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Tangen sensei/ tsuruchi > tech > > > Hi, > I am a scorpion player with tangen sensei. My > opponent plays tsuruchi > technique > (the battle action) on one of my cards (foll-pers). > Can I redirect that > action to cards controlled by him (foll-pers) in > this battle? Why? > Thanks. > > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > The all-new My Yahoo! ? What will yours do? > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > ===== Hiruma Ayslyn Crab Clan Professional Medler Scout Samurai Hero "We are all just Samurai brother, but when we stand together, we are the Crab" "Pain shared is pain divided; joy shared is joy multiplied" Everything I needed to know, I learned from drinking at Callahan's __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From mercier.olivier at numericable.fr Tue Jan 4 12:04:32 2005 From: mercier.olivier at numericable.fr (Mercier Olivier) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 18:04:32 +0100 Subject: [L5R-CCG] L5r the game Message-ID: I have get a nice programme who is named L5R the game But I would like to contact the programmer, there is someone who know him and how to contact him because I have some questions for him !!!! _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From kitfalbo at hotmail.com Tue Jan 4 12:44:33 2005 From: kitfalbo at hotmail.com (Kit Falbo) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 17:44:33 +0000 Subject: [L5R-CCG] RULES questions Message-ID: 1. Can chi penalty tokens kill moto ogedei because the chi penalty is comming from a token and not a card? 2. Weigh the cost: Can I send home an unopposed attacking unit and lower my opponents province strength (the and seems to imply I need to have an opposing unit to target)? 3. shinjo suboto: Can you bring suboto in while defending without paying his gold cost or can you only use his ability while attacking? _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From UCIMUNee at aol.com Tue Jan 4 13:27:06 2005 From: UCIMUNee at aol.com (UCIMUNee at aol.com) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 13:27:06 EST Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Saori Message-ID: In a message dated 1/3/2005 9:51:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, L5r-ccg-request at alderac.com writes: You've never seen a Saori with an Ancient Sword attached? I see that all the time. Throw in a Kuroiban Advisor or a Political Adjunct and now you're able to beat 90% of the Personalities out there. So we have a combo that requires only one common, or at most two? And once it's going it is as unbeatable at the HoT fire combo. Moto Gahrie Dragon using Saori is a funny compliment. As for the above, 1 or 2 Uncommons and a Promo Card, from your list. All three cards are +1C. Nizomi's a much better option for chi pumping. Are the Dragon running him too? _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From bh350 at aegbountyhunter.com Tue Jan 4 13:56:16 2005 From: bh350 at aegbountyhunter.com (Rusty Priske) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 13:56:16 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Saori Message-ID: > > > Dragon using Saori is a funny compliment. As for the above, 1 or 2 > Uncommons and a Promo Card, from your list. All three cards are +1C. Nizomi's a > much better option for chi pumping. Are the Dragon running him too? Not even close. Saori is brutally strong in HoT Fire with Uso. Reusable lethal duels? Much better than a chi boost that stops the lethal effect from your own sensei. Rusty Priske _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jalexander at alderac.com Tue Jan 4 14:20:44 2005 From: jalexander at alderac.com (Jeff Alexander) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 11:20:44 -0800 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > >EH? Where is SAORI on th list? >> >> Saori has inefficient stats for her cost, doesn't destroy or steal, >> provides a built-in way of ending one of the effects she does >> produce, and only works in combination with a Unique or >multiple >> other cards. She's strong, sure, but not so strong that we feel >she >> has to change to keep the game what we want it to be. > >Only works in combination with Unique or multiple other cards? >We have been told that she can use her ability on herself. Is this >not true? Issuing a challenge from a 3C Personality is certainly LEGAL. Whether it's worth doing is another matter entirely. -- Jeff Alexander Lead Designer, L5R CCG Alderac Entertainment Group _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From kmack at alderac.com Tue Jan 4 14:58:34 2005 From: kmack at alderac.com (Kristy Mack) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 11:58:34 -0800 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Kotei Proposals for 4 Regions Message-ID: This is an extended opportunity for people in the following Regions to submit RFPs to host Koteis in 2005. The deadline for these late applications is January 14, 2005. The Regions are: Region 16 - Hawaii Region 42 - New Zealand Region 43 - Chile Region 44 - Brazil If you have any questions, feel free to email me. Thanks! Kristy -- Kristy Mack AEG Event Coordinator kmack at alderac.com "The difference between villain and hero is three feet in either direction" -----Shinsei----- _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From l5rdemko at tampabay.rr.com Tue Jan 4 14:58:50 2005 From: l5rdemko at tampabay.rr.com (Hirumatsu Dem-kai) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 14:58:50 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Shosuro/Egg Message-ID: <006301c4f297$cf8a7e40$6601a8c0@demko> Is Shosuro's reaction considered an 'entering play effect'? I would think not, since it's worded as an ability, and not an effect. I'm wondering specifically if you can duplicate this reaction when an Egg of P'an Ku comes into play copying Shosuro. Relevant text: Reaction: After Shosuro enters play or overlays: Target a player. Discard all cards from his provinces. Hirumatsu Dem-kai Crab/Lion Clan Psycho Kitty * Tactician * Iuchiban's Personal Assistant a.k.a. Michael Demko Talking Monkey Games http://www.l5rsingles.com eBay ID: l5rsingles _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From diekatzen at earthlink.net Tue Jan 4 16:13:50 2005 From: diekatzen at earthlink.net (diekatzen at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 13:13:50 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 19, Issue 5 Message-ID: <3279917.1104873230295.JavaMail.root@misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Not to be argumentative, but Shosuro technique is essentially worthless against crane forced focus hand denial cheese. Also, since a lot of crane are running smoke and mirrors, even kharmic strike ends up making you discard cards that you need to pursue any strategy that doesn't involve duelling. My personal gripe isn't with Soari. It's with "I empty your hand. I have a million cards. I win." I don't even have the option of just sacrificing my guys to the duel anymore. I have to sacrifice my hand too. I have never had less fun playing L5r than I do currently playing against crane running Kakita, Shattered Focus, and Wear Him Down. It just isn't enjoyable. I enjoy playing against every deck type, but when a crane comes in lately, I just feeling like walking away from the table. And if I pack my deck full of duelling meta, it makes it a lot more difficult to win any other strategy. - Geoff Spady ======================================================================= The environment changes, before you could survive with no consideration given to duel decks, not anymore. Here are some excelent defences against duel decks. - kharmaic strike. - shosure technique. - excellent student. - keen eye. - tsuma dojo. -typo _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From hametsuj at yahoo.com Tue Jan 4 17:10:13 2005 From: hametsuj at yahoo.com (Grant Jeffers) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 14:10:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Tangen sensei/ tsuruchi tech In-Reply-To: <20050104170440.89605.qmail@web41805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050104221013.67371.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> Okay, let me rephrase my question. Why can't Tsuruchi Technique target your own cards? -Grant Robert Van Natter wrote: Redirection must still end up being a legal target. Since you can not target your own cards with TsuTech, you can not redirect it back on your opponent. --- Grant Jeffers wrote: > Why can't you? Tsuruchi Tech isn't opposing > anything. > > -Grant > > Armin Schmid wrote: > hi, > > you can't! > > Rulebook (page 90) > "A ranged attack must target a single card opposing > the card..." > > His cards a not legal targets. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 6:59 PM > Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Tangen sensei/ tsuruchi > tech > > > Hi, > I am a scorpion player with tangen sensei. My > opponent plays tsuruchi > technique > (the battle action) on one of my cards (foll-pers). > Can I redirect that > action to cards controlled by him (foll-pers) in > this battle? Why? > Thanks. > > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > The all-new My Yahoo! ? What will yours do? > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > ===== Hiruma Ayslyn Crab Clan Professional Medler Scout Samurai Hero "We are all just Samurai brother, but when we stand together, we are the Crab" "Pain shared is pain divided; joy shared is joy multiplied" Everything I needed to know, I learned from drinking at Callahan's __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! ? Get yours free! _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From henry.hemming at phreaker.net Tue Jan 4 17:40:36 2005 From: henry.hemming at phreaker.net (Henry Hemming) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 00:40:36 +0200 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 19, Issue 5 References: <3279917.1104873230295.JavaMail.root@misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <006501c4f2ae$6a4ed8c0$1bd68e3e@tanitsu> Kharmaic Strike + Excellent Student + Tsuma Dojo provides you with 12 cards that each allowes you to win a duel. Even better, for 1/2 of those cards you dont have to focus anything from your hand. -typo ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, 04 January, 2005 23:13 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 19, Issue 5 > Not to be argumentative, but Shosuro technique is essentially worthless > against crane forced focus hand denial cheese. Also, since a lot of crane > are running smoke and mirrors, even kharmic strike ends up making you > discard cards that you need to pursue any strategy that doesn't involve > duelling. > > My personal gripe isn't with Soari. It's with "I empty your hand. I have > a million cards. I win." I don't even have the option of just > sacrificing my guys to the duel anymore. I have to sacrifice my hand too. > > I have never had less fun playing L5r than I do currently playing against > crane running Kakita, Shattered Focus, and Wear Him Down. It just isn't > enjoyable. I enjoy playing against every deck type, but when a crane > comes in lately, I just feeling like walking away from the table. > > And if I pack my deck full of duelling meta, it makes it a lot more > difficult to win any other strategy. > > - Geoff Spady > > ======================================================================= > > The environment changes, before you could survive with no consideration > given to duel decks, not anymore. > > Here are some excelent defences against duel decks. > > - kharmaic strike. > - shosure technique. > - excellent student. > - keen eye. > - tsuma dojo. > > -typo > > > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From ninjadebugger at cox.net Tue Jan 4 17:50:53 2005 From: ninjadebugger at cox.net (ninjadebugger) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 16:50:53 -0600 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Tangen sensei/ tsuruchi tech References: <20050104221013.67371.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001201c4f2af$d90441f0$f5a60d44@Skuld> > Okay, let me rephrase my question. Why can't Tsuruchi Technique target your own cards? > > -Grant Because for cards that cannot be in an army, "opposing" is defined as "any card in an army that opposes one or more of your cards in a battle". See also: The reason the ranged attack action on Rain of Death can be used by tacticians not in the battle. Akodo Makoto Lion Clan Cannibal _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From hametsuj at yahoo.com Tue Jan 4 18:20:37 2005 From: hametsuj at yahoo.com (Grant Jeffers) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 15:20:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Tangen sensei/ tsuruchi tech In-Reply-To: <001201c4f2af$d90441f0$f5a60d44@Skuld> Message-ID: <20050104232037.61568.qmail@web60802.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks for the quick answer. Just so I'm sure what your saying; if there was a card similar to Garrison, that allowed you to take actions during a battle without presence, Tsuruchi Technique would have no legal targets. Reason being that nothing in the attacking army would be opposing. Is that right? -Grant ninjadebugger wrote: > Okay, let me rephrase my question. Why can't Tsuruchi Technique target your own cards? > > -Grant Because for cards that cannot be in an army, "opposing" is defined as "any card in an army that opposes one or more of your cards in a battle". See also: The reason the ranged attack action on Rain of Death can be used by tacticians not in the battle. Akodo Makoto Lion Clan Cannibal _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! ? Try it today! _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From kaioto at yahoo.com Tue Jan 4 18:23:15 2005 From: kaioto at yahoo.com (Martin Lund) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 15:23:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Rules for 27 and 28 December [RULES] Message-ID: <20050104232315.13469.qmail@web54107.mail.yahoo.com> Your Rules for Monday, December 27 and Monday, December 28, 2004 * * * * * * * * * * No new rules questions for Monday * * * * * * * * * * From: "Ken Shaw" Date: Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:58 pm Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Shattered Focus and targeting > Does Shattered Focus target the focus cards it discards? By the new > templating rules it doesn't target but since you have to choose the focus > cards to discard it seems like it must target those cards. In particular if > a situation arises where one player has no focus card at the end of the duel > can Shatter Focus's reaction be used? I believe that for cards released with Dawn of the Empire or later sets have the new rule applied to them - that they only target Explicitly. The implicit targeting rules from the Diamond Edition Rulebook do not apply to them. That should be on the Web of Lies Rules Sheet, IIRC. * * * * * * * * * * From: Zen Faulkes Date: Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:27 pm Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Turn of fortune VS keen eye and balance in nothingness > From: "little yojimbo" > Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Turn of fortune VS keen eye and balance in > nothingness > > I suppose this question was answered before, but i didn?t find it in the > archives. It's in there! Under General rules: Duels: "An action creating a challenge must begin resolve before anything can happen "during" the challenge. E.g., the action can be canceled, even if reactions are not allowed during challenges. [JA, 16 December 2001, 2 March 2004]" Zen Faulkes! * Crab Clan Scholar * Unaligned Archivist * * * * * * * * * * From: Darrin Clough Date: Tue Dec 28, 2004 6:37 pm Subject: [L5R-CCG] Question: Who "perfoms" a challenge action? > If my Doji Saori uses her action to have another one > of my duelist personalities issue a challenge to one > of my opponent?s personalities, what personality is > ?performing? the action? > > Diamond Edition Rulebook page 71: > Some actions are performed by cards in play as well as > by a player. To determine > who performs an action, follow the first rule below > that applies: > 1. Actions on a Personality or Follower are performed > by that card. You've provide the answer right there. IT says to follow the first rule that applies. The first rule applies - Saori is a Personality and the Action is on her card. Saori performs the Action, even if the Challenger is a different Duelist, since #1 comes before #4. * * * * * * * * * * From: Tyree Kimber Date: Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:22 pm Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Shosuro Saemon > I am a little confused by how Shosuro Saemon's > reaction works with cards that specifically check for > the presence of followers, (such as Refugees, Peasant > Vengeance, etc.) "If one or more of an action's targets become illegal between when they are chosen and when the action begins to resolve, that action will not affect those targets. This remains true even if they become illegal, then return to being legal. [JA, 15 June 2004; 22 June 2004]" (Accumulated Rulings, "Actions and abilities") Saemon says, "Reaction: After another player?s action targets Saemon: Target a Personality you control. Give him a 1F Ninja Follower token." That happens before the Action begins to resolve effects, so Saemon can cause the effects of such cards to fail against him by using his ability on himself. * * * * * * * * * * That should cover everything from Monday and Tuesday. If I missed your question, please repost it with the flag [RULES] as part of your Clear and Distinct subject line. I'll get back to you at the first opportunity. Thank you, - Marty Lund Deputy Rules Monkey __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From beattyr2003 at earthlink.net Tue Jan 4 18:25:23 2005 From: beattyr2003 at earthlink.net (Robert Beatty) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 18:25:23 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Shosuro/Egg References: <006301c4f297$cf8a7e40$6601a8c0@demko> Message-ID: <00ba01c4f2b4$ab49ebc0$d09379a5@DFDWZP21> >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Hirumatsu Dem-kai" >Is Shosuro's reaction considered an 'entering play effect'? I would think >not, since it's worded as an ability, and not >an effect. I'm wondering >specifically if you can duplicate this reaction when an Egg of P'an Ku >comes into play >copying Shosuro. >Relevant text >Reaction: After Shosuro enters play or overlays: Target a player. Discard >all cards from his provinces. Egg reads as follows. Limited: Target a Personality, including a Unique Personality or one who will not join you. After entering play, this card becomes a copy of that Personality's printed card plus all permanent changes in effect on it. None of the Personality's costs need to be paid and no entering-play effects are produced The Egg still enters play. It doesnt generate effects of the copied personality. You do have the trigger available for Shosuro's reaction and can take it though. HTH Bayushi Daremo Scorpion Clan *Ninja* Samurai Troublemaker Team of One _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From scoutie at home.nl Tue Jan 4 18:41:16 2005 From: scoutie at home.nl (Gino Wout) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 00:41:16 +0100 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Rules bowed challanging Message-ID: <002a01c4f2b6$f239f230$6401a8c0@Gino> I'm hearing all strange things about bowed personalities able to duel if they didn't make the duel. So to make things clear let's make an example: I have Kakita bowed in play. My Saori bows for her duel and targets a duelist, Kakita. Is this legal? or should Kakita be straightenend. Gino _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From kaioto at yahoo.com Tue Jan 4 19:09:46 2005 From: kaioto at yahoo.com (Martin Lund) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 16:09:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Rules for 29 and 30 December 2004 [RULES] Message-ID: <20050105000946.61468.qmail@web54106.mail.yahoo.com> Your Rules for Wednesday, December 29 and Thursday, December 30, 2004 * * * * * * * * * * From: "Andrew Ornatov" Date: Wed Dec 29, 2004 3:58 am Subject: [L5R-CCG] Rules questions. > 1. Does Summon the Dead destroy the personality it's attached to when the > last token is gone? If not, why? Summon the Dead says, "Destroy all Personalities this Spell has targeted if it leaves play or has no tokens." The Spell never targeted the Shugenja you attached it to. The Standard Attachment Action targets the Personality when you attach a card by such means. That's the Rulebook, not the Spell, targeting the Personality. "A card that can be attached to another player's Personalities is not "targeting with a card effect." Attaching a follower to a Personality is a rulebook effect; such cards just extend the number of legal targets. [JA, 5 October 2000]" (Accumulated Rulings, "Attaching") > 2. Can a follower not in the current battle where Endless Horde was played > be used to pay the cost for the action on Endless Horde? If not, why? No. In this case, "opposing" references the Follower bowed to pay the cost, just as Steel on Steel references "opposing" in terms of the Challenger you target in your own Army. "Opposing," in these cases means, "opposing that card." * * * * * * * * * * From: jack-hawksmoor at a... Date: Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:45 am Subject: [L5R-CCG] [RULES] Distant Keep > If I am being attacked, and use the Tactical Battle action on Distant Keep, > targeting one of my own units, may I choose not to show myself my hand so that > my unit will move to the battlefield? Yes. They are all "may" conditions, which allows you to make a yes / no decision, even if it seems a little silly since you are always privy to your own hand's information. * * * * * * * * * * From: "Howard Hooven" Date: Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:22 pm Subject: [L5R-CCG] Rules Question regarding Doji Saori > I got in a bit of a discussion about this issue on The Kobune Port, and > wanted to get an official answer to this. I would like to know whether Doji > Saori is able to target herself and issue her own duel. I understand that > she can target herself, I have no problems with that. My issue is with > being able to issue the challenge herself, and here is why I say this: Saori can target herself. She can target a bowed duelist other than herself too. Saori is the one Performing the Action, since it is on her card. The rule prohibiting bowed Personalities from Performing challenge Actions only checks initially when the Personality begins performing the Action, otherwise cards like Akodo Jusho, Judgment, and others that say, "Bow this Personality to issue a challenge" would be completely useless. Same thing goes for Spells that bow the caster. It is not considered to be a "targeting requirement" or the like, as it applies to non-targeted Actions just as well. It is its own distinct rule. * * * * * * * * * * That should cover everything from Wednesday and Thursday. If I missed your question, please repost it with the flag [RULES] as part of your Clear and Distinct subject line. I'll get back to you at the first opportunity. Thank you, - Marty Lund Deputy Rules Monkey __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Whitecat31 at aol.com Tue Jan 4 20:21:09 2005 From: Whitecat31 at aol.com (Whitecat31 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 20:21:09 EST Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Saori Message-ID: In a message dated 1/4/2005 10:58:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, bh350 at aegbountyhunter.com writes: > > > > >Dragon using Saori is a funny compliment. As for the above, 1 or 2 > >Uncommons and a Promo Card, from your list. All three cards are > +1C. Nizomi's a > >much better option for chi pumping. Are the Dragon running him too? > > Not even close. Saori is brutally strong in HoT Fire with Uso. Reusable > lethal duels? Much better than a chi boost that stops the lethal effect > from your own sensei. > > Rusty Priske > Rusty, USO sensei is only lethal with BATTLE duels. No real worries I believe. WC _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From AGarrett at EA.com Tue Jan 4 20:26:57 2005 From: AGarrett at EA.com (Garrett, Andrew) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 17:26:57 -0800 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Saori Message-ID: <28246E843F3F1F4CA0615FE86744BE4B03B18BDE@eala-mail.la.ad.ea.com> > Rusty, > USO sensei is only lethal with BATTLE duels. No real worries I believe. > That is incorrect. "Challenges issued during a battle by personalities you control destroy the loser as an additional result of the duel." Saori has an open action - the duel can be issued during a battle. Uso applies. Kitsuki Hayato _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From UCIMUNee at aol.com Tue Jan 4 21:11:53 2005 From: UCIMUNee at aol.com (UCIMUNee at aol.com) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 21:11:53 EST Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Saori Message-ID: <1a5.2e0f186c.2f0ca6e9@aol.com> I just wondered if they were borrowing all our duelist mainstays. :) In a message dated 1/4/2005 3:23:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, L5r-ccg-request at alderac.com writes: Message: 5 Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 13:56:16 -0500 From: "Rusty Priske" Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] Re: Saori To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > Dragon using Saori is a funny compliment. As for the above, 1 or 2 > Uncommons and a Promo Card, from your list. All three cards are +1C. Nizomi's a > much better option for chi pumping. Are the Dragon running him too? Not even close. Saori is brutally strong in HoT Fire with Uso. Reusable lethal duels? Much better than a chi boost that stops the lethal effect from your own sensei. Rusty Priske _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From lyversj at bellsouth.net Tue Jan 4 21:33:13 2005 From: lyversj at bellsouth.net (James Lyvers) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 21:33:13 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Who would not use her in a dueling deck. The fact that her ability is open is fantastic. I can think of only one other personality that could issue challenges as an open, and she was unique, as I recall. Of course it was a long time ago and my memory is a little, fuzy... But I was given to understand that the predominant crane deck type at Topaz was Gozoku/Gigi, was I misinformed, or was saori also used in these decks? Akodo James -----Original Message----- From: L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com [mailto:L5r-ccg-bounces at alderac.com]On Behalf Of Kirbdog53 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 9:38 AM To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 In a message dated 1/4/2005 6:23:42 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, mklein at printtime.com writes: <<>> It gets worse. HoT/Fire dueling was bad enough, but now they are using Saori also. Moto Gahrie _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Whitecat31 at aol.com Tue Jan 4 22:20:50 2005 From: Whitecat31 at aol.com (Whitecat31 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 22:20:50 EST Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Saori Message-ID: In a message dated 1/4/2005 5:28:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, AGarrett at EA.com writes: > > > >Rusty, > >USO sensei is only lethal with BATTLE duels. No real worries I > believe. > > > > That is incorrect. > > "Challenges issued during a battle by personalities you control > destroy the loser as an additional result of the duel." > > Saori has an open action - the duel can be issued during a battle. Uso > applies. > > Kitsuki Hayato > I believe I know what an OPEN action is and when it applies. Of course Uso applies during battles. It is what I said. If USO sensei applied for limited or action phase duels, then people would worry. There is "no real worries" from a Dragon deck running it. Unless you want to PUT some Koku into some wagers to prove us wrong. So let me say it another way, and with a little less delicacy and less confusing. If a Dragon player is going to outsource for Saori for the potential of a lethal duel during BATTLE, most of us would happliy enjoy playing that particular Dragon player. Why? Because that player is going to lose most of their games. Saori is not cheap. Saori cost 8 gold non reduced for Dragon and has an honor requirement of 5. Normally, the HOT Dragon clans gold structure, is not going to afford Saori and another decent duelist personality until around turn 5 or 6 and after they have gained honor for something. So if Dragon wants to get excited about Saori and USO sensei, when they have better personalities and senseis to use, I will be laughing all the way to the bank when ever I play that deck design? Does that make more sense about "no real worries"? David Starr Whitecat31 GAB Vice-Admiral in the Golden Koku Team _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From andrew.tate at mchsi.com Tue Jan 4 22:33:38 2005 From: andrew.tate at mchsi.com (Shinjo Dun) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 21:33:38 -0600 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 References: Message-ID: <034f01c4f2d7$58ce6bf0$7a89cf0c@Cyclops> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Lyvers" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 8:33 PM Subject: RE: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 > Who would not use her in a dueling deck. The fact that her ability is > open > is fantastic. I can think of only one other personality that could issue > challenges as an open, and she was unique, as I recall. Of course it was > a > long time ago and my memory is a little, fuzy... > > But I was given to understand that the predominant crane deck type at > Topaz > was Gozoku/Gigi, was I misinformed, or was saori also used in these decks? > > Akodo James > As I recall there was it was split evenly for the most part between KDA and Giji mostly with the Left Hand. The decks I remember running Gozoku weren't Giji though. Shinjo Dun Andy Tate andrew.tate at mchsi.com Team American Idol * Ruben _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From bh350 at aegbountyhunter.com Tue Jan 4 23:28:31 2005 From: bh350 at aegbountyhunter.com (Rusty Priske) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:28:31 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Saori Message-ID: > Rusty, > USO sensei is only lethal with BATTLE duels. No real worries I believe. > Not so. Duels issued during a challenge are lethal. Saori's duel is open so can be issued during a battle. Rusty Priske _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From bh350 at aegbountyhunter.com Tue Jan 4 23:31:47 2005 From: bh350 at aegbountyhunter.com (Rusty Priske) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:31:47 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Saori Message-ID: I'm guessing you haven't faced a Dragon player playing Uso/Saori yet. It is much worse in Dragon than it is in Crane, imo. By playing Saori, Dragon gets a reuseable lethal duel in every battle. In fact, they get up to three once you get more Saoris out. She doesn't even need to be in the battle. (Neither does the duellist, or the opponent...well, one of them does, but not both) That is brutally strong. Rusty Priske _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From lai_lai_boy at hotmail.com Tue Jan 4 23:31:04 2005 From: lai_lai_boy at hotmail.com (Billy Cheng) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 04:31:04 +0000 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Saori Message-ID: From: "Howard Hooven" Date: Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:22 pm Subject: [L5R-CCG] Rules Question regarding Doji Saori >I got in a bit of a discussion about this issue on The Kobune Port, and >wanted to get an official answer to this. I would like to know whether Doji >Saori is able to target herself and issue her own duel. I understand that >she can target herself, I have no problems with that. My issue is with >being able to issue the challenge herself, and here is why I say this: >Saori can target herself. She can target a bowed >duelist other than herself too. >Saori is the one Performing the Action, since it is on >her card. The rule prohibiting bowed Personalities >from Performing challenge Actions only checks >initially when the Personality begins performing the >Action, otherwise cards like Akodo Jusho, Judgment, >and others that say, "Bow this Personality to issue a >challenge" would be completely useless. Same thing >goes for Spells that bow the caster. BC) With all due respect, all the cards you mentioned are not printed under diamond and not under it's rules, and should not be allowed to influence any decisions on this card, >It is not considered to be a "targeting requirement" >or the like, as it applies to non-targeted Actions >just as well. It is its own distinct rule. BC) Here's what I think happens. Saori's ability goes like this: 1) Saori bows to do her ability - names herself. 2) Cost is paid she does the 2 targetting effects - the duelist and the opposing personality 3) Action resolves: Saori challenges the other personality - but she's bowed, bowed people can't issue challenges, action fails. Hence, I believe that while it's legal, it produces no effects. Same thing should apply to Saori targetting bowed duelists to initate challenges. -- Billy Cheng _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From deviancy at msn.com Tue Jan 4 23:50:50 2005 From: deviancy at msn.com (E.X dvnc corp) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 22:50:50 -0600 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Issueing while Bowed? References: Message-ID: Ok, I understand what you mean detailing Saori, etc. however, What about things like Gozoku Pawn, or Temple of the ninth kami that can target bowed personalities. Can I target someone with Gozoku Pawn and make them issue a duel even though they are bowed?? -e- ================================= Saori is the one Performing the Action, since it is on her card. The rule prohibiting bowed Personalities from Performing challenge Actions only checks initially when the Personality begins performing the Action, otherwise cards like Akodo Jusho, Judgment, and others that say, "Bow this Personality to issue a challenge" would be completely useless. Same thing goes for Spells that bow the caster. It is not considered to be a "targeting requirement" or the like, as it applies to non-targeted Actions just as well. It is its own distinct rule. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Whitecat31 at aol.com Wed Jan 5 01:13:32 2005 From: Whitecat31 at aol.com (Whitecat31 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 01:13:32 EST Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Saori Message-ID: <1a4.2ea1608d.2f0cdf8c@aol.com> In a message dated 1/4/2005 8:33:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, bh350 at aegbountyhunter.com writes: > I'm guessing you haven't faced a Dragon player playing Uso/Saori > yet. It is much worse in Dragon than it is in Crane, imo. > If I built crappy decks I might worry.. I don't Asahina Nizomi with Saori is much more of a deterant. A bowed personality in battle is normally as good as dead anyway. > By playing Saori, Dragon gets a reuseable lethal duel in every > battle. In fact, they get up to three once you get more Saoris out. > She doesn't even need to be in the battle. (Neither does the > duellist, or the opponent...well, one of them does, but not both) > > That is brutally strong. I guess its a matter of perspective. If the opponent is inept enough to allow a Dragon player to have 3 out of clan personalities out that cost 8 gold, then chances are they are going to lose. They are going to lose because of bad gold starts or they just do not build good decks. Carry kharmics strikes like most of the quality decks out there and you can nip many dueling decks in the bud with a quality sacrifice. I really feel this is a bogus argument, until Dragon, proves otherwise. WC > Rusty Priske > _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Kirbdog53 at aol.com Wed Jan 5 01:22:45 2005 From: Kirbdog53 at aol.com (Kirbdog53 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 01:22:45 EST Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Saori Message-ID: In a message dated 1/4/2005 10:16:51 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Whitecat31 at aol.com writes: I really feel this is a bogus argument, until Dragon, proves otherwise. Dragon dueling doesn't need Saori to be dominant, and Saori doesn't make Dragon dueling dominant. That's not the argument. The argument is that Saori is downright abusive in a Crane deck (much more so than Tarako in a Unicorn deck). I was merely pointing out that Saori is so strong that even an already dominant deck is willing to use her out of clan to make it's deck even more effective. The idea that Tarako is having a stronger or more abusive influence than Saori at the current time is simply absurd. Moto Gahrie _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From scoutie at home.nl Wed Jan 5 02:22:08 2005 From: scoutie at home.nl (Gino Wout) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 08:22:08 +0100 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Saori References: Message-ID: <005801c4f2f7$44a95b10$6401a8c0@Gino> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Billy Cheng" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 5:31 AM Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Saori > From: "Howard Hooven" > Date: Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:22 pm > Subject: [L5R-CCG] Rules Question regarding Doji > Saori > > >I got in a bit of a discussion about this issue on > The Kobune Port, and > >wanted to get an official answer to this. I would > like to know whether Doji > >Saori is able to target herself and issue her own > duel. I understand that > >she can target herself, I have no problems with > that. My issue is with > >being able to issue the challenge herself, and here > is why I say this: > > >Saori can target herself. She can target a bowed > >duelist other than herself too. > > >Saori is the one Performing the Action, since it is on > >her card. The rule prohibiting bowed Personalities > >from Performing challenge Actions only checks > >initially when the Personality begins performing the > >Action, otherwise cards like Akodo Jusho, Judgment, > >and others that say, "Bow this Personality to issue a > >challenge" would be completely useless. Same thing > >goes for Spells that bow the caster. > > BC) With all due respect, all the cards you mentioned are not printed under > diamond and not under it's rules, and should not be allowed to influence any > decisions on this card, > > >It is not considered to be a "targeting requirement" > >or the like, as it applies to non-targeted Actions > >just as well. It is its own distinct rule. > > BC) Here's what I think happens. Saori's ability goes like this: > 1) Saori bows to do her ability - names herself. > 2) Cost is paid she does the 2 targetting effects - the duelist and the > opposing personality > 3) Action resolves: Saori challenges the other personality - but she's > bowed, bowed people can't issue challenges, action fails. Hence, I believe > that while it's legal, it produces no effects. Let's stop discussing if Saori is able to issue the challange, it has been said multiple times by the rule guys it's legal it works and it produces the effect. > > Same thing should apply to Saori targetting bowed duelists to initate > challenges. That's the question, can i abuse a duelist even more to make him in a lockdown and keep lockdowning other personalities, because he is not performing the duel, if this is the case then please change the rules, this is utterly broken, if not, I cheated my way to a win again :S, but my opponent was also sure it worked > > > -- > Billy Cheng > > > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From Whitecat31 at aol.com Wed Jan 5 02:34:14 2005 From: Whitecat31 at aol.com (Whitecat31 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 02:34:14 EST Subject: [L5R-CCG] Rules for 29 and 30 December 2004 [RULES] Message-ID: <12d.5321c33b.2f0cf276@aol.com> In a message dated 1/4/2005 4:13:30 PM Pacific Standard Time, kaioto at yahoo.com writes: > >1. Does Summon the Dead destroy the personality it's > attached to when the > >last token is gone? If not, why? > > Summon the Dead says, "Destroy all Personalities this > Spell has targeted if it leaves play or has no > tokens." The Spell never targeted the Shugenja you > attached it to. The Standard Attachment Action targets > the Personality when you attach a card by such means. > That's the Rulebook, not the Spell, targeting the > Personality. > > "A card that can be attached to another player's > Personalities is not "targeting with a card effect." > Attaching a follower to a Personality is a rulebook > effect; such cards just extend the number of legal > targets. [JA, 5 October 2000]" (Accumulated Rulings, > "Attaching") Marty, You are quoting a ruling for a card that attaches to ANOTHER players personalities. Where exactly are the rules for the STANDARD ATTACHMENT ACTION you are talking about? Can you give it a break down and show us how a spell or follower or item does not target the personality it is attaching itself to? How do items, that dishonor the personality they attach to, not target the personality? David Starr Whitecat31 GAB Vice-Admiral in the Golden Koku Team _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From usagi_hohiro at yahoo.com Wed Jan 5 03:52:52 2005 From: usagi_hohiro at yahoo.com (Eric Wiener) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 00:52:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 Message-ID: <20050105085252.32339.qmail@web41206.mail.yahoo.com> < Subject: Re: [L5R-CCG] Watch List update for January 1st, 2005 To: L5r-ccg at alderac.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > >EH? Where is SAORI on th list? >> >> Saori has inefficient stats for her cost, doesn't destroy or steal, >> provides a built-in way of ending one of the effects she does >> produce, and only works in combination with a Unique or >multiple >> other cards. She's strong, sure, but not so strong that we feel >she >> has to change to keep the game what we want it to be. > >Only works in combination with Unique or multiple other cards? >We have been told that she can use her ability on herself. Is this >not true? Issuing a challenge from a 3C Personality is certainly LEGAL. Whether it's worth doing is another matter entirely. -- Jeff Alexander Lead Designer, L5R CCG Alderac Entertainment Group>> It is most certainly worth doing. There is no shortage of cards to make such an effort worthwhile. The question as to if it is too powerful is another matter altogether. Eric Wiener Crane Clan Warlord (ret.) --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From lai_lai_boy at hotmail.com Wed Jan 5 03:59:40 2005 From: lai_lai_boy at hotmail.com (Billy Cheng) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 08:59:40 +0000 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re:Saori Message-ID: > >Saori is the one Performing the Action, since it is on > >her card. The rule prohibiting bowed Personalities > >from Performing challenge Actions only checks > >initially when the Personality begins performing the > >Action, otherwise cards like Akodo Jusho, Judgment, > >and others that say, "Bow this Personality to issue a > >challenge" would be completely useless. Same thing > >goes for Spells that bow the caster. > >BC) With all due respect, all the cards you mentioned are not printed under >diamond and not under it's rules, and should not be allowed to influence any >decisions on this card, > > >It is not considered to be a "targeting requirement" > >or the like, as it applies to non-targeted Actions > >just as well. It is its own distinct rule. > >BC) Here's what I think happens. Saori's ability goes like this: > 1) Saori bows to do her ability - names herself. > 2) Cost is paid she does the 2 targetting effects - the duelist and the >opposing personality > 3) Action resolves: Saori challenges the other personality - but she's >bowed, bowed people can't issue challenges, action fails. Hence, I believe >that while it's legal, it produces no effects. >Let's stop discussing if Saori is able to issue the challange, it has been >said multiple times by the rule guys it's legal it works and it produces >the >effect. I stand by my question, Marty based the ruling on cards that predate diamond. Besides all those cards Marty mentioned are "Bow - Issue a challenge" Saori says "Bow, Target then Issue", it's enough of a difference where the cost is applied then you target then have the target issue a challenge. The rule of obvious legality does not apply as she can target another duelist who isn't bowed. -- Billy Cheng > _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From scoutie at home.nl Wed Jan 5 04:37:05 2005 From: scoutie at home.nl (Gino Wout) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 10:37:05 +0100 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re:Saori References: Message-ID: <008501c4f30a$1f7ee950$6401a8c0@Gino> > >Let's stop discussing if Saori is able to issue the challange, it has been > >said multiple times by the rule guys it's legal it works and it produces > >the > >effect. > > I stand by my question, Marty based the ruling on cards that predate > diamond. Besides all those cards Marty mentioned are "Bow - Issue a > challenge" Saori says "Bow, Target then Issue", it's enough of a difference > where the cost is applied then you target then have the target issue a > challenge. The rule of obvious legality does not apply as she can target > another duelist who isn't bowed. > This is just the new template to make things clear, it's not like they changed the game, just reworded it so cost and effect are now 2 clear different things. And if Marty was wrong Jeff would have posted it, don't you think. (still think Marty is wrong about Shattered Focus and Kharmic, but that's more because I want to be able to save my Kakita then any rule i can stand on) > -- > Billy Cheng > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From usagi_hohiro at yahoo.com Wed Jan 5 04:40:23 2005 From: usagi_hohiro at yahoo.com (Eric Wiener) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 01:40:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Saori Message-ID: <20050105094023.80429.qmail@web41203.mail.yahoo.com> <<>Let's stop discussing if Saori is able to issue the challange, it has been >said multiple times by the rule guys it's legal it works and it produces >the >effect. I stand by my question, Marty based the ruling on cards that predate diamond. Besides all those cards Marty mentioned are "Bow - Issue a challenge" Saori says "Bow, Target then Issue", it's enough of a difference where the cost is applied then you target then have the target issue a challenge. The rule of obvious legality does not apply as she can target another duelist who isn't bowed. -- Billy Cheng>> Not every card of the type cited by Marty is pre-diamond. Brutal Confrontation operates under the same cost / effect wording relationship. This horse be beyond dead. Saori is now an undead horse. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From jrepine1 at msn.com Wed Jan 5 04:49:45 2005 From: jrepine1 at msn.com (Jimmy Repine) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 04:49:45 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Saori References: <1a4.2ea1608d.2f0cdf8c@aol.com> Message-ID: > I guess its a matter of perspective. If the opponent is inept enough to > allow a Dragon player to have 3 out of clan personalities out that cost 8 > gold, > then chances are they are going to lose. They are going to lose because > of bad > gold starts or they just do not build good decks. Carry kharmics strikes > like most of the quality decks out there and you can nip many dueling > decks in > the bud with a quality sacrifice. Just because a player brings 3 out of clan personalities that cost 8+ into play doesn't make the other player inept. It just might be a sign of a well built deck. > WC Jimmy Repine Hitomi Yamesh Dragon Clan Tattooed Jedi Master _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From scoutie at home.nl Wed Jan 5 05:48:13 2005 From: scoutie at home.nl (Gino Wout) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 11:48:13 +0100 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Saori References: <20050105094023.80429.qmail@web41203.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001401c4f314$0ea1d980$6401a8c0@Gino> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Wiener" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 10:40 AM Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Saori > <<>Let's stop discussing if Saori is able to issue the challange, it has been > >said multiple times by the rule guys it's legal it works and it produces > >the > >effect. > > I stand by my question, Marty based the ruling on cards that predate > diamond. Besides all those cards Marty mentioned are "Bow - Issue a > challenge" Saori says "Bow, Target then Issue", it's enough of a difference > where the cost is applied then you target then have the target issue a > challenge. The rule of obvious legality does not apply as she can target > another duelist who isn't bowed. The new template made a little change. Previous you would have been right, but with the new template the new form is: Action Type: Costs: Effects. but it doesn't change the way cards are played: Step 1: Declare your action (in this case, Saori's ability) Step 2: Declare targets. Saori and Koto for example. Step 3: Pay costs: Bow Saori. Step 4: Go through with the effect. Thus she can target herself. > > -- > Billy Cheng>> > > Not every card of the type cited by Marty is pre-diamond. Brutal Confrontation operates under the same cost / effect wording relationship. > > This horse be beyond dead. Saori is now an undead horse. > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. > _______________________________________________ > L5r-ccg mailing list > L5r-ccg at alderac.com > http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com > _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From bh350 at aegbountyhunter.com Wed Jan 5 07:12:02 2005 From: bh350 at aegbountyhunter.com (Rusty Priske) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 07:12:02 -0500 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Saori Message-ID: Do you think Soari would be overcosted at 10 gold? I don't. Therefore saying that Dragon shouldn't buy her at 8 is ridiculous. I AM NOT saying that Saori is borken or whatever. What I AM saying is that it is powerful enough that it should be watched...moreso than the Unicorn and even moreso than the Mantis. But that is just my opinion. Rusty Priske _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From GojuKaze at wanadoo.fr Wed Jan 5 07:19:49 2005 From: GojuKaze at wanadoo.fr (Goju Kaze) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 13:19:49 +0100 Subject: [L5R-CCG] [Rules] Multiple Focus / Shamate Pass Message-ID: <001b01c4f320$da347330$0a321d0a@marmotte> Hi Marty 2 block of questions : * Kakita : He must focus once if possible, with 1 to 3 cards. Let's say he chooses to focus (no Smoke, no Shadow's Claw) with 3 cards. Are the 3 focus simultaneous? If yes, how do you react with Smoke on this? Discard at random? If the focused cards are one at a time why? And if one at a time, if your oponent play Smoke on say second card, can you opt to change the third card? Why? * Shamate Pass and Broken Sword of the Lion. I play a Broken sword of the Lion. All the peeps I own (ie the ones in my Dynasty too) are dishonored. I reveal one on Shamate Pass, its honor is still 0 (Printed PH, reduce to 0 because dishonnored + 2 then applay dishonnor again). When he is rehonored, what's its PH? Shamate doesn't say a thing about printed PH, BUT it says pemanently add 2. Thanks Goju Kaze BH #915 _______________________________________________ L5r-ccg mailing list L5r-ccg at alderac.com http://alderac.com/mailman/listinfo/l5r-ccg_alderac.com From iosef at gothic.net.au Wed Jan 5 08:02:30 2005 From: iosef at gothic.net.au (I) Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 00:02:30 +1100 Subject: [L5R-CCG] Re: Saori In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20050105235803.01e09dc8@localhost> At 03:31 PM 5/01/2005, Billy Cheng wrote: BC) With all due respect, all the cards you mentioned are not printed under diamond and not under it's rules, and should not be allowed to influence any decisions on this card, I'm sorry, but this game is "Legend of the 5 Rings". I don't believe I know a game called "Diamond". There are cards that bow to issue a challenge in Diamond environment of L5R. >BC) Here's what I think happens. Saori's ability goes like this: > 1) Saori bows to do her ability - names herself. > 2) Cost is paid she does the 2 targetting effects - the duelist and the >